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> Windows Ce On Zaurus?, wana downgrade?
samot
post Jul 17 2006, 03:52 PM
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Reading the wikipedia article about zaurus I foun a link to a sl-6000 which ships with windows ce.

http://www.sharp-ssp.co.jp/products/kigyou...2003/index.html

It's not that I'm planning to move to windows (I should be nuts!) but I was wondering if it was posible to make win ce run on any zaurus just as on ipaq.
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Da_Blitz
post Jul 17 2006, 11:44 PM
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Yes but i dont think you will find many people willing to help out here, it has been sugested on a couple of other catagories and while some people are intrested no one is willing to put the time, mony and effort into doing it

in some ways it is a shame as it could help to make the platform more popular outside of asia meaning it would be easier to get one (not that they are hard to get)
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Tom61
post Jul 18 2006, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE
in some ways it is a shame as it could help to make the platform more popular outside of asia meaning it would be easier to get one (not that they are hard to get)


Not to mention having Flash 7, and other little closed-source things that run on Windows CE.
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Da_Blitz
post Jul 19 2006, 12:43 AM
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there is an open source flash interpreter (is that the correctterm) but isnt compatible with some things. (mentioned for compleatness i relise its not full up to scratch to replace flash yet)

took me a long time but i did have a http web srever with cgi support and an FTP server with multi user accsess and acounts for those times when i needed to share files on my x30, and i see you can now get a bittorrent client which would make for an inventive way to get files off a device (think pda meetup and swarm over wifi)

there is some basic stuff missing from winCE that they should add in. its fine for the normal pearson to a point (except when they want to transfer a file wirelessly, IR dosent cut it for speed, most only do SIR) but the more advanced people need 20+ peices of software to get any work done, and the problem with CE was not the OS but the apps are generally poorly written, the more you add the more unstable the thing gets (i used to reboot daily)

the focus on CE is also compleattly diffrent, they are trying to make a device that can be operated with just one hand (Windows Mobile 5.0) and althogh some have keyboards they are not fully used by the OS. i belive this will change in the futre however i am a fully keyboard man

[RANT]
i belive that microsoft should have canned the UMPC idea and moved the PDA to a new form factor. this would have allowed them to meet the launch costs to a degree (we all knew the manufacturers were going to charge too much) and meet the battery life. Yes there are some things that cant be done without a bit of creative thinking (like including a 2700G for video) but i belive they should have been adressed

i also belive that pepper pads choice to change to the x86 was a bad idea. (full stop) the X86 is not a good choice for embedded work. yes it is easy to get and yes there is alot of closed source software that will run on it that wont run on somthing like arm or power PC however the x86 has never been what i would call a "power efficent" chip mainly due to some design desciions

what i would have loved to have seen is Sonys UMPC with a quad core ARM11 chip with each core at 600MHz and ith one of ARM's video acceleration units and perhaps a DSP (for the audio inclined). even with all of this turned on and running at full speed you should get double the battery life of thier current offering and more that enogh processing power to pull of MPEG4 with all the extra stuff turned on
[/RANT]
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Ferret-Simpson
post Jul 19 2006, 01:04 AM
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x86 is terrible in general. I hate it. It's fairly universal, in that it does most things adequately, but better to have different chips that are specialised. . . So my systems use:

MIPS for basic video and image work, including 3d modelling. (SGI boxes)
ARM for portable devices and audio work. (Zaurus, RiscPC and Archimedes)
SPARC for Web and Database servers. (Sun Ultra machine)
68k for general purpose desktop, and for wearable devices. (Amigas, Wristwatch)

I only really use x86 for my windows Games computer. (Ok, game. It's FFVII.) My normal desktop PC also runs it, but that's because I already had it before I started migrating to other platforms, and it cost too much to just throw away.
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Da_Blitz
post Jul 19 2006, 03:38 AM
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i am in the middle of a migration to ppc hardware

quad ppc for general use and arm for my servers (to cut back on power)

you would think that a quad core ppc would consume more power than a P4 (single core) but it actually uses less. throgh in alt-vec and you get a very powerfull multimedia machine

i would love to get my hands on one of the new sparcs (the niagras without the FPU) for a server i belive alot of thier choices were the correct ones

i am not familliar with MIPS or 68K (in terms of arcitecture) but i have never liked MIPS, in fact for reasons that are unkown to me i would avoid buying a MIPS bassed board
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Jon_J
post Jul 19 2006, 05:26 AM
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I'd like to just dualboot the core OS, just to be able to use the software and 2 CDs full of maps that came with my Ambicom GPS unit, that is if it would work, since it's listed to work with Pocket PC or Windows Mobile 2003.
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mars
post Jul 19 2006, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Jul 19 2006, 08:43 AM)
[RANT] i also belive that pepper pads choice to change to the x86 was a bad idea. (full stop) the X86 is not a good choice for embedded work. yes it is easy to get and yes there is alot of closed source software that will run on it that wont run on somthing like arm or power PC however the x86 has never been what i would call a "power efficent" chip mainly due to some design desciions [/RANT]
*



Somewht off-topic, but since you brought up the new Pepperpad -- AFAIK, since the new Pepperpad is x86 based there should be a lot of pre-built open source apps available too -- it supposedly uses Fedora Core 4. Also, while the original Pepperpad had a 2700G, I don't think they ever got it working for media playback. The new Pepperpads supposedly are way better for playing encoded videos. The real problem with the Pepperpad, for me, is the size -- either give me something I can pocket (or strap on my belt) or give me a laptop -- the pepperpad is neither. But maybe I'm not the intended audience.
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samot
post Jul 19 2006, 11:47 AM
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This conversation has gone completly off topic but taking into acount that we are a the general discusion forum, who cares?

I read someone talking about PPC. What do you think is apple's big deal for moving to intell x86? Do you really belive apple's claim about consumption? Is there any promise in intel of high performance (as dual g5) with low power usage? Why leaving the RISC architecture? As I know RISC is more power efficient than CISC? What about 64bits? Is core duo 5x faster than G4?

Too many questions maybe... blink.gif
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moi
post Jul 19 2006, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE(samot @ Jul 19 2006, 09:47 PM)
This conversation has gone completly off topic but taking into acount that we are a the general discusion forum, who cares?
*


maybe the ones that like to use the search function of the forums.
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Da_Blitz
post Jul 19 2006, 12:44 PM
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trust me dont start up the RISC vs CISC debate. what we have now is a interpreter for CISC instructions runnig on a RISC[,like] core (ie x86 from what i have heard) not to mention that the terms are "loose" and were defined after the fact not during or before

anyway i lke the PPC because they run very cool and thier simd stuff seems fairly good, im waiting on the hardware as we speak. one of the boards i was looking at was quad core with each core @ 1.7Ghz (faster than what i run on a day to day basis) spread over 2 chips (2 dual core chips) with each chip containing 2 ddr2 drivers (i belive in this set up they would call this quad channel memory however im not 100% sure as to if this is acurte for the chips or if dual channel is slapping the 2 chips data busses together to get 128Bit accsess or if they operate as 2 independent controllers allowing 2 diffrent transactions to 2 diffrent locations in memorey (think raid striping with the data striped at a byte level vs a block or more granular level)

apples reasons are simple, its alot more cost effective for them to build x86, not only that but these days nearly everything is designed for the x86. i have heard some of the ppc guys talking about how some hardware needs the bios to do some stuff (not sure what thogh) and thats the reason why it dosent work on the ppc, beacuse the manufacturers burn the boot rom as x86 only on the device and it wont work on anything else (thats the jist of it. i belive there is more that i dont yet understand

intel have done a great job with thier new core 2 duo chips and i would love to see a benchmark between the two of them on level footing (ie simd optimised routines for both of them) but i feel personlly that the x86 have a couple of things that should have been removed along time ago.

anyone can make a risc use more power than a CISC, it all depends on your skills as a designer

btw you may be able to run wince stuff on the Z, with qemu. if you could patch it to emulate a common pocket pc then you could pull the firmware out fo the pda and execute it in a virtual envirement. not pretty but it works. your other option is to wait for opentomtom (i wonder how thats going)

oh well keep the questions comming, i have to keep up my 2 posts per day if i want to hit 1000 posts anytime soon (and boost me up from aprox 20th postion on number of posts wink.gif)
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D4rk 4p113
post Feb 20 2007, 06:51 PM
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ok guys i'm a macintosh user and don't like x86 too ehhehe

but, about Windows CE or Windows mobile in zaurus are possible?

thanks
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BarryW
post Feb 20 2007, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE(D4rk 4p113 @ Feb 20 2007, 05:51 PM)
ok guys i'm a macintosh user and don't like x86 too ehhehe

but, about Windows CE or Windows mobile in zaurus are possible?

thanks
*



You'll have to order one with ce already installed. Won't be english though.
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cal
post Feb 20 2007, 07:19 PM
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Could the wince rom be flashed on a 6000 that originally shipped with linux?
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speculatrix
post Feb 22 2007, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE(cal @ Feb 21 2007, 04:19 AM)
Could the wince rom be flashed on a 6000 that originally shipped with linux?
*


possible. the flora-mx-ie thingy, which is a 6000W with extra ram/rom didn't seem to have the D+M or OK prompt, which meant you couldn't flash it from WinCE to Linux...

so, I am guessing that the power-on-self-test+initial loader built into the bootstrap part of flash is quite different in the flora or wince version of the 6000.

nevertheless, it'd be very interesting to be able to switch between the two OSs... if you find a copy of a flash image for the 6000-wince model, do shout!
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