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> Alternative Design For The Ppz, To solve all issues.
BarryW
post Nov 2 2006, 08:12 PM
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QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Nov 2 2006, 06:33 PM)
it also assists in heat managment. at the moment if the cpu and the battery were in the same case the battery would be over the top of ethier the bluetooth chip, power supply, cpu or wifi chip. these all generate heat. heat causes lithium battries to explode (lithium bieng the second most volitile element known to man after potassium, actually i wonder how much power you could get from a potasium battery wink.gif)


*



Depends, you want to use it for electricity or for opening a locked door?? biggrin.gif
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Da_Blitz
post Nov 3 2006, 12:31 AM
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little from coulmn A and a little from coulmn B wink.gif

actually i would love to get my hands on it just for the chassenge it presents these days, its one of those things on those "watch lists"

never mind that just about every high school i have heard of stocks about 2-3KG of the stuff stored in oil to keep it from reacting (the water in the air is enough to set it off) or that the high school i went to had radio active materials in lead containers they used to show to kids about 15 years ago when it was considred a learning experince.

i may have done physics instead of chemistry but its amazing the detials about nuclear weopnary that put in books from 20 years ago. including the refinment teqniques and structures to increse the explosion strength

yes, i was a very board at high school but knew how to entertain myself with the little they actually teach you.
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BarryW
post Nov 3 2006, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Nov 2 2006, 11:31 PM)
little from coulmn A and a little from coulmn B wink.gif

actually i would love to get my hands on it just for the chassenge it presents these days, its one of those things on those "watch lists"

never mind that just about every high school i have heard of stocks about 2-3KG of the stuff stored in oil to keep it from reacting (the water in the air is enough to set it off) or that the high school i went to had radio active materials in lead containers they used to show to kids about 15 years ago when it was considred a learning experince.

i may have done physics instead of chemistry but its amazing the detials about nuclear weopnary that put in books from 20 years ago. including the refinment teqniques and structures to increse the explosion strength

yes, i was a very board at high school but knew how to entertain myself with the little they actually teach you.
*



We found a 5 pound block of sodium metal in an oil soaked box. We kept about a pound of it and "disposed" of the rest.
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Ferret-Simpson
post Nov 3 2006, 03:39 AM
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Sounds like fun. You never worked at Gillingham, did you?
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stampsm
post Nov 3 2006, 04:14 AM
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QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Nov 2 2006, 03:46 AM)
actually thats the thing i find funny, i say move the sound card around in the device and you all see at as not having a sound card in the device

by device i mean the keyboard/battery and cpu combo, i take it that you mean the cpu board as "the device"

it simmilar to pci slots, i am saying "make it a plugin card" over usb. what if there were modules in the keyboard that once the keyboard has been opened could be slotted in, you want better sound? then slap in a sound card and remove the blank out plate on the edge of the case same for a usb hub if you want more ports, just remove the blankout plate and insert a USB hub module

give it an edge connector with power, USB, i2c and perhaps another option or two and it wouldnt be to hard to make a PDA that has the IO you want.

at a minimum i think that bluetooth would be on the cpu card (screen) and perhaps go to wifi on USB in the keyboard and make it an option? the advantage is you can have diffrent types of sound cards or multiple ones and linux will work with them.

i hate to think what it would do to the thickness of the device but ill work that out once i have found a screen (5" seems to be the way to go they are easier to get a hold of)
*


if you are looking for a screen one i was looking at before seems to have made it's way to distributors now

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=19805&st=60#

i looked a week or so ago and pricing for 100 quantity from a distributor runs about 128 USD for the 3.7 inch one and the 4" one i have not seen any prices on it but i would expect it to be just slightly more. if you go for a 5" screen it may cause isues with size. for most pda's there is problem if it can't fit in a pocket while it has a case on it you don't want to carry it around. the zaurus are already bigger than alot of other pda's with the sl-600 being i think 4" and the c series 3.7 inch displays. at 5" it may fail the "fits in pocket" test at that point you might as well get a small laptop that has more power if you have to carry it in a bag/backpack anyway
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chiark
post Nov 3 2006, 10:09 AM
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I am really, really liking the suggestion on form factor Da Blitz.

What can we do to make this happen biggrin.gif ?
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Da_Blitz
post Nov 4 2006, 04:08 AM
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i am assuming a 5" in 16:9 would be about the same sie as the screen cointainer for the c3000 basically i want the thiniest posible boarder around the screen i can get (basically the screen case will nearly be pushed up against the screen, the only reason it wont is to reduce mechanical strain on the screen as a light tap to the side could facture the glass)

oh and none of that "soft button" stuff on the screen like the c3000 has, do it in software where it belongs wink.gif

well i need some ideas on software, are thier others who can fiddle with hardware that want to help as they may not have a copy of the program i want to use. not to mention i need a comercial copy of the software i want to use sad.gif and you know what CAD software is like

if you know about free alternatives that have an auto routor and can do up to 6-8 layers with no problems then i would use it with no hesitation. my plan at the moment consists of see if one of the campanies wants to sponser my project by giving me the product for free under a "no profit" licsence (more on that latter) in return for advertising revenue (i belive that getting this on digg and slashdot would qualify as well as a big stikcker saying "made with x" on the forunt page) or look at other alternatives

in a couple of weeks i should have some more info on a sponser.
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Ragnorok
post Dec 6 2006, 06:16 PM
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- I'm not against a two-piece design, the discussion so far seems to present it well. I'm wondering about the hinge, and the connector((s) there.

- Are there multiple connectors? It seems there could be more than one along the 'back' edge, which may or may not be a good thng. I think with a removable keyboard-I/O-battery module there is little need for rotation, so more than one connector could esaily be done. Perhaps this was said/implied somewhere and I missed it? I shudder at the idea of shoving bunches of I/O down one USB connector! (bemused grin)

- I'm just not grokking 'usb audio'. That sounds like no sound to me, which is a no-go. Perhaps it's in the 'backpack' along with the keyboard, which is fine with me, as I don't intend to ever use a PP as a slate ... it will always have the keyboard unit. I don't mind BT sound, but definitely have zero use for it as the only sound-generating capability. Last I read was 5.1? I think that's way overkill (grin) but do want some way for a PP to make an acceptable noise as-is. Or maybe this whole audo thing relates to the headphones, and not speakers on the device? If so, apologies.
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stampsm
post Dec 6 2006, 11:01 PM
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you could do what motorola does with some of thier phones. they have the usb port and the headphone as the same jack so save room. the only issue is if you want to use headphones you are taking up one of the usb ports, but if we got 2 usb ports this would not be an issue much. plus the headphone jack that conventional audio cords use takes up alot more cm^3 than a mini usb connector does so internally it will comsume less space. you can always get adapters to use regular headphones if you want also. another good part is the usb/audio connector is much thinner so you can put the audio plug in the same part as the screen so you can save the naturally thicker part of the pda for components that have to have more thickness.
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Da_Blitz
post Dec 7 2006, 12:18 AM
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i guess the usb audio idea is really somthing that popped into my head as a "no direvr writeiing" solution, the audio capabilities and routing on the iMX.3 are very nice (very very nice, you can redirect streams betwean inputs and outputs with no cpu overhead, you attach the devices and route the audio between them as required) however wrieing a driver would be a challenge

that said the zune uses the same chip so when we se a linux on zune port we would get free drivers smile.gif

the headphone usb thing seems to be a slightly modified connector as weell, i personnaly wonder if therre is a mini a & B version otherwise we would need a seperate poort for host and client. i do however like the idea

now for things i am backing down on sad.gif
7.1 Sound. i think that its better served as a usb device externnally, thats not to say i wont give it a go. it just means i have a fall back plan wink.gif
joystick/roller ball. basically depends on the thickness oof the keyboaard and layout. however i think the new design has enough flexability that there may be better ways to inculed it (external module or just use a sixaxis controller (pS3 contreller) over bluetooth)
camera: as this is more a serios device i dont really see a problem in dropping it

there is a reason for leaving the pads for an image sensor in however, mainlly it allows for a high speed ADC to be connected (up to 50Mhz, an posiblly 24bit) so if anything comes of that GPS in software stuff i have been keeping me eye on that would be the way to do it. or if someone needs an image sensor or whatever reason
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stampsm
post Dec 7 2006, 12:29 AM
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yep i am of the design mind that if you do not use the pin's/ports please at least have some sort of connector/pads on the board so hackers can have thier fun.

i am starting to get some good ideas for a small bluetooth mouse with that small trackball i posted about 2 small buttons and possibly an accelerometer for tilt detection built in. power it off a small lithium rechargable battery that charges by plugging into a usb port and you do not have to worry about building it into the main design. smile.gif

you could design the whole mouse so you could control it with just one hand if you wanted to and hold the pocket penguin with the other hand.
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Da_Blitz
post Dec 7 2006, 02:11 AM
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i think by the time i finshed this it will be a range of products rather than the one thing, each solving a small part of a big problem, how do i interact with my comptuer quuicklly while staying portable and lightweight/small

the watch hada tilt sensor in it but i dont think we would have the thickness for the trackball, a smalll joystick perhaps buut thats about it

lets hear the ideas, it haas to be somthing i can use without a surface (tilt sensor/accelerometer. so the watch hass it partially covered but a seperate mouse designed for this type of thing is apeealing
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Da_Blitz
post Dec 7 2006, 02:24 AM
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breaking this up into 2 posts because i feel theree is a natural division

one problem with the keyboard bieng a backpack/connnector idea is that iit means the CPu gets pushed into the backof the screen, while not a huge problem it does limit howe much i can put around the eedges without making it to bulky

remeber i want to make it as thin as possiblle (the screen) and so i recomennded implemnting most stuff on the keyboard instead. well the other option is a thick screen and thin keyboard it affects thhe wieght ballence when using it like a mini laptop on a flat surface but thier are ways around it

also i people have mentioned they dont particuly llike the battery as a backpack idea and i am not sure why, it could be to do with the fact that many people see it as bieng implemented in a simmilar way to the old ipaqs, however when i mean backpack i mean samthing that sits flush with the back, cennected by the edge connector. once again its a pictures thing but it does make hot swapping battries a whole lot easier as well as offering a wide range of sizes

on second thoghts it might have been the idea of moving the audio into the battery pack. hard to tell but it comes domn to the screen thickness issues which i wonnt know too much about until i locate a lcd screen supplier i am happy with.

the edge connector is a trick one,do i just use mini usb or do i use a high denisty connector and chhuck other stuff on it as well. its a hard call i am leaning towards the usb connector because it then means you can use it without a backpack for somthing usefull (syncing, remote display) but perhaps have 2 usb connectors or a usb and a high density connector, i guess it all depends on how long i make this hinge. at the moment its looking to be wider than the Z without the screen rotation part, so any screen rotation ppart would have to be moulded into the accsesory end (not that big a loss in my opinion, if need be pull the back pack off and install the wrong way around wink.gif

all this talking thogh dosent add up to much, i need pictures. i just cant explain it very well and i think it relise a bit too much on people imagination. must look into that wink.gif

backpacks, whatt can i say about these they are not really "backpacks" in a traditonal scense but rather usb devices that are moulded to fit the PP case (not like on the ipaqs where it wrapped around the case but rather somthing that locks in to the swivel edge connector (possible exception may be the "battery only" pack however i could have indeentations on the bottom to make locking flat against the case easier aand more secure rather than wrap around the side and ruin the styling wink.gif)
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stampsm
post Dec 7 2006, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(stampsm @ Dec 7 2006, 12:29 AM)
yep i am of the design mind that if you do not use the pin's/ports please at least have some sort of connector/pads on the board so hackers can have thier fun.

i am starting to get some good ideas for a small bluetooth mouse with that small trackball i posted about 2 small buttons and possibly an accelerometer for tilt detection built in. power it off a small lithium rechargable battery that charges by plugging into a usb port and you do not have to worry about building it into the main design. smile.gif

you could design the whole mouse so you could control it with just one hand if you wanted to and hold the pocket penguin with the other hand.
*



here is a quick rough (bout 3 minutes worth of time) 3d model of what i was thinking for a mouse.

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stampsm
post Dec 7 2006, 11:38 PM
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a range of products actually sounds like a much better idea. if you had lets say for instance 6 different products designed to work seamlessly together and the user can pick out of them what they needed for thier particular solution it would work out good.

a quick solution for some people might for example be the basic main unit, a cell phone module(cell phone module interfaced through the usb expansion or bluetooth anyone? ) the control watch(add time plus bluetooth connectivityfor caller id on it), and a standard bluetooth headset.
plus you have the bluetooth controller sitting in the other pocket when you have to sit down for some serious work.
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