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> The Sharp Dev board is not really back
tamarian
post Jun 21 2004, 05:30 PM
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I was surprised to see the dev board is now back online.

From what I've read there, it only to support "enterprise" users, but us lowly individuals are still welcome smile.gif

This "enterprise" mentality is so backward, I just can't understand how they could miss the open source concepts, that it is individulas, who have an "itch" who make things happen, and develop software to meet their needs.

Sharp is using GNU and Linux. GNU and Linux were not not developed for the "enterprise", but because individuals started developing software for their own needs, Linux became very useful, and profitable, for the "enterprise".

Sharp is trying to do this in a backwards fashion. They want to start selling only to "enterprise", for obvious "volume" considerations. But they clearly missed the point, that it never worked that way for open source communities. Why should it work now?

They're basically digging their own graves. "Enterprise" customers will not use a propriteary platform made of open source components, they can just use existing proprietary formats such WinCE or others. There's no point in using Zaurus for the "enterprise", unless the Zaurus platform becames very popular on it's own first. And this cannot happen without a thriving community.

Anyway, this is just my rant, and I'm glad the ZUG forum is picking up Sharp's slack and making a place for the Zaurus community.
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tamarian
post Jun 21 2004, 05:35 PM
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Sorry, this was intended for the the "general" forum. Would a moderator please move it there? 8)
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Guest_Guest_zaurusgeek_*
post Jun 22 2004, 11:47 AM
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I can sympathize with what you're saying, but I think their business model is...well...sharp. Rather than compete with PocketPCs and Treos, go after a niche that requires little overhead and support. As a manufacturer of "Enterprise" applications, the Zaurus now appeals to me because I can get better support and I know Sharp isn't going to obsolete too fast if they have these kinds of contracts in place.

I don't think the new site actually prohibits end users from doing anything, they've just targeted it differently and are relying on this board as an end user's group. Makes sense to me.
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tamarian
post Jun 22 2004, 01:02 PM
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QUOTE
I can sympathize with what you're saying, but I think their business model is...well...sharp. Rather than compete with PocketPCs and Treos, go after a niche that requires little overhead and support.  As a manufacturer of "Enterprise" applications, the Zaurus now appeals to me because I can get better support and I know Sharp isn't going to obsolete too fast if they have these kinds of contracts in place.


The problem is that it doesn't have to be "either/or", and in fact it's counter productive.

Enterprise users should be worried about Linux products that does not have the support of open source developers, since, from the experience of open source projects, it's an indicator of short term support, and leads to questionable viability.

Zaurus is becoming quite unique, in that it's a company that tries hard to limit the sales of it's products, and many of us here had to work hard to import our C7xx's.

QUOTE
I don't think the new site actually prohibits end users from doing anything, they've just targeted it differently and are relying on this board as an end user's group.  Makes sense to me.


As a matter of fact, they'd probably love it if we all came back, and helped them revive their dead forums, from which they shut down on us for months, without any notice.

They'd be quite delusional thinking open source developers would flock to develop free software for them, if they're focusing on the proprietary products, and focus only on the closed source "enterprise" model.

From my experience, they wouldn't bother reading your email if you don't preface it by indications that this is for an "enterprise business opportunity". But once one of their enterprise customers become interested in a feature, they'll come after you asking whatever happened with that "XYZ" project you were talking about..... or how far are you into implementing this or that, and then "how can we help you speed things up...." when they were being elusive when they saw no dollar signs.

Open source works both ways, give and take, use and share... Sharp wants to take, and never give. That's fine for proprietary mode. But it doesn't work with open source projects.
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amrein
post Jun 23 2004, 05:35 AM
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Open Source is like a new language. Most companies don't know how to speak it. A few learn it and will open their market to this new world. Very experienced companies like IBM HP/Compaq Intel or Texas Intrument know how to come in (they was there before most of us). Others have difficulties.

In all case, all is about money/sell/share/survive. This is just a new market, a market where at present you get your Zaurus, your PC, your Internet connection and your Linux distribution and...

Sharp is in leaning curve. I won't say that they know how to deal with us but they are learning (after first slap).
Sharp is a manufacturer. They are only used to TV/DVD/Recorders/Componants/... Hardware in general. Have you ever seen a big software box with Sharp logo in front? No! Have you ever seen gorgeous modification in Sharp Qtopia 1.5.4? No! Should we wait for them to transform Qtopia or to release the 1.5.4 source code? No! Can we espect them to release new amazing device with a powerful open source operating system for PDA if one was available (and finished)? Of course Yes! Why shouldn't they?

What is amazing is the fact that they released the Zaurus. Now the fact that they don't know how to deal with a the open source software community is not a surprise.
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roguetrooper
post Jun 23 2004, 12:12 PM
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"What is amazing is the fact that they released the Zaurus. Now the fact that they don't know how to deal with a the open source software community is not a surprise."

Agreed. Whatever we think of Sharp as a company, they had the foresight and courage to launch the Linux based Zaurus.

It was an amazing strategic move - I just hope like the rest of us they realize what an opportunity they (still) have.

A little bit of effort on their part could reap vast returns for them in profits longer term.
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Teletubbie
post Jun 23 2004, 01:18 PM
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Dear amrein,

I would like to qoute your Statement sometimes:
QUOTE
Open Source is like a new language. Most companies don't know how to speak it. A few learn it and will open their market to this new world.

How do you want to be quotes, eg. as amrein?
smile.gif
It is maybe something very fundamental happening out there in the economics and you point it out.
Thx,
Sam
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roguetrooper
post Jun 29 2004, 12:03 AM
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Agreed. the paradigm shift to Open Source is something that must keep Gates and Ballmer awake at night, since '98 and the leaked halloween documents we know M$ is seriously worried about Linux and Open Source Software.

Getting Linux into the embedded market (where it is inherently more suitable than the Pocket PC crap) is crucial for the long term sucess of Linux.... from Toaster Controller to Enterprise Clusters...

Having worked with Microsoft at their UK headquarters back in 1999/2000, I can tell you they are the most arrogant pig-headed gates-evangelical know-it-alls I've ever met... the only good thing about the place was the canteen (food was great!)
Technically they were weak... but their skills in b*llsh*tt*ng were outstanding. One came away thinking Win2K was going to rule the world (well I didn't think that smile.gif )

What we need next is for SUN to ditch Solaris, IBM AIX, HP HP/UX and the like and adopt Linux 100% - their problem is (well at least SUN's) is that once they ditch Solaris (and the associated costly support/service/upgrade contracts) all they are left with is the SPARC architecture... and like it or not x86 I think sadly enough won that war some time ago (look where Alpha went/is going...) - their revenue streams would drop like a brick.

However there is an argument for SPARC (at least in terms of Solaris) I mean look where x86 Solaris went.... nowhere... fast... but I diverge... ultimately x86 rules the client world. and soon I expect the Server. Linux is more than ready to start capitalising big-time on this and start winning former large Microsoft accounts.

One of the biggest issues is of course support. Whereas a Monkey could operate Windows 2K/2003 as an administrator, Linux requires a degree of intelligence - and their will always be shortage of such people - anyone can click on a clickbox selection or perhaps even edit an /etc/hosts file (another M$ ripoff from UNIX) but how many people know how to enhance rc.d, secure /etc/inetd.conf or tune kernels to environments? And these are basic admin skills in the UNIX world.

I was raised in a GNU world, along with countless others out there. Our time will come.
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coder101
post Jun 29 2004, 03:57 AM
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QUOTE(amrein @ Jun 23 2004, 11:35 PM)
Have you ever seen gorgeous modification in Sharp Qtopia 1.5.4? No! Should we wait for them to transform Qtopia or to release the 1.5.4 source code? No!

Didn't the user lpotter say there will be a new Qtopia release in November or December?
They may fit in well with the C960 rumour to.
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amrein
post Jun 29 2004, 11:01 AM
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lpotter is part of Trolltech. He is also brake-light for Opie rolleyes.gif .

Yes, you should be able to find several annonce of Qtopia 1.7 for Zaurus and iPaq on IRC and forums... at least since november 2003.

Here is his favorit sentense that most people should remember: "Coming soon! Stay tuned!"
(hoping that it is not copyrighted)

Hehe. lpotter, are you back from vacation?
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tumnus
post Jul 1 2004, 12:16 PM
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Anyone noticed the documentation for Qtopia 2.0 has appeared already?

http://doc.trolltech.com/qtopia2.0/html/index.html

As far as I know Qtopia 1.7 is still officially the latest version (both commercially and open source)
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amrein
post Jul 1 2004, 02:46 PM
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Qtopia phone edition is also available.
Qtopia 2 is certainly available too but as a beta software.

Screenshot of Qtopia phone edition doesn't make me salivate to much. Hoping that 2.0 will be interesting but... if they do the same kind of work that MS does on pocket PC...
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tblumer
post Jul 1 2004, 04:22 PM
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Speaking of the dev board being "not really back," some may have noticed an outage this afternoon (July 1). The colo center had a denial-of-service attack on another customer which exposed an unpatched bug in their Cisco IOS router. Oops. Just keeping you all informed. Service is available again now.
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