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> Release Included Packages, light or heavy?
desertrat
post Sep 10 2007, 08:45 PM
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I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
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adf
post Sep 10 2007, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 10 2007, 08:45 PM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*

I, on the other hand, would like to see some heavies-- like a wyswyg hml editor and other stuff that helps with quick page and site management when relying on the Z. the mozlla we have will do, but a kompozer would be better. Of course, my basic setup atm includes the full kde 3.5 ipks (mainly for konqueror)...

Re the vi/nano thing. years of Z use have seriously biased me towards nano--I feel lost when I install desktop distro that doesn't have it by default (a version of vector linux, if you were wondering)
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InSearchOf
post Sep 11 2007, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
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ernestus
post Sep 11 2007, 05:56 AM
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Too much work for InSearchOf, isn't it?
I had a look at the roadmap:
http://www.pdaxrom.org/?q=node/228
And basically everything is made by InSearchOf, I hope he survives!

Cheers
E
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Meanie
post Sep 11 2007, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
*



maybe later when I have more time. i think the ideas employed in my zbackup solution is quite good and should also be added into this new backup/restore tool... but sorry, i am rather busy at the moment...
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Capn_Fish
post Sep 11 2007, 05:28 PM
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I'm all for trying a Gecko-based browser with a light interface (like Galeon). It loads much faster than FF on my machines.

EDIT: InSearchOf: Could we replace Firefox with such an app in the build system?
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InSearchOf
post Sep 11 2007, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Sep 11 2007, 09:28 PM)
I'm all for trying a Gecko-based browser with a light interface (like Galeon). It loads much faster than FF on my machines.

EDIT: InSearchOf: Could we replace Firefox with such an app in the build system?
*


It is always an option... I was looking to stablize FF as much as possible especially since anunakin is working on the "Flash" peice... but we will see what we can do...

Late
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InSearchOf
post Sep 11 2007, 06:57 PM
Post #23





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QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 11 2007, 08:56 PM)
QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
*



maybe later when I have more time. i think the ideas employed in my zbackup solution is quite good and should also be added into this new backup/restore tool... but sorry, i am rather busy at the moment...
*



One difference between your Z backup tool and the one I've implemented where is it executed from.
This will be housed under the Emergency image. It will be an all in 1 package for installing, backing up and restoring.
Install will be the same as normal but call done in the background.
Backup will be a dd export of the system
Restore dd import

Simple enough :-)

Late
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HoloVector
post Sep 11 2007, 07:36 PM
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I think the new pdaXrom version should leverage the xfe file manager as much as possible since it is really is suite of very good helper applications with an excellent graphical file manager. I use the xfw to edit my config files, the xfi to view my graphics files. I used to use LeafPad and GQView for those tasks until Meanie introduced me to xfe in pdaXii13. Having these xf apps a right click away in the file manager is a real productivity booster for me. biggrin.gif

I also believe that xarchiver should be included in the base image since that is another one my gotta have tools. smile.gif
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Meanie
post Sep 11 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 12 2007, 12:57 PM)
QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 11 2007, 08:56 PM)
QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
*



maybe later when I have more time. i think the ideas employed in my zbackup solution is quite good and should also be added into this new backup/restore tool... but sorry, i am rather busy at the moment...
*



One difference between your Z backup tool and the one I've implemented where is it executed from.
This will be housed under the Emergency image. It will be an all in 1 package for installing, backing up and restoring.
Install will be the same as normal but call done in the background.
Backup will be a dd export of the system
Restore dd import

Simple enough :-)

Late
*



it is true that it is quite simple, and simple is generally good. however, there are a few downsides that i would like to point out. you would need to boot into the emergency system in order to do backup. this is similar to the current nand backup, but imho a bit of an inconvenience and since humans are generally lazy, it would probably lead to people seldomly doing a backup except maybe just prior to a major upgrade or flashing to another distro.
the other drawback which i consider more of an issue is that using dd to backup the whole system can be a great overhead. it would not be a problem for purely nand based systems since there only is a total of 128MB, however, with the c3x00 series where there also is a harddisk (microdrive) which is 4/6GB in size, doing a dd might not be such a great idea. sure, you could partition up the microdrive into several smaller partition and only backup the system partition where packages are installed to. remember the c3000 only has 16mb of nand so it has to have its system on the microdrive, whereas the other c3x00 models have the option to either have the system files on nand or the microdrive.
not trying to beat up on you but you did sort of promise support for c3000 so issues for the c3000 need therefore also be considered.
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InSearchOf
post Sep 12 2007, 04:13 AM
Post #26





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QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 12 2007, 12:03 AM)
It is true that it is quite simple, and simple is generally good. however, there are a few downsides that i would like to point out. you would need to boot into the emergency system in order to do backup. this is similar to the current nand backup, but imho a bit of an inconvenience and since humans are generally lazy, it would probably lead to people seldomly doing a backup except maybe just prior to a major upgrade or flashing to another distro.
the other drawback which i consider more of an issue is that using dd to backup the whole system can be a great overhead. it would not be a problem for purely nand based systems since there only is a total of 128MB, however, with the c3x00 series where there also is a harddisk (microdrive) which is 4/6GB in size, doing a dd might not be such a great idea. sure, you could partition up the microdrive into several smaller partition and only backup the system partition where packages are installed to. remember the c3000 only has 16mb of nand so it has to have its system on the microdrive, whereas the other c3x00 models have the option to either have the system files on nand or the microdrive.
not trying to beat up on you but you did sort of promise support for c3000 so issues for the c3000 need therefore also be considered.
*


I've thought about this... briefly... but I have. Well, it is weighed on if I decide to make the system partition static to 128mb or if I allow user customization. Standardizing to 128mb give or take (in most cases give :-D ) will keep the backup and restore times pretty much standard across the board and most users have a 256mb-up usbflash,sd, or cf card to drop there backup on to.

But that is why 3000 is still in the think tank :-) and C3000 doesnt have a estimated completion date. I have a lot more ahead of me before the one gets a solid push...

Thanks Meanie, and I'm going to head your assistance heading up this project due to me not having a c3000

Late

EDIT: and regards to the whole Booting into emergency image to do a back up.

I'm am all about Byte by Byte backups, I not to keen to the tar'ing a filesystem and an active one at that... *quivers*
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scoutme
post Sep 14 2007, 11:27 AM
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best solution IMHO would be a lite but complete package plus some well designed squashfs images (not too big - not everyone has a microdrive). Those squashfs images should be loaded by default if present in the right position; the auto-mounting feature should be in a package included by default in the lite distro. My 2 cents smile.gif
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desertrat
post Sep 14 2007, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 12 2007, 12:13 PM)
I'm am all about Byte by Byte backups, I not to keen to the tar'ing a filesystem and an active one at that... *quivers*

Actually it's good that there are (or will be) 2 backup methods. Meanie's could be used for "everyday" backup operations, whilst yours would be like ghost/partimage for making a verbatim backup of the complete system.
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adf
post Sep 14 2007, 11:25 PM
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any chance it will be able to restore from or backup to a usb drive?
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InSearchOf
post Sep 15 2007, 06:32 AM
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QUOTE(adf @ Sep 15 2007, 03:25 AM)
any chance it will be able to restore from or backup to a usb drive?
*


Yes, usb is already functional under the emergency images... I actual install all my roms from usb :-)

Late
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