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> Pdaxrom 2.0 Included Apps
Capn_Fish
post Jul 8 2008, 06:31 PM
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I'm making the mostly official and potentially mostly final list of apps to include in the pdaXrom 2.0 release image. Since we're trying to listen to the community more for this release, I'm asking for feedback, changes, etc. Here's the list I came up with, feel free to post comments, ideas, additions, changes, things to cut, etc. below. I'll keep this post updated with the latest list and when it was last changed.

CODE
Internet/Communication:
-Epiphany-webkit (FF is too slow and may not build, Webkit seems perfectly fast/stable/functional to me, up for debate)
-Sylpheed (in the interest of speed, was Claws-Mail)
-Pidgin (kept because it seems light enough for the Z, thouroughly tested, easy to use)

Filesystem/editors:
-Nano
-Leafpad
-PCManFM / ROX (Up for debate)
{-GPartED*,**} (unnecessary, heavy)

System:
-Wi-Fi Radar**
-Package Manager (placeholder, potential to change package management system)

WM/GUI:
{-Fluxbox***}
-LXDE (Current line of thinking by me/InSearchOf)

Media:
-Quasar
-MPlayer
-GPicView
-AlsamixerGUI**
{-scrot*}
-GSnapShot (more features than scrot, GUI)
-Audio Codecs:
--Ogg/vorbis
--FLAC
--MP3
--WAV
--?
-EPDFView**
{-MTPaint*} (unnecessary)
-Xournal (seems useful, looks like it works well on the Z's screen res, useful with touchscreens, up for debate)

Office:
-Abiword* (kept for complete out-of-the-box experience)
-Gnumeric* (kept for complete out-of-the-box experience)

Terminals:
-RXVT-unicode (MRXVT is slightly buggy, others use VTE)
{-MRXVT / Aterm}
-Xterm

Security:
-IPTables* (kept because it is powerful/useful, easily ignored, and takes up little space)
-Firestarter* (kept because it is useful, easy to use, easily ignored, and takes up little space)

Other:
-WBar*
-CUPS*
-SSH
-SSHD (not enabled by default)*
-wget
-galculator

Games/Fun:
-XSolitaire*,**,****




*Dumpable if space becomes a concern
**For lack of a better app
{***My personal vote, TBD}
****Requires additional work

{} Removed, shown for completeness


Last update: 2008/07/09
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stupkid
post Jul 8 2008, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jul 8 2008, 09:31 PM) *
-Wi-Fi Radar**


I'm not a fan of this app on the Z. It is just too big and slow for me, but I have no better suggestions.

QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jul 8 2008, 09:31 PM) *
WM/GUI:
-Fluxbox***


I guess I can install whatever WM I want after the fact. A pre-configured wbar with one of those config tools you linked to in the wbar thread would be nice. It would give pdaXrom a bit of a new snazzy look.
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scheck.r
post Jul 9 2008, 09:05 AM
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Filesystem/editors:
- Nano
- Leafpad
- Geany(or Beaver) <--- maybe not in the image
- ROX-Filer
I would rather have ROX-Filer, I find it faster, you can have single-click navigation and configure shortcut keys the way you like just by adding gtk-can-change-accels = 1 in ~/.gtkrc-2.0 . i reckon that cut/copy/paste/link is rather cumbersome on small screen since you need to have 2 windows opened and not maximized.
You can have single-click navigation in PCManFM too but you need to patch the source. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=752706
I would add ROX-Archive which is very simple(no navigation inside archive, just plain extraction/creation)
As for GPartED, I find it too big and slow, it is not very often used, therefore i am in favor of fdisk and mkfs even if it's not user friendly.

WM/GUI:
- Fluxbox
That sounds good to me. I like split screen feature, it's useful when you want to drag and drop between 2 windows(ROX-Filer comes to mind). Actually i am using JWM for speed reasons and you can set it to maximize everytime selected apps.
I was thinking about Lxpanel combined with openbox. Lxpanel has lots of plugins(battery,volume,netstatus, cpumonitor, ...) and scans .desktop so the menu is updated when new apps are installed(I don't know if fluxbox does that but certainly not JWM) but I don't know about the ressources it would need on a Zaurus. I think there are GUIs now to configure Fluxbox.

Internet:
- Dillo(as an HTML viewer primarily) and Firefox3(or Midori or Skipstone)
I think WebKit is still not mature enough
- Ayttm? instead of Pidgin. See Ayttm? features
- Sylpheed instead of claws-mail. I don't use all the features of claws-mail and it's becoming quite big

Multimedia:
- Quasar
- MPlayer
- GPicView <---- great or maybe fotoxxx
- AlsamixerGUI**
- gsnapshot is very small, has GUI and you can select a region, entire screen or window
- EPDFView** <---- from SVN or maybe old xpdf 3.02, pdf are a pain to read on a Z,way too slow
- MTPaint* <--- not in the image

Terminals:
- Rxvt-unicode(very fast startup)
- Sakura if one needs tabs,GUI config, cut/copy/paste,...

Accessories:
- Galculator(or gpe-calculator which is faster to load)
- Xournal(or FreeNoteqt)
- Notecase (maybe not in the image)
- zip, unzip, bzip2, ...
- ROX-Archive(and maybe xarchive 0.2.8.6 for navigation)

System
- Package manager <----- Qpkg was OK to me

Security:
- IPTables* <--- not in the image
- Firestarter* <--- not in the image

Office:
- Abiword* <--- not in the image
- Gnumeric* <--- not in the image

No bluetooth packages in the image

And of course GUIs to configure wifi, power, ...
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Jon_J
post Jul 9 2008, 01:45 PM
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How about a "lite" version, somewhat like Cacko lite?
Just include a basic console and text editor and package manager and basic libs.
This would also need some basic files and configurations to connect online and use the feeds.
Then one could add packages when needed.
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espi
post Jul 9 2008, 03:20 PM
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I just started with my Zaurus and the only apps I use are:

Scribble
Xournal

for drawing and taking notes.

If there are better alternatives for drawing and taking notes, I'd try them, but ATM these 2 are pretty crucial.

I've also been really impressed with GIMP (it seems heavy for included app tho..)

Looking forward to a new release! Great!
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Capn_Fish
post Jul 9 2008, 04:51 PM
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OK, InSearchOf (and I ) agree that having "full" and "lite" versions is the way to go. The above list will be for the FULL version only. I'll probably stick some sort of mark to denote "also in the lite image."

EDIT: I'll get the new list up for debate in a bit.

EDIT2: New list is up.
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Capn_Fish
post Jul 9 2008, 05:42 PM
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Maybe handwriting recognition would be nice (Cellwriter)?

EDIT: And I suppose everybody wants PIM that syncs with Outlook, Exchange, Lotus, Google whatever, etc...*

*I don't know if such an app exists that we could use
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desertrat
post Jul 10 2008, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE(scheck.r @ Jul 9 2008, 05:05 PM) *
Filesystem/editors:
- Nano
- Leafpad
- Geany(or Beaver) <--- maybe not in the image
Are you suggesting to add Geany? C'mon there are already 2 editors listed (one CLI, one GUI). We don't want bloat (as in duplicate programs) even on a "full" image.

QUOTE
- ROX-Filer
I would rather have ROX-Filer, I find it faster, you can have single-click navigation
...
You can have single-click navigation in PCManFM too but you need to patch the source.

[rant]
This is something I find strange and irritating, how is single-click useable, especially on a touchscreen device? Sometimes I want to select an item without activating it, how does one do that without resorting to "right-click and cancel any context-sensitive menu"?
[/rant]

QUOTE
As for GPartED, I find it too big and slow, it is not very often used, therefore i am in favor of fdisk and mkfs even if it's not user friendly.
Agree. Anyway isn't GPartED just a GUI for fdisk/mkfs.* - ie you still need fdisk/mkfs.* regardless? Or replace fdisk with cfdisk if the namby pambys wants a gui.

QUOTE
I was thinking about Lxpanel combined with openbox. Lxpanel has lots of plugins(battery,volume,netstatus, cpumonitor, ...)
Wha's wrong with good old IceWM, it's fast, light (fairly) and has lots of "plugins" builtin.

QUOTE
and scans .desktop so the menu is updated when new apps are installed
that's nice, but if it keeps on spinning up the microdrive every minute or so it could be a serious drain on battery life.

QUOTE
- Galculator(or gpe-calculator which is faster to load)
Heh, my vote would be for the HP48 emulator, it loads much faster than Galculator and is somewhat more powerful smile.gif
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Capn_Fish
post Jul 10 2008, 10:55 AM
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As much as I like Geany, I think it's overkill for the defaut image. It's somewhat heavier than Leafpad, and most people don't edit code on their Z.

@desertrat: On the ROX topic, I agree completely, especially for directories where there are a lot of files, and the click + drag selection can't really be used.

GPartED has been taken out of the list.

Concerning the .desktop thing....I would have to research HOW it scans them. If it only scans when it's run (eg, when you start X), that's not bad at all. Even scanning when you open the menu wouldn't be THAT bad (and pretty darn easy to patch out).

On the HP48 topic: Link? My concerns here are that it may not fit on the screen well, it may be more complicated than necessary, and that it may be overly large (in KB/MB, not pixels).
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scheck.r
post Jul 10 2008, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE
QUOTE(scheck.r @ Jul 9 2008, 05:05 PM) *
Filesystem/editors:
- Nano
- Leafpad
- Geany(or Beaver) <--- maybe not in the image
Are you suggesting to add Geany? C'mon there are already 2 editors listed (one CLI, one GUI). We don't want bloat (as in duplicate programs) even on a "full" image.

If I remember correctly previous releases had SciTE, Leafpad and mcedit. I was just emphasizing that I find geany or beaver speedier than SciTE. We can leave it out of the image.
QUOTE
QUOTE
- ROX-Filer
I would rather have ROX-Filer, I find it faster, you can have single-click navigation
...
You can have single-click navigation in PCManFM too but you need to patch the source.

[rant]
This is something I find strange and irritating, how is single-click useable, especially on a touchscreen device? Sometimes I want to select an item without activating it, how does one do that without resorting to "right-click and cancel any context-sensitive menu"?
[/rant]
Single-click or double-click is a matter of taste but at least with ROX-Filer one can choose. In single-click mode, you can still select a file/directory by pressing Ctrl while taping and get the contextual menu by pressing Fn while taping.

QUOTE
QUOTE
I was thinking about Lxpanel combined with openbox. Lxpanel has lots of plugins(battery,volume,netstatus, cpumonitor, ...)
Wha's wrong with good old IceWM, it's fast, light (fairly) and has lots of "plugins" builtin.

I have nothing against IceWM, I just don't like it as much as fluxbox or JWM(I don't use any plugin however). I found the configuration files for IceWM obscure and somewhat buggy, the GUIs(icecontrol center, ...) are akward also. The GUIs to configure Fluxbox were just what I expected but they were not reliable/buggy(fluxconf, fluxkeys and fluxmenu). I didn't try yet the new GUIs for it. In the end, I find editing text files just fine, fast and not much less user friendly. Nevertheless, if we can have a well configured WM I'm happy with whatever solution we come up with.
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mars
post Jul 10 2008, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE(Jon_J @ Jul 9 2008, 09:45 PM) *
How about a "lite" version, somewhat like Cacko lite?
Just include a basic console and text editor and package manager and basic libs.
This would also need some basic files and configurations to connect online and use the feeds.
Then one could add packages when needed.


I would like to see a "maxi" version for the C3x00 models, with as much as possible included and pre-configured (like ROX). And then a convenient way to remove the packages (and dependencies) that aren't needed.
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desertrat
post Jul 11 2008, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jul 10 2008, 06:55 PM) *
On the HP48 topic: Link? My concerns here are that it may not fit on the screen well, it may be more complicated than necessary, and that it may be overly large (in KB/MB, not pixels).
I think I got my copy from here:
http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=17031

The package size is about 100K and you need a ROM image which uses 512K. As you can see from the above link it has been patched for a 640x480 screen so it fits just right.

Attached File  screencap8.png ( 23.85K ) Number of downloads: 39
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InSearchOf
post Jul 11 2008, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE(mars @ Jul 10 2008, 04:59 PM) *
QUOTE(Jon_J @ Jul 9 2008, 09:45 PM) *
How about a "lite" version, somewhat like Cacko lite?
Just include a basic console and text editor and package manager and basic libs.
This would also need some basic files and configurations to connect online and use the feeds.
Then one could add packages when needed.


I would like to see a "maxi" version for the C3x00 models, with as much as possible included and pre-configured (like ROX). And then a convenient way to remove the packages (and dependencies) that aren't needed.


Hmmm... I dont know if we will take the path of having 2 different releases... we will in most cases just stick to the lite and full image for now.

Late
PS. IRC is up... #pdaxrom @ FreeNode
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the_oak
post Jul 11 2008, 09:19 AM
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QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jul 9 2008, 09:42 PM) *
Maybe handwriting recognition would be nice (Cellwriter)?

EDIT: And I suppose everybody wants PIM that syncs with Outlook, Exchange, Lotus, Google whatever, etc...*

*I don't know if such an app exists that we could use


I am in favor of both PIM apps and handwriting recognition, if it works well (better than the one included in default Sharp ROM).

QUOTE
As for GPartED, I find it too big and slow, it is not very often used, therefore i am in favor of fdisk and mkfs even if it's not user friendly.

QUOTE(desertrat)
Agree. Anyway isn't GPartED just a GUI for fdisk/mkfs.* - ie you still need fdisk/mkfs.* regardless? Or replace fdisk with cfdisk if the namby pambys wants a gui.


I've used Gparted before on the desktop, and it allows something very useful: non-destructive resizing of partitions. I don't know if it is a front-end for fdisk, and mkfs, but I don't think either of those apps allow for resizing except by deleting, then re-creating the partition.

As far as GUIs being for "namby pambys", just consider me a namby pamby. laugh.gif If there is a GUI front-end for a tool in existence, I just see no need for arcane commands in a console. My objection would be if the application is just too large, too unreliable, or too slow. In that case, I would rather use a command line program.

Just my 2
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Capn_Fish
post Jul 11 2008, 03:57 PM
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I think it's just a frontend for parted, which most likely does include non-destructive resizing.

I personally don't like the idea of non-destructive repartitioning. It seems like an invitation for corruption and data loss, or long-term issues...*

*I have used the GPartED livecd to resize my partitions, and it worked fine. I reformatted soon after, so I can't verify my claims that it invites destruction.
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