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> Open Linux Mobile Phone By Trolltech, This might be what weve been waiting for
dhns
post Sep 13 2006, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE(miskinis @ Sep 13 2006, 07:41 PM)
QUOTE
... There is no Wifi on the Greenphone ...


Of course not! Companies are hungry for money! One company that makes
devices, has to partner with another company for telephony "stuff". The end
result is, that they want you (to be forced) to connect to a phone carrier's
network (for $) when you want to connect to the internet!

The "Green Phone", get it! smile.gif
*


I had thought the Greenphone should be a platform to push Linux phones and open software development. Not for making money by anyone.

And, there are some operators who operate both, a GPRS/UMTS and a WLAN Hotspot network. They don't really care too much.

What I suspect is that the hardware/software was not stable enough and they did not want to compromise the scheldule for launching the Greenphone.

But, together with the too high price and the licensing model they probably won't get too much new open software developers. They will get some companies who even pay an additional fee to develop closed software.

So, I think, most developers can live very well with a Zaurus + Bluetooth/WLAN card plus a bluetooth mobile phone from *insert your favourite brand*...

And to the title of this thread ("This might be what weve been waiting for") - not really...

-- hns
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zmiq2
post Sep 13 2006, 12:00 PM
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dhns, totally agree.

Once again we find an almost great linux platform, but dissapointing when looking at the details: no wifi, no umts and really expensive.
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koen
post Sep 13 2006, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Sep 13 2006, 08:00 PM)
dhns, totally agree.

Once again we find an almost great linux platform, but dissapointing when looking at the details: no wifi, no umts and really expensive.
*


Don't forget to mention the obsolete-before-launch 2.4 kernel from mvista it uses.
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speculatrix
post Sep 13 2006, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE(koen @ Sep 13 2006, 10:03 PM)
get to mention the obsolete-before-launch 2.4 kernel from mvista it uses.
*


yeah, dunno why they didn't want to run OZ with 2.6, thus they could have had a bleeding edge system without documentation and thus keep developers locked into their support contract!
tongue.gif
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miskinis
post Sep 13 2006, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE
[...] yeah, dunno why they didn't want to run OZ with 2.6, thus they could have had a bleeding edge system [...]


Hmm, without getting too far off track, I recently saw an announcement for OZ for
the 5500 with the 2.6 kernel, and after reading about it, and following some links,
I got the impression that SD cards and sound was not supported!

I'm being sincere, I'm not trying to be a smart allec, maybe I misinterpreted things...
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koen
post Sep 14 2006, 01:52 AM
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QUOTE(miskinis @ Sep 13 2006, 10:58 PM)
QUOTE
[...] yeah, dunno why they didn't want to run OZ with 2.6, thus they could have had a bleeding edge system [...]


Hmm, without getting too far off track, I recently saw an announcement for OZ for
the 5500 with the 2.6 kernel, and after reading about it, and following some links,
I got the impression that SD cards and sound was not supported!

I'm being sincere, I'm not trying to be a smart allec, maybe I misinterpreted things...
*



From the openzaurus.org frontpage:

QUOTE
Collie does not have working SD/MMC and we do not know when it will have it supported. Chip which control SD/MMC is not documented so to get it working under 2.6 someone would have to do some reverse-engineering work on 2.4 binary driver. Our kernel team work on getting other models fully supported.

It is experimental release to get wider testing of our work and to show all of you what we did during last months. Support for those machines needs some love and hard work, but machines are far more usable then they were under 2.4-crapix kernel.
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swing
post Sep 14 2006, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE(miskinis @ Sep 13 2006, 07:41 PM)
One company that makes
devices, has to partner with another company for telephony "stuff".  The end
result is, that they want you (to be forced) to connect to a phone carrier's
network (for $) when you want to connect to the internet!
It's changing though - look at Nokia who have now released phones with WiFi built in, and people like T-Mobile in the UK are promoting mobile phones with built in Skype apps on them!
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speculatrix
post Sep 14 2006, 05:23 AM
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QUOTE(swing @ Sep 14 2006, 01:46 PM)
It's changing though - look at Nokia who have now released phones with WiFi built in, and people like T-Mobile in the UK are promoting mobile phones with built in Skype apps on them!
*


I'm quite interested to see how the Nokia N80i will fare, their 6136 (I think) also does wifi/voip/sip. Apparently the SE P990 will do voip over wifi, but a quick google didn't reveal much technical detail.

British Telecom in the UK have a service called Fusion which uses a GSM mobile equipped with special firmware to use a bluetooth to PSTN gateway when at home; they're now also doing a wifi service but details are patchy: http://www.btbusinessshop.com/page/btfusion_hub

--edit: The Register got it wrong, BT business fusion is still bluetooth based--

So, convergence is definitely happening, and while the devices can contain lots of "bling" features, the actual voice-oip and video-oip still seems a bit clumsy.
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swing
post Sep 15 2006, 08:02 AM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Sep 14 2006, 02:23 PM)
British Telecom in the UK have a service called Fusion which uses a GSM mobile equipped with special firmware to use a bluetooth to PSTN gateway when at home; they're now also doing a wifi service but details are patchy: http://www.btbusinessshop.com/page/btfusion_hub
--edit: The Register got it wrong, BT business fusion is still bluetooth based--
Actually, I think the Register got it correct - BT have announced a Wifi version for corporates, as opposed to the Bluetooth version for consumers. However, given that BT can't yet confirm who is making the handsets, I think this is just an "announcement" and not a "shipping product" (it might not even be a designed product!).

So, we will see a Wifi version, just not yet smile.gif
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desertrat
post Sep 15 2006, 08:25 AM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Sep 14 2006, 01:23 PM)
I'm quite interested to see how the Nokia N80i will fare, their 6136 (I think) also does wifi/voip/sip. Apparently the SE P990 will do voip over wifi, but a quick google didn't reveal much technical detail.

The Nokia E70 does voip (sip) as well as have wifi.

QUOTE
So, convergence is definitely happening, and while the devices can contain lots of "bling" features, the actual voice-oip and video-oip still seems a bit clumsy.

It's actually quite easy to use once setup. On the E70 (I suspect the N80i will be the same) you can define one or more sip providers (gateways), you then register one of them (ie login/go online), from then on when you dial a number you can choose to make it an "internet call" ie voip. If you're on a wlan or have an unlimited data plan you can choose to leave the sip registered all day (or until your battery runs out smile.gif). And when you're registered you can receive calls via sip as well.

That's the theory. In practice these free sip providers seem to be rather flaky. Sometimes it takes ages for registration to succeed, sometimes it just plain fails. I've tried sipgate.co.uk, and sipphone.com so far. Yesterday sipgate.co.uk was ok, had no problems registering, but today it's hit and miss. sipphone.com which I've only started trying today is a bit hit and miss too. I can understand why there is so much momentum behind Skype because it "just works", which is a rather good thing.
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speculatrix
post Sep 15 2006, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 15 2006, 05:25 PM)
The Nokia E70 does voip (sip) as well as have wifi.

That's the theory. In practice these free sip providers seem to be rather flaky. Sometimes it takes ages for registration to succeed, sometimes it just plain fails. I've tried sipgate.co.uk, and sipphone.com so far. Yesterday sipgate.co.uk was ok, had no problems registering, but today it's hit and miss. sipphone.com which I've only started trying today is a bit hit and miss too. I can understand why there is so much momentum behind Skype because it "just works", which is a rather good thing.
*


the e70... hmmm.
http://www.nokia.co.uk/nokia/0,6771,84103,...ter=benefits#17
yup. I wish Nokia used better product codes so you can guess what a phone might do.

a quick browse suggests that the SIP client in the E70 isn't very good ther very last comment on this forum:
http://www.trixbox.org/modules/newbb/viewt..._id=262&forum=1
indicates a lot of annoyances!
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derekp
post Sep 15 2006, 10:15 AM
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One thing to keep in mind with this greenphone product, is that it is not an end-consumer device. I've heard a lot of people complain about the high price, lack of this or lack of that (wifi, etc..). But keep in mind that this was a special limited run of units (I think they only ordered 1000 in the initial run). That automatically creates a higher per-unit cost. And, if you compare this against the normal cost of evaluation / development platforms, it really is about right in line. I've seen arm / xscale dev boards go for around $1500 or so.

Now, it would have been nice if Trolltech would have decided to make this a consumer device, with better power management (longer talk time / standby time), better radio, more expandability. But then they would be in compitition with their customers (the handset makers that they hope will start selling qtopia phone edition based phones). Also, the average person wouldn't buy it, because even with higher production runs it would still cost around $300 to $500 (that's about the going price for a Treo). The only way a consumer would get this is if it was offered subsidized by a carrier (i.e., so it appears as a "free" phone).

Personally, I think I'm going to go the do it yourself route. I'm not going to go as far as the Pocket Penguin group here is doing (buiding the circuit boards from scratch), howerver I was looking at getting a GumStix module, lcd, gsm module, and pack it all in either a regular phone housing (you can get the housings fairly cheap), or gut one of those $5 toy phones and use that for a housing. Total cost doing it this way would be around $450 or so, but it won't have that "finished" look and feel. Other option is to pick up a Motorola A780 and load up the userland replacement from open-ezx project. That may be the easier route, but then I'd be lacking a few hardware features.
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lpotter
post Sep 15 2006, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE(koen @ Sep 14 2006, 07:03 AM)
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Sep 13 2006, 08:00 PM)
dhns, totally agree.

Once again we find an almost great linux platform, but dissapointing when looking at the details: no wifi, no umts and really expensive.
*


Don't forget to mention the obsolete-before-launch 2.4 kernel from mvista it uses.
*



You would have to talk to Yuhuatel about that. There are good reasons why they stuck with 2.4. Size for one thing.

How would you know if it is from montavista or not, I am quite sure you have yet to even see one.
*cough*
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lpotter
post Sep 15 2006, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE(derekp @ Sep 16 2006, 04:15 AM)
One thing to keep in mind with this greenphone product, is that it is not an end-consumer device.  I've heard a lot of people complain about the high price, lack of this or lack of that (wifi, etc..).  But keep in mind that this was a special limited run of units (I think they only ordered 1000 in the initial run).  That automatically creates a higher per-unit cost.  And, if you compare this against the normal cost of evaluation / development platforms, it really is about right in line.  I've seen arm / xscale dev boards go for around $1500 or so.

try more like $3000 + for some reference boards.
QUOTE
Now, it would have been nice if Trolltech would have decided to make this a consumer device, with better power management (longer talk time / standby time), better radio, more expandability.  But then they would be in compitition with their customers (the handset makers that they hope will start selling qtopia phone edition based phones).  Also, the average person wouldn't buy it, because even with higher production runs it would still cost around $300 to $500 (that's about the going price for a Treo).  The only way a consumer would get this is if it was offered subsidized by a carrier (i.e., so it appears as a "free" phone).

Trolltech is not in the hardware business. We sell software. The Greenphone is an SDK Development Kit. Nothing else.
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miskinis
post Sep 15 2006, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE
The Greenphone is an SDK Development Kit. Nothing else.


Gee, now I feel a little sorry for my somewhat-sarcastic post. In that case,
it's very cool. There is nothing in my mind that is better, than an actual
portable device to develop for/on. Emulators get boring and tiresome in the long haul. smile.gif
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