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> Body Design, Features wishlist for the PDA body
wsuetholz
post Aug 9 2006, 11:01 PM
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Hello,
This a little bit premature, but, when designing these things, usually the system board layout has to work with the design of the shell that the board will inhabit.

Some of the things that I recall about the current thinking for the body are:

1) Initial design will be a clamshell case like the SL-Cxx00 series
2) A 4" transreflective display 640x480 minimum
3) A hardware keyboard built in (just to be clear)
4) 1 CF Slot, CFIO capable - this is a no...
5) SD Slot, SDIO capable
6) 1 USB port, not sure if Mini or normal, Client or Host, or combined
7) 1 HDMI port for video out
8) 1 Audio out
9) 1 Audio in
10) 1 Camera
11) 1 Power input (again just to be clear)
12) Easy access to battery(ies)
13) Easy access to reset button
14) A Rocker switch (because the Z has it)
15) A Cancel and an OK button (because the Z has it)
16) A Power On/Suspend/Off button (no reason can't work like PC)
17) A speaker
18) A microphone
19) External antenna connection(s)
20) GSM Identity card access
21) a bunch of LEDs (HD, POWER, BT, WIFI, ...)
22) Fingerprint reader

Boy, that's alot of stuff.....

However, there can never be enough... Some things I'd like to see in additon are:
1) 2 CF externally accessable. No internal HD, I'd like to be able to easily switch out HD's. This one will be very hard to accomplish, because of the realestate needed.
2) Both the USB Host and Client ports available in the full sized version.
3) I'd like to see 2 SD slots.
4) Maybe stereo speakers?

The keyboard should have some application keys some of which could be lighted different colors, to indicate on/off status, ie turn on bluetooth, or wi-fi. The rest of the keyboard should be able to be backlit.

--edit-- added in the fingerprint reader, and make comment about CF slot

Bill
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 9 2006, 11:19 PM
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Actually we have 2 SD slots and no external CF. it makes things alot easire for me. 2 CF slots would be quite hard to do and i am not 100% sure if it is posible so that is why there is one

Stereo speakers sounds nice, i belive thats what we were going to put in in our original post (one ethier side of the screen) however if using it as a phone we may need to reconsider the placment.

we will have at least 1 Full sized host port, i have been against putting in a usb mini B plug to connect to a PC as i belive that samthing like a PC to PC usb cable is a better idea as it can be reused for normal PC's and i would rather have 2 full sized host slots rather than 1 client and one full sized host.

i am open to sugestions on that one, with the correct adaptor even thogh its not a mini B connector you could still turn it into a client port by enabling it as a client in software and then using the adaptor and a normal USB cable ( i have the connecter right here at the moment and have never seen a use for it till now) perhaps i can ship the connector with the unit for those who want it.

trust me the keyboard will blow your mind, i have one or two things in the works for the design of it that still need a bit of refinment (will post them latter) however at the moment the keyboard is looking like a c3000 keyboard with larger keys (less of a gap between them) and a couple more short cut keys, all backlit. the round shortcut keys also have a transperent ring around them with an indvidual LED (because i use mine for VT switching and it would be nice to know which one i am on)

also we might have 2 rocker switches (one front and one back, about 1/4 of the way down the case) apart from that everything else looks correct
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morrijr
post Aug 10 2006, 03:49 AM
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Fingerprint reader.
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wsuetholz
post Aug 10 2006, 06:00 AM
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Could we put the application buttons by the screen? That way we wouldn't need to have those touch screen psuedo buttons, and would free up space on the main keyboard for more regular keys without needing fn+. Of course if you use the gull-wing design, the extra application buttons go there, right? I personally don't mind that design, but if you use that, do the 5, 6, or 7 inch screens become more acceptable? Do I hear widescreen? 800x400 anyone?

Bill
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wsuetholz
post Aug 10 2006, 06:07 AM
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I'd really like to be able to easily get at whatever internal storage is decided upon, without voiding the warranty (warranty??? WHAT warranty?). That was my real reason for suggesting 2 CF slots, since I thought that the current design decision was to use the CF/ATA interface of the chip for an internal HD. If we could design things to use the drives that Apple is using for their iPods that would be really nice :-) because those drives are very inexpensive compared to the CF HD's that the Z uses. Standard off the shelf components are good for a project like this.

Bill
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BarryW
post Aug 10 2006, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(wsuetholz @ Aug 10 2006, 05:07 AM)
I'd really like to be able to easily get at whatever internal storage is decided upon, without voiding the warranty (warranty??? WHAT warranty?).  That was my real reason for suggesting 2 CF slots, since I thought that the current design decision was to use the CF/ATA interface of the chip for an internal HD.  If we could design things to use the drives that Apple is using for their iPods that would be really nice :-) because those drives are very inexpensive compared to the CF HD's that the Z uses.  Standard off the shelf components are good for a project like this.

Bill
*



How about make it so the internal drive is accessable from the battery compartment. You know, pull the battery and there is the end of the drive. Would make it less likely to pull the wrong card out, and free up some edge space.
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 11 2006, 10:38 PM
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i would be worried about the clearence issues if we make it acsesible from the battery slot. even more so if we use an ipod drive

2CF slots is a no go, i want to keep the device slim and waste as little board space as posible. i have a feeling that we ay run into a board density problem that can only be fiked by adding more pcb layers and spliting the design into 2 boards that are stacked on top of each other

the screen is a bit of a tricky isue, i want to keep it thin. micro buttons would fit however it has been mentioned that the area ethier side of the screen is great for speakers. i guess it comes down to the first pearson to dummy up some pictures and mesurements

i still dont know why you would want to get at the internal storage, if you need the CF for a camera why not just plug the camera in. if its to upgrade then i think it is worth getting out a screwdriver, i promise that it wont be as painfoul as the dis/assembly of the c3k. if its in case you b0rk your PDA then you need not worry, the trusted computing stuff as well as some clever preboot userland stuff will take care of mantaince in the case of catastrfic failure, not only that it will be posible to have live SD cards (live CD's) like with altboot

if we use the apple drive then you will really want the design to be as thin as posible. the problem is that using an ipod drive changes the entire design in terms of placment. with a CF card its best to go with a small board that is "stacked" against other boards. withthe ipod its better to just have the one large board. it shouldnt be too hard to come up with multiple layouts however i will most likly only support one or two due to the cost (i need to make at least one for bug testing)

basically we will see what happens in the comming months, perhaps we will go with large amounts of flash instead
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Zuse
post Aug 12 2006, 07:33 AM
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Hi everyone,

just my ideas for a body design:

make it flexible.
AFAIK, we want a slim but powerfull PDA, this are two major design rules which run contrariwise.

Many functions means many power consumption which results in big heavy batteries.

If possible I would suggest a modular design, which fits different everyday needs.
Some laptop manufactors use multi-purpose bays. One standardised (at least standard accross there own range of laptops) bay which can be used to plug in different modules (CD-ROM, DVD, HDD etc.)

Extend this to a general purpose PDA bay. Every module include all functions which are need for a particular task.

E.g.
A storage module, which include a second CF and SD slot as well as maybe other card formats and addtional USB interfaces both host and slave.
Makes it perfect if you need your PDA as a file storage container and if you need to access to a lot of different devices (digital camera, storage cards, mp3-player etc.)

A desktop module, VGA-out, USB for keyboard and mouse connection, extended audio plugs (e.g. line in, line out) and a NIC
use your PDA like a real PC

A multimedia module, web-cam, speakers, audio, direct-buttons for media control TV-out
use your PDA as a multimedia box

wink.gif A PDA module, just empty to save power, size and weight wink.gif

A long-life module, include extra battery power and easy charging possiblities (e.g. charge the device by USB port or by any DC-source between 3 and 24 volts (car and trucks))
use to travel with your PDA everywhere even if charging would be tricky at the there.

Car module, GPS, 12V DC supply, GSM
use for navigation with GSM-based traffic reports

A GSM module,
phone biggrin.gif

etc etc.

Important would be to define which peripheral devices belong to one module (maybe some are multiple). It should follow the way how we use the PDA in different situation.

If I have a group-meeting, I need no multimedia functions as well as VGA, GSM or network.
During traveling, battery is important but I do not need VGA or powerful external speakers,
During a presentation, GSM and network functions might not be important, but VGA (for video projectors) will be.
On a daily holiday photo-trip with my digital camera I need my PDA as a dictonary and storage tank for the pictures, I do not need VGA.

etc.

By this way I can plug the module I need to my PDA. All other modules can be stored in my bag or wherever.

Just the everyday needs devices need to be integrated into the PDA directly. One SD slot, 1 USB slot, bluetooth and Wifi, headphones and microphone. That's it.

The modules can have the same size as the PDA and attached under the back-side of the PDA (like a docking-station). Thus, different size (in thickness) could meet the different moblitiy criterias. The desktop-module could be bigger, no modules result is a slim and lightweight PDA for traveling. Slightly, addtional size in the width my be usefull for integrated antennas etc.

Just a idea for a very flexible design.

Bye
Zuse
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 13 2006, 03:48 AM
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this has to fit in my pocket
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 13 2006, 03:50 AM
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we plan to use the bay concept and backpacks (see the compaq 3x00 series) however it is case dependent and very hard to pull off corectlly, remeber i am designing the PCB not the casing
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BarryW
post Aug 13 2006, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Aug 13 2006, 02:50 AM)
we plan to use the bay concept and backpacks (see the compaq 3x00 series) however it is case dependent and very hard to pull off corectlly, remeber i am designing the PCB not the casing
*



I saw some firewire drives online once that had firewire ports on the top and bottom. You could stack them together and they would daisy chain together. Now if you could do that with say, mini usb ports you could do the "dock" part pretty easily. Add a few screw holes like the SL-6000's sleeve to hold it together.
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 14 2006, 12:12 AM
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thats a very nice solution, i will think about how to engineer somthing like this, my idea was a sleave with a high density ronnector at the end of the PDA
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wsuetholz
post Aug 14 2006, 08:02 AM
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That is a very nice idea, maybe each unit can have it's own battery, that could be used by the whole machine? Power and charging through the USB connection... Might want to use the micro USB connectors for this though because they wouldn't stick as far into the case. Maybe all the power and charging could be through USB ports, rather than needing the round power connector?

Bill
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BarryW
post Aug 14 2006, 09:57 AM
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QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Aug 13 2006, 11:12 PM)
thats a very nice solution, i will think about how to engineer somthing like this, my idea was a sleave with a high density ronnector at the end of the PDA
*



I'll see if I can dig up the drives, that way you can see what I'm talking about.

Found it.

http://www.applelinks.com/mooresviews/quadslim.shtml
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 14 2006, 07:45 PM
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very intresting, i dont think i would use a mini usb sockect but somthing with a higher diensity so that we can put other things on the connector (perhaps that is a better way to get SPDIF and video out off the device)

i dont like the styling much however i am sure we can whip somthing up that looks simmilar to the PP case

onec again a great idea, keep them rolling in
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