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> Software Archive For The Zaurus
allanjard
post Jun 9 2005, 05:59 AM
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Hello all,

For a number of years now I've been using the Zaurus software index (www.killefiz.de/zaurus) for applications for my sl-5500. Now I've upgraded to a c1000, and I'm using the pdaxrom feeds for the software - I didn't realise until today that ZSI had been replaced by the Embedded Linux Software Index (www.elsix.org) - and it would appear that many are the same. I understand Roy who has been developing elsix.org doesn't have time to work on it any more and I was wondering if there was interest from others who would like to see a new central web-site for Zaurus software.

Key requirements:
- Search - the index should be easily and fully searchable - almost google like in its simplicity
- Platforms - the Zaurus community used to be rather compact, but its incredibly diverse now, and I would like to include a feature which will indicate which platform software has been created for, fully tested on and works on.
- Easy interface - so we can use it from our Z's :-)
- Feedback - (possibly using moderators) do dead links etc are removed
- Version tracking for software - so each package is only mentioned once
- Capture remote data from feeds - Feeds are used a lot now, but aren't all that helpful if you don't have access to the net from your Z. Collecting data from the feeds would save a lot of effort on the part of developers. And they could then go to the site and add information about the package (or use information from another package if its the same for a different rom etc).

Ideas taken from:
- www.killefiz.de/zaurus - wonderful site, but a little lacking in some areas and not updated much
- www.elsix.org - not updated much, a bit lack-luster.
- www.versiontracker.com - wonderul site for macintosh software
- www.rpmfind.net - very useful site for finding packages for a particular linux distro.

What do you all think?

Allan

- I'm not much of a software for an OS developer, I'm a web-developer, so this is a little way of giving something back to a very cool community... smile.gif
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jamesm
post Jun 9 2005, 06:37 AM
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QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 02:59 PM)
Hello all,

For a number of years now I've been using the Zaurus software index (www.killefiz.de/zaurus) for applications for my sl-5500. Now I've upgraded to a c1000, and I'm using the pdaxrom feeds for the software - I didn't realise until today that ZSI had been replaced by the Embedded Linux Software Index (www.elsix.org) - and it would appear that many are the same. I understand Roy who has been developing elsix.org doesn't have time to work on it any more and I was wondering if there was interest from others who would like to see a new central web-site for Zaurus software.

Key requirements:
    - Search - the index should be easily and fully searchable - almost google like in its simplicity
    - Platforms - the Zaurus community used to be rather compact, but its incredibly diverse now, and I would like to include a feature which will indicate which platform software has been created for, fully tested on and works on.
    - Easy interface - so we can use it from our Z's :-)
    - Feedback - (possibly using moderators) do dead links etc are removed
    - Version tracking for software - so each package is only mentioned once
    - Capture remote data from feeds - Feeds are used a lot now, but aren't all that helpful if you don't have access to the net from your Z. Collecting data from the feeds would save a lot of effort on the part of developers. And they could then go to the site and add information about the package (or use information from another package if its the same for a different rom etc).

Ideas taken from:
    - www.killefiz.de/zaurus - wonderful site, but a little lacking in some areas and not updated much
  - www.elsix.org - not updated much, a bit lack-luster.
  - www.versiontracker.com - wonderul site for macintosh software
  - www.rpmfind.net - very useful site for finding packages for a particular linux distro.

What do you all think?

Allan

- I'm not much of a software for an OS developer, I'm a web-developer, so this is a little way of giving something back to a very cool community... smile.gif
*



Well we now have two websites that initially intended to be the "central web-site for Zaurus software" and apparently neither one is. So why not help to develop the extra functionality for one or the other (probably elsix) instead of creating "yet another" website that will probably die the same death when you get bored of maintaining it in the same way as the other two have.

Thats the problem with a lot of open source software, so much reinvention of the wheel. Why not fix whats obviously broken?
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allanjard
post Jun 9 2005, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE
Thats the problem with a lot of open source software, so much reinvention of the wheel. Why not fix whats obviously broken?


I did think about that - Roy mentioned in a different post that I found that he had opened the source for the elsix site. However, given how the site is (no offence to Roy - he's done a stirling job) I am of the opinion that it would be better of to start again - designing it from the ground up with the input of the community. Looking at the post announcing elsix.org, there is a lot of stuff there that should have been addressed in the design phase - and stuff that hasn't been implemented at all.

I can see why you think its a problem with open source - but it can also be an advantage... There is only really one site meant to be the central hub - and thats elsix.org - it replaces ZSI. But I think it can be done much better.

Of course if consensus is with your option then I will take a crack the source for elsix. Perhaps this could be elsix2?

Allan
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ScottYelich
post Jun 9 2005, 07:11 AM
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I have a machine ready for this function -- if someone else can put together people
to manage the website, etc.

I have a fast link, 2000GB/mo xfer and perhaps 100GB of space I could provide.

Please discuss here in public.

What I do not want to do is take away from any site such as ZUG, etc.
What I do not want to do is to have to spend hours a day policing forums
and/or deleting spam/pc/windows/virus uploads.

What I don't mind doing is providing a machine, bandwidth and disk space.

Scott
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allanjard
post Jun 9 2005, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE(ScottYelich @ Jun 9 2005, 03:11 PM)
I have a machine ready for this function -- if someone else can put together people to manage the website, etc.

What I do not want to do is take away from any site such as ZUG, etc. What I do not want to do is to have to spend hours a day policing forums and/or deleting spam/pc/windows/virus uploads.


Awesome! Now we have a developer - and a server smile.gif Its a good start.

I completely agree - nothing should be taken away from ZUG, or OESF - I don't propose that we make new forums or anything like that, just a site for Zaurus software. Working together as a community.

We could even provide personalised feeds which people build up based up a set of rules (ie Sharp ROM 3.1, 5500...).
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dz
post Jun 9 2005, 10:59 AM
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If this is what the community wants, then I will help support this endeavour and if you can get it rolling completely, we (the OESF) can offer the hosting and starting database. ibiblio hosts us completely free of charge, so there's no sense in putting the cost on a private individual.

I agree that the elsi could use some improvement. When I made the site, I did it with the hope that eventually I'd be able to get some help. I have had some great help with people looking for spam, but unfortunately noone's been willing to help with code. It was all fine and easy at first when I was in college and had plenty of time. On top of that, my fiance was 1000 miles away doing her internship. Now though, I have a full-time job and my fiance is back so time is much tighter. This, I am willing to bet, will be the same issue you will run in to. Time, and lack of help.

The elsi laid a solid backbone which has actually been running pretty good. I've had very, very few bugs. Anything that isn't working is that way only because I haven't programmed it in yet. Besides that, everything else runs smooth.

Also, I do really apologize for not responding to the feedback you guys send in. I get several per day, and none of them get deleted. They all get read and filed into a folder, but I really don't have time to respond to each and every one. If you go to the sourceforge site for elsi, you can see all the feature requests you've all submitted in the task list. Perhaps in the future when the oesf matures some more, we can have a dedicated person for handling those kind of requests and replying.

Anyways, as I said before, if the community really feels the elsi isn't up to par then I am all for someone building a new software repository. The goal of the elsi was not to merely replace the zsi, but to improve upon it. Most of the suggestions you guys have written in this post are easy changes I think. We just need someone with more time than I to code them in.

If what you make helps the community more then the elsi does, then you have my support.
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ken
post Jun 9 2005, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
I agree that the elsi could use some improvement.  When I made the site, I did it


The part that bothers me the most has simply to do with the search feature. What has happened is that I now use killefiz to find things, then go back to elsix to grab what I need, if killefiz doesn't have the link.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
help with people looking for spam, but unfortunately noone's been willing to help with code.  It was all fine and easy at first when I was in college and had plenty of


I've wanted to repair dead links, etc, but haven't heard any replies. I didn't want to "claim" the program as it wasn't mine. I simply wanted to make the corrections and move on.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
The elsi laid a solid backbone which has actually been running pretty good.  I've had very, very few bugs.  Anything that isn't working is that way only because I haven't


yes, it does appear to be stable. The slightly more complex interface isn't too bad, or the being unable to browse like I did in killefiz (which I miss) is also something I could live with. Admittedly, it does seem a bit many steps, but it's stable, and the work is appreciated.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
Also, I do really apologize for not responding to the feedback you guys send in.  I get several per day, and none of them get deleted.  They all get read and filed into a folder, but I really don't have time to respond to each and every one.  If you go to


This explains why I've never had a response.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
Anyways, as I said before, if the community really feels the elsi isn't up to par then


This is certainly not the case, at least from what I see. Reinventing the wheel doesn't seem necessary. Just some slight fixes.
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dz
post Jun 9 2005, 12:55 PM
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ken, if you'd like, I can give your account mod access and then you can correct any errors that you find.

PM me with your login and I'll set you as a mod on the elsi.
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allanjard
post Jun 9 2005, 01:07 PM
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Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
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saiten
post Jun 9 2005, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 09:07 PM)
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
*


I absolutely completely dont agree - despite the best intent - ELSI was never a useable alternative to Killefiz.
It got completely lost in latest releases as opposed to the database of available app's for whatever platform. It was also much too PDAXROM orientated. Many of us dont want to use pdaxrom and wait for 60 seconds for an app' to appear.

Go back to the easy to use killefiz format and we'll all be very much more happy.

S

(I did strongly voice this when the format was first changed!)
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dz
post Jun 9 2005, 05:50 PM
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allanjard: The source is in the CVS Repository.
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robertcloud
post Jun 9 2005, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 09:07 PM)
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
*


maybe you could make a poll?
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offroadgeek
post Jun 9 2005, 06:54 PM
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Here's my 2 cents...

I think it's crazy to scrap ELSI complete and start from scratch. While I'm not a web developer, I know a lot about web development. I've managed many, many web development projects and I've rarely ever seen a developer suggest scrapping an entire (especially newly) built system and start all over. The ELSI has a great foundation with a strong backend. The ELSI has already incorporated all of the projects and data from the ZSI.

While many people favor the simplicity of the ZSI, many still realize that simplicity is not everything, as well as the fact that the requirements for a proper software repository is more complicated, ie. being able to have the same application have multiple ipks for diifferent ROMs, automated feeds, etc.

And just for the record, Roy didn't get 'bored' with the ELSI, he simply graduated from college and landed a (great) full time job.

As Roy pointed out, we already have great hosting setup, and it's completely free! I don't see any reason to change this part.

I just don't understand the comment that ELSI is "much too PDAXROM orientated". I just don't see that...

I strongly urge the community to not just throw away something because it's not perfect and because it's different from the old, safe ZSI.
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ken
post Jun 9 2005, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE(saiten @ Jun 9 2005, 02:00 PM)
I absolutely completely dont agree - despite the best intent - ELSI was never a useable alternative to Killefiz.
It got completely lost in latest releases as opposed to the database of available app's for whatever platform. It was also much too PDAXROM orientated. Many of us dont want to use pdaxrom and wait for 60 seconds for an app' to appear.

Go back to the easy to use killefiz format and we'll all be very much more happy.


I don't use the pdaxrom. For the most part, I'm still using the plain vanilla Sharp rom. Not sure where you get the impression it's pdaxrom-centric, however, I do plan on going through most of the things that are there, finding broken links, etc.

OZ stuff wouldn't be there, as they use feeds (I think they're also stuck with that for the most part).

Once thing I am curious about though, is why they have older versions of the programs being listed. That part I'd hope would change. If we needed an older version, I'd hope the author would have it on his homepages.

edit: ok, I see how it's done. I'll be updating various places to include information on the 5500 and 6K and so forth. I'll need a little time. If you see something that needs updating, feel free to pm me. Be aware that if I edit something, I'll want to check it out myself to verify that the information is correct.

edit: ok, I've added dmblogger to see how difficult things are. I have to say it was rather difficult. There are too many required questions imo. I can't have it not show me as the author (I wanted to put the correct author's name in). I think I managed to more or less add it in, but with the many many questions ... that's a little tough! I can certainly see the attraction of killefiz in adding things in. I think it's mostly functional if it simply points to the author's pages, and if they don't have one anymore, then certainly have it hosts on elsix.

Would it be possible to have both running for the moment on elsix? I wouldn't mind updating both sides (although from my experience thus far, I probably would lean toward killefiz's method of adding things in).

edit: I have a few suggestions about elsix.

1) remove the redundant "sharp zaurus" words from the different models - we already know it's that. Keeping it there makes it harder to see the models.
2) hide the fields like pxa255, etc. or make them optional. Having so many fields makes it bothersome to add a new package
3) I started to add images to the "applications" section noticed that the image size doesn't quite work out. Perhaps make the images to fit killefiz's size (240x320 which is the screencap size for the 5x00), or something so the images resize better (publish the size of the image that it needs to be (I think it's about 160xwhatever))
4) remove some redundant information, like the line that's between the boxes
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offroadgeek
post Jun 9 2005, 06:59 PM
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QUOTE(robertcloud @ Jun 9 2005, 06:46 PM)
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 09:07 PM)
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
*


maybe you could make a poll?
*



We could, but I would rather not right away so that people could thing about this thoroughly, and post their feedback to justifiy why we should go one way or the other.
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