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> Pocketworkstation Basics, (for the newbie)
McChubby
post Jul 8 2006, 05:07 AM
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I've been trying pocketworkstation on my C3200 but I keep having problems...

Will pocketworkstation work with OZ? If so, OPIE or GPE? And if so, any links to useful docs?

It seems that all the docs I've read talk about using it with a Sharp-based ROM (or Cacko etc.), which I don't want to use.
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koen
post Jul 8 2006, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE(McChubby @ Jul 8 2006, 01:07 PM)
I've been trying pocketworkstation on my C3200 but I keep having problems...

Will pocketworkstation work with OZ?  If so, OPIE or GPE?  And if so, any links to useful docs?

It seems that all the docs I've read talk about using it with a Sharp-based ROM (or Cacko etc.), which I don't want to use.
*


As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.

PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull
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omro
post Jul 8 2006, 06:17 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 05:58 AM)
As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.


If Open Office 1 or 2 worked well in OZ under GPE I'd have no reason to use any other ROM ever. GPE is by far my fave environment at the moment.
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koen
post Jul 8 2006, 07:01 AM
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QUOTE(omro @ Jul 8 2006, 02:17 PM)
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 05:58 AM)
As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.


If Open Office 1 or 2 worked well in OZ under GPE I'd have no reason to use any other ROM ever. GPE is by far my fave environment at the moment.
*



OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build smile.gif
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McChubby
post Jul 8 2006, 07:56 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 02:58 PM)
As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.

PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull
*

Good point - I had read similar points from you recently in other posts, and I agree! I wasn't trying to stir anything up; more a case of just seeing what pocketworkstation had to offer by trying it out - as I haven't had my Z very long, and I'm still on the steep learning curve. blink.gif

My opinion at the moment is that of Cacko, PdaXrom, GPE and OPIE, I like the look and feel of GPE best (I like the option of being more X-like, choice of WMs etc.), but really want to use Ko/Pi and related, so OPIE looks like my best choice (as I also like the propable compatibility with Sharp/Cacko apps). However I really want a decent "office" suite, like abiword/gnumeric, which isn't available on OPIE.

So, I need a decent PIM and office suite available at the same time, and from my small amount of knowledge I don't think both are available in either GPE or OPIE.

I understand that you can run GPE and OPIE together, but I haven't tried that yet, and I don't know if that configuration will solve my problem. One of my concerns was that the "GPE and OPIE together" wiki was written (by you) last year, and I wasn't sure if it was still relevant (given that other topics on this forum offer fixes/solutions to overcome various problems, and that they have not been integrated into a single guide), and that because I have a C3200 I wasn't sure if I had to move OPIE to SD or whether I could leave as-is (since I don't understand how the dual OPIE/GPE thing works!).

Any help appreciated. biggrin.gif
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koen
post Jul 8 2006, 08:06 AM
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QUOTE(McChubby @ Jul 8 2006, 03:56 PM)
[..]
but really want to use Ko/Pi and related, so OPIE looks like my best choice
[..]

*


1) What does KO/PI offer that gpe-pim doesn't offer? I'm sure the gpe people would like to know.
2) You can get KO/PI for X11 as well, the OE recipes are in the OE bugtracker ( http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371 ), but *noone* bothered to test them out (kinda surprising since a lot of people ask for them).
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McChubby
post Jul 8 2006, 08:14 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 05:06 PM)
QUOTE(McChubby @ Jul 8 2006, 03:56 PM)

[..]
but really want to use Ko/Pi and related, so OPIE looks like my best choice
[..]

*


1) What does KO/PI offer that gpe-pim doesn't offer? I'm sure the gpe people would like to know.
2) You can get KO/PI for X11 as well, the OE recipes are in the OE bugtracker ( http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=371 ), but *noone* bothered to test them out (kinda surprising since a lot of people ask for them).
*



1) I don't know - I will look into this and give feedback.

2) So, being new to all this, how could I get/build this and test it?

Thanks for your quick reply.
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McChubby
post Jul 8 2006, 09:07 AM
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QUOTE(McChubby @ Jul 8 2006, 04:56 PM)
I understand that you can run GPE and OPIE together, but I haven't tried that yet, and I don't know if that configuration will solve my problem.  One of my concerns was that the "GPE and OPIE together" wiki was written (by you) last year, and I wasn't sure if it was still relevant (given that other topics on this forum offer fixes/solutions to overcome various problems, and that they have not been integrated into a single guide), and that because I have a C3200 I wasn't sure if I had to move OPIE to SD or whether I could leave as-is (since I don't understand how the dual OPIE/GPE thing works!).

Any help appreciated.  biggrin.gif
*

OK, I followed the wiki (but did NOT move root to SD/CF) and here and it all works for my C3200, basically do what the wiki says (but don't move root), and also, after GPE is installed, change terminal settings in /etc/init.d/opie back to 2, and disable sleep in GPE.
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adf
post Jul 8 2006, 11:24 AM
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"As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.

PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull"

er... ok.
there are a few things.

On the 6000, for example, the stock network applet is easier to use if one connects to multiple networks (not strictly a PW thing, but it affects people's choices)

Some hope of getting firefox plugins (like Java, Mplayer-plugin and gpl-flash). Not really hapnin' on pw outta the box, workin pdaX and pdaXqt and surely conceivable on PW.

openoffice (don't know if that works in gpe)

Honestly, though, I think the real reason people do this is isn't so much what pocketworkstation has that OZ doesn't, but what can be easily and coveniently done in the sharprom "behind" it while still having an X based desktop-type linux. Things like usb networking, multiple hotspots, etc (meanie has a good list on his site) are a snap in sharprom, and are long threads for gpe, you know? I think if the usb, networking, (and package manager) applets, some easy plugins for firefox, (a working network applet on the 6k) and maybe a thing or two more (again see meanie's list--short, but clear) were tweaked you'd see more of a migration to OZ..
Also, while Netfront and Opera have their shortcomings, more work on browsers in OZ might help pull people out of the ease of having NF and opera 'right there."

My 6000 is on sharprom/tetsu-kernel/PW instead of OZ mostly because of the simplicity of the sharp networking applet on the 6k (and a few other minor things). OZ would have been the preferred choice for it, but using oZ on a 6k is just a litttle bit less convenient. I think there might be a lot of this going on....

I hope this helps?
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omro
post Jul 8 2006, 12:03 PM
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QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 07:01 AM)
QUOTE(omro @ Jul 8 2006, 02:17 PM)
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 05:58 AM)
As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.


If Open Office 1 or 2 worked well in OZ under GPE I'd have no reason to use any other ROM ever. GPE is by far my fave environment at the moment.
*



OOo has alreadby been noted and is being worked on. I should be receiving an ARM board with 256MB ram next week so I can do a native build smile.gif
*



I may have to fall in love with you biggrin.gif
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koen
post Jul 8 2006, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ Jul 8 2006, 07:24 PM)
"As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.

PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull"

er... ok.
there are a few things.

On the 6000, for example, the stock network applet is easier to use if one connects to multiple networks (not strictly a PW thing, but it affects people's choices)

Some hope of getting firefox plugins (like Java, Mplayer-plugin and gpl-flash). Not really hapnin' on pw outta the box, workin pdaX and pdaXqt and surely conceivable on PW.

openoffice (don't know if that works in gpe)

Honestly, though, I think the real reason people do this is isn't so much what pocketworkstation has that OZ doesn't, but what can be easily and coveniently done in the sharprom "behind" it while still having an X based desktop-type linux.  Things like usb networking, multiple hotspots, etc (meanie has a good list on his site) are a snap in sharprom, and are long threads for gpe, you know?  I think if the usb, networking, (and package manager) applets, some easy plugins for firefox, (a working network applet on the 6k) and maybe a thing or two more (again see meanie's list--short, but clear) were tweaked you'd see more of a migration to OZ..
Also, while Netfront and Opera have their shortcomings,  more work on browsers in OZ might help pull people out of the ease of having NF and opera 'right there."

My 6000 is on sharprom/tetsu-kernel/PW instead of OZ mostly because of the simplicity of the sharp networking applet on the 6k (and a few other minor things).  OZ would have been the preferred choice for it, but using oZ on a 6k is just a litttle bit less convenient.  I think there might be a lot of this going on....

I hope this helps?
*


I wasn't debating the usefullness of PW on sharprom or cacko, I was asking why people would use PW on top of OZ. So for we have only had one usefull response to our questions and that was OOo, all other complainer go on and on about 'OMG 16.000 .debs l0lz0rs' or don't answer at all. PW is a godsent for sharprom and cacko users, but has very few advantages running on top of OZ.

I guess I'll have to rephrase it again:

'If you are running OZ and are using PW, what are you using it for and have you checked whether OZ can provide it natively'

We (the developers) want to help, but were having a *&()%&*#*%#*& time getting straight (or remotely usefull) answers out of the users.
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adf
post Jul 8 2006, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE(koen @ Jul 8 2006, 08:27 PM)
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 8 2006, 07:24 PM)
"As hrw and I asked multiple times before: Could you please tell us what you need from PW so we can add that to OZ natively? It seems a bit wastefull and backwards to layer an entire OS on top of OZ for one or two apps.

PS: reponses like "OMG!!!!1!! Debian has m0r3 p4ck4g3s, duh..." are NOT helpfull"

er... ok.
there are a few things.

On the 6000, for example, the stock network applet is easier to use if one connects to multiple networks (not strictly a PW thing, but it affects people's choices)

Some hope of getting firefox plugins (like Java, Mplayer-plugin and gpl-flash). Not really hapnin' on pw outta the box, workin pdaX and pdaXqt and surely conceivable on PW.

openoffice (don't know if that works in gpe)

Honestly, though, I think the real reason people do this is isn't so much what pocketworkstation has that OZ doesn't, but what can be easily and coveniently done in the sharprom "behind" it while still having an X based desktop-type linux.  Things like usb networking, multiple hotspots, etc (meanie has a good list on his site) are a snap in sharprom, and are long threads for gpe, you know?  I think if the usb, networking, (and package manager) applets, some easy plugins for firefox, (a working network applet on the 6k) and maybe a thing or two more (again see meanie's list--short, but clear) were tweaked you'd see more of a migration to OZ..
Also, while Netfront and Opera have their shortcomings,  more work on browsers in OZ might help pull people out of the ease of having NF and opera 'right there."

My 6000 is on sharprom/tetsu-kernel/PW instead of OZ mostly because of the simplicity of the sharp networking applet on the 6k (and a few other minor things).  OZ would have been the preferred choice for it, but using oZ on a 6k is just a litttle bit less convenient.  I think there might be a lot of this going on....

I hope this helps?
*


I wasn't debating the usefullness of PW on sharprom or cacko, I was asking why people would use PW on top of OZ. So for we have only had one usefull response to our questions and that was OOo, all other complainer go on and on about 'OMG 16.000 .debs l0lz0rs' or don't answer at all. PW is a godsent for sharprom and cacko users, but has very few advantages running on top of OZ.

I guess I'll have to rephrase it again:

'If you are running OZ and are using PW, what are you using it for and have you checked whether OZ can provide it natively'

We (the developers) want to help, but were having a *&()%&*#*%#*& time getting straight (or remotely usefull) answers out of the users.
*



LOL.. because they got used to PW and wanted a better kernel and an X-server? Personally i don't really see the advantage of using PW on top of OZ... Not what it is meant for imho.
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koen
post Jul 8 2006, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(adf @ Jul 8 2006, 09:22 PM)
Personally i don't really see the advantage of using PW on top of OZ...  Not what it is meant for imho.
*


+1 smile.gif
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omro
post Jul 8 2006, 01:50 PM
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Might be an idea to start a new thread with your question as the topic?

Allows people to answer it without thinking about this thread in their answer.
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pgas
post Jul 8 2006, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE
'If you are running OZ and are using PW, what are you using it for and have you checked whether OZ can provide it natively'

We (the developers) want to help, but were having a *&()%&*#*%#*& time getting straight (or remotely usefull) answers out of the users.


- We (the users) sometimes (most of the times) just want to try some things on our Z or use them at some point but don't feel like to bother you (the developers) with something we know we are probably not gonna use for long. For instance I have used erlang from debian, I could tell you erlang is not readily available for OZ and is in debian, but if you build it, I m probably not gonna try your package.

- We (the users) don't have the HW/bandwidth/time/competence (you name it) to setup OE and build software with it. So even if we know X is available as "can be build" with OE, it's far more simple to have PW set up on our Z and to do apt-get install X. I know if it's in OE we can ask hrw, but then we go back to my first point.

Now, if you just want to collect some suggestions about packages not built for OZ and that people might want because they have tried them with debian, here is my personal list: emacs-x11 (there is a package without X) erlang hugs mozart ocaml guile (to try to learn different languages and to run examples from books)
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