OESF | ELSI | pdaXrom | OpenZaurus | Zaurus Themes | Community Links | Ibiblio

IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Guylhem Rom: First Qtopia 1.5 Release
guylhem
post May 7 2005, 06:50 PM
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 577
Joined: 17-March 04
Member No.: 2,365



Hello

The first "end user ready" release is being uploaded. It features a nice GUI and should work out of the box (no command line special knowledge should be necessary)

Get it on: http://externe.net/zaurus/guylhem-rom/

The only bugs I could find (and honnestly, they are not serious drawbacks) are:
- some remaining keyboard remapping (power/record are used like a jogdial, but should also be able to start applications - they can't yet)
- the network application refuses to add new interfaces. So I replaced the usual netsetup by a different one I compiled and I created a "Get online" icon, which can be used to create a new connection, before using the network application (that's the only if you really want to use the old one called netsetup.old). I have no idea why it doesn't work :-( Trolltech version works fine, Sharp doesn't. Any help would be welcome

If you feel like giving a try, your feedback would be very welcome. What you get :
- a polished qtopia 1.5 rom loaded with applications
- a cleaned filesystem (no symlinks everywhere)
- 24 Mb free to add your own applications (I doubt you'll need them - it's *loaded* with applications, basically every app I use is there, PIM, Hancom, Opera, etc etc.)

What's new since last version :
- added qtopia 1.5 interface
- made sure it worked well
- fixed the zoom/systemtime bugs reported in the standalone qtopia packages.

What's missing :
- special modules used by special card. If you have such a card, please tell me or adf so we can compile your missing module for you

To install it, simply restore the nandbackup. That's all. On reboot, you may see jffs2 errors - that's normal. It's just very verbose. You are presented with a login: if you log in, qtopia won't start. Press home twice to open another console. Press userkey/light to move between consoles. You must log out of every shell so Qtopia may start 30 seconds later. However the keyboard may not be usable if you didn't return to the first console. So if you want to use qtopia, simply don't log in.

Anyway, let's start the beta test ! I'm also preparing a dedicated feed for the ROM. If you have a .ipk that works fine and you think should be interesting to other people, please send me a URL where I can download it and add it to the feed.

If you think some application should be included by default, please tell me too. I'd like to create a "different" rom, very user oriented. Everything should be simple and work out of the box - the apps. I did choose tend to do that.

Guylhem
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
guylhem
post May 15 2005, 05:29 AM
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 577
Joined: 17-March 04
Member No.: 2,365



Hello

Regarding the keymap, I tried to match as closely as possible a standard pc keyboard, to avoid problems when using different kind of keyboards (external internal etc). A 100% match was not possible because in qtopia keycode 30=Fn is hardcoded, while on a pc keyboard keycode 30=A. So I used keycode 125 (left window) for A, and 30 for FN. Besides that it's a 100% pc keyboard. Specials keys (ex: Address, Home, Power...) have been remapped to F1->F12 so you can use them with a standard PC keyboard and pocket-pc keyboard (IIRC pocketpsc have a similar F1->F12 remapping for their special keys). Please read driver/char/tosa_rawmap.h and the tosa_keymap.map if you need more details.

It may sound like a big hack but it's the cleanest possible solution. With qtopia 2.1 the 125/30 difference will go and it'll be a 100% standard pc keymap.

So if you have keyboard problems now, 2 solutions :
- only a doesn't work: this means you are using a standard pc table. swap 125 and 30 in the source code of your applications
- most keys don't work as they should : this means you are using a dead beat zaurus table. Use a standard pc table instead. Can't help much :-(

I'll try to look into vnc issues. I've added keypebble as requested. The fbvncserver removal notes maybe should go in the FAQ? I'll edit the postrm scripts to add that to make sure it uninstalls cleanly.

As for interfaces and applications, I don't want to dictate my choice but I think I'm quite close to the truth (if there's any :-) - that qtopia is the solution, and end users applications should be provided. More could be provided - integrating perl is certainly possible, but IMHO since it's a language people who need it certainly know how to do "ipkg install".

I'd like to minimise the complexity of using this rom for most people. This means that big hacks (ex: moving Qtopia to the SD, etc) will not be configured by default, but I'll do everything I can to help them: I wouldn't want such hacks to damage normal interfaction with the ROM (no boot questions : reflash and it works :-)

A good possibility for other UI would be using different directories in /opt which could be mounted to external medias. If you guys can create a Qtopia 2.1, GPE, PdaXrom tarball that simply requires untarring and symlinking, I'll be happy to provide them with the ROM, along with instructions on how to use that. adf, if you reflash to 2.1 soon, please tar cvf /opt/QtPalmtop or whatever they are using and put the tarball online. I'll try to make it work on the 1.0rc1.

Anyway, this is getting too long :-) I'd like to conclude simply - everybody who wants to participate in the rom, to give a hand, is welcome. [even nice icons are needed for apps which have non VGA icons.] A CVS is not really possible at the moment (to have a big partition, you need to reflash, but once you've used guylhem rom you could certainly do upgrades with simples patches), neither is a simpler "initrd.bin and power+ok" install, but I'll think about what we could do.

I tried to do the initrd.bin etc approach and had big problems with my Z. I lost important data. If I get donations or if I'm offered a spare 6000 to work on the rom, I'll certainly be able to develop much easily, but for now I'd rather play it safe :-)

Maybe it could be a CVS of the root filesystem, so anyone can edit the files and submit modifications ? But IMHO there's not a strong demand. I haven't received many patches. I'll post the root filesystem for 1.0rc1 online soon, with installations instructions for those who want to hack. But IMHO a nand reflash is much much better (you're sure it will always work)

Anyway I'm open. Please tell me how you think the development should go, and if you like the roadmap. As adf said, I'm not quite satisfied by opie/oe/oz. I've to publish an editorial (soon - really :-) on my thoughts, but basically 1) braking binary compatibility is bad 2) shipping unfinished/untested distributions is worse 3) imposing developpers/contributors to use the entire buildsystem weighting several Gb is like telling them "please don't contribute".
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
CoreDump
post May 15 2005, 06:14 AM
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 715
Joined: 25-July 04
From: .de
Member No.: 4,094



QUOTE
Anyway I'm open. Please tell me how you think the development should go, and if you like the roadmap. As adf said, I'm not quite satisfied by opie/oe/oz. I've to publish an editorial (soon - really :-) on my thoughts, but basically 1) braking binary compatibility is bad


Actually, in this case it is good. Good as in a 100-300% floating point performance increase and overall faster application launch times. Anyone who has used a Sharp ROM who now uses an OZ ROM knows what I'm talking about.

QUOTE
2) shipping unfinished/untested distributions is worse


The current OZ branch is labled "unstable" for a reason.

QUOTE
3) imposing developpers/contributors to use the entire buildsystem weighting several Gb is like telling them "please don't contribute".


I beg to differ.
CODE
+mhentges@oe-head:~/OpenEmbedded/bitbake >du
262M    .
+mhentges@oe-head:~/OpenEmbedded/bitbake >


The full uncompressed build environment is about 260MB (snapshot from today, FWIW), not "several GB".

However, it appears to be logical that one needs to compile all dependencies in order to build a certain application. The build environment will do that automatically for you.

Maybe you were talking about the HDD space consumed by upstream sources and binary packages including all dependecies?

CODE
+mhentges@chroot01:~/OpenEmbedded >du sources/  tmp
1,3G    sources/
5,8G    tmp


This is the disc-space required to build an opie-image and to compile about 80% of all available opie apps in OE. Opie-Image alone shoud be well below 3GB

If you can't spare a lousy 3-5GB w/ todays HDDs prices you are indeed out of luck. But that is hardly the fault of OE or OZ.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
guylhem
post May 15 2005, 09:04 AM
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 577
Joined: 17-March 04
Member No.: 2,365



QUOTE(CoreDump @ May 15 2005, 06:14 AM)
QUOTE
Anyway I'm open. Please tell me how you think the development should go, and if you like the roadmap. As adf said, I'm not quite satisfied by opie/oe/oz. I've to publish an editorial (soon - really :-) on my thoughts, but basically 1) braking binary compatibility is bad


Actually, in this case it is good. Good as in a 100-300% floating point performance increase and overall faster application launch times. Anyone who has used a Sharp ROM who now uses an OZ ROM knows what I'm talking about.


That's right. It's much better. But at the same time, you are using a different sync method, not providing libsl equivalents etc. etc. so compatibility is broken at multiple levels. That's sharp fault for imposing libsl and other oddities, but there should be an intelligent workaround.

I mean, using softfloat is not the problem by itself - softfloat is good ! Mostly for the binaries which can take advantage of it, say mplayer. In fact, they could use LD_PRELOAD while the rest of the system would stay in hardfloat until a good solution is found (zync was very promising) to be 100% sharp compatible where it matters.

QUOTE(CoreDump @ May 15 2005, 06:14 AM)
QUOTE
2) shipping unfinished/untested distributions is worse


The current OZ branch is labled "unstable" for a reason.


Then don't ship it and don't announce it. Or ship it without GUI (I did that :-) - it prevents end users from giving it a try when they shouldn't. If you don't do any of that, people will install it and complain.

QUOTE(CoreDump @ May 15 2005, 06:14 AM)
QUOTE
3) imposing developpers/contributors to use the entire buildsystem weighting several Gb is like telling them "please don't contribute".


If you can't spare a lousy 3-5GB w/ todays HDDs prices you are indeed out of luck. But that is hardly the fault of OE or OZ.
*



I can't. And it's OE fault, unless there's a misterious "bitbake offer me a new HD" option I don't know. Go to externe.net/zaurus/sdk. You'll have the 2.95 toolchain and 1.5 qtopia in less than 200 Megs- so you can do differently.

Just give me the same for OE ! All I'm asking in the 3.4 toolchain and the /opt/Opie. I don't want everything else. Hell - just give me the 3.4 toolchain for x86 in a tarball and I'll be happy :-)

I've been asking that for weeks. I don't want the crosstools script version, I want your version. Why is it nowhere on the website to download? Why could nobody offer me a tarball? I really don't have 2 Gb. In fact I have 155 Mb free at the moment on my 40 Gb disk. And I won't purchase additional space - because I don't need it, except if I want to play with OE.

Don't get me wrong. OE is impressive, and you are doing great things. But I think it could be even better if little modifications were done - the ones suggested above, and (flame flame) dropping opie and moving to qtopia 2.1 while fixing/porting apps to use it!

You know the motto : destroying is the easiest, creating is harder, maintaining/fixing is the most complicated. The hard work is on making something compatible while fixing issues at the same time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hbo
post May 15 2005, 10:50 AM
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 95
Joined: 5-March 05
Member No.: 6,576



QUOTE(guylhem @ May 15 2005, 09:04 AM)
QUOTE(CoreDump @ May 15 2005, 06:14 AM)
QUOTE
2) shipping unfinished/untested distributions is worse


The current OZ branch is labled "unstable" for a reason.


Then don't ship it and don't announce it. Or ship it without GUI (I did that :-) - it prevents end users from giving it a try when they shouldn't. If you don't do any of that, people will install it and complain.


*



They did that:
http://www.openzaurus.org/official/unstabl...41.rootfs.jffs2

I'm annoyed by basic things not working in Opie 1.2, but I make allowances for the fact that it's a development release. (I do think they have been unwilling or unable for a long time to produce a "stable" release, but that's another matter.) I give you the benefit of the same doubt. There are even more basic things broken in 0.9, but I'm not complaining: I'm contributing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
guylhem   Guylhem Rom: First Qtopia 1.5 Release   May 7 2005, 06:50 PM
adf   Getting it now this should be excellent. XQT com...   May 7 2005, 11:03 PM
adf   killer splash screen tree explorer? or advancedfm...   May 7 2005, 11:35 PM
eddiectc   Great rom! Just tried, very usable! Now p...   May 8 2005, 03:25 AM
guylhem   Regarding the splash screen - believe it or not bu...   May 8 2005, 05:07 AM
eddiectc   the link to get the opera 7.5 http://www14.softwar...   May 9 2005, 03:46 AM
rip   what a fuck...ing time it should took you for such...   May 8 2005, 12:27 PM
adf   a small issue. when trying to install packages, s...   May 8 2005, 01:28 PM
guylhem   Hello rip- it tooks a long long time. A grand tot...   May 8 2005, 02:58 PM
adf   fixed both easily. thnx. gott play around with th...   May 8 2005, 04:55 PM
rip   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 8 2005, 10:58 PM)adf - re...   May 10 2005, 04:21 AM
adf   QUOTE(rip @ May 10 2005, 12:21 PM)QUOTE(guylh...   May 10 2005, 07:39 AM
adf   I can click on the battery f i am in qtopia. If n...   May 10 2005, 07:55 AM
rip   it's simple, really. just su and do mkdir /mnt...   May 10 2005, 11:01 AM
adf   [quote=rip,May 10 2005, 07:01 PM] it's simple,...   May 10 2005, 12:50 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 10 2005, 12:50 PM)0 .0 it...   May 12 2005, 12:19 PM
adf   QUOTE(hbo @ May 12 2005, 08:19 PM)QUOTE(adf ...   May 12 2005, 12:48 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 12 2005, 12:48 PM)QUOTE(hbo ...   May 12 2005, 06:08 PM
ken   Guylhem, When you have a chance, could you post t...   May 12 2005, 07:00 PM
adf   hmmm.... ok If you want an os on the microdrive, ...   May 12 2005, 07:38 PM
adf   I heard back for Klauss W. on the keymap thing. he...   May 12 2005, 09:11 PM
adf   QUOTE(adf @ May 13 2005, 05:11 AM)I heard bac...   May 12 2005, 09:16 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 12 2005, 09:16 PM)[btw so far...   May 12 2005, 09:30 PM
adf   except.... Qtopia 2.1 is based on what I think is ...   May 12 2005, 09:35 PM
hbo   It should be doable. I wonder what start/stop daem...   May 12 2005, 09:59 PM
adf   lmao.... I was wondering that too. I guess we try...   May 12 2005, 10:23 PM
hbo   On my collie I have OZ 3.5.3/Opie 1.2 and nxclient...   May 12 2005, 10:39 PM
hbo   Last one for tonight. So I was wrong about it de...   May 12 2005, 10:45 PM
adf   can we get the source? I hadn't looked. It co...   May 12 2005, 10:55 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 12 2005, 07:38 PM)hmmm.... ok...   May 12 2005, 09:14 PM
gfdsa   opera_sl-5x00-7.30.9965_arm.ipk installs cleanly, ...   May 9 2005, 05:32 AM
kahm   QUOTE(gfdsa @ May 9 2005, 07:32 AM)opera_sl-5...   May 9 2005, 10:27 AM
systemparadox   WOW! A ROM for a 6k? I must be dreaming. Well,...   May 9 2005, 07:16 AM
rip   done straight forward, all stuff works, wifi also ...   May 9 2005, 09:16 AM
rip   pb i think, i cant install anything to sd or cf, i...   May 9 2005, 11:22 AM
ken   Guylhem, Thought I'd clean up your README fil...   May 9 2005, 12:20 PM
ken   Bug List (Qtopia GUI): ---------------------------...   May 9 2005, 02:32 PM
adf   You could just mount the sd card manually, or edit...   May 9 2005, 08:05 PM
gab74   i'm testing the rom...and things works well......   May 10 2005, 12:05 AM
guylhem   ken, Thanks a lot for the readme. I'll use it...   May 10 2005, 12:06 AM
ken   >for me if I can't find a play to have both...   May 10 2005, 02:00 AM
gfdsa   very good job guylhem, tried yesterday, without me...   May 10 2005, 01:05 AM
rip   wep key 40 bits entered and surfing ok, qtopia de...   May 10 2005, 02:30 AM
ken   I suppose I could compare the network settings tha...   May 10 2005, 03:19 AM
rip   another little pb, the file browser after a reboot...   May 10 2005, 04:11 AM
gfdsa   no unicode fonts btw, had to copy files from Qtopi...   May 10 2005, 07:47 AM
rip   i appologize for my incompetence, but witch /tmp h...   May 11 2005, 05:26 AM
gfdsa   add/remove applet ? how to get there? i have all ...   May 11 2005, 05:51 AM
rip   well, sorry, windows typology rests.... icon name...   May 11 2005, 07:02 AM
adf   if you are in a console in qtopia there is, effect...   May 11 2005, 07:14 AM
adf   IRK. the "a" key on my ir keyboard does...   May 11 2005, 01:55 PM
adf   QUOTE(adf @ May 11 2005, 09:55 PM)IRK. the ...   May 11 2005, 01:57 PM
guylhem   installating in other places besides internal flas...   May 11 2005, 05:52 PM
ken   >installating in other places besides internal ...   May 11 2005, 06:16 PM
adf   I had wondered about the usb thing after I posted ...   May 11 2005, 06:27 PM
adf   doing a fastffpe kernel with the usb fix btw? and...   May 11 2005, 08:42 PM
guylhem   Hello ken : if ipkg.conf doesn't help, I...   May 12 2005, 06:31 AM
adf   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 12 2005, 02:31 PM)Hello ...   May 12 2005, 07:40 AM
rip   this quick post to ask if its not a good idea to i...   May 12 2005, 07:38 AM
gfdsa   speaking of multiple guis, one of the ideas that i...   May 12 2005, 08:27 AM
adf   absolutely. i'd love to see this quingy workin...   May 12 2005, 08:54 AM
gfdsa   thats the idea, adf, i did not advance lately, my ...   May 12 2005, 10:35 AM
bear426   Will this work on the SLC 3000? If it does, and s...   May 12 2005, 12:45 PM
guylhem   adf - I don't need 2.95 toolchain - already go...   May 12 2005, 11:29 PM
adf   I'll have to look again, lmy last "soluti...   May 13 2005, 07:44 AM
hbo   I reflashed this evening with the 0.9 release. As...   May 13 2005, 05:12 PM
adf   home key to open a new terminal. maybe you should...   May 13 2005, 09:16 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 13 2005, 09:16 PM)maybe you s...   May 13 2005, 10:32 PM
ken   QUOTE(hbo @ May 13 2005, 03:12 PM)Is there a ...   May 13 2005, 09:21 PM
guylhem   A wiki is ready on externe.net/zaurus/faq. It...   May 14 2005, 05:54 AM
hbo   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 14 2005, 05:54 AM)A wiki ...   May 14 2005, 10:54 AM
guylhem   Please do ! That's the purpose of the wiki...   May 14 2005, 11:02 AM
adf   another reason for an install script or two imho. ...   May 14 2005, 11:22 AM
hbo   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 14 2005, 11:02 AM)Please ...   May 14 2005, 03:11 PM
ken   QUOTE(hbo @ May 14 2005, 01:11 PM)I created a...   May 14 2005, 04:48 PM
hbo   QUOTE(ken @ May 14 2005, 04:48 PM)I'm sur...   May 14 2005, 05:39 PM
adf   ultimately, I agree. a choice of guis, and the fle...   May 14 2005, 05:48 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 14 2005, 05:48 PM)ultimately,...   May 14 2005, 06:34 PM
ken   QUOTE(adf @ May 14 2005, 05:48 PM)ultimately,...   May 14 2005, 08:03 PM
hbo   QUOTE(ken @ May 14 2005, 08:03 PM)QUOTE(adf ...   May 14 2005, 09:08 PM
adf   nah... Guylhem is doing great stuff with the defa...   May 14 2005, 09:02 PM
hbo   QUOTE(adf @ May 14 2005, 09:02 PM)... My fir...   May 14 2005, 09:20 PM
adf   actually, i tend to do 600l configs a bit differen...   May 14 2005, 11:10 PM
hbo   Got it regarding the relationship of this ROM to O...   May 14 2005, 11:29 PM
hbo   Well, I got to remember how to recover from uninst...   May 15 2005, 12:26 AM
guylhem   adf, to swap 125 and 30 you need to edit the sourc...   May 14 2005, 11:05 AM
guylhem   I fixed /tmp ipkg problems using /home/tmp in /etc...   May 14 2005, 11:55 AM
adf   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 14 2005, 07:55 PM)Regardi...   May 14 2005, 11:58 AM
adf   QUOTE(adf @ May 14 2005, 07:58 PM)QUOTE(guylh...   May 14 2005, 12:02 PM
ken   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 14 2005, 09:55 AM)I fixed...   May 14 2005, 02:00 PM
hbo   QUOTE(ken @ May 14 2005, 02:00 PM)QUOTE(guylh...   May 14 2005, 03:22 PM
hbo   I'm thinking about a flexible base system on t...   May 14 2005, 03:27 PM
guylhem   Hello Regarding the keymap, I tried to match as c...   May 15 2005, 05:29 AM
CoreDump   QUOTEAnyway I'm open. Please tell me how you t...   May 15 2005, 06:14 AM
guylhem   QUOTE(CoreDump @ May 15 2005, 06:14 AM)QUOTEA...   May 15 2005, 09:04 AM
adf   you have mail ( I think)   May 15 2005, 09:29 AM
hbo   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 15 2005, 09:04 AM)QUOTE(C...   May 15 2005, 10:50 AM
hbo   QUOTE(guylhem @ May 15 2005, 05:29 AM)So if y...   May 15 2005, 07:33 AM
Mickeyl   [deleted]   May 15 2005, 05:50 AM
guylhem   Honnestly, there's no best way I know. Breakin...   May 15 2005, 08:47 AM
2 Pages V   1 2 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 26th November 2014 - 04:19 PM