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xjqian
post Jun 10 2005, 12:22 AM
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certainly search could be imporved as discussed in this link

another big problem for me is from a package's page, I have to click the following to download a package

1. Latest (version)1.4.1
2. Click Here to download this release.
3. ROMs: Blah, blah...
4. All the required libraries are accounted for. Click Here to download DmBlogger.

This is very very inconvenient (even on a desktop). much worse than the simple one click in ZSI

Can't somebody just move all the links for different ROMs (#3) to and display them in the package's page. Then a single click will solve it all.
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pgas
post Jun 10 2005, 12:32 AM
Post #17





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QUOTE
I just don't understand the comment that ELSI is "much too PDAXROM orientated". I just don't see that...


As a matter of fact I don't think elsi contains a single pdaxrom package.
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dhns
post Jun 10 2005, 12:55 AM
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As I had stated in the ELSIX forum, my primary concern is about the front page:

make it as clearly arranged as killefiz or http://www.macupdate.com

All other proposals for improvement are important, but on a lower priority.

Now comes the crucial question: dz has asked for developers, help, and support
And there is nobody saying yes, great, I'll do it (not even myself). We are just reporting more bugs and making new suggestions...

So, we all participate in this project as users who want this and that.

What are the reasons? Here my personal list of thoughts:
* I have other (Zaurus and Macintosh) projects running with high priority (non-web-oriented)
* I don't want to set up a development environment on my development system
* how would I do that? I probably need a fresh mySQL database.
* But is there demo content? How would I be able to test with an empty database.
* How to configure (change the PHP code) to use my local database?
* I have some experience with PHP, but I always find it difficult to understand PHP code not written by me
* has the original author enough time to explain how things are working? Is it well documented? Modifying code can be done only after understanding it
* I should register with Sourceforge and the project to be able to contribute
* what is the process of approving/publishing changes I make? Do I have to ask offroadgeek and dz first (that might be the origin of the idea "let's make a new database" - wanting to have control over everything)

So, there are some barriers to jump on that project - even if it is openly available on Sourceforge.

-- hns
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ken
post Jun 10 2005, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE(xjqian @ Jun 9 2005, 10:22 PM)
4. All the required libraries are accounted for. Click Here to download DmBlogger.


actually, the weird entry for dmblogger is my fault. It's the first time I added a package, and I wanted to make sure people knew about the package, but am still working out the details. I wasn't sure if the translation for 1.3.1 would work, and haven't had time to investigate it. I listed the various dependencies so people would be aware of it. I made sure the link to the dependencies as well as the package itself was there, to make it easier.

I'm still trying to figure it all out, so please bear with the entry I made (I'm not the author, but felt adding it would be useful).
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allanjard
post Jun 10 2005, 02:54 AM
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Hi all,

There seems to be a very definite split opinion about the elsi. General consensus is that the current site could be quite vastly improved. Please don't think I'm knocking all the hard work that has already been put into it - I'm not - I appreciate it and what the developers have done smile.gif. But there are two camps about whether to remake it or continue developing the current one.

I've downloaded the CVS of the site (thanks for pointing that out dz) and had a look at the code. It is indeed very tidy, but it it a totally different style from my own, so it will take me a little bit to get used to it and start making any changes.

On the other hand - starting again (using the same database...) would probably take just as long to get a working site. But it has the advantage of integrating new features at the start - rather than bolting them on.

I have to also admit I'm not a huge fan of the elsi's ui. I agree that something simpler is required - where information can be easily accessed, quickly.

A
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dz
post Jun 10 2005, 03:18 AM
Post #21


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Ok, so from what it seems, the major gripes with the elsi are the UI and the search. I hope these aren't the only grounds for scrapping the entire site and starting fresh.

The elsi can easily have a new ui. The front page can easily be slimmed down.

The reason that it takes a lot to submit a project is because when we first started the elsi, the whole goal was to make it very easy for users to download a project. A feature, that isn't used and can be pulled I suppose, is the one where a user can go to download a project and get a link to all the libraries required. This feature was something everyone wanted at first, and now that it's implemented, noone's using it. I can take that out.

As far as fixing the search, that's something that can be worked on. I just implemented a quick and easy search that worked for the time being.

A direct link to download the latest version is something that I can include on the front project page as well.

Regardless, all of these are easy fixes and I don't really think it's worth scrapping the entire thing instead of implementing the fixes.
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allanjard
post Jun 10 2005, 05:49 AM
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QUOTE
Regardless, all of these are easy fixes and I don't really think it's worth scrapping the entire thing instead of implementing the fixes.


Fair enough. One of the reasons I suggested starting again was because I am opposed to the idea of bolting on extra features - I prefer actually designing them in from the start. Also - although I haven't actually seen the back end, from what little I can make out of it from the site, I have a few ideas which may help package maintainers, and incourage them to use the site.

It seems to me that not many people are actually aware of the site, and even fewer acutally use it...

A
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offroadgeek
post Jun 10 2005, 06:59 AM
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QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 10 2005, 05:49 AM)
It seems to me that not many people are actually aware of the site, and even fewer acutally use it...

A
*

I beg to differ. I would bet that most of the Zaurus community, except for maybe some newbies at least know about ELSI. But actual usage of it might be a different story. At least the ELSI is getting new application/project submissions in recent monts.
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ken
post Jun 10 2005, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE(dz @ Jun 10 2005, 01:18 AM)
The reason that it takes a lot to submit a project is because when we first started the elsi, the whole goal was to make it very easy for users to download a project.  A feature, that isn't used and can be pulled I suppose, is the one where a user can go to download a project and get a link to all the libraries required.  This feature was


Sort of, I think. It's desireable from the standpoint of trying to figure out what's what. If the author of the page sufficiently documents what's needed, then that basically addresses that issue. I will say though it was quite a lot of questions that had to be addressed.

Killefiz had pics and a quick way to see what's what, and the search was also quick. Essentially it was simple to find what I needed.

Once I found what was needed, then I had 2 issues. Could it run alone, and if not, what was needed. That part became part of the expected things.

As long as the dependencies were listed, it was fairly trivial. Sometimes I had to hunt for a certain version of things. Which is where the forums became great for.

The effort is appreciated, very much so. I think for killefiz's site it was just having some kind of mechanism to remove the junk that it lacked. Oh, and also the question of when he had time to update things. Overall I really did like how he did it. Simple to see a lot of things (I loved that one line thing per item) and if I was really interested in it, then I could look at it, and see a screenshot or a few screenshots. Having a single line at that point to tell me additional info, like what roms (optional) or what Z (optional) would have been nice. Other than that, I was fairly happy with it.

I should mention that I still actively use his site a lot when trying to find something. If he would apply me to edit things, I'd probably happily update things there (I was sad when he stopped all updates).
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allanjard
post Jun 10 2005, 05:47 PM
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Okay this is how I see it from this thread - the elsi is not what the community wants - major changes are needed in how it works and what it does. The developers think that the next step should build upon what is currently there, and the community at large doesn't really care as long as it does what they require.

I'm very interested in helping to build up a repository for Zaurus software - so I'm confused so to whether I should start work on a new one to replace elsi, or help develop the old one, if the developers will let me help out.

dz and offroadgeek: are you guys going to have time to work on the site? I know your time is pressured (as it is for us all) - but if you are going to work on the site, then I would like to work with you. If however, you are going to be able to do very little development I think it makes sense to start again. At least to build a small prototype and see what people think.

Thanks
Allan
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offroadgeek
post Jun 10 2005, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 10 2005, 05:47 PM)
Okay this is how I see it from this thread - the elsi is not what the community wants - major changes are needed in how it works and what it does. The developers think that the next step should build upon what is currently there, and the community at large doesn't really care as long as it does what they require.

I'm very interested in helping to build up a repository for Zaurus software - so I'm confused so to whether I should start work on a new one to replace elsi, or help develop the old one, if the developers will let me help out.

dz and offroadgeek: are you guys going to have time to work on the site? I know your time is pressured (as it is for us all) - but if you are going to work on the site, then I would like to work with you. If however, you are going to be able to do very little development I think it makes sense to start again. At least to build a small prototype and see what people think.

Thanks
Allan
*

It's funny you say that.... too bad you weren't around when the ELSI was first built (not that long ago). Roy (dz) got tons of feedback from the community as to what we all wanted, and that's what was developed.

From this thread, it seems that the majority of people are looking for a simple interface. I don't see why you (working with Roy and maybe others) can't just build a new slimmer interface for the ELSI? The database and structure that Roy built is rock solid.

Personally I don't think the project submission (for project owners/maintainers) should be too simple. That was one of the challenges with the ZSI. It's nice to be able to have multiple revisions on there (even though some are only interested in the latest). That said, I do agree that the initial page UI should be simple and clean, and allow users to be able to download an IPK with just a few clicks. This could easily be accomplished by having a "shortcut" link that bypasses the various questions and points to the latest release for a particular rom. And if someone want's to check to make sure they have all the necessary libs, they can click a link that takes them down a different (slightly more complicated) path.

Roy and I are partners in the OESF (soon to be non profit that oversees the ZUG, OESF site and forums, and the ELSI. Roy is a developer (obviously) and I am not (I'm better at other things, what those are I've yet to figure out...).

I think it would be great if you could help with the ELSI. I can easlily set you up with a dev ELSI site and db with full control.

Before you decide to create something from scratch, why don't you take a peek at the ELSI source as well as the backend db and structure. Then maybe the three of us can talk and see what you think...
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allanjard
post Jun 11 2005, 01:15 AM
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Hi offroadgeek/

That sounds like a great idea. I'd very much like to help out. I think that I personally would find an improved site very useful and hopefully other will to. A dev site where I can mess around with things sounds perfect for testing things out and seeing what we've got. smile.gif

Thanks
Allan
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ken
post Jun 11 2005, 09:55 AM
Post #28





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ok, one more thing that I think elsix needs.

I notice that there doesn't seem to be a way (not that I've found) to update the changelog (no edit access). I think it appeared if I was adding a project, but after that, I couldn't get to that option.

After I had made a submission, I discovered that I had neglected to add a date, which I felt would be useful to the information I had put in the changelog, and noticed I was stuck and couldn't do it.

I've been slowly updating the website, now that I've been given some access. Updating screenshots takes a long time (I've mostly done the "travel" section) and trying to find broken links, etc.

One more feature it needs is to add multiple images (which killefiz had).

Also, I've been seeing this error whenever I add a new package:

Warning: mysql_result(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /public/vhost/e/elsix/html/mod.php on line 421
If what you see below is acceptable, please scroll down and click on 'Done'.

Also, I've noticed that I can't really fix broken links by removing them completely or the package completely. I can only do this to new entries, not ones that are dead and in the system for a while.

note: each edit requires a lot of steps to make even a single change. Something more raw in interface for edits would be great. I find myself going back again and again to how killefiz's system was. If we could somehow convince him to let us edit the existing database he has (having the pics would help immensely). I wouldn't mind taking the time to clean up his database. New entries are easy to spot, as he keeps track of the order things are done. It may seem more work to remove spam entries, but that's the price one tends to pay for opening things up. I'm okay with that, as long as I'd be able to remove such things.

Having to scroll through so much screen is hard on people with smaller screens.

There is so much more positive that killefiz's system has than negatives. Is there not something that we can do regarding it?
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allanjard
post Jun 12 2005, 03:07 PM
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Hi guys,

Okay - I'm really looking forward to working on this - however... I'm going to be away on holiday this coming week. Please keep suggestions coming into me: allan.jardine { No AT spam } sprypanel.com, or here - and I'll take as many on board as possible. When I get back next week I'll combine it all together and give you all feedback as to what I think I'll do, and get more feedback from you guys... etc etc.

Thanks
Allan
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Cresho
post Jun 14 2005, 11:42 PM
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you guys are going at it the wrong way!

what you need to do is get killer filez working or updating or what ever. its been there for years and all we need to do is ask the owner if we can help out!

it's perfect!

we dont need a website running from a home...It needs to be a real server.

we need something that is familiar and has been around for a long time.

and we need someone to dive in there once in a while to touch up the files and also create subdivisions for c1000, c3000, sl5500....etc.

and this killerfilez is number one in google search engine when you search zaurus. it is convenient.

opening and redooing and subdividint and splitting like the roms is just dividing up the community.


Since this community is so small, we do not need to subdivide, change, redoo nothing. just enhance what we have and make it work.

killer filez is the central output for files and should remain. No house servers no nothing.

lets just help out the dude whos running it and im willing to put some time behind it.

ohh...im at work btw so i didnt read through the thread!
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