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> Make A Ranking ?!, Hardware Ranking; what is important ?
zmiq2
post Aug 20 2006, 10:16 AM
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For nice and standard modularity (as much standrad as compact flash is an standard) I have always liked the design these folks have at:

http://www.cdatas.com/

It's interesting, underperformed at the moment.
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iamasmith
post Aug 20 2006, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Aug 20 2006, 06:16 PM)
For nice and standard modularity (as much standrad as compact flash is an standard) I have always liked the design these folks have at:

http://www.cdatas.com/

It's interesting, underperformed at the moment.
*


Yeah, that looks neat for some things. It is somewhat limited to what they have built into that CF Computer card though and it seems to be a 68000 with no MMU, hence, uCLinux.

Target market has got to be appliance I think rather than a more functional computer.

-Andy
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Ferret-Simpson
post Aug 20 2006, 12:15 PM
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With the Memory, speed and internal 3d Accelleration. . I think we'd get Quake3 at 640x480. You can on Windows, and windows is hardly an efficient platform!

CFIO IS dead. Cardbus is getting there. CF memory storage is NOT dead, and won't be for some time, because of the large amount of Flash that will fit in a cart, as well as of course the Microdrive (Which is ALOT smaller than an iPod drive.) Top End digital cameras will stick with CFATA, and so there is still a good reason to include it in our PDA.

I can run EVERY game I play on linux desktop, on a Zaurus 3200. . . .

I only ever play kBounce, kAsteroids, and Snes ROMS.
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 21 2006, 03:00 AM
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the CF has alot of issues, i cant just chuck whatever i want on there, for example at a minimum you need the flash, ram and cpu all in the CF card which would be "tight". i have pulled apart a CF card or two and it looks like it could be intresting however i think that a diffrent form factor with higher IO is a better idea

in fact if i mave the phone, wifi and bluetooth to the second stacked module (you do relise that i will have several boards stacked on top of each other) then you could pick and chose, quickly swaping would be a problem but i am all for carefull selection before hand rather than swaping, in my opinion very few people would actually swap the system around on a regular basis

i have seen that link before hawever and it is a good idea if you have the space for it

you high performance camera owners seem to keep coming up all the time, let me ask you this: dosent your nice fancy camera have a usb connection?, and dosent the PP have USB high speed host? the way i figure it, it saves me a huge amount of problems (size and mechanically, those sockets arent exactlly what i would call "small") and is a much better way of handelling the problem (less pulling of cards out of devices which i find can be a bit difficult on a $1000+ Digital SLR camera, normally its easier to flick the cap off of the cameras usb port and plug in
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Ferret-Simpson
post Aug 21 2006, 09:50 AM
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OFCOL. . . No, that's not what we're talking about. Wer're not talking about wanting CFIO, just that CF Flash is good as an internal because it is not dead and won't be any time soon. So we can still BUY new hard disks.
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 21 2006, 10:02 PM
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the only reason i want to use CF internally is that it can have a microdrive attached, if i could get unlimited rewrites on SD then i would have made it boot off of that, i like my swap however with the amount of ram in this thing and the way 2.6 handels its swap compared to2.4 the advantages are less

mabey i should just drop having the CF slot mounted on the PCB but leave the pads in there, it seems like a better solution and would make this thing alot smaller
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Ferret-Simpson
post Aug 23 2006, 03:14 AM
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Oh please don't, I want a PDA with 20GB internal storage. Awww. . .THere's no :twisted: smiley on this board. . . .
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adf
post Aug 23 2006, 09:01 AM
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I really can't picture myself running around with my data storage dangling off my camera on a usb cable, if that is what you are sugggesting.

At this point, I'm not sure what you are sugesting for the pocketpenguin. Do you mean to make the device with 2 external sd slots and no internal storage? or with internal flash soldered to one of the boards? I gather you aren't thrilled with the prospect on including an internal cf/microdrive, but I'm not sure how you'd intend to use the usb to handle storage. It isn't a logical problem, I'm simply wondering what if any internal data storage you intend the device to have.

Personally I like cf microdrives. I rea lize one could get 8 gigs on board with 2 sd cards and arguably consume less power, and that swapping data sd cards and using a usb to connect to external storage would work.... it simply isn't quite what I was expecting.


how hard would it be to make physical (not connected or anything) storage for extra sd cards a part of the case... so that one might pocket the device having 2 sd cards in the sd slots and 2 or more (full of video or audio or maybe games, or some other intermittently used stuff) stashed somewhere in or on the case for easy swapping?

and, yeah, I'd love a 20gig + pda. my 3100 only goes to 14 gigs (4 gig internal + 4 gig sd + 6 gig external cf md) with the stuff I have right now, and I have to disconnnect my cf wireless to do it smile.gif

btw--smaller is good. The device isn't the "wheelbarrow penguin"
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Ferret-Simpson
post Aug 23 2006, 02:06 PM
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hehehe, No, it's the 20GB CF Microdrives that are out "Soon" I'm referring to. Gods damn, I don't mind USB connecting or wifi connecting to my camera if I can copy the images to my 20GB internal CF card!!

I have a poodle, and an XDA Exec (Universal) and those are the two designs I'm thinking to hybridise. Obviously, We've looked at all sorts of things neither have: Accelerometers, 5.1 surround sound. . . But essentially, what's most important for me, is a hybrid of the best bits from the XDA, the best from the poodle, and the bugs removed. . . From the XDA: General layout and rough spec. From the Poodle. . . Linux, multifuction bootloader (Altboot), CompactFlash/MD Storage, Irda (If poss) Lanyard loop, and more useful status indicators.

And ironing out bugs? Like having two cameras on the XDA, and no quick-reference screen. Pull that from the Samsung phones. . One camera, two screens. Another bug? The Torch. . WTH? That should be a burst flash! NOT a weedy LED lamp! The XDA is as solid as my old Clie, so a nice aluminium or Mg alloy case is nice. . .

Heh, I'm a typical consumer. What I want, is what I've got. . With just a few tweaks.
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adf
post Aug 23 2006, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE(Ferret-Simpson @ Aug 23 2006, 10:06 PM)
Heh, I'm a typical consumer. What I want, is what I've got. . With just a few tweaks.
*

I guess that about sums up my position too... a better linux clamshell than my 3100 and one for which software doesn't have to be reverse engineered, or simply guessed at.
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 24 2006, 07:06 AM
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I still like the accelerometer, if you are using a microdrive it could be a lifesaver

what i am suggesting with the camera is that everyone who wants a removable CF card so far has wanted it purely for moving files between thier camera and thier Z, therefore i think the simple solution to that problem would be to use a usb cable.

i do not like the prospect of CF, that much is true however i also want it for the insane storage capacities it offers, making it removable is a nightmare in some ways, it can be done but i dont belive its a good idea for several reasons. besides you can get tiny card readers right wink.gif the solution to my imagined problems is to not alow the CF card to be soldered to the board but have the pinout avalible so that it can be placed into a better spot if you need it
if you are wondering why leaving off the CF might be a good idea, take the hight of the CF card and multiply it by 1.5, thats how much we should lose off the case without CF, hence why flying leads might be a good idea, a specilised daghter boadd may do as well if i juggle the placment of the SD cards and have the high density connector and the SD sockets on the same PCB on the same side (they should be about the same hight, that way if you chose to use CF then at least it uses minimal space

one of the nice things about SD cards is the SPI compatable mode, with this we could connect up to 16 SD cards at a time at reduced speed (like we would notice without 4 bit mode in the kernel)

the way this thing will work at a minimum is that there will be 16MB of flash which this boots off, it then kexecs a kernel and then boots off the new medium, what that might be i do not know, it could be CF, SD, USB, NFS or RAM.
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nevarrie
post Aug 24 2006, 07:49 AM
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QUOTE(adf @ Aug 23 2006, 05:43 PM)
QUOTE(Ferret-Simpson @ Aug 23 2006, 10:06 PM)
Heh, I'm a typical consumer. What I want, is what I've got. . With just a few tweaks.
*

I guess that about sums up my position too... a better linux clamshell than my 3100 and one for which software doesn't have to be reverse engineered, or simply guessed at.
*



I many ways I have to agree that I like the current options if they just had those few tweaks(SL-C3200 with wifi, bluetooth and GSM/EGPRS). That is what I need right now, and with the fact I go through phones and PDAs every year to 2 years that maybe what I need now.

Since I just bought a motorola ming, to me I see the PocketPenguin project as what I will want to get and uses a year or two from now, so my opinions and views may be a little different. Also when I got my sl6k 2 years ago it became my primary computer for almost a year(my ibook replaced it). I do have to say I miss having something as small as my 6k as my primary computer, so I guess I am not a typical consumer either.

Though I really can not say if I would need a device that has 5.1 surrond sound but if I say this as my primary machine what I could hook up to my 42in display using the hdmi and uses my frogpad or other bluetooth keyboard it might be nice to be able to have the 5.1, video on lan is where I see that useful. But I think that option might be more of something out of a dock maybe.

I guess most of it goes back to how people plan to uses the device(s) that are created. In may ways the ranking does make since since it lets us know what feature people plan to uses. If we are basing the device off of what the masses want then this would be the way to go. If we are basing the device off of what would be nice to have then we need to see what can be include and see if it is even practical.

Just my thoughts durning my first cup of coffee this morning.
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Da_Blitz
post Aug 26 2006, 05:36 AM
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i have always intended to start using this as my main PC, hence the hdmi out (can be converted to dvi, thats why its in there) and the usb ports

i dont know haw many people know but hdmi provides 5.1 in the cable itself (SPDIF if i am not mistaken) so it should be a plug and play affair, it does mean that the primary reasons for adding 5.1 throgh the headphone jacks are gone hawever we will see what happens and how i wire the chip/what chip i use as there are several ways to pull this off

i belive there was a ranking but it gets changed regularrly, in fact i think we need several rankings, one for main features one for secondary and one for tertiary.

main would be include things like wifi, bluetooth, ram amount and built in flash, ie the hard to wire up and expensive (board space or cash)
secondary would be casing features and other non primary concerns such as camera, GPS and such
tertiary is the easy to implement stuff (ie takes about 15 mins to add and dosent effect the design much) such as the audio out options (it is actually not that hard to wire it up) and the accelerometer

i will look into adding a list when i have X11 installed as everything i am looking at at the moment is monospaced and i am sure that it will get jumbeled up by a graphical http client
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Ferret-Simpson
post Aug 26 2006, 08:08 AM
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If you can find a package, try out Minimo. 0.016 is pretty daggit good!
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adf
post Aug 26 2006, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE(Ferret-Simpson @ Aug 26 2006, 04:08 PM)
If you can find a package, try out Minimo. 0.016 is pretty daggit good!
*

I just don't see what you see in minimo, unless you have a version I haven't tried. side by side firefox is not much worse on your resources and is a much better browser (on vga or better) imho. Both might be used I suppose.

I would be using this as a laptop/secondary computer (as I already have a decent desktop setup that I like) So far, I'm pretty impressed with the design as I understand it. The a/v out and usb would suit me perfectly. I could take or leave the phone (probably use it and like it when I got it) and the bluetooth, but If we have a phone then I'd want bt for a a headset (so I too could be a 21st century corporate borg smile.gif ) I'd like big cf storage, but lots o sd and a small size (as I've said before) could compensate.
the gps thing, though....
If it could replace a tom-tom type device for driving and a handheld for hiking/boating (though I might rather use a cheap waterproof garmin for that purpose) it would be impressive. That needs maps and a database, right? are these things readily available? would they be practical without the big internal storage option?

Also are there small, cheap portable hdmi >> vga adapters readily available? I assume so, but a quick look showed me mostly hdmi >> dvi.
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