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> Found: Picsel Browser For Zaurus, prefer version 1.1.2 on a 512MB SD
HoloVector
post Jan 5 2007, 01:59 PM
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I finally acquired a copy from an Auction Broker in Japan. Thanks Azuma and Aya. Leaving the rest of the thread untouched due to the technical discussion below.

______________
Got a working copy of the Picsel Browser for Zaurus SD that's sitting in a drawer gathering dust?

If so, PM me and maybe we can maybe work something out. As I mentioned above I would prefer the 512MB SD 1.1.2 version if possible but, would consider the 256MB SD version if I didn't have a choice.

I am located in Canada.

Thanks for reading.
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HoloVector
post Jan 11 2007, 08:25 PM
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QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 5 2007, 03:59 PM)
Got a working copy of the Picsel Browser for Zaurus SD that's sitting in a drawer gathering dust? 

If so, PM me and maybe we can maybe work something out.  As I mentioned above I would prefer the 512MB SD 1.1.2 version if possible but, would consider the 256MB SD version if I didn't have a choice. 

I am located in Canada.

Thanks for reading.
*

Wow! 42 views and no offers. sad.gif Here is my eBay profile. As you can see I have been on eBay for over 7 years and I have a 100% positive feedback.

I am willing to offer $120US for a working Picsel Browser for Zaurus 512MB version 1.1.2 card or $100US for a working Picsel Browser for Zaurus 256MB version 1.1.2 card or $80US for a working Picsel Browser for Zaurus 256MB with any previous version. Payment would be via PayPal.

So how about it? Anybody interested in the deal?
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Jon_J
post Jan 11 2007, 11:47 PM
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I'm not trying to get your hopes up, but I paid a lot more for picsel browser.
Since it's now discontinued, maybe someone will figure out how to separate it from it's SD card.
I'm NOT wanting to benefit from it's separation from it's SD card, but would love to use it without the SD card inserted.
That way I could use my SD card slot for a 4GB card.
I really hope you do find someone that's wanting to sell you their SD copy.
EDIT:
BTW, upgrading to 1.1.2 should be free, it was available on the web for a long time for free, (the upgrade, that is).
If you do manage to purchase a copy of Picsel Browser SD card from someone, just send me a pvt message, and I'll send you the 1.1.2 upgrade.
EDIT2:
I also don't write any files to this 512MB Picsel Browser card for fear I may wear out the SD card, and lose my "investment" in it.
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HoloVector
post Mar 3 2008, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 5 2007, 03:59 PM) *
Got a working copy of the Picsel Browser for Zaurus SD that's sitting in a drawer gathering dust?

If so, PM me and maybe we can maybe work something out. As I mentioned above I would prefer the 512MB SD 1.1.2 version if possible but, would consider the 256MB SD version if I didn't have a choice.

I am located in Canada.

Thanks for reading.

Bumping this back up to the top because I am still looking for one of these.
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speculatrix
post Mar 5 2008, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE(Jon_J @ Jan 12 2007, 07:47 AM) *
Since it's now discontinued, maybe someone will figure out how to separate it from it's SD card.


I tried to create a chroot environment in which to run it and spoof the /proc and /sys entries to make it think that it was running with a valid card, but there was something else happening. When I ran it using strace or dbg it behaved totally differently, so I suspected it had anti-debug code in it somehow. I guess if I were really skilled I'd use the zaurus hardware emulator so picsel couldn't tell it was being debugged, and find out what it was doing to detect the card.
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Capn_Fish
post Mar 5 2008, 05:25 PM
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Couldn't you use dd to copy the picsel card to a new one (strictly for not wearing out the card)?
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HoloVector
post Mar 5 2008, 06:53 PM
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QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Mar 5 2008, 07:25 PM) *
Couldn't you use dd to copy the picsel card to a new one (strictly for not wearing out the card)?

Panasonic was the one who put Picsel Browser on the SD card in the first place. The chances that undocumented tricks were used keep it wedded to the card are super high since Panasonic is one of the co-creators of the SD tech.

Here's the press release from Picsel that gives you some background:
http://www.picsel.com/index.php/mediacentre/casestudy/74/
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pelrun
post Mar 5 2008, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 12:53 PM) *
The chances that undocumented tricks were used keep it wedded to the card are super high since Panasonic is one of the co-creators of the SD tech.


Any such shenanigans would have to directly access the PXA270 sd controller (which is nicely documented and limited to a few memory-mapped registers) so they'd stick out like a sore thumb...
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speculatrix
post Mar 6 2008, 12:03 AM
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QUOTE(pelrun @ Mar 6 2008, 05:08 AM) *
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 12:53 PM) *
The chances that undocumented tricks were used keep it wedded to the card are super high since Panasonic is one of the co-creators of the SD tech.


Any such shenanigans would have to directly access the PXA270 sd controller (which is nicely documented and limited to a few memory-mapped registers) so they'd stick out like a sore thumb...


background: I do not have a copy of picsel... but I do want one. I had a copy of someone else's purely for experimentation. various people offered checksums of their files and copies of "register" files from their Z.

I did all this some time ago so my memory may be wrong.

when I compared cksums of the binaries, they were the same for the same versions.

when I used strace, I found that it accessed the various bits of /proc and /sys which allowed it to read the card identifiers, which of course aren't in the card's file system. I created a chroot environment and made my own versions of those files using information given by owners. it still didn't work - picsel ran and I got a pop-up box telling me to insert a valid card. If I ran under strace, it never got that far, I think it segfaulted and either gdb was too slow or likewise it never got that far, just segfaults.

If I get cacko dual-booted again, I'd like to have another go... I'm still learning new tricks about linux so might have more success!
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pelrun
post Mar 6 2008, 04:01 AM
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Whereas I'd objdump it, find the "insert valid card" message and work backwards to find where it was triggered. Then nop that bit out. biggrin.gif
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speculatrix
post Mar 6 2008, 05:34 AM
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QUOTE(pelrun @ Mar 6 2008, 12:01 PM) *
Whereas I'd objdump it, find the "insert valid card" message and work backwards to find where it was triggered. Then nop that bit out. biggrin.gif


I imagine, if picsel have any clue, the card check will be scattered through the code in different ways to prevent it being easy.

Has anyone ever actually come across an application which makes use of the "secure" in "secure digital card", using DRM to prevent file/music copying?
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HoloVector
post Mar 6 2008, 07:49 AM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 6 2008, 07:34 AM) *
QUOTE(pelrun @ Mar 6 2008, 12:01 PM) *
Whereas I'd objdump it, find the "insert valid card" message and work backwards to find where it was triggered. Then nop that bit out. biggrin.gif


I imagine, if picsel have any clue, the card check will be scattered through the code in different ways to prevent it being easy.

Has anyone ever actually come across an application which makes use of the "secure" in "secure digital card", using DRM to prevent file/music copying?

My hunch is that is exactly what we are looking at in this situation. I think Picsel Browser is looking for information stored in the Protected Region of the SD Card.

Read this from the SD Card association itself (Section 4 is what you need to read) http://www.sdcard.org/about/memory_card/

Just look at the facts we know.
1) The Picsel case study says Panasonic were the ones who created the Picsel embedded SD cards for the Zaurus.
2) Panasonic is a co-creator of the SD Card standard.
3) The DRM technology in SD cards is licensed to the SD Card Association by 4C.
4) 4C is the DRM licensing company of multiple companies including Panasonic.
5) The DRM technology on SD Cards uses a Protected Region with a key stored in it. If the key can't be decrypted or found then playback is not allowed.

Based on these facts it would not be a stretch for Panasonic to extend the playback DRM to binary execution. It looks to me like the Picsel binary is looking for the encypted key in the Protected Region of the SD. If it can't find it, it won't allow the program to run. So the only way to make a backup copy of a Picsel SD card would be to decrypt the Protected Region on the original card. Pull out the key and place it into the Protected Region of another SD card.

What do you think?
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speculatrix
post Mar 6 2008, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Based on these facts it would not be a stretch for Panasonic to extend the playback DRM to binary execution. I looks to me like the Picsel binary is looking for


we would have to hope picsel & panasonic have been very lazy and implemented security poorly if they have done that, it would require a major feat of reverse engineering to extract working code from a running system to get at any decrypted data and code.
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HoloVector
post Mar 6 2008, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 6 2008, 11:52 AM) *
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Based on these facts it would not be a stretch for Panasonic to extend the playback DRM to binary execution. I looks to me like the Picsel binary is looking for


we would have to hope picsel & panasonic have been very lazy and implemented security poorly if they have done that, it would require a major feat of reverse engineering to extract working code from a running system to get at any decrypted data and code.

Agreed however since this excercise seems to have been a proof of concept for Panasonic, I highly doubt it was lazily or poorly implemented. I hope someone proves me wrong. wink.gif

Now, who wants to sell a copy of Picsel Browser to me? biggrin.gif
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HoloVector
post Apr 19 2009, 08:14 PM
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*BUMP*

I'm still looking for one of these. wink.gif
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