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> Tosa Development Plan, where should dev effort go
xjqian
post Mar 14 2007, 09:30 PM
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As most of your know the 6000L is an odd breed compared to other Zauri, esp the clamshells, where availability and dev activities are high. Hence Tosa ROM version is behind others except for OZ/Angstrom where the key dev. Hrw has the device.

Current Tosa ROM status in the other popular rom is pretty disappointing

PdaXrom: beta1
Cacko: None

I've been whining for a long time without contributing. Part of the reason is that I don't know where should my effort go. I have to admit that I'm not even close to software engineer in trade and pretty inexperienced in the whole thing. But I'm pretty confident in my learning ability to get some Tosa dev going.

For a starter, I'm interested to advance PdaXrom to a stable/usable 2.4 kernel, similar to what Meanie did for pdaXii. (weed out bugs, etc. ) Who else is interested and have time to contribute? We probably need some sort of infrastructure (svn, emaillist, bugtracker, etc.) Could we borrow what's available in the PdaXrom site? Should we get together and form a team?

Btw, anybody interested in a Cacko ROM for Tosa?

I can probably commit half an hour per day for the project after my thesis defense.
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radiochickenwax
post Apr 20 2007, 07:25 PM
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Here are some funny links related to this thread:

Why Users Should Not Exist

UNIX Hater's Handbook

Help Wanted For CLISP


The following is quoted from the last link above:
QUOTE
The prizes for handling these issues:

    * handle one issue and you will get CVS write access;
    * handle two issues and you become an admin of the CLISP project;
    * handle three or more issues and you become the principal maintainer.

This reminds me of a joke: after the 1991 Russian coup attempt (which lead to the final downfall of communism), the Communist Party was very unpopular and tried to increase the membership by asking its members to recruit new members, with the following incentives:

    * if you bring one new member, you don't have to pay membership dues
    * if you bring two new members, you may resign from the Party
    * if you bring three new members, you may resign and you will also receive a certificate that you have never been a member of the Party!"


Please note, I'm not trying to be negative about this, I just found all of the above humorous. I'm still very much committed to the idea of an open source ROM for tosa that would combine the stability of OZ and Sharp with the usability of pdaXrom.

Personally, I'm not very happy with angstrom or OZ out of the box. GPE has never worked all that well for me as a window system compared to pdaXrom's more standard setup. It's a great idea for a PDA, but I didn't buy the zaurii to run an open source version of WinCE which IMHO is probably the worst interface I've ever used.

What I'd like to know is how to make OZ/Angstrom "feel" more like a standard desktop system. pdaXrom does the best job of that task, but there are obviously a lot of issues with the rom beyond that point, which is why we even have this thread in the first place.

For me, I'm still harboring this notion that I should be able to build the whole rom from scratch natively, with a minimal amount of patching of the original author's sources, something like the slackware distribution.

I suppose angstrom/OZ might be more to my liking if I were to try to start at least with the console image, and try to roll my window system from there, but building the x-window system has always been something of a nightmare for me.
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Meanie
post Apr 22 2007, 12:31 AM
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QUOTE(radiochickenwax @ Apr 21 2007, 01:25 PM)
Here are some funny links related to this thread:

Why Users Should Not Exist

UNIX Hater's Handbook

Help Wanted For CLISP


The following is quoted from the last link above:
QUOTE
The prizes for handling these issues:

    * handle one issue and you will get CVS write access;
    * handle two issues and you become an admin of the CLISP project;
    * handle three or more issues and you become the principal maintainer.

This reminds me of a joke: after the 1991 Russian coup attempt (which lead to the final downfall of communism), the Communist Party was very unpopular and tried to increase the membership by asking its members to recruit new members, with the following incentives:

    * if you bring one new member, you don't have to pay membership dues
    * if you bring two new members, you may resign from the Party
    * if you bring three new members, you may resign and you will also receive a certificate that you have never been a member of the Party!"


Please note, I'm not trying to be negative about this, I just found all of the above humorous. I'm still very much committed to the idea of an open source ROM for tosa that would combine the stability of OZ and Sharp with the usability of pdaXrom.

Personally, I'm not very happy with angstrom or OZ out of the box. GPE has never worked all that well for me as a window system compared to pdaXrom's more standard setup. It's a great idea for a PDA, but I didn't buy the zaurii to run an open source version of WinCE which IMHO is probably the worst interface I've ever used.

What I'd like to know is how to make OZ/Angstrom "feel" more like a standard desktop system. pdaXrom does the best job of that task, but there are obviously a lot of issues with the rom beyond that point, which is why we even have this thread in the first place.

For me, I'm still harboring this notion that I should be able to build the whole rom from scratch natively, with a minimal amount of patching of the original author's sources, something like the slackware distribution.

I suppose angstrom/OZ might be more to my liking if I were to try to start at least with the console image, and try to roll my window system from there, but building the x-window system has always been something of a nightmare for me.
*




I think that at the moment, if you want to build a new distro for Tosa, the best combo would be to use OE and build the latest OZ or Angstrom system and then hack the shit out of it to make it usable.

OZ/Angstrom have a nice build system (if you want to cross-compile) and can generate shitload of packages with all the required dependencies. However, many of the generated packages are literally shit as well. They install and resolve dependencies, etc... but they just don't work or crash...

However, if you have the time to put together a working native compiler (one that is ready to build and compile real apps, not just - oh, gcc is installed and it can compile helloworld) or hack the stuff bitbake produces to make things actually work, then OZ/Angstrom would probably be the easiest way forward since there are indeed a lot of packages available, but you just need to spend some time to fix some of them to make them work. Just get the packages for essential apps work first and then gradually fix them all up...

The other thing is that the default theme in OZ/GPE really looks ugly. However, changing the theme results in some applications to crash due to missing icons, etc... so you will need to spend some time to create a proper good looking and working replacement theme (or steal one from pdaXrom).

One good thing about OZ is that it is compatible with the default Sharp bootloader and hence NAND backup/restore still works. Forcing people to use u-boot is just a big inconvennience for most ordinary users. Most users dont need to dual boot and hence don't need u-boot. Some advanced users may want to dual boot and those can add u-boot if they so desire. The same scenario exist on the PC. Most PCs come with just one OS and they boot straight into that one OS. Advanced users can then choose to install a bootloader that allows them to dual boot, and install whatever they want...

The OZ installer on the other hand is quite stupid. it just assumes a standard partition layout and flashes the ROM/distro. The pdaXrom installer is much better in this regard. it has options to allow user to resize partitions, etc..., the best would be to have an option in the installer to restore the original / generate the required partition table.

Alternatively, you could also use the OZ kernel and customise the OZ installer, and build a custom pdaXrom rootfs and make a initrd.bin file from that instead of using the OZ rootfs.
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Posts in this topic
xjqian   Tosa Development Plan   Mar 14 2007, 09:30 PM
gfdsa   QUOTEWe probably need some sort of infrastructure ...   Mar 14 2007, 11:29 PM
adf   my .02 us would be to: work on the pdax kernel (i...   Mar 15 2007, 12:05 AM
xjqian   QUOTE(adf @ Mar 15 2007, 03:05 AM)my .02 us w...   Mar 15 2007, 12:24 AM
adf   that sounds about right. It occurred to me after ...   Mar 15 2007, 11:04 AM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(xjqian @ Mar 15 2007, 05:30 AM)Who else...   Apr 5 2007, 03:25 PM
adf   Interested? Definitely. Able to port uboot to the ...   Apr 5 2007, 05:01 PM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 6 2007, 01:01 AM)Interested? ...   Apr 5 2007, 08:13 PM
adf   I think the way softfloat is done on the OZ kernel...   Apr 5 2007, 08:19 PM
xjqian   QUOTE(radiochickenwax @ Apr 5 2007, 11:13 PM)...   Apr 7 2007, 01:50 AM
gagware   QUOTE(adf @ Mar 15 2007, 10:05 AM)I take it A...   Apr 1 2007, 02:55 AM
xjqian   QUOTE(gagware @ Apr 1 2007, 05:55 AM)Actually...   Apr 1 2007, 04:19 AM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 6 2007, 04:19 AM)How hard wou...   Apr 5 2007, 08:52 PM
adf   Yeah-- I kinda hate to mess with mine-- the tetsu/...   Apr 5 2007, 09:47 PM
xjqian   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 6 2007, 12:47 AM)2.6 OZ/Angst...   Apr 7 2007, 02:03 AM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(xjqian @ Apr 7 2007, 10:03 AM)QUOTE(adf...   Apr 7 2007, 11:16 AM
adf   Maybe we should have a look at what HRW does with ...   Apr 7 2007, 11:18 AM
speculatrix   one thing I'd like to see is unionfs support b...   Apr 6 2007, 01:12 AM
adf   QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 6 2007, 09:12 AM)one ...   Apr 6 2007, 07:01 PM
xjqian   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 7 2007, 02:18 PM)Maybe we sho...   Apr 7 2007, 07:13 PM
koen   QUOTE(xjqian @ Apr 8 2007, 03:13 AM)OZ people...   Apr 8 2007, 07:14 AM
speculatrix   QUOTE(koen @ Apr 8 2007, 04:14 PM)And talking...   Apr 8 2007, 02:17 PM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(xjqian @ Apr 8 2007, 03:13 AM)I'm f...   Apr 8 2007, 12:06 PM
adf   So what we are really looking at is either a tidie...   Apr 8 2007, 12:18 PM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 8 2007, 08:18 PM)So what we a...   Apr 8 2007, 12:31 PM
radiochickenwax   An update: U -boot seems to flash properly on the...   Apr 8 2007, 01:40 PM
adf   I can agree to a distro...any distro. The thing i...   Apr 8 2007, 03:09 PM
xjqian   QUOTE(koen @ Apr 8 2007, 10:14 AM)That's ...   Apr 10 2007, 12:20 AM
radiochickenwax   I agree that there are definite advantages to a Sh...   Apr 10 2007, 10:24 AM
adf   cacko never quite worked right. Guylhem was trying...   Apr 10 2007, 06:52 PM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 11 2007, 02:52 AM)cacko never...   Apr 13 2007, 03:29 PM
adf   Angstrom sounds hopeful, at least. I haven't ...   Apr 13 2007, 07:11 PM
Hrw   Ok. Let me write few words. Yes, I have a tosa he...   Apr 20 2007, 05:52 AM
adf   I've flashed to Angstrom- it seems to work. ne...   Apr 20 2007, 04:11 PM
Hrw   QUOTE(adf @ Apr 21 2007, 02:11 AM)edit: I ten...   Apr 20 2007, 11:03 PM
radiochickenwax   Here are some funny links related to this thread: ...   Apr 20 2007, 07:25 PM
koen   QUOTE(radiochickenwax @ Apr 21 2007, 03:25 AM...   Apr 20 2007, 08:21 PM
Meanie   QUOTE(radiochickenwax @ Apr 21 2007, 01:25 PM...   Apr 22 2007, 12:31 AM
radiochickenwax   QUOTE(Meanie @ Apr 22 2007, 08:31 AM)Alternat...   Apr 22 2007, 02:48 PM
adf   that could be very interesting   Apr 22 2007, 08:45 PM
radiochickenwax   Yeah, I've been wanting to do something like t...   Apr 23 2007, 04:01 PM
adf   QUOTE(radiochickenwax @ Apr 24 2007, 12:01 AM...   Apr 23 2007, 07:25 PM
radiochickenwax   This sorta reminds me of the etched marble experim...   Apr 24 2007, 10:19 AM


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