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> Freedom Plan, We must be quick! Act NOW!
Cresho
post Apr 15 2007, 08:08 AM
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hmm....
here are some interesting articles which i cannot confirm as legitamite but adds to the fuel of conspiracy theory
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=17432
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/03/294/

I also read articles stating that bush and the media is brainwashing U.S. citizens making us think there is a problem over there. They have a different opinion and view things differently but i cannot post any extra information. according to other readings, we will have 2 things happen within the next 3 years, a female president or bush still running the country. The last thing is the big war. and the draft.

food for your thoughts. this is how many people we have killed already. We the people.

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

and finaly, i read somewhere with an update to a quarter of a million deaths.....

We estimate there were 98,000 extra deaths (95% CI 8000-194 000) during the post-war period.
http://www.slate.com/id/2108887/

this is why U.S. media television is totally bullshit. They never mention how many people we killed. what kind of news reporting is that?

This post has been edited by Cresho: Apr 15 2007, 08:24 AM
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Cresho
post Apr 15 2007, 08:33 AM
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and finally....how many deaths in iraq..total over 2.7 million

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/12261/42/

and if you dont like this news information cuz its not legit, try a us version

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/mi...=rssnyt&emc=rss

which is a bunch of bullshit since nobody knows how to count dead people.

This post has been edited by Cresho: Apr 15 2007, 08:35 AM
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adf
post Apr 15 2007, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 15 2007, 09:31 AM)
QUOTE(adf @ Apr 15 2007, 05:59 AM)
This is really simple.  We have overbred and need to work on reducing and balancing our population.
That is good as a long term goal. When people talk of over-population I bet most will be thinking of places like China and India, and indeed they are, however reducing populations in those countries isn't going to significantly reduce pollution. Killing off China and India, with about 30-35% of the world's population would reduce pollution by maybe 10-15%, whereas killing off the US, with about 5% of the world's population would reduce pollution by about 20-25%[1]. Hence it would be far better value for money to kill off the US smile.gif
Assuming that we can't commit mass genocide then the short term goal is to reduce pollution.

[1] these are figures pulled out of my arse but they should be more or less accurate give or take a few orders of magnitude smile.gif
*


You are probably underestimating 2 things

China's actual industrial output

The comparative technical ease with whcih the US could reduce green house gas emissions

no three things

the relative ease with which a lower population density can become environmentally sustainable. I'd guess that it might actually be more difficult for europe or china to meet a meaningful sustainablility standard than the US, despite the currently horrid situation in the states.

Keep in mind that I am talking technical feasability, not the cultural inertia of ignorance.
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harvell
post Apr 15 2007, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 14 2007, 09:41 PM)
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 14 2007, 07:51 PM)
That's not correct.... I live in the US
ergo
QUOTE
and it's the complete opposite situation here now.
wink.gif

QUOTE
Scientists and climatologists who don't go along with the Stalinist global warming kooks party line and drink their global warming kool-aid are being harassed and silenced...
Do you have any articles or references to backup the above statements?

QUOTE
Yes, they should be in doubt, as their is no actual scientific proof that human activities are contributing to global warming...
The IPCC (www.ipcc.ch has plenty of scientific data, whether you accept them as proof is for you to decide.

I will re-iterate my simple proof:

1) human activities leads to industry and pollution
2) industry+pollution = greenhouse gases
3) greenhouse gases = warming

I'm sure you would agree with (1) and (2). As for (3), look up the defintion of greenhouse gases, greenhouse gases are so-called precisely because they contribute to warming. www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/95report/glossary.html

QUOTE
Besides the sun's solar activities and the ocean floor vents I've already mentioned in earlier posts are the main cause of climate change (not global warming as there are parts of the world that are actually cooling...), if anything else is contributing to the situation it's all the cows around the world producing methane gas every day!!
No one is denying the fact that a million and one other factors contribute to climate change, but you seem to be denying that human activities is one of them.

QUOTE
The fact is that some places are melting but some place are not melting but growing...
You can probably cite exceptions for almost anything. The key point is the global trend - the big picture - not isolated incidents.

QUOTE
Once again, I think that there are too many non-critical thinkers out there you who just swallow hook, line, and sinker, ...

Think some of you need to widen your horizons a bit.....expand your reading lists and listening lists too....get out of the 'echo chamber' you're in where you're just repeating the same stuff back and forth between your same like-minded buddies without ever really hearing other legimate perspectives....
I couldn't have put it better myself tongue.gif
*



Whoohoo!!! nothing like insightful debate rather than hapless conjecture to get the brain juices and google searches going. I have to back up my silicon valley brother hear and post this link of a foxnews report of scientist losing their job by not being lemming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJxwl69mrEM

It's hard to be totally convinced of global warming when you have some record lows in the year that somewhat messed up our agricultural economy

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNGG9OGQFA1.DTL

A pretty good vid is The Great Global Warming Swindle. Put out by a couple of scientist not only in the US. Don't get me wrong I'm all about saving money, oceans , trees, and cutting down pollution. But don't try to scare me and use my tax dollars on things that may not be true.
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danboid
post Apr 15 2007, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 15 2007, 04:04 PM)
Alright Danboid, I took the bait, I downloaded one of the Jordan Maxwell videos (Jordan Maxwell -Basic Slideshow Presentation (Hidden Symbols)), and watched it (I try to keep an open mind). I've gotten halfway through it, and all I've seen is that Maxwell attributes anything that contains one or more of the four basic geometric shapes:
  circle - 1 line
  cross - 2 lines
  triangle - 3 lines
  square - 4 lines
as Masonic symbols. Incidently I just noticed that I have a piece of chalk (for cues - snooker, pool) sitting on my desk and according to Maxwell's criteria it most certainly is produced by a Masonic company, it says Triangle Chalk (trademark registered), on one side it has a circle containing a triangle, on another it has another Masonic symbol - a crown with the caption "KING of them all".

I'm just wondering before I watch the rest of it - does it get any better?
*


Symbology is a very important issue that anyone who doesn't appreciate being covertly manipulated and deceived needs to seriously study. It is doubly important to anyone who wants to understand (or debunk) the teachings of the various religious orders and secret societies, and the astrological, mathematical, spiritual or otherwise knowledge simultaneously hidden/revealed within. The sad truth is that 99% of the population is symbolically illiterate and so are oblivious to the 1000's of encoded messages that they see every day. They may not understand these images consciously but they often have a certain effect on your sub-conscious because your mind actually stores and retrieves information through symbols and the mind has sub-conscious access to a so-called 'group mind' (I can't remember the official psychological term for this) which knows their meaning through having worshiped or known such patterns for thousands of years. It is a higher form of communication than verbal and is actually a stepping stone towards telepathy and holographic communication.

Advertisers and other people in the media are well aware of sacred symbology, colour symbology and its effect on the human mind and so they use this to their advantage. True, not every logo has esoteric meaning but these are more often than not the exceptions.

EDIT

Apart from Jordan Maxwell, who I've mentioned here already, I'd recommend anyone wanting to know more on symbology check out Michael Tsarions "Subversive use of sacred symbolism in the media" and Manly Hall's "Secret Teachings of all ages"
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desertrat
post Apr 16 2007, 12:14 AM
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Go easy on the quoting please.
QUOTE(harvell @ Apr 16 2007, 06:00 AM)
I have to back up my silicon valley brother hear and post this link of a foxnews report of scientist losing their job by not being lemming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJxwl69mrEM

Sadly both sides are engaging in malpractice and meddling in free debate. However the meddling done by climate change deniers comes right from the top, Bush and his cronies, and is systemic. Whilst (I believe) the medding done by the other side is sporadic and isolated - yes even scientists can be bad dudes sometimes, just as sometimes you get a good politician or a good lawyer.

Incidently, Fox really isn't the best place to get unbiased news wink.gif

QUOTE
It's hard to be totally convinced of global warming when you have some record lows in the year that somewhat messed up our agricultural economy

I repeat it's the global trend, the big picture, you have to look at. You know sometimes you get the odd cold day in summer, surely you're not going to say "Bloody hell it's cold, it must be winter" (well, you might say that - but doesn't mean its true).

QUOTE
But don't try to scare me and use my tax dollars on things that may not be true.

There was a study by some economist last year which concluded that it would be more costly to not doing anything about climate change.
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desertrat
post Apr 16 2007, 12:56 AM
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OK, I'm listening to "William Cooper & Jordan Maxwell Interview", and Maxwell is talking about the black robe that you wear on graduation (from university) and claims that it is derived from the robes that a certain "Saturnalian cult", "which was pre-Egyptian" (I assume he means ancient Egyptian ie before the pharaohs), and "according to that ancient Semitic cult when you got married you wear the ring, the ring was the ring of Saturn".

Please tell me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Galileo is generally credited with discovering that Saturn has rings and he had to use a telescope to see them - it was Huygens who later actually confirmed them as rings because he had a better telescope than Galilieo. Are Saturn's rings visible to the naked eye? I can't see them for sure because I'm shortsighted smile.gif

So either the ancients have really good eyesight, or they had telescopes or old Maxwell is telling porkies (to put it politely).
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danboid
post Apr 16 2007, 02:57 AM
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So you've never heard of the Mayans (as in the Mayan Calendars?) or the Dogon tribe? These are just two examples of ancient cultures who had stunningly accurate astronomical knowledge which has only been verified by modern science in the last 50 years thanks to Hubble etc.

A few quotes on the Dogon I've found on the net

"The Dogon Tribe lives in the Homburi Mountains near Timbuktu in the southwestern portion of the Sahara Desert in Africa. Central to their religious teachings is knowledge about the Sirius star system, which includes a star which is invisible to the naked eye and, in fact, so difficult to observe -- even through a telescope -- that no known photographs were taken of it until 1970.

The Dogon were also able to describe its elliptical orbit with Sirius A at one foci of the ellipse (an accurate description), its orbital period of 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 +/- 0.09 years), and the fact the star rotated on its own axis (it does). Significantly, The Dogon also described a third star in the Sirius system, which they called “Emme Ya” (“Sorghum Female”), and which contained a single satellite in orbit around Emme.

The Dogon idea of their being a Sirius C, aka Emme Ya, was not accorded any real respect until 1995, when two French Astronomers published their results, after years of study, of what was apparently a small, red-dwarf star within the Sirius star system [1] The conclusion was based on perturbations in the orbits that could not be explained by any other means.

In addition to the Sirius system, The Dogon mythology includes knowledge of Saturn’s rings and Jupiter’s four major moons (none of which can be seen by the naked eye and it was only by Galileo and later astronomer’s telescopes that either could be seen). The Dogon also have long known that planets orbit the sun."
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charlie
post Apr 16 2007, 04:32 AM
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Does Danboid = David Icke? He thinks that all the world leaders are 12 foot high lizards but we just can't see them properly.
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desertrat
post Apr 16 2007, 08:02 AM
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QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 16 2007, 10:57 AM)
So you've never heard of the Mayans (as in the Mayan Calendars?)

Those can be constructed solely by observation (with the naked eye) and good enough mathematics.

But Saturn's rings are by all accounts invisible to the unaided eye. So how did the "Saturnalian Cult" come to know about the rings. As with all assertions by Maxwell he just trots them off as fact and doesn't even give a hint as to where he got his conclusion from - maybe he explains it in his books but I'm sure not wasting any of my money to find out.

QUOTE
In addition to the Sirius system, The Dogon mythology includes knowledge of Saturn’s rings and Jupiter’s four major moons (none of which can be seen by the naked eye and it was only by Galileo and later astronomer’s telescopes that either could be seen).  The Dogon also have long known that planets orbit the sun."

The controversy surrounding the Dogons and their mythology probably stems from Robert Temple's book. I haven't read his book (have you?), but apparently he doesn't quite conclude as to where the Dogons got their knowledge from except to say that they were derived from Egyptian and Sumerian sources which in turn came from some "advanced civilization". If you have read the book, I would like to know whether Temple does attribute an ultimate source. If you haven't read the book I would like to know what your views are - was it indigenous knowledge obtained by "observations", or did some ET give it to them, or whatever?

I prefer Carl Sagan's analysis.
http://www.debunker.com/texts/dogon.html
As the above points out, there is no hard evidence that the Dogons' knowledge (of Sirius) is "ancient".
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HoloVector
post Apr 16 2007, 09:56 AM
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The BIGGEST conspiracy going on right now is the one that danboid has started with this thread! ph34r.gif

With over 850 views and nearly 60 replies this thread is singlehandedly distracting the OESF community at large.

danboid, the man with the corrupted NAND, has instigated this sinister plot to confuse and distract his fellow members so that he doesn't miss out any substantial Zaurus goodies while his poor Zaurus is mortally wounded. What's that saying about the Devil and idle hands, again? ohmy.gif

Well danboid, me and my tinfoil wrapped Zaurii are now on to you and we will expose this travesty to the world by....

Oh bother! I posted this to the thread didn't I? Now I am part of the problem and that I was trying to protect the community from and ARRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!! <<<<head spontaneously combusts>>>>.

EOF

biggrin.gif
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Fushnchupsh
post Apr 16 2007, 10:11 AM
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or perhaps, holovector.... Perhaps you are the brainchild to this oesf'ian conspiracy and have merely stayed in the dark plotting. Your former post is only a cover! We are all your pawns in some twisted machination that will only lead us to heartbreak and exlax laced muffins.

I mean, you are responsible for the death of the zaurus line and other gadgets. Who knows what other evils you are capable of!

--Fish
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brashley46
post Apr 16 2007, 07:08 PM
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Oh, dear.
This is perhaps the silliest thread I've seen in a while.

Danboid, the real conspiracy is the bankers and the oil companies, trying to keep the rest of us from understanding and therefore taking over and ruining their world. But then I know The Truth, I'm an old Trotskyist.
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Antikx
post Apr 16 2007, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE(HoloVector @ Apr 16 2007, 11:56 AM)
danboid, the man with the corrupted NAND, has instigated this sinister plot to confuse and distract his fellow members so that he doesn't miss out any substantial Zaurus goodies while his poor Zaurus is mortally wounded.  What's that saying about the Devil and idle hands, again? ohmy.gif
*

I was considering posting something similar, but you beat me to it. wink.gif
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anonuk
post Apr 17 2007, 07:54 AM
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If you want a good conspiracy, read Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson, you can even find it in a zaurus readable format....

Im a bit sick of conspiracy stuff being used to push certain world views. Of course the media lies and absolute power corrupts - but not everything can be explained by inside job/illuminati/conspiracy stuff.

Im coming round to thinking that 9/11 was simultaneousy an inside job, an al qaeda job and probably another group (or three) got involved also. All the evidence provided in this thread and other 9/11 threads can be found to point to this conclusion just as easily. People see what they want to see.........

Conspiracies do exist, unfortunately most of the ones I have come across that hold water seem to be ignored by most conspiracists as they go against their world view. For example 'The Secret War against the Jews' is a fascinating book, but most conspiracists completely ignore this and similar works as they dont fit with the specific world view they are trying to prove. There is much evidence of a conspiracy against the state of Israel (check UN Human Rights council rulings that have singled out only this country hundreds of times while ignoring recurring genocides and rights violations in places like Sudan and East Timor). The world also seems to ignore the fact that Saudi Arabia is a completely apartheid country where people of some religions are not even allowed to set foot.
Im sick of people ignoring facts that dont fit their view of the world....

I think it was Timothy Leary (Phd) who wrote that there are 23 conspiracies involved in nearly every situation. 23 Skidoo.....
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