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> Release Included Packages, light or heavy?
InSearchOf
post Sep 6 2007, 04:22 AM
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I know it is hard as a dev to say does the community want this... Do they want that.... Or do they want neither.

This is why I ask this question. I'm not asking for what packages everyone would like (will be brought up later)
But would you want to have a base rom with very little packages (xfree,wm, utils, term app, text editor)

Or beef it up with the above and im client, web browser, mail app, word processor, etc.

I would like to know if the we (community) are a do-it-ourselves kind of group or would rather have it there and ready out of the box even if there may be unused apps

Late
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desertrat
post Sep 10 2007, 08:45 PM
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I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
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InSearchOf
post Sep 11 2007, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
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Meanie
post Sep 11 2007, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
*



maybe later when I have more time. i think the ideas employed in my zbackup solution is quite good and should also be added into this new backup/restore tool... but sorry, i am rather busy at the moment...
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InSearchOf
post Sep 11 2007, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 11 2007, 08:56 PM)
QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
*



maybe later when I have more time. i think the ideas employed in my zbackup solution is quite good and should also be added into this new backup/restore tool... but sorry, i am rather busy at the moment...
*



One difference between your Z backup tool and the one I've implemented where is it executed from.
This will be housed under the Emergency image. It will be an all in 1 package for installing, backing up and restoring.
Install will be the same as normal but call done in the background.
Backup will be a dd export of the system
Restore dd import

Simple enough :-)

Late
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Meanie
post Sep 11 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 12 2007, 12:57 PM)
QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 11 2007, 08:56 PM)
QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)
QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)
I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that depends on whether the heavy install mostly contains apps I would actually use or just bloat). The lite version should have some decent tools for viewing and editing text file (config files) - I'm not sure whether this is still the case, but at one stage even the all important 'less' was not included. A decent editor would be vim but that may be too bloated, (vi is crap because it corrupts the display), maybe nano would do.

With the full backup/restore scripts by Meanie(?) it should be easy for people to do a lite install, then install apps of their choice then do a backup to create their own custom rom.
*


Actually I'm going to be heading up the backup/restore tool... but if meanie wants it... he can have it :-)

Late
*



maybe later when I have more time. i think the ideas employed in my zbackup solution is quite good and should also be added into this new backup/restore tool... but sorry, i am rather busy at the moment...
*



One difference between your Z backup tool and the one I've implemented where is it executed from.
This will be housed under the Emergency image. It will be an all in 1 package for installing, backing up and restoring.
Install will be the same as normal but call done in the background.
Backup will be a dd export of the system
Restore dd import

Simple enough :-)

Late
*



it is true that it is quite simple, and simple is generally good. however, there are a few downsides that i would like to point out. you would need to boot into the emergency system in order to do backup. this is similar to the current nand backup, but imho a bit of an inconvenience and since humans are generally lazy, it would probably lead to people seldomly doing a backup except maybe just prior to a major upgrade or flashing to another distro.
the other drawback which i consider more of an issue is that using dd to backup the whole system can be a great overhead. it would not be a problem for purely nand based systems since there only is a total of 128MB, however, with the c3x00 series where there also is a harddisk (microdrive) which is 4/6GB in size, doing a dd might not be such a great idea. sure, you could partition up the microdrive into several smaller partition and only backup the system partition where packages are installed to. remember the c3000 only has 16mb of nand so it has to have its system on the microdrive, whereas the other c3x00 models have the option to either have the system files on nand or the microdrive.
not trying to beat up on you but you did sort of promise support for c3000 so issues for the c3000 need therefore also be considered.
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InSearchOf
post Sep 12 2007, 04:13 AM
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QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 12 2007, 12:03 AM)
It is true that it is quite simple, and simple is generally good. however, there are a few downsides that i would like to point out. you would need to boot into the emergency system in order to do backup. this is similar to the current nand backup, but imho a bit of an inconvenience and since humans are generally lazy, it would probably lead to people seldomly doing a backup except maybe just prior to a major upgrade or flashing to another distro.
the other drawback which i consider more of an issue is that using dd to backup the whole system can be a great overhead. it would not be a problem for purely nand based systems since there only is a total of 128MB, however, with the c3x00 series where there also is a harddisk (microdrive) which is 4/6GB in size, doing a dd might not be such a great idea. sure, you could partition up the microdrive into several smaller partition and only backup the system partition where packages are installed to. remember the c3000 only has 16mb of nand so it has to have its system on the microdrive, whereas the other c3x00 models have the option to either have the system files on nand or the microdrive.
not trying to beat up on you but you did sort of promise support for c3000 so issues for the c3000 need therefore also be considered.
*


I've thought about this... briefly... but I have. Well, it is weighed on if I decide to make the system partition static to 128mb or if I allow user customization. Standardizing to 128mb give or take (in most cases give :-D ) will keep the backup and restore times pretty much standard across the board and most users have a 256mb-up usbflash,sd, or cf card to drop there backup on to.

But that is why 3000 is still in the think tank :-) and C3000 doesnt have a estimated completion date. I have a lot more ahead of me before the one gets a solid push...

Thanks Meanie, and I'm going to head your assistance heading up this project due to me not having a c3000

Late

EDIT: and regards to the whole Booting into emergency image to do a back up.

I'm am all about Byte by Byte backups, I not to keen to the tar'ing a filesystem and an active one at that... *quivers*
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desertrat
post Sep 14 2007, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 12 2007, 12:13 PM)
I'm am all about Byte by Byte backups, I not to keen to the tar'ing a filesystem and an active one at that... *quivers*

Actually it's good that there are (or will be) 2 backup methods. Meanie's could be used for "everyday" backup operations, whilst yours would be like ghost/partimage for making a verbatim backup of the complete system.
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Posts in this topic
InSearchOf   Release Included Packages   Sep 6 2007, 04:22 AM
Dromede   hmmm... how about both? :-D seriously, i think tha...   Sep 6 2007, 10:21 AM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(Dromede @ Sep 6 2007, 02:21 PM)hmmm... ...   Sep 6 2007, 11:51 AM
Capn_Fish   I saey leave it pretty minimal, but with enough st...   Sep 6 2007, 10:22 AM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Sep 6 2007, 02:22 PM)On ano...   Sep 6 2007, 11:56 AM
louigi600   I think pretty much everyone would expect the basi...   Sep 6 2007, 10:42 AM
HoloVector   When I had the option to go Lite or Full with Cack...   Sep 6 2007, 12:26 PM
tanjian2   Can Antix/Meanie provide any stats regarding pdaxr...   Sep 6 2007, 12:46 PM
HoloVector   QUOTE(tanjian2 @ Sep 6 2007, 02:46 PM)Can Ant...   Sep 6 2007, 01:45 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(tanjian2 @ Sep 6 2007, 04:46 PM)Can Ant...   Sep 6 2007, 02:11 PM
Capn_Fish   QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 6 2007, 05:11 PM)QUOTE...   Sep 6 2007, 03:51 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Sep 6 2007, 07:51 PM)Does t...   Sep 6 2007, 05:16 PM
Meanie   QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 7 2007, 11:16 AM)QUOTE...   Sep 10 2007, 06:40 PM
adf   All true. But the browser thing is kinda haunting...   Sep 10 2007, 07:05 PM
HoloVector   Now, I can't wait to see your roadmap!   Sep 6 2007, 07:08 PM
desertrat   I would tend to prefer a lite install (but that de...   Sep 10 2007, 08:45 PM
adf   QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 10 2007, 08:45 PM)I wou...   Sep 10 2007, 09:04 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(desertrat @ Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM)I wou...   Sep 11 2007, 05:02 AM
Meanie   QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 11 2007, 11:02 PM)QUOT...   Sep 11 2007, 04:56 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 11 2007, 08:56 PM)QUOTE(In...   Sep 11 2007, 06:57 PM
Meanie   QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 12 2007, 12:57 PM)QUOT...   Sep 11 2007, 08:03 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 12 2007, 12:03 AM)It is tr...   Sep 12 2007, 04:13 AM
desertrat   QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Sep 12 2007, 12:13 PM)I...   Sep 14 2007, 10:09 PM
koan   Here is my 10 yen on lite vs full: I would prefer...   Sep 30 2007, 04:00 AM
adf   any chance it will be able to restore from or back...   Sep 14 2007, 11:25 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(adf @ Sep 15 2007, 03:25 AM)any chance ...   Sep 15 2007, 06:32 AM
ernestus   Too much work for InSearchOf, isn't it? I had ...   Sep 11 2007, 05:56 AM
Capn_Fish   I'm all for trying a Gecko-based browser with ...   Sep 11 2007, 05:28 PM
InSearchOf   QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Sep 11 2007, 09:28 PM)I...   Sep 11 2007, 06:08 PM
HoloVector   I think the new pdaXrom version should leverage th...   Sep 11 2007, 07:36 PM
scoutme   best solution IMHO would be a lite but complete pa...   Sep 14 2007, 11:27 AM


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