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> Orinoco Vs. Hostap Clash On Angstrom
walkman
post Oct 19 2007, 07:05 AM
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On my way through different distros I try to experiment with Angstrom. But once again, I bumped into the Orinoco vs. Hostap drivers issue. Does anyone have a clue about how to solve it on Angstrom?

Obvious attempt to get rid of orinoco drivers completely, I tried "ikpkg remove kernel-modules-orinoco". It fails with an error that kernel-modules depends on this one, and I do not have guts to remove such a package smile.gif

I also found several remarks about which files to edit and where, but such files do not exist at all, or the config in FAQ is obviously broken:
  • manual says I should edit wpa_config and put there "/etc/pcmcia/rf010804.hex" entry, but such a file does not exist in the newest test build
  • /etc/pcmcia nor other obvious /etc/ directories include seemingly useful config files...
I am stuck...

My card is D-Link DCF 660W.

Thanks for any comment.

P.S.
As I read on this forum that Angstrom developers are quite sensitive on where users ask for help I feel a need to apologize in advance so that I do not get some flame wink.gif:
1.- Sorry for posting to probably a wrong thread.
2.- Sorry for not posting this to angstrom-users list, but I searched it and found nothing useful. Just an entry in a bug tracker, but no advice on how to get around it...
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JohnX
post Oct 20 2007, 06:24 AM
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I had the same problem. It seems to be fixed in the most recent angstrom version for me, but I'm fairly certain it's something that has to be fixed for each card. In my case I did:
CODE
ipkg -recursive remove kernel-module-orinoco

It never caused any problems and you can undo that change (if it causes problems) by running:
CODE
ipkg install task-base-pcmcia


You might also be able to fix it by adding this to /etc/modprobe.conf:
CODE
blacklist orinoco
blacklist orinoco_cs

I haven't tested that but I think it should work.

Good luck. Post back if you have further questions.

-John
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koen
post Oct 20 2007, 07:33 AM
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QUOTE(walkman @ Oct 19 2007, 03:05 PM) *
2.- Sorry for not posting this to angstrom-users list, but I searched it and found nothing useful. Just an entry in a bug tracker, but no advice on how to get around it...


There's no excuse for not posting to the mailinglist *especially* when there are no references. But I guess everyone wants to feel special and ignore all the rules. So we end up with lots of posts in random forums and nothing on the mailinglist. I find that anti-social, but maybe the whole zaurus thing is about being anti-social.
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walkman
post Oct 20 2007, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE(koen @ Oct 20 2007, 05:33 PM) *
QUOTE(walkman @ Oct 19 2007, 03:05 PM) *
2.- Sorry for not posting this to angstrom-users list, but I searched it and found nothing useful. Just an entry in a bug tracker, but no advice on how to get around it...


There's no excuse for not posting to the mailinglist *especially* when there are no references. But I guess everyone wants to feel special and ignore all the rules. So we end up with lots of posts in random forums and nothing on the mailinglist. I find that anti-social, but maybe the whole zaurus thing is about being anti-social.


This kind of user treatment does not make any good for your product. Lack of documentation, user support and unhelpful developers already killed better products than this... In the end, you did not have to reply. I posted to this forum intentionally. And very well aware of the fact that I probaby won't get any help. I thought that was explicit from my post so this trolling was completely unnecessary.

I am hesitating to subscribe to a mailing list only to get a single advice. If I will find out that Angstrom is worth to use (for me personally of course), only then I will make that step. I am not about to crunch through dozens of useless e-mails daily just because I need one single advice.

And no, I don't want to feel special. Again: I do not mind if Angstrom developers ignore oesf forum - in the end they state it clearly on their pages and I respect that decision... I only hoped users do not. My question was user-oriented, rather than to developers. Finally, I do not care where is all the information about whatever product located! The description of a problem I have is my own private property. Only I myself decide where do I publish it (and if at all), not somebody else, like for example you... And please do not speak about being anti-social about somebody you have no clue about... I consider it quite offensive. Very bad PR... sad.gif

BTW, I even created an account in Angstrom bugzilla before I posted to oesf. But, I did not want to post anything to that bug report right away (maybe I will if you will manage to convince me - but you did not do a good job till now...), because I was afraid that oversensitive developers will put me down as a lame user who puts crap to their precious bugzilla. Now I see it was a very correct assumption and you are on a good way to loose a potential user...

The hurdle to overcome when one wants to play with Angstrom seems to be very high... sad.gif And actually, the game is simple. Developers value their users and they in turn stay loyal. Easy as that... Users are the most valuable good OSS developers have. Without users, their work is worth zero.
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walkman
post Oct 20 2007, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE(JohnX @ Oct 20 2007, 04:24 PM) *
I had the same problem. It seems to be fixed in the most recent angstrom version for me, but I'm fairly certain it's something that has to be fixed for each card. In my case I did:
CODE
ipkg -recursive remove kernel-module-orinoco

It never caused any problems and you can undo that change (if it causes problems) by running:
CODE
ipkg install task-base-pcmcia


You might also be able to fix it by adding this to /etc/modprobe.conf:
CODE
blacklist orinoco
blacklist orinoco_cs

I haven't tested that but I think it should work.

Good luck. Post back if you have further questions.

-John


Thank you very much for your reply and advice. I tried to uninstall the orinoco module, but it doesn't seem to help...

CODE
$ ifconfig wlan0 up
SIOCGIFLAGS: No such device
$ ifup wlan0
elan0 no private ioctls


As far as the blacklisting, I found this soluition already. However, the file /etc/modprobe.conf does not exist! There's just /etc/modprobe.d/ directory listing some files which do not seem to be useful in this context...

Anyway thanks for help. Actually if I won't make it work soon, I will simply remove Angstrom and that will be it for some time (their release?). I am on a search for a working OS. Not one I have to spend a lot of time configuring (although such does not seem to be on the market...) and with poor support. Even though it seems promissing in terms of provided applications...
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JohnX
post Oct 20 2007, 08:28 PM
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Koen: It's comments like yours that scare people away from communicating with the Angstrom developers and using the "official" Angstrom support channels, such as the user mailing list.

walkman: I've actually found Angstrom pretty solid except for a couple little hiccups (wireless being one of them). After uninstalling the orinoco modules did you reboot your Zaurus? It's very likely that the modules are deleted from the Zaurus but still loaded in memory. Either reboot or try:
CODE
pccardctl eject
rmmod orinoco_cs
rmmod orinoco
pccardctl insert


If that works (or even if it doesn't), I would be very interested to know the output of:
CODE
pccardctl info

That information will help the Angstrom developers fix the orinoco/hostap
problem for you and people who have the same card as you.
-John
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koen
post Oct 21 2007, 12:03 AM
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QUOTE(walkman @ Oct 20 2007, 08:18 PM) *
Lack of documentation, user support


And you're not helping to solve the lack of docs since you refuse to alert the angstrom community about your problems and you further refuse to get user support through the proper channels.


QUOTE(walkman @ Oct 20 2007, 08:18 PM) *
I posted to this forum intentionally. And very well aware of the fact that I probaby won't get any help.


and yet you still complain about user support !?!?

QUOTE(walkman @ Oct 20 2007, 08:18 PM) *
I only hoped users do not.


About 99% of our users do ignore this forum, simply because they don't have a zaurus. Your problem isn't zaurus specific, so....

QUOTE(walkman @ Oct 20 2007, 08:18 PM) *
My question was user-oriented, rather than to developers.


The angstrom-*users* mailinglist exist for exactly that reason.
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walkman
post Oct 21 2007, 06:40 AM
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QUOTE(JohnX @ Oct 21 2007, 06:28 AM) *
walkman: I've actually found Angstrom pretty solid except for a couple little hiccups (wireless being one of them). After uninstalling the orinoco modules did you reboot your Zaurus? It's very likely that the modules are deleted from the Zaurus but still loaded in memory. Either reboot or try:


Thanks a lot for your help. It worker indeed smile.gif. Now I can finally start to play with the Angstrom distribution. Thanks a lot again.
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walkman
post Oct 21 2007, 06:57 AM
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Dear koen,
I am not too much in participating in some competition to show who is here better, or has a larger one. That's useless and does not help neither of us. Just please try to understand that any kind of "dictatorship" from the point of view of developers towards users is not going to make users happy, loyal, or cooperative. And as I wrote above, I believe that developers should be rather thankful to anybody trying to use their product, rather than trying to alienate them. This should lead to win-win situation instead of a "dominant vs. subversive one" kind of relationship... In the end I do not understand the policy applied on Angstrom users anyway. You should be rather happy that users flock and discuss their issues anywhere. More such places, the better PR for you, or am I wrong? That developers have no time to support more than one official place is just alright and I have no problem whatsoever to accept that policy...

QUOTE(koen @ Oct 21 2007, 10:03 AM) *
And you're not helping to solve the lack of docs since you refuse to alert the angstrom community about your problems and you further refuse to get user support through the proper channels.


I do not refuse. I think I explained my motivations and considerations well enough above.

Finally, why should I help you to improve your documentation? It is your product... I am busy enough to write documentation for my own software... Should I feel attracted to write that docs? Especially if I get this kind of "warm welcome"?

QUOTE(koen @ Oct 21 2007, 10:03 AM) *
and yet you still complain about user support !?!?


Do I? I got help as I hoped for. So I am a perfectly happy user. Do you see anything wrong with that?

QUOTE(koen @ Oct 21 2007, 10:03 AM) *
The angstrom-*users* mailinglist exist for exactly that reason.


Well, reading your reaction above, I am not sure I even want to subscribe to it... sad.gif

But let's get back to the ground now. From your last, fairly moderate, reaction (I can imagine it could be worse) I understand that you still have some interest in making me to somehow inform the Angstrom community about my issue which JohnX helped to sort out in a very friendly way (for what I am very thankful). If it is so, please tell me where and how to write about it and I am willing to give a helping hand. Provided you "stop growing me up", of course...

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koen
post Oct 21 2007, 07:31 AM
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From your reply I not that you didn't read the first 3 paragraphs of http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/
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walkman
post Oct 21 2007, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Oct 21 2007, 05:31 PM) *
From your reply I not that you didn't read the first 3 paragraphs of http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/


Of course I did. And of course I checked the Wiki, don't worry... I made my homeworks. But do I see there a more info on where exactly am I allowed to put that stuff? NO. I also read the "Note to editors" in Angstrom manual. And I certainly do not want to spoil your distribution manual with a lame edit about some driver problem, because I hardly understand how drivers in Linux work. Remember, I am a just a lame user. The provision I mentioned above also states "if in doubt, ask Ångström maintainers and developers" and that's what I did here after you joined the debate.

All in all, JohnX expressed it very well above. My feeling is, that the whole "atmosphere" around Angstrom is such that it scares users from even touching it. From a poor and almost scary (if not arrogant) points on the homepage via all that dictatorship about what user must and mustn't to finally useless and impolite attacking of people like me here. I think I tried enough to reach to you even though you offended me several times. I am fed up now.

P.S.
I am here seriously asking you for assistance, not for useless pointers and attempts to "educate" me. I do not get a serious answer, you do not get a cooperative user. Point. There's only one and at the same time a very simple way to fix all that. But the ball is on your side.
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koen
post Oct 21 2007, 08:31 AM
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I don't care for users that refuse to report their problems through proper channels, so I would be *glad* if people like you stayed away from angstrom, since you only seem to be able to complain instead of doing something, like sending a mail or reporting a bug to bugzilla. Instead you keep insisting on using a forum that is quite clearly marked as the wrong way to get support.
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JohnX
post Oct 21 2007, 08:34 AM
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I'm glad to here that worked for you. I'm still curious about the output of:
CODE
pccardctl info


If you could post that I'd appreciate it.

-John
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walkman
post Oct 21 2007, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE(JohnX @ Oct 21 2007, 06:34 PM) *
I'm glad to here that worked for you. I'm still curious about the output of:
CODE
pccardctl info


If you could post that I'd appreciate it.

-John



Here:
CODE
PRODID_1="D-Link"
PRODID_2="DCF-660W"
PRODID_3=""
PRODID_4=""
MANFID=d601,0005
FUNCID=6


Is there a place to put this info so that I can fix the mechanism properly? I do not mind to possibly provide a patch for the corresponding config file...
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walkman
post Oct 21 2007, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Oct 21 2007, 06:31 PM) *
I don't care for users that refuse to report their problems through proper channels, so I would be *glad* if people like you stayed away from angstrom, since you only seem to be able to complain instead of doing something, like sending a mail or reporting a bug to bugzilla. Instead you keep insisting on using a forum that is quite clearly marked as the wrong way to get support.


As you wish Sir.

When you will calm down, please read my lines above once again. I even explicitely expressed a willingness to put whatever information I have to a proper place. I only asked you to assist. The whole operation could be very brief and peaceful...

I am very sorry that this thread went completely off-topic and now includes even personal insultations sad.gif. I stop posting here. Makes probably no sense any more. Moreover, if you check the brief history I have on this forum, you might find that even though I am a very critical person, I am also not somebody who does not take an action when see an opportunity...
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