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> Letux 380: Small And New Linux (qt) Phone To Come, Lightweight 90g, Linux, Bluetooth, QVGA, Quadband, Camera
dhns
post Mar 24 2008, 06:49 AM
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I was offered recently a small and nice Linux PDA Phone. It has a 2.4 QVGA touchscreen, Quadband GSM, Bluetooth, Camera and runs Qtopia Phone Edition. Some experimentation has shown that it is possible to ftp/telnet into the device. And, it weights just 90g and is only approx. 2/3 of the size of the Neo 1973 although the display isn't much smaller. What do you think I should do?

-- hns

Edit: some photos are shown here: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...st&p=175686
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speculatrix
post Apr 8 2008, 12:57 PM
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OK, one final reason to use kernel >= 2.6.23 ?
android! so, just provide the base system and the software will come to you.

quoting from the elinux page, you need...
* SoC with ARM926 or higher (e.g. ARM11) (check ARM MPCore or ARM Cortex regarding TLS issue)
** Note: ARM920T with ARMv4 instruction set will not work
* You have already a recent (~2.6.23) Linux kernel with Thumb & MMU & EABI etc support running on your target
* Soc/HW has and Linux kernel supports
* Display/frame buffer (touchscreen would be good but optional). Frame buffer has to support double buffer/page flipping.
* Keyboard
* USB (optional)
* RTC (optional?)
* Serial console
* Some storage, sufficient for ~64MB, e.g. NFS or USB stick or NAND or NOR or MMC/SDcard etc. NFS would be easiest for development
* Sufficient main memory (SDRAM) >=32MB. While 32MB seems to be enough to start, system will be really slow then. Therefore 32MB is sufficient for proof of concept, but not for a usable system.
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dhns
post Apr 8 2008, 10:02 PM
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Generally, I see the benefits of a 2.6.x kernel, but let me compare a "Dreamliner" vs. a "737".

While the first will have the latest technology, more distance etc., the latter is robust and mature and simply works for the masses.

And, they are used for different purposes. Would anyone expect that the 737 is upgraded to the engines of a "Dreamliner" for intercontinental flights? Probably not. The 737 is a system where all components are adjusted homogenously to each other.

Coming back to the Letux 380 device. It is more like a "737", small, useable, mature. The 2.4 kernel simply works. So, why change a running system? Who would spend money for doing that? Or do it just for fun? Sadly, the current economical situation permits less and less volunteers to work on it.

So, opening Linux devices is like squaring the circle. There are basically three different approaches:

1. retrofit Linux on a Win device: the handhelds.org (OpenEZX, Xanadux, ...) approach (needs volunteers who need years to analyse the device beyond their market availability)
2. develop an open Linux hardware from scratch: the Openmoko approach (needs a lot of funding and is commercially questionable)
3. find a manufacturer who already has a working Linux device and discuss to open it: the Letux 380 approach (we can't change anything in hardware)

As you can see none of these approaches is "optimal".

-- hns
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koen
post Apr 8 2008, 11:40 PM
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QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 07:02 AM) *
The 2.4 kernel simply works. So, why change a running system?


Because right now your system runs much slower and consumes much more power than with a kernel that isn't from 2002.
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dhns
post Apr 9 2008, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE(koen @ Apr 9 2008, 09:40 AM) *
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 07:02 AM) *
The 2.4 kernel simply works. So, why change a running system?


Because right now your system runs much slower and consumes much more power than with a kernel that isn't from 2002.

Assuming that a 2002 kernel needs more power is a pure myth. This device gets up to 240min talk time and 200h standby from a 1020mAh battery. How much could a 2.6 kernel improve on that?

And, where can you really buy a 2.6 kernel device today (i.e. April 2008) that is mature and user-ready?

I would be happy to offer a newer kernel - but nobody could tell me so far how to get that without any effort or paying a lot of money towards the manufacturer. Anyway that would make the device more expensive. It would be like asking Boeing to improve the 737 with a better engine from the Dreamliner. That takes years and millions.

It is not an objection against any 2.6 kernel - it is simply that we can get a working 2.4 kernel based device now or have someone to build a 2.6 kernel in some unknown future. But, I doubt that the improvements are that important that a 2.4 kernel is not good enough for the majority of applications.

-- hns

PS: the last official patch to the 2.4.36.2 kernel series dates from 24 Feb 2008.
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Posts in this topic
dhns   Letux 380: Small And New Linux (qt) Phone To Come   Mar 24 2008, 06:49 AM
Dromede   Motorola A1200?   Mar 24 2008, 07:23 AM
dhns   QUOTE(Dromede @ Mar 24 2008, 04:23 PM) Mo...   Mar 24 2008, 07:50 AM
canguy247   Mail it to me...   Mar 24 2008, 07:45 AM
dhns   QUOTE(canguy247 @ Mar 24 2008, 04:45 PM) ...   Mar 24 2008, 07:51 AM
zmiq2   no 3G? then you shouldn't consider it ...   Mar 25 2008, 03:02 AM
dhns   QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 12:02 PM) no 3...   Mar 25 2008, 03:05 AM
zmiq2   Nowadays, for a mobile equipment, I find it more u...   Mar 25 2008, 05:00 AM
dhns   QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 02:00 PM) Nowa...   Mar 25 2008, 05:08 AM
zmiq2   Uhm.. I see But if all connectivity I have is blu...   Mar 25 2008, 05:17 AM
dhns   QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 02:17 PM) But ...   Mar 25 2008, 05:23 AM
zmiq2   And for plain phone calls and SMS Linux has no rea...   Mar 25 2008, 08:33 AM
dhns   QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 05:33 PM) And ...   Mar 25 2008, 11:42 AM
dhns   So, here are some photos. What is your impression?...   Mar 26 2008, 12:00 AM
speculatrix   a very interesting device. if you take the battery...   Mar 26 2008, 04:05 PM
dhns   QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 27 2008, 01:05 AM...   Mar 26 2008, 11:02 PM
stupkid   On a completely different subject, did you find th...   Mar 27 2008, 09:00 AM
dhns   QUOTE(stupkid @ Mar 27 2008, 06:00 PM) On...   Mar 28 2008, 12:28 PM
dhns   Here, I have two screen photos showing text input ...   Mar 29 2008, 01:09 AM
LinuxGadget   Finish?! And the company is ... SCNR   Mar 29 2008, 06:52 AM
dhns   QUOTE(LinuxGadget @ Mar 29 2008, 03:52 PM...   Mar 29 2008, 08:53 AM
dhns   The device has got a name: Letux 380 Dear all, no...   Mar 31 2008, 09:52 AM
koen   QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 06:52 PM) [*] b...   Apr 1 2008, 01:37 AM
dhns   QUOTE(koen @ Apr 1 2008, 11:37 AM) QUOTE(...   Apr 1 2008, 01:49 AM
speculatrix   QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 1 2008, 10:49 AM) 2.4 an...   Apr 1 2008, 02:10 AM
dhns   QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2008, 12:10 PM)...   Apr 1 2008, 02:35 AM
speculatrix   the kernel, AIUI, in openmoko is pretty stable. al...   Apr 1 2008, 02:45 AM
dhns   QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2008, 12:45 PM)...   Apr 2 2008, 08:52 PM
LinuxGadget   Sorry dhns, i really appreciate your efforts aroun...   Apr 3 2008, 08:58 AM
dhns   QUOTE(LinuxGadget @ Apr 3 2008, 06:58 PM)...   Apr 3 2008, 09:10 AM
HoloVector   QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 2 2008, 11:52 PM) QUOTE(...   Apr 3 2008, 09:46 AM
dhns   QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 07:52 PM) busy...   Apr 2 2008, 08:50 PM
speculatrix   a year or more ago I'd have been very interest...   Mar 31 2008, 01:02 PM
dhns   QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 31 2008, 11:02 PM...   Mar 31 2008, 11:01 PM
Jon_J   QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 12:52 PM) [[*] ...   Mar 31 2008, 02:22 PM
koen   Missing in 2.4: * decent powermanagement * decent...   Apr 3 2008, 09:44 AM
speculatrix   OK, one final reason to use kernel >= 2.6.23 ? ...   Apr 8 2008, 12:57 PM
dhns   Generally, I see the benefits of a 2.6.x kernel, b...   Apr 8 2008, 10:02 PM
koen   QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 07:02 AM) The 2....   Apr 8 2008, 11:40 PM
dhns   QUOTE(koen @ Apr 9 2008, 09:40 AM) QUOTE(...   Apr 9 2008, 12:11 AM
koen   QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 09:11 AM) PS: th...   Apr 9 2008, 07:58 AM
dhns   QUOTE(koen @ Apr 9 2008, 05:58 PM) QUOTE(...   Apr 9 2008, 08:17 AM
koen   QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 05:17 PM) QUOTE(...   Apr 10 2008, 12:53 AM
daniel3000   Yes, that's the old discussion... I definitely...   Apr 9 2008, 01:55 AM
dhns   QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Apr 9 2008, 11:55 AM) ...   Apr 9 2008, 03:07 AM
Ragnorok   QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Apr 9 2008, 09:55 AM) ...   Apr 9 2008, 12:02 PM
speculatrix   2.6 is a proven kernel for an embedded mass-market...   Apr 9 2008, 02:22 AM
dhns   QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 9 2008, 12:22 PM)...   Apr 9 2008, 03:03 AM
speculatrix   QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 12:03 PM) Let...   Apr 9 2008, 04:43 AM


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