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> Bochs (x86 emulator) on VGA Zaurus? Anyone?
Have you ever run Bochs on a VGA Zaurus machine before?
Have you ever run Bochs on a VGA Zaurus machine before?
Yes. It was easy [ 5 ] ** [10.42%]
Yes. It took a while to figure out and tweak. [ 7 ] ** [14.58%]
No. Tried, but couldn't get it to work [ 10 ] ** [20.83%]
No. Never Tried. [ 26 ] ** [54.17%]
Total Votes: 27
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datajerk
post Jun 18 2004, 09:50 AM
Post #46





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Ok, got the performance problem fixed. ips: 750000. The default ips was too high.

Typing in DOS and the display is realtime.
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Reaper
post Jun 18 2004, 12:12 PM
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I tried Bochs (under Qtopia) and Dosbox (under pdaX). I can say that Bochs is much harder to tune, and it's a little faster than Dosbox (but only a LITTLE, it's almost insignificant). Dosbox is simple enough to configure (write parameters into dosbox.conf file and edit it, Dosbox will recognize it and use the new parameters). It's a pity that I haven't managed to get it running even with the speed of 286-10 (the screen redrawing is VERY slow, no matter how many frames it skips, and even Adlib support makes things to be MUCH worse). It would be very nice if someone could achieve the performance of 286 - most of the games I want to run on my Z require nothing more.
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 18 2004, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE
I built the latest version of bochs (2.1.1) and have it running on Xqt.


Hey, dj. By Xqt do you mean X11/pdaX ROM?

QUOTE
I also built in the VNC protocol.  I will try plain text and SDL later, but only if there is interest and only if the performance does suck (e.g. dir<enter>, then d i r appear at one sec interval, then the output (thats fast)).  I am using the freedos image link from bochs and it is very slow.


Scrap the freeDOS. Seriously. It is probably the reason that Bochs has gotten the reputation of being so slow, IMHO. PC DOS 7 is running more or less at real PC speeds for me.

Dir listings flash right up. But my own main reason for working on DOS in Bochs is trying to get the HP200LX CPACK200 to run on my C860 as a "stopgap".

I looked at DOSbox but it was rather poorly documented on how to get it up & running. The Bochs IPK that I located ran right from install. All that was needed besides the IPK was the bootable IMG.

I *LIKE* **THAT** kind of consideration (G).

QUOTE
Howerver only 4MB of ram is used and it appears stable.  I have not tested audio either.  I do not know DOS, I thought I'd just take a look at it.

Advice on how to best test this?


I'm going to try some of my old benchmarking softwsre this weekend to see what kind of performance is reported. Actually, to emulate plain DOS, only 1Mb RAM plus maybe some for overhead SHOULD be needed.

Thanks for the input!!
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datajerk
post Jun 18 2004, 01:53 PM
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ips: 750000 and freedos is now fast. I will build an SDL version as soon as I get the zports dev tree to link to.

I am currently testing X11 with Cacko 1.21b with Xqt for X.

dmame kills it with RIP > CS.limit. I need some DOS code to test. I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.

Also is there a recommendation on VBE vs no-VBE?

Thanks.
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 18 2004, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE
I tried Bochs (under Qtopia) and Dosbox (under pdaX). I can say that Bochs is much harder to tune, and it's a little faster than Dosbox (but only a LITTLE, it's almost insignificant).


Reaper - Found that the terminal console makes a MAJOR difference in Bochs performance. No disrespect, but I don't want to have to flash an X ROM just to run an emulator of a *simple* DOS system (aka HP200LX).

If it won't run with a stock Sharp ROM, its not what I need.

QUOTE
Dosbox is simple enough to configure (write parameters into dosbox.conf file and edit it, Dosbox will recognize it and use the new parameters).


I could NOT find a comprehensive FAQ for setting up DOSbox. Major points against it, in my book.

The Bochs that I'm using is the same as what you describe. Text config file that can be specified when Bochs initiates. Very easy to modify.

QUOTE
It's a pity that I haven't managed to get it running even with the speed of 286-10 (the screen redrawing is VERY slow, no matter how many frames it skips, and even Adlib support makes things to be MUCH worse).


PC DOS 7 under the old Bochs is running at "normal" speeds for me. Of course, I'm not trying any fancy stuf like sound, etc and the display is somewhat mangled with ^Ds and the like once the DOS apps run. But its early in the "game". (G)

QUOTE
It would be very nice if someone could achieve the performance of 286 - most of the games I want to run on my Z require nothing more.


What I'd like to see right now, is some way to emulate ALT keys & F1 - F10 keys. I haven't gotten Keyhelper to do either one and these two are essential to a LOT of DOS apps operations.

But ..... only starting out. And I would say, yes, I get what I would call 286 speeds (except for that %^$#!)&*^% CPACK! grrrrr).

Thanks for the info!
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datajerk
post Jun 18 2004, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE
PC DOS 7 under the old Bochs is running at "normal" speeds for me. Of course, I'm not trying any fancy stuf like sound, etc and the display is somewhat mangled with ^Ds and the like once the DOS apps run. But its early in the "game". (G)  

I think I am getting good speeds with freedos so far. From # /tmp/bochs to c:> 15 sec boot time using 2.11 with the X windows interface. The screen looks like a perfect PC screen. No strange characters. Ctrl-C locks it up however for a long time (10-15 sec). Full screen edit works realtime. If PC DOC 7 will improve this I will switch to that.
QUOTE
What I'd like to see right now, is some way to emulate ALT keys & F1 - F10 keys. I haven't gotten Keyhelper to do either one and these two are essential to a LOT of DOS apps operations.

This should be easy with xmodmap if you are running Xqt on Sharp or Cacko ROM with bochs x display.
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 18 2004, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE
ips: 750000 and freedos is now fast.  I will build an SDL version as soon as I get the zports dev tree to link to.


Great! I'll kick my BOCHSRC up to 750,000 ips then! Thanks! I felt bad reporting such dismal results for FreeDOS, since it *is* a worthy effort.

QUOTE
I need some DOS code to test.  I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.


What type DOS stuff you want? I still have tons of old shareware - freeware CDs stacked up (G).

QUOTE
Also is there a recommendation on VBE vs no-VBE?

Thanks.


No opinion from here yet. Will fuminate (er, make that RUMINATE - danged ham handed fingers) on it.

Thanks, again! Working together we all can get this sucker flying, I believe.

I'm going to *have* to make the time to get a cross compiler for the Z functional (sigh .... G)
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 18 2004, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE
This should be easy with xmodmap if you are running Xqt on Sharp or Cacko ROM with bochs x display.


Tell me more, amigo. My first C860 has to go back for repairs but when it returns, I'll have my "sacrificial" test bed back to torture any way I want without worrying about temporarily bricking it up (G).

From what I've seen so far, you gotta work REALLY hard to completely brick the C860!! Just some downtimes take longer to recover from.
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datajerk
post Jun 18 2004, 02:31 PM
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Just install Xqt (xqt.sourceforge.net) it runs on any sharp or sharp-based ROM. Start up X with a window manager (I prefer fluxbox), then run bochs with display set to x in bochsrc.

Xqt is just an X server for Qtopia.

Pic:



bochsrc:

romimage: file=BIOS-bochs-latest, address=0xf0000
megs: 1
vgaromimage: VGABIOS-lgpl-latest
floppya: 1_44=a.img, status=inserted
floppyb: 1_44=b.img, status=inserted
#diskc: file=c.img, cyl=121, heads=4, spt=17
diskc: file=c.img, cyl=306, heads=4, spt=17
#diskc: file=c.img, cyl=900, heads=15, spt=17
boot: c
#log: out.bochs
log: /dev/null
mouse: enabled=0
ips: 800000
display_library: x
pit: realtime=0

As for xmodmap, I'll have to play with it. Keyhelper is being used to set the to keys next to '-' as ctrl and alt. You should be able to set alt-1 as F1.
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 18 2004, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE
Just install Xqt (xqt.sourceforge.net) it runs on any sharp or sharp-based ROM.  Start up X with a window manager (I prefer fluxbox), then run bochs with display set to x in bochsrc.

Xqt is just an X server for Qtopia.


Hey, now THATS *very* nice! You've "talked" me into it, dj (G).

QUOTE
As for xmodmap, I'll have to play with it.  Keyhelper is being used to set the to keys next to '-' as ctrl and alt.  You should be able to set alt-1 as F1.


Yeh. KeyhelperConfig shows them as CTL & ALT and the scan code DOS util shows the CTL combos, but all the ALT key combos come out as ESC.

The 1, 2, 3 & 4 keys don't seem to work "normally" in combo even in terminal alone. I'll make a list of the exact results that I'm getting after I've had some shut eye (G). Old man's gotta get his rest in.

THANKS! I'll start on Xqt tomorrow!
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 18 2004, 07:36 PM
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OK, friends & "neighbors". Some interesting results to share. These come from Landmark's SPEED200 utility, v2.00 1990.

One of my stock HP200LXs tested out equivalent to a 4Mhz AT; CPU Clock 5.948Mhz; no FPU; CGA video at 1342.08 char/ms.

At 500,000 ips, Bochs DOS on a C860 with stock Sharp ROM v1.31, *independent* of the DOS type, the console type and the VGA BIOS image (!), tested equivalent to a 5Mhz AT; 80486 class processor; CPU Clock at 0.524Mhz (yes, thats what it said each time); 20Mhz 80287 FPU; VGA video at 995 char/ms.

FreeDOS was noticably slower in responce to key input than PC DOS 7 and Qkonsole was noticably more sluggish with each OS than when they ran under the embedded Konsole. It seems to be a key stroke buffer related delay, from what I could see.

Kicking up to 750,000 ips (THANKS, dj!), Bochs DOS became equivalent to an 8Mhz AT; 80486 class processor; CPU Clock 0.786Mhz (yes, again, thats what it said each time); 30Mhz 80287 FPU & VGA video at 1495 char/ms. Again, the figures were independent of the flavor of DOS, the terminal type, the VGA ROM image type & the perceived responciveness of the system.

Not too shabby really. But its been a long day at the lab, so I fogged out early & faded before I got too deeply into tweaking. That way lieth my "all nighter" sessions (G).
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BjoKa
post Jun 19 2004, 04:23 AM
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Hi!

Reading the whole thread, what about using (parts of) qemu or bochs to run third-party, binary-only kernel modules? Can it be done? For example the binary-only part of nokia-d211 GSM/GPRS Modem card would be interesting. (nokia ships a nokia_cs source-code which links to a binary-only lib doing the real work.)

BjoKa
P.S.: Does anybody know of a GSM/GPRS card compatible with the zaurus? Searching a day now, but didn't find any clear answer sad.gif
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 19 2004, 07:29 AM
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QUOTE
Hi!

P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!


Howdy, BjoKa. Post was just fine. Can't answer your questions myself, but I anyone CAN, this is the place that you'll find them (G).

Welcome, friend!
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dh
post Jun 19 2004, 07:38 AM
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QUOTE
P.S.: Does anybody know of a GSM/GPRS card compatible with the zaurus? Searching a day now, but didn't find any clear answer sad.gif
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!

Hi Bjoka. You would have more people see your question if you had started a new thread on it. In anycase, there is some info on GPRS scattered around the site.

I found this thread http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...&highlight=gprs which might be helpful.

When you are searching on ZUG, I've found it best to use the search link on the forum section, not the one on the front page. If you do a search on GPRS you'll find a lot of other threads to check out as well.

Welcome and good luck.
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Miami_Bob
post Jun 19 2004, 12:39 PM
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datajerk - Well, I checked the X/Qt Server Project pages. An over abundance of options & downloads there (G).

Could I possibly persuade you to give us a mini FAQ (here or in its own spin off thread) on which IPKs are needed for minimum xqt installation, some of the Tricks, Traps, Got'chas & such that you have learned from by your experiences and any other details to help us jump start the learning curve?

TIA!!
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