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speculatrix
photos here:
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/5749.html

shame about the screen rez. looks very sexy! tongue.gif

"Rugged Olympus R1000 runs CE .NET, Qtopia
By Jørgen Sundgot, Friday 28 January 2005 E-mail story Print story


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Running either Windows CE .NET 4.2 or the Linux-based Qtopia platform version 1.7, Olympus' newest handheld can take a punch or two.

TOP STORY: Rugged Olympus R1000 runs CE .NET, Qtopia

Making its first foray into the handheld market, Olympus has launched the R1000, a rugged handheld capable of running both Windows- and Linux-based operating system. Adhering to IP54 Category II specifications on dust and water splash resistance, the new ruggedized handheld is targeted towards the enterprise, offering a powerful set of specifications in a surprisingly slim form factor.

Weighing 180 g and measuring 5.2" x 3" x 0.6", the R1000 can be delivered either with Windows CE .NET 4.2 or the Linux based Qtopia 1.7 platform. Withstanding drops of 4 feet to concrete, there are two models available: the R1000 and R1018. Both models are powered by a Motorola Freescale MXL and feature 3.5", 65K colour transflective TFT screens with a resolution of 320 x 240 pixels and scratch-resistant coating.

Other shared specifications include variable RAM/ROM configurations varying from 64-128 MB RAM and 64-256 MB ROM. Also, both models feature USB, Infrared and Bluetooth connectivity, however only the R1018 offers integrated Wi-Fi 802.11b support. "
Neverwinter
I'd like to buy it. I think I'd rather have Win CE .Net than Windows Mobile Pocket PC. The buttons on it look very cool too. Does anyone want to break out the news about when it might come out? Any insiders?
nilch
The picture looked more like a CAD rendering rather than a actual PDA photo.
tumnus
It's missing a keyboard though. Whenever I pick up another PDA i realise how much I've come to depend on all the hardware keys and the keyboard itself that the Zaurus has. Having a keyboard makes it so much more useful for taking notes in meetings and on the move (i.e. chatting with a colleague in a corridor). I used to have a Stowaway keyboard with my old Handspring Visor, which was cool, but it still meant another block to carry around and could only be used on a stable surface.
spaul
The keyboard rocks. Even on a 5600 i can do 25 wpm. just got the 860. I read somewhere that msft actively discourages keyboards on pdas with their os.
Tyris
QUOTE(spaul @ Jan 28 2005, 03:53 PM)
The keyboard rocks.  Even on a 5600 i can do 25 wpm.  just got the 860.  I read somewhere that msft actively discourages keyboards on pdas with their os.
*


Screen and lack of keyboard are the biggest drawbacks to the R1000. Hate to admit it, Im spoiled by the screen on the sl6000, anything less now feels cramped and doesnt work for well web browsing sad.gif Also running windows on a PDA feels like computing with hand cuffs on, nothing is configurable, and reduces the device from being a small customizable linux box to a really dumbed down and limited computer.

-T
boosalis
Maybe I missed it, but it looks like there is no CF slot ? Anybody know for sure
lpotter
With 256 mb rom and 128 ram, you won't really need cf. It's got builtin wifi and bluetooth.

http://www.olympus-ost.com/products_R1000_sp.htm
kopsis
QUOTE(lpotter @ Jan 29 2005, 04:48 AM)
With 256 mb rom and 128 ram, you won't really need cf. It's got builtin wifi and bluetooth.

I don't mean to be rude, but are you crazy?! I have a 4GB microdrive and a 512MB SD card in my 760 and I still wish I had more storage! Maybe for joe sixpack's PDA 256MB of flash is fine, but Zaurus folks are far from your typical PDA users.
kahm
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 29 2005, 02:24 PM)
QUOTE(lpotter @ Jan 29 2005, 04:48 AM)
With 256 mb rom and 128 ram, you won't really need cf. It's got builtin wifi and bluetooth.

I don't mean to be rude, but are you crazy?! I have a 4GB microdrive and a 512MB SD card in my 760 and I still wish I had more storage! Maybe for joe sixpack's PDA 256MB of flash is fine, but Zaurus folks are far from your typical PDA users.
*



I have to agree. I've got a 1gb SD card in my 860, and I'm eagerly awaiting the time I get my 3000 with the built in HD - so I can swap microdrives, SD cards, and STILL have lots of "permanent" storage.

Closer to the original topic, it is a shame about the screen. I was thinking about getting the Archos jukebox that runs Qtopia - until I found out that it only had a 320x240 screen.

640x480 is now the absolute minimum I'll accept for a PDA screen.
amrein
The Olympus R1000 Pda is not just a PDA. It's a Rugged hand-held device.

IP54 mean you can drop it on concret floor or that it will still be alive and working if you put it into water during 30mn. The kind of device you need if it rains a lot where you are.

Adding CF is very hard on this kind of device (I already saw SD/MMC connectors but never CF). Adding external storage is hard when you want to still be IP54, you need to use an IP54 enable internal reader and IP54 door for the card...

No SD/MMC is understandable and the price rise if you still want external media.
fastscirocco
QUOTE(amrein @ Jan 30 2005, 04:25 AM)
The Olympus R1000 Pda is not just a PDA. It's a Rugged hand-held device.

IP54 mean you can drop it on concret floor or that it will still be alive and working if you put it into water during 30mn. The kind of device you need if it rains a lot where you are.



Not know what IP54 was I started researching....and found this:

What is the IEC IP54 enclosure standard?
The IEC IP54 standard is a way to classify the degree of protection provided by the enclosures of electrical equipment. It tells the user how much resistance to dust and water the product can withstand and still operate correctly.

IP-54 – designates the degree of water and dust resistance provided by the Rugged Case.
The "5" means dust protected. Ingress of dust is not totally prevented, but dust does not enter in sufficient quantities to interfere with satisfactory operation of the equipment. The "4" means "Protected against splashing water. Water splashed against the enclosure from any direction shall have no harmful effect." The IP designation is contained in IEC 60529 – Degrees of protection provided by enclosures (IP Code), an international standard that is maintained by the International Electro technical Commission (IEC). The IEC is an international standards and conformity assessment body for all fields of electro technology.

Just thought others might have the same question I did.
lpotter
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 30 2005, 12:24 AM)
QUOTE(lpotter @ Jan 29 2005, 04:48 AM)
With 256 mb rom and 128 ram, you won't really need cf. It's got builtin wifi and bluetooth.

I don't mean to be rude, but are you crazy?! I have a 4GB microdrive and a 512MB SD card in my 760 and I still wish I had more storage! Maybe for joe sixpack's PDA 256MB of flash is fine, but Zaurus folks are far from your typical PDA users.
*




They aren't targetting Zaurus users. They are targetting 'joe sixpack' - more of them around.

Really, if you need GB's of storage you don't need a pda, IMHO.

The specs say the Olympus device can run up to 12 hours. I can't imagine 12 hours of useage with a screen twice it's resolution, a huge microdrive and expansive flash space. That goes for the Archos device as well.

The Archos device has a specialized screen for better battery consumption as well as better video playback. It beats the Zaurus video playback by far, and battery life is better because of it's design.

All these things - flash, microdrive, cd and sd slots all take power to even be on the device.
boosalis
The CF slot would be nice for non storage devices such as a
barcode scanner, or wireless modem (both of which I currently use)
A GPS receiver would be another good use for CF slot.
Cresho
you guys are freakin crazy if im gona drop down to a no cf. I take pictures with a camera which has an xd card which i use a card adaptor to transfer pictures from cf to sd on the zaurus for extra saving. My camera takes really good pictures and when i fill up the 64mb card, i dump it into the zaurus.

I also have a camera that records asf files 720x480 res movies on an sd. im anxiously waiting on that 50 dollars i need to get a zaurus sl3000.

any other pda is useless for me in my opinion. and carying a pda which i can play my recorded pictues, audio, or even video on the fly is something to look at.

screw laptops and i want my storage!

ohh by the way, my sd card is 1gb and can store 4 hour of video at high resolution at asf file. I just hope the zaurus can play it back. the video camera is pocket size too!
kopsis
QUOTE(lpotter @ Jan 30 2005, 06:25 PM)
They aren't targetting Zaurus users. They are targetting 'joe sixpack' - more of them around.

Really, if you need GB's of storage you don't need a pda, IMHO.


You're right, I don't need a PDA. Neither does Joe Sixpack nor anyone else with an average mobile phone. My middle-of-the-road Sony Ericsson T610 does a great job of managing my contacts and calendar and it syncs seamlessly (and wirelessly) with Outlook on my PC.

So if I'm going to be compelled to shell out a bunch of money for another device that I'm going to carry around everywhere, then it better do a whole lot more than my phone can. And as phone capabilities continue to grow, it continues to raise the bar for other handheld electronics.

Currently the three things that compel me (and most of the others on this forum) to carry the Zaurus are display, keyboard, and storage ... all things that the Olympus (and most other PDAs) are currently lacking. And it's the synergy between those elements that makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. Lose any one and the value of the other two drops dramatically.

As I've said before, the market for traditional PDAs is dead. For Joe Sixpack, who is already carrying a phone and an iPod, a PDA is completely unnecessary. Today, any conventional PDA design is doomed to failure. Most people (myself included) won't carry three devices. So a handheld has to completely replace the phone or the media player and offer enough compelling additional capabilities to choose it over the more specialized (easier to use) device.

Now, in all fairness, I don't think Olympus is targeting Joe Sixpack. They appear to be targeting industrial use (much like Sharp's original plans for the SL-6000) hence the ruggedization. But if that is indeed their goal, they didn't specialize enough to compete with devices from folks like Symbol and Intermec. I think Sharp found that out the hard way with the 6000 and it's a lesson Olympus will quickly learn too.
boosalis
I don't belieive this Olympus PDA really qualifies as being rugged, not for harsh environments anyway, at least if it is built like the Zaurus 6000L. I was talking to a salesperson for Intermec and Symbol devices, I had my 6000L and he had his Intermec device. He tossed his device over his shoulder (reaching a height of 6+ feet) where it landed on the ground. The unit was built so rugged the fall to the floor was no different then lightly resting it on the table. And I got the feeling he does this little demo ten times a day on his sales calls.

So what value does this Olympus device bring to the table, its not a rugged PDA for field use, and it lacks a lot of expansion found on other consumer PDA's. Not to mention the keyboard and a high resolutin screen. The verdict on such a product has already been reached with the Sharp Zaurus, Why Olympus wants to reapeat this experiment is really a puzzle.
adf
maybe they figure that if they advertise, place the devices on store shelves, provide support, and generally make it less of a mystic quest to find a configure one, they will sell. people pay for windows. why would they not pay for this if it is pushed in their faces, and alternatives remain unknown?
clivel
QUOTE(boosalis @ Jan 31 2005, 09:26 AM)
The verdict on such a product has already been reached with the Sharp Zaurus, Why Olympus wants to reapeat this experiment is really a puzzle.
*

Maybe because Olympus has a real marketing department, who actually intend marketing the device and maybe even listen to their customers.
Also, if you look at what is currently available to the majority of PDA users, most of whom have never heard of Zaurus, 320x240 with no keyboard is the norm. Only a few of the really top end Pocket PC devices have recently come out with 640x480. I recently skimmed a copy of "Pocket PC" magazine at the newstand, there was plenty of discussion about some of the "innovations" in the latest Pocket PC devices, yet none of them have yet caught up to the Zaurus.
Regards,
Clive
boosalis
QUOTE(adf @ Jan 31 2005, 09:41 AM)
maybe they figure that if they advertise, place the devices on store shelves, provide support, and generally make it less of a mystic quest to find a configure one, they will sell. people pay for windows. why would they not pay for this if it is pushed in their faces, and alternatives remain unknown?
*



Its going to be relegated to the bottom shelf next to the 5.25" floppies as IPAQ's , Palm's and smart phones make this device DOA (Dead on Arrival).
adf
maybe so, but aren't axims making headway?
clivel
QUOTE(Neverwinter @ Jan 28 2005, 01:26 PM)
I'd like to buy it.  I think I'd rather have Win CE .Net than Windows Mobile Pocket PC. 
*

Microsoft believes in marketing through obfuscation: Microsoft took Windows CE V3.0, customised it, and supplied the customised version to pda manufacturers as the "Pocket PC" platform, and later as the "Pocket PC 2002" platform.
Then M$ released Windows CE V4.0, however for some misguided marketing reason, they also decided to call Windows CE version V4.0 and newer CE.NET. Windows CE V4.2 (now also know as CE.NET), is the basis for "Pocket PC 2003".
So whether you buy a device based on Windows Mobile Pocket PC, or Win CE.NET, you are essentially still getting the same crappy operating system.
Confused? I think either that that is what Microsoft intended, or their marketing department has been taken over by refugees from some govenment bureaucracy.
Regards,
Clive
kopsis
QUOTE(clivel @ Jan 31 2005, 02:42 PM)
So whether you buy a device based on Windows Mobile Pocket PC, or Win CE.NET, you are essentially still getting the same crappy operating system.

Except that CE.NET is missing a number of "Pocket PC" shell APIs upon which many Pocket PC apps rely. Olympus decision to go with a version of CE that won't support many of the most popular Pocket PC apps pushes this PDA even further out of the consumer market. I don't care how many $$$ Olympus throws into marketing, as soon as people realize that they can't run their favorite PPC apps, it's dead in the water (at least in the US).
adf
Maybe so. My experience, and I bet yours too kopsis (as you do gov't type stuff) is that people frequently buy dysfunctional crap at outrageous prices. this has issues, certainly, but there are more dysfunctional crappier gadgets being bought from "big-name" vendors. It just might survive.

I am, of course a bitter and cynical ex-Amiga user, who got to watch Amiga be eclipsed by windows 3.x. After seeing that I am willing to believe almost any ad-based depravity on the part of the general consumer. blink.gif
clivel
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 31 2005, 12:28 PM)
Except that CE.NET is missing a number of "Pocket PC" shell APIs upon which many Pocket PC apps rely. Olympus decision to go with a version of CE that won't support many of the most popular Pocket PC apps pushes this PDA even further out of the consumer market. I don't care how many $$$ Olympus throws into marketing, as soon as people realize that they can't run their favorite PPC apps, it's dead in the water (at least in the US).
*

You are correct, CE.NET ( or WinCE 4.2) , does leave out many of the shell APIs, however I tend to think that whomever wrote the press release probably got confused. The press release mentions Windows CE .NET 4.2, which is the underlying OS of Pocket PC 2003, which is what they are probably going to use, I guess.
If not then I should imagine that Olympus has hijacked Sharp's Zaurus marketing team lock, stock, and barrel, which can only bode well for the Zaurus line smile.gif
Regards,
Clive
kopsis
QUOTE(clivel @ Jan 31 2005, 04:47 PM)
... however I tend to think that whomever wrote the press release probably got confused.

Well, then the art department did too because the picture clearly shows WinCE without the PocketPC shell smile.gif
Streamline
OK enough speculations here is the deal. I spoke with the VP of marketing for this unit today. Here is the details they are about 30 days from launching this unit "if" all goes well with testing. There looks to be 2 units the R1000 and another model R1018 with the built in Wifi which is 60 days out. The estimated cost $899 for the R1000 $1049 for WIFI version. Acording to him after Sharp pulled out of the PDA market in the U.S this sparked a new line for Olympus to capitalize. No keyboard. He is mailing me more details on the product and I will post more details as they become available to me. He was very interested in comments on the unit as it is in the finishing stages.

Operating System = Windows CE.net 4.2
Embedded Linux 2.4.18 (qtopia 1.7.0)
boosalis
The speculation sounded better
adf
er.... is this more or less a thousand dollar 5x00 minus the keyboard?
does it do anything special that , say, a 5500 doesn't, or can't?
$150 for wifi?
the extra memory is nice and all, and I don't know the processor, maybe it really rocks.but more hardware with better software for fewer dollars would be my suggestion here. Why no 2.6? surely olympus isn't waiting on sharp, or some overworked opensource developers?
why not Qtopia 2.1?
I hope I'm wrong, and this thing has some killer hidden features... but I'd take a z3000 +$200 or a z6000+ $400 over this anyday. In fact I got a 6000 and $500+ less.
You see where I'm going with this...

adf

ps.. it is nice to see someone releasing linux devices though. smile.gif
johnw
Here is yet another reference to the R1000:

Olympus’s tough R1000 CE (or Linux) handheld
Streamline
Here is the specs via there pdf on it. If you wanna contact them with your questions I have a mail for you. He said he would love to hear everyones goods and bads. handhelds@buytoughpc.com
Merardon
12 hour battery life, and that's with wireless connectivity on? It doesn't look that bad, I think. My major problems with it would be those already mentioned: Windows CE, and the lack of a keyboard, although I can live with the latter if necessary.
nilch
Now when they say it supports WinCE and Qtopia, is that both at the same time (as partitioned spaces) or either/or ?

I guess part of the premium would be for having to pay both MS and Trolltech for two platforms (dont know if the Qtopia is indeed the commercial one from Trolltech - must be). If it indeed does support switching between the two platforms as easily as many dual boot systems like QT and PDAXROM, then that must be an added advantage (though I dont see why I would ever switch to the WinCE part of the system).

But still a non-VGA display without a keyboard too doesnt really cut the mustard.
Streamline
I believe this is an "either" or solution
adf
if olympus really wants feedback, then here is mine:
3 models
1). small light, cheap qvga no keyboard $300
2). midrange ,vga a little more grunt, min 64 megs ram, not sure about keyboard @ $450-500? might still get hosed by the z clamshells....
3). micro laptop/clamshell design, maybe even a little heftier than the z clamshells
possibly dual arm, or something with floating point?? possibly 800x600 display- no less than vga, plenty of ram usb, plenty of expansion, onboard wireless & bluetooth. this would justify the $1000 plus pricetag.
keep in mind that the price of the oly 1000 is laptop range....without being functionally competitive.
clivel
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 31 2005, 02:15 PM)
QUOTE(clivel @ Jan 31 2005, 04:47 PM)
... however I tend to think that whomever wrote the press release probably got confused.

Well, then the art department did too because the picture clearly shows WinCE without the PocketPC shell smile.gif
*


Thanks, your eyes are obviously better than mine. I hadn't really studied the pictures closely.
The spec sheet posted by Streamline also confirms the Wince 4.2. Ah well, another device dead in the water before it is actually released. I can only conclude that they are aiming it at the rugeddised industrial market, competing with Symbol, Psion-Teklogic, etc.
It doesn't seem to offer any compelling reason for the average PDA user or hacker to get one. For Linux hackers, we are far better served by the Zaurus devices, and for those that want the other OS, the Dell Axims or HP Ipaqs seem to have the market pretty much tied up (and have a host of 3rd party apps that the Olympus won't run).
At this point, unless Trolltech manages to get some heavyweight phone manufacturers on board, I think that Sharp has effectivley killed the Linux PDA market outside of Asia,
Regards,
Clive
adf
I don't know if sharp has killed the linux pda market outside asia. I think it is more a matter there being no well-thought-out reasonably priced devices being marketed today. Right now, those who know can import, tomorrow things may be different.
maslovsky
Specs are very strange: what is the CPU speed? What is the actual capacity of the battery - XX hours means nothing to me. Is battery replacable? No SD slot? No USB host?
boosalis
QUOTE(Streamline @ Feb 1 2005, 07:52 AM)
I believe this is an "either" or solution
*


One good thing about it being windows and linux compatable, is that if this device fails in the market they can't blame it on linux.
lpotter
QUOTE(clivel @ Feb 2 2005, 03:48 AM)
At this point, unless Trolltech manages to get some heavyweight phone manufacturers on board, I think that Sharp has effectivley killed the Linux PDA market outside of Asia,
Regards,
Clive
*



Wait and see... smile.gif
orange
I think that the high price is cuz it´s "Rugged" all PDAs of that kind have prices that no normal person would pay for the features included (as a PDA) but as said befor it will not be a compedition to what Sybol does you cant even add a Barcodescanner, Memory (no SD???)

the only thing I like about this Device is that you realy have an opion on the OS if sharp had done something like that, Sharp would be a big-player.

A lot of Managers in my company like my c3000 when they first see it all I hear is "that is what I want" but when they see my tux-background blink.gif and No M$ logo thy notice that this is not the device they want, they just dont want to spend there time to learn linux or spend hours on how to get a specific app to run and so on (dont get me wrong I like that biggrin.gif ), sad but true... rolleyes.gif

but mybe olympus is just starting and we will see some more nicer PDA´s in the future with option to decide what OS fits most.
clivel
QUOTE(lpotter @ Feb 1 2005, 10:15 PM)
QUOTE(clivel @ Feb 2 2005, 03:48 AM)
At this point, unless Trolltech manages to get some heavyweight phone manufacturers on board, I think that Sharp has effectivley killed the Linux PDA market outside of Asia,
Regards,
Clive
*


Wait and see... smile.gif
*


Sounds promising. Can you divulge a little more ?? Or at least a ballpark date?
speculatrix
QUOTE
One good thing about it being windows and linux compatable, is that if this device fails in the market they can't blame it on linux.

One good thing about the olympus being either WinCE or Linux, is that if there's a security breach, they can blame it on WinCE :-)
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