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MrSquishy
Since we are now OESF, can we have an OE Forum?

While I realize there is the OE Mailing list already for all the "pressing" issues and requests, (and I also realize that Mickeyl will eventually snap and kill someone for posting OE question in the OZ Dev forums) it'd be nice for us fledgling OE user to have someplace to go, even if just to know we arent alone.

I dont want to be bothering the big boys, but talking to other users about the troubles they've run into setting up an OE environment, and discussing howto cross compile stuff locally before making a bb file would be extremely helpful. Might even be able to learn enough to contribute something to the OE mailing list.

I dont want to suggest further segregating the userbase...
[BioForge]
"If you've come for the Fork, you'll be sorely disappointed"
[/BioForge]
...but I know I, for one, dont want to be bothering the developers with simple OE questions.
They might hit me.
adf
LMAO.

really though... the people who can do development should be supported be by the less able. I hate to burn out a perfectly good developer by asking questions that someone only slightly less lost than I am might be able to answer. An oe forum might help bridge the gap between the OZ forum and the OE mailing list, and even be helpful. There are a few people who seem to run around helping out with OZ (lardman comes to mind) who might also be helped by splitting things into "stuff than can be solved on board in oz" and "stuff that can be done in OE" --as well as the very important development of a knowledgeable oe user..yes "OE user," not "OE developer" base ( systems are used by users and oe is a sytem, so....). There a probably a lot of people who wuold contribute useful stuff with a little more support, and more software means more users (and more testers)..which might ultimately bring in some more interest and help for the developers...

It seems like a good idea..... jut pin a link to the OE wiki and docs at the top, and write rtfm in the forum guide smile.gif

not to mention that it would be of use to, and maybe attract, the users of other non-z hardware.
lardman
This (http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=77) is the openzaurus/opie development forum section, so it's really OE anyway.

Si
adf
er I found this in that forum:

"Please don't try to get support for OE here. We have a mailing list for a reason. Just for the records though - distutils is a module from your local system. Install it.


--------------------
Cheers,

Mickey."

It kinda suggests that oe support should be had elsewhere.
And, I agree w/ MrSquishy, the mailing list (to which I subscribe) is often dedicated to more pressing issues than OE config stuff....and build options, etc. They seem to be building stuff there mostly, and i prefer that they build away undisturbed by trivia. The same w/ irc.
An OE users forum to do things like help people get the OE configured and running, and discuss options and successes and failures without bugging people who are busy making stuff I want to use might be easier on everyone. POssibly the documentation project could get some use from a forum of this nature as well. Even if they get nothing more than a good sense of what in the documentation isn't generally understood, it would be pretty useful.

Here is an example:
I'm not currently running OZ. I would, however, like to know if xirk works in OZ gpe, and if irk can be run on OZ/opie/xqt.
I'd also like to know how to configure a kernel separately from the whole OE build bit... just a simple make menuconfig from an oe kernel source. It isn't a stupid question, It is something I do for my Z now, and something I've done for debian and redhat boxes, and pretty worthwhile for getting hardware working. I can't ask that on irc or the mailing list without offence. I can't ask it in the opie forum. I assume that OE isn't designed to be the system of true believers, but where is the venue for that sort of question?
lardman
QUOTE
I would, however, like to know if xirk works in OZ gpe, and if irk can be run on OZ/opie/xqt.


These are questions for the Openzaurus part of the forum (not development questions).

QUOTE
I'd also like to know how to configure a kernel separately from the whole OE build bit... just a simple make menuconfig from an oe kernel source.


Yes it's simple. You should first build the kernel normally (so that it's fetched, patched, etc.). Then you need to copy the config file for your machine (defconfig-shepherd) from the appropriate part of the packages dir (it's in a sub dir something like packages/linux/openzaurus-*/) to the work directory where the kernel was built and name it .config (as per the norm).

Then run 'make menuconfig' in that dir - make your alterations as you want, then copy .config back over defconfig-<machine-type>, then remove the stamps and the work dir then re-run bitbake to build the kernel again.


Si

P.S. I'd be happy for there to be a part of the forum for these type of questions - and even better would be for them to then be placed on the OE wiki...
adf
I agree... I think a lot of info could be quickly developed this way.
Thanks for the kernel info. It will be of much use, I think.
re the xirc question. I did ask in the OZ forum. No reply. That would, I think tend to imply that it might need to be Pulled into oe.
lardman
QUOTE
re the xirc question. I did ask in the OZ forum. No reply. That would, I think tend to imply that it might need to be Pulled into oe.


Probably quicker to just browse the packages directory of OE to see whether it's there already:

http://openembedded.bkbits.net:8080/openem...index.html|src/


Si
padishah_emperor
I don't know if I'm the only one that feels this way but I actually feel intimidated asking ANY questions about OE for fear of being shot down by planet-sized egos or terse/irritable replies. (I'm not thinking of anyone in particular) To be honest, it simply puts me off even wanting to try it. Lardman excluded, of course, who has become the defacto OE spokesman/advocate for the rest of us. A friendlier forum here would be great where people can ask questions without fear of being made to feel guilty for not reading through gigabytes of info, not being a first class C++ programmer, or asking the same question as someone has already asked.
adf
To simplify then, NO, there is no xirc on OZ.

edit: to amplify, I think I saw something on pdaXrom regarding xirc. therefore it exists, and could conceivably be imported.

This sort of thing could be usefully put and threaded on an oe forum.
lardman
QUOTE
but I actually feel intimidated asking ANY questions about OE for fear of being shot down


I can sympathise with this.

QUOTE
A friendlier forum here would be great where people can ask questions without fear of being made to feel guilty for not reading through gigabytes of info, not being a first class C++ programmer, or asking the same question as someone has already asked.


There are two possible problems; the first (the reason that Mickeyl is anti I think) is fragmentation of information; the second is that it becomes boring if one has to keep answering the same question again and again. I think people ought to make an effort to read the available docs/mailing list posts (though this is not up to date atm which is a pain).

As long as people do make an effort to look through the wiki, trawl the mailing list (what there is of it), I have no problems with having a section for OE to help people get started (and I'd be more than happy to contribute). I actually think that most people will do what they can, but I was just thinking of what would annoy me.

I say go for it, the more people we can encourage to start developing the better.



Si
padishah_emperor
QUOTE(lardman @ Mar 9 2005, 11:28 AM)
There are two possible problems; the first (the reason that Mickeyl is anti I think) is fragmentation of information; the second is that it becomes boring if one has to keep answering the same question again and again.

Well, I've no sympathy really, it comes with the territory. Take as an example Tim Wentford, the guy who wrote Opie-Reader, I've asked some stupid questions, I've asked obvious questions and even asked the same ones more than once, but he's curtious, helpful and always willing to go the extra mile - that's why I use his software, because he *supports* his users and I don't feel like I'm going to be torn in shreds by asking something. laugh.gif

QUOTE(lardman @ Mar 9 2005, 11:28 AM)
I think people ought to make an effort to read the available docs/mailing list posts (though this is not up to date atm which is a pain).

As long as people do make an effort to look through the wiki, trawl the mailing list (what there is of it), I have no problems with having a section for OE to help people get started (and I'd be more than happy to contribute). I actually think that most people will do what they can, but I was just thinking of what would annoy me.

That sounds great, IF the info is found easily (i.e. NOT embedded in terrabytes of mailing lists), is current and EVERYONE knows where to go for what and written so everyone can understand it. I haven't got a clue where to look to be honest. Last time I looked into using OE to build Opie for my Yopy (oh that rhymes!) I found a link to docs which were dead, emailed the OE team if they had more info, no reply. Probably because I didn't go through some official channel, but I didn't know where to go, because the information is not obvious to a beginner. huh.gif

The way I see it is, if people don't get it, or ask the same questions over and over or don't know where to go, then something IS wrong with the way it's being done.
smile.gif
QUOTE(lardman @ Mar 9 2005, 11:28 AM)
I say go for it, the more people we can encourage to start developing the better.

Yep, I'd also like to see in the forum some user-level HOWTOs and introductory materials.
Hrw
OpenEmbedded forum for it's users can be usefull yes. But I think that it will need one thing from them.

If You learn something usefull then consider adding it to OE Wiki in proper place to let others know what to do - do NOT split docs into official wiki and unofficial forums...
lardman
QUOTE
Well, I've no sympathy really, it comes with the territory.


Hmm, well I'm getting bored of having to tell people to 'run it from the command line', stuff like that.

That said, I still say it :-)

QUOTE
That sounds great, IF the info is found easily (i.e. NOT embedded in terrabytes of mailing lists), is current and EVERYONE knows where to go for what and written so everyone can understand it. I haven't got a clue where to look to be honest.


That's a fair point. The mailing list is a pain to search (because it's not complete, and you'd need to download the whole thing to search it). However people could look at the wiki first to see if there's any help already there - I'll pin a topic explaining where to look first to the top of the forum when it gets set up.

QUOTE
If You learn something usefull then consider adding it to OE Wiki in proper place to let others know what to do


I quite agree - this might actually be a good way to get the basic OE use docs built up.

I say let's go for it if offroadgeek is willing and able?


Si
padishah_emperor
QUOTE(lardman @ Mar 9 2005, 03:37 PM)
I say let's go for it if offroadgeek is willing and able?


Si
*


I second the motion.
offroadgeek
QUOTE
I say let's go for it if offroadgeek is willing and able?


Si
*


definitely willing, the able part has been the trouble lately. I've had almost no internet access as of late because of my move (at a coffee shop now with free wifi). Even the damn sidekick has been down for the last 4 days (those bastards!).

I will get this setup asap.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!

P.S. Can someone please reply to this with the suggested verbiage of the forum description (i.e. newbie OE support questions here, etc).
MrSquishy
"OE Newbie Forums - NO DEVS ALLOWED"

Kidding

Thanks for making this happen everyone.


I think it'll be important to get everyone to know that this is more of the staging grounds for OE help, and as problems are resolved, to add it to the OE Wiki.
offroadgeek
OK... I've created the forum. If anyone wants me to change the forum description, just provide a better one and I'll change it smile.gif

I've also added lardman as the moderator, because he's nice and is always willing to help (that's not to say that others aren't as well!). If anyone else would like to moderate this new forum (or others), just let me or any of the admins know.
lardman
Thanks offroadgeek.

Si
Hrw
@lardman

if you will be too busy with moderation of "OE forum" then I can be moderator too.
lardman
By all means - I think offroadgeek will have to add you, I'll send him a PM.

Cheers,


Si
padishah_emperor
QUOTE(MrSquishy @ Mar 10 2005, 02:27 AM)
"OE Newbie Forums - NO DEVS ALLOWED"
*

Maybe everyone should have mod rights to kick off any blunt comments smile.gif
dz
I added Hrw as a moderator for ya.
offroadgeek
QUOTE(padishah_emperor @ Mar 10 2005, 08:39 AM)
QUOTE(MrSquishy @ Mar 10 2005, 02:27 AM)
"OE Newbie Forums - NO DEVS ALLOWED"
*

Maybe everyone should have mod rights to kick off any blunt comments smile.gif
*



yeah 6000+ mods... maybe not wink.gif

we don't mind adding as many (trustworthy - as far as we can tell) mods as necessary... so if anyone wants to do it... just ask
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