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Anonymous
Someone posted this in one of the subforums:

QUOTE
Amazon has the SL-5600 for $299...with a PXA255 processor!!!!


Can anyone confirm this rumor? Do the last batches of 5600s really have the upgraded CPU?

Also, I noticed on Amazon's 5600 page, the "while supplies last" has appeared. I guess the 5x00 line is being phased out...
tumnus
Where did you see that post? I have not heard anything of the sort, but the 'special' kernel is getting good feedback:

http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...=776&highlight=
http://www.zaurus.com/dev/board/index.php?...wtopic=7536&hl=
Anonymous
It was posted in this thread:

http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...viewtopic&t=111
VeeDubb
Obviously any new 5600 would have the pxa255. Intel stopped production of the 250 shortly after newyears LAST YEAR. There are no 250's out there anymore. The only way you could buy a new sl-5600 right now with a pxa250 is if you bought one that had been on the shelf for the last 8 months or more.
Robson
Has the 250 problem made anyone else gunshy about being a new model early adopter?
weili1977
Just got mine from Amazon. It is PXA250, not PXA255:(
tumnus
Sharp could well have bought a huge stock of the PXA-250's (Intel always discounts CPUs more, the larger the batch bought), so they could have produced 5600s with the old CPU well after Intel stopped producing them. Intel also probably had a fairly large stock to flog after stopping too. So there are bound to be many 5600s with the PXA-250 left in many stocks. Even if Sharp has switched to the PXA-255 (which seems a little odd as it would require a full QA test and it looks like they're about to stop making it) then you certainly cannot say that all 5600s bought now will have the new CPU.
VeeDubb
QUOTE
...... then you certainly cannot say that all 5600s bought now will have the new CPU.


I didn't, read my post again.

I never said it wasn't possible that the cpu and or 250 were on the shelf for ages, I just said that's the only way you could get one.

As for requireing a huge GA test, I think you're wrong. According to an Intel press release when the chip was replaced, the pxa255 is, and I quote, "A drop-in replacement" for the 250."

They said that manufacturers would only need to swap the CPU's and one or two ic's that all have the same configuration, and most PPC manufacturers continued all their current models with less than 2 weeks production downtime using the new CPU. Toshiba kept producint it's e740 until it ran out of 250's and then switched to the 255 with LITERALY NO DOWN TIME, because they knew it was coming, and just renamed it the e750. HP continued all of it's ipaqswith no conusumer end shortages, and Dell, only stopped shippments on the Dell Axim Series for 2 weeks while they made the minor updates that were all laid out for them by intel. Many PPC makers did not mention a word to anyone when they switched. They just did itand kept moving to avoid idiots claiming they deserved a free upgrade which happens all the time. When the OS was upgraded from PPC2000 to PPC2002, there were so many people that had bought in recent months that claime3d they deserved a free upgrade that many companies went ahead and did it. The same happened with the upgrade from the Sa-111 to the 250 and later, the upgrade from 2002 to WinodwsMobile. So lot's of companies wanted to keep quiet about their upgrades.

All that in mind, it's more likely that sharp HAS upgraded, as it's very unlikely that they would stockpile that many cpu's. I'm sorry to the guy that just got one with a 250, but logicaly, the 255's must be out there.
tumnus
Does anyone know how many 5600s have been sold? I don't think it has sold very well because a lot of people knew about the buggy PXA-250 CPU and $499 was way over priced, so many places could well have large stocks with the buggy CPU. I'm not contesting that they have changed the CPU.

Production downtime has got nothing to do with it. Sharp continued to make 5600s with the buggy CPU for a significant period after Intel *announced* they were stopping production of the PXA-250, otherwise 5600s with the new CPU would have turned up much sooner than now, no matter how well or bad they were selling. Sharp is also obviously devoting less funds to the Zaurus line of PDAs than other companies, so they probably held out for as long as possible before changing to the PXA-255.

I work in the Global Supply Chain of a multi-national telecommunications equipment manufacturer, at the main factory, and I have seen this kind of thing happen before.
Anonymous
Kinda sad really. It seems as though Sharp has concluded that since a buggy, poorly supported, poorly marketed, overpriced (but otherwise fabulous) product does not sell astronomically well, then the market must not exist.
clivel
QUOTE
Does anyone know how many 5600s have been sold? I don't think it has sold very well because a lot of people knew about the buggy PXA-250 CPU and $499 was way over priced, so many places could well have large stocks with the buggy CPU. I'm not contesting that they have changed the CPU.

I don't think that the buggy CPU had much to do with poor sales, it didn't slow down the sales of Pocket PC devices. The average PDA user probably new nothing about the buggy CPU. Poor sales are a direct result of Sharp's poor marketing effort, and inadequate PIM apps.
I guess Sharp, like the Pocket PC makers, continued to supply PXA250 based devices until they ran out of stock of assembled PDAs as well as any PXA250 chips that they could not return to Intel. The slow sales of the 5600 compared to a Dell for instance, is why it has taken so long for the PXA255 based devices to filter down to the market.

It would be very convenient if Sharp had of given a new model number to the PXA255 devices, something like SL5600A to differentiate them.
Regards,
Clive
tumnus
QUOTE
I don't think that the buggy CPU had much to do with poor sales, it didn't slow down the sales of Pocket PC devices. The average PDA user probably new nothing about the buggy CPU. Poor sales are a direct result of Sharp's poor marketing effort, and inadequate PIM apps.

I think it's a combination of these things. Sharp has never marketed the Zaurus properly or done anything for the PIM. And whether Sharp was intending it or not, a lot of the buyers end up being technies that will know about the CPU issue. Plus I know a lot of existing SL-5500 owners did not upgrade because of the CPU (and only 32MB of RAM and ridiculous price).

In any case, I think it's wrong to give the impression that there are now loads of 5600s out there with the new CPU and if you buy one now that you will get the PXA-255. To my knowledge, so far only one person has reported (anonymously) that they have a 5600 with a PXA-255 and did not explain how they knew that. But if a load of people now suddenly find they've got a 5600 with a PXA255 then great and please let us know!
meangene
Hello. I'm the guy who started this new discussion about the PXA255 processor. I bought mine from Amazon.com just 1 week ago. It definitely has a PXA255 processor, according to the outside of the box. I took a big chance (and hoped) that it would have it. For $299 and free shipping, I couldn't go wrong.
VeeDubb
QUOTE
Hello.  I'm the guy who started this new discussion about the PXA255 processor.  I bought mine from Amazon.com just 1 week ago.  It definitely has a PXA255 processor, according to the outside of the box.  I took a big chance (and hoped) that it would have it.  For $299 and free shipping, I couldn't go wrong.


I guess that ends the debate now doesn't it. LOL laugh.gif
Anonymous
I just got my Zaurus 5600 from Amazon today and the box says 250. So it looks like I am screwed. Any suggestions/insight? Are there patches to do, or should I just send it back to Amazon and try and get at 5500?
tumnus
There are still more people reporting that they have just got a PXA250 5600 than the new PXA255 (in fact only 2 people have reported getting the PXA255). So I don't think Amazon could guarantee anything about which version of CPU you would get.

In the ZUG Downloads, in the 5600 Patches area there are some specially compiled kernels that do not include the workaround for the PXA250 bug. This workaround effectively halved the speed of the PXA250 5600. These kernels let it run at full speed without any apparent instability. Lots of people are using them now and no one has reported any crashes as a result. In fact the Dhrystone benchmark gave better results for the 5600 with the special kernel than a C760 with the pre-emptive kernel, although it's not exactly a fair benchmark comparison.
ced
tummus -> if you work in a "Global Supply Chain of a multi-national telecommunications equipment manufacturer" then do you have any contact that will do an upgrade? apparently it's just a drop-in to change from a pxa250 to a pxa255... :-)
tumnus
I wish smile.gif . We have outsourced most of our facilities and the IC stuff went with it. Besides which all the managers round here are mean and probably wouldn't let me do something like that.
ced
anyone else will be able to do it?
clivel
QUOTE
apparently it's just a drop-in to change from a pxa250 to a pxa255... :-)

"Drop-in", is a bit of an understatement. these cpu's have 256 pins in an area 17x17 mm. Removing the old chip without damaging the board could be tricky. Mounting the new chip would require specialised equipment including X rays, to ensure that the chip is alligned correctly. Unless you know someone who has access to the equipment and the skill to use it, it would probably be more cost effective to buy a C860 or wait for a SL6000, than to have this done. You would also have the problem of getting hold of a pxa255.
Clive
Felicity_Palmer
Just to add to this, my Zaurus arrived from Amazon two days ago and it says on the box PXA255 Processor Version. So I suggest to Guest that you contact Amazon and perhaps try and get them to exchange it for one with the PXA255 rather than the PXA250 processor as they are obviously available.

Given that two people (me and meangene) have just recently got PXA255s from Amazon but one person (anonymous Guest) got a PXA250, I imagine that Amazon just has a pile of them in a warehouse somewhere without any differentiation being made between PXA250 and PXA255 so whoever is in charge of packing it just grabs one and sends it off. But if you tell them that they gave you the wrong processor they might be more careful and be sure to put the right one in.
tapjpa
Given the fact that "the box say's its a PXA255" have you actually verified on the hardware that this is so.
ie run "cat /proc/cpuinfo" from the terminal.
Sorry but I am very hesistent to believe this just because two people are saying the box lists the PXA255.
tumnus
Actually Felicity_Palmer makes three reportings. The other two people did give the output of 'cat /proc/cpuinfo' and it did indeed say they had the PXA255. It was inevitable at some point that Sharp would have to make the switch as their stock of PXA250 would run out at some time. But obviously Amazon still has lots of stock of the PXA250 5600s at some of their warehouses.

I wouldn't be too bothered about gettting a PXA250 5600 as the workaround for the PXA250 CPU bug can be turned off without any apparent consequences other than getting the full speed out of your 5600. I don't know what the fuss was all about as I haven't had a single lockup with the special kernel and I have loaded it quite heavily with benchmark tests, playing graphically intensive games, DivX videos etc.
Anonymous
For the uninitiated how do I install the special kernel (I do not know code). I will be loading the update from Sharp tonight on my Zaurus. Is this the special kernel or is it something else? Also, what alternative ROM works for the 5600. It looks like the Open Zaurus does not work for the 5600. Also, how do I run cat /proc/cpuinfo from the terminal. Showing my ignorance how do you do that? Brad.
tapjpa
I would keep it for the price it is a good deal, just flash the rom up to 1.32 and apply this kernel update http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php...q=getit&lid=165
stahlrosen
I contacted Amazon, they said they had no idea which processor they were sending out, nor would they look at the box if you told them you wanted one or the other. They said all the information they had was on their web site. Guess it is too much to ask for them to actually inspect the product they are sending out. Oh well. It is still a good deal.
Anonymous
It's not THAT big of a deal. Most of the people that complain don't even own the 5600, they just think it sucks because of the bug. I have a 5600, use it every day... network with it, write scripts on it, interface with all sorts of servers and am never really affected by the bug. Maybe in 5 years, I will get the newest sharp... If the 6000's bring a dramatic drop in 5600 prices maybe I will get a second.

Don't believe the hype. There are many people who actually OWN 5600's who are quite happy with them (tumnus? Can I get an amen?)
RichS
I'll give "guest" an 'amen'! As a fairly new owner of an Amazon 5600 with a 250 chip... I have mine on a wireless network. Opera is fantastic,! I now have slrn reading newsgroups. I'm getting back into linux programming. And last night I got doom to run. I play my mp3's, stored on my PC's drive. I can read my 'pda' books. And best of all, I've got a linux machine in the palm of my hand!
I can't say if mine is slower than a 255? And I don't really care! It works, and works just fine for me, and I love it. I'm just sorry I didn't buy one a long time ago, even if it would have been a 5500 or 5000...
Or, you could wait for the 6000, or 7000 or 8000... Just keep waiting. There will always be a better model in the wings. Look at Sony. They up their models once a month and all the clie geek moan about having to get rid of their current ones to grab the latest-greatest...
Yeah, I do envy the 7xx,8xx owners for the clamshell design and resolution, but not enough to sell mine and buy one. I've got a 5600 and I'm happy with it. If I find something it can't do, well, I'll find someting else it can...
tcrouch
I just recently purchased the 5600 from Amazon.... it has the 250. But I have not experienced any "odd" issues (that I didn't introduce myself).
Mort
I bought one about two weeks ago from Amazon for $299. According to the box it has the PXA 255.

Note: cat /proc/cpuinfo shows: Intel Xscale-PXA255 rev 6 (5.1)
Felicity_Palmer
tapjpa, here is the relevant line from my /proc/cpuinfo:

Processor: Intel XScale-PXA255 rev 6 ( v51)

Guest/Brad who was asking about how to run cat /proc/cpuinfo from the terminal, you must have the terminal package installed; it did not come installed by default in my 5600. I got it from the Zaurus Software Index but it is also available on the CD that came with the 5600. Once it's installed, open a terminal from your apps menu, then at the prompt

bash-2.05$

type the line:

cat /proc/cpuinfo

The processor info should be in the first line of the file. Type exit to exit the terminal.
RadioRental
I got one from amazon its got the 250 cpu. I havent started pushing it yet but havent noticed any issues. What exaclty are these bugs?

Are we talking bad productions rates (then an non issue for the end user) or are we talking about a cpu rev (unlikely as that would have meant a major retest and incompatible software??)

I'm totally happy with my purchase, its met all my expectations and then some. Be objective with what youve got and the desire for the 'next model up' syndrome
w4lna
I also got a Zaurus SL-5600 from Amazon this week. Box and System Info say PXA250....
tumnus
The bug in the PXA250 CPU could potentially cause some memory corruption, which would like lead to a crash. They made a workaround in the PXA250 5600 kernel to ensure this never happens, although the effect of the workaround is that the PXA250 5600 runs at half the speed it should.

But like I have said, the kernels here http://www.zaurususergroup.com/modules.php...download&sid=53 have this workaround turned off and let the PXA250 5600 run at the full 400MHz and no one has reported any instability.
lpotter
i highly doubt sharp would spend the resources to drop in a 255 in a 5600
DrWowe
They had no choice. Intel stopped producing the PXA250.

QUOTE
i highly doubt sharp would spend the resources to drop in a 255 in a 5600
w4lna
QUOTE
They had no choice.  Intel stopped producing the PXA250.  

QUOTE
i highly doubt sharp would spend the resources to drop in a 255 in a 5600



Hey how about a class action suit against Intel to replace them...

:wink:

Mike
brycenut
As another data point or two, my brother-in-law got one from Amazon.com a week ago, don't know which warehouse, but it went to Houston, and has a PXA250.

I just received mine from HSN.com (no, they don't have any more, sold out 1200 in about 10 minutes), with the camera for the same price as Amazon. It's a PXA255, according to both the box and /proc/cpuinfo
tumnus
The SL-6000 must be coming out soon. They had a firesale like this for the SL-5500 just before bringing out the SL-5600, which was even more secret than the SL-6000. To top it off, I got a tip from a UK retailer that there was news of a new Zaurus in the UK! I'm going to see if I can pry a model number out of them smile.gif

Anyway, I guess Sharp had no choice in swaping to the PXA255. Though I could well imagine that if Sharp still had stock of the PXA250 they would not have changed it, especially since it looks so close to a new model coming out.
Anonymous
and all this while zaurus.com is being revamped.....
Anonymous
I purchased one of the SL5600's from Amazon. It came
with the PA250. Another data point.
rgbman
Hey All,

So I just bought a 5600 from Amazon last week and it has the pxa250 processor, it says on the box and in /proc/cpuinfo.. This thing rocks though!

Previously I had an ipaq 5455 which was garbage. I bought it for wireless networking and soon realized it was woefully inadequate. The Z is way faster than the ipaq, the browser most notably. I know it's apples to oranges, but the Z just feels quicker, and probably is.

I've been using the thing all week for kismet wifi sniffing, games, web surfing, and email and I haven't had any problems or even one crash. Updated to the 1.32 Sharp ROM also.

So, for us noobs, what's this bug with the 250's and how to avoid it?
tumnus
QUOTE
So, for us noobs, what's this bug with the 250's and how to avoid it?

Read my previous, previous post in this thread
Anonymous
The specs on the sl-5600 say pxa250 400mhz processor on the web for this. Read zdnet as well (see below). I doubt that they changed the processor in the development of the same unit.

From zdnet:

The SL-5600 uses a 400MHz Intel PXA250 XScale processor, not the low-voltage PXA255, which has a faster CPU bus and uses less power. With 32MB of SDRAM and 64MB of flash memory, the Zaurus gives you plenty of room to work in. Taking about 3 seconds to start or close programs, we were able to back up the system in 2 minutes and restore it in 3 minutes, 15 seconds, including restarting the system.
clivel
QUOTE
The specs on the sl-5600 say pxa250 400mhz processor on the web for this. Read zdnet as well (see below). I doubt that they changed the processor in the development of the same unit.

Sharp didn't have an option, Intel stopped making the pxa250. Sharp would either have to switch to the pxa255, or stop manufactuirng of the 5600.
Clive
rgbman
QUOTE
QUOTE
So, for us noobs, what's this bug with the 250's and how to avoid it?

Read my previous, previous post in this thread



Yeah oops, I re-read that after I posted. :oops:

-dork
Anonymous
Guess I was wrong. Anyway, so what would you suggest if you just purchased this a few weeks ago online? Do you think the seller or Sharp would make good and exchange it? Or will the kernel fix, do just as well as the upgrade. What is main difference they both are 400 processor is just some performance tweaks?
tumnus
Guest, please read the rest of the thread
stormer
My new 5600 has the PXA255, I noticed a difference in speed when I went back to the sharp 1.32 ROM after playing with Zynergy (problems with the graphical ipkg tool, not much fun if you cannot install new software without jumping through hoops) and OZ (problems communicating with my PC over USB, want to use it in work and have no wifi there)

The sharp ROM was very noticably slower than the original ROM that came with the 5600 so I am going to give the pre-emptive kernel a go, I am resisting the urge to co for the special overclocked kernel as my Z is still less than a week old !

So the quest goes on for a ROM for 5600 !
dz
my new zaurus (from hsn, 5600 + camera for $260) has pxa255 also.. but i've noticed a ton of sites are down/out of existence? did the zaurus community take a hit or something?

sorry, i just got into the whole zaurus scene, i've been a slackware user for years and the zaurus seemed neat biggrin.gif

btw, anyone know where i can get the sharp rom from? i cant find it on the cd :/
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