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TsingTao
(Watch it...I'm loooooooooooooooong winded...)


Hello all,

I'm gonna be moving to Japan in the fall (should have been this summer...stupid economy!) and be living there for a year while I go to school to learn Japanese. Thus I'm both buying a bunch of stuff and selling a bunch of stuff. Since I love my family and friends a whole lot, I want to keep in contact with them while I'm away. And since I am planning on a fair amount of intra-Nihon travel, mobile communication is a must. Though I plan on purchasing a sick-ultra-techno-cool-only-in-Japan-cell-phone while I'm there, having emailed via phones before I think I'll be needing something with erm...1 letter per key...

Thus far I have settled on an HP Jornada 720. It has an *almost* touch-typeable keyboard, a big screen and a built in modem. Also a PCMCIA slot that allows me to use an excellent Enterasys wifi card, yielding all 14 Japanese wifi channels and Ministumbler (wifi detection agent). It also plays movies and MP3's reasonably well. The downside of it of course is that it's pretty big compared to most PDA's. It's not really 'pocketable'.

Of course, I was tantilized by the release of the SL-C3000 and it's luscious 4gb internal HDD. But the $800 price tag made it an impossible dream.

Enter the SL-C1000.

At $500 it's almost doable. I already have a D-Link Air 660W CF wifi card (that works with Kismet by the way) and a 1GB CF card for movies (I also have the odd 256mb SD card lying around). It seems to me all I would need aditionally is a CF modem and the C1000 looks to be the equivilant or superior to the Jornada in almost every way. Couple things I'm wondering about though that I'm hoping those with experience with the C1000 (I have a SL-5500, so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the Zaurus line) can share.

- Battery Life: I've never seen a company acurately represent the battery life of any of their products. How much time should I expect watching movies, playing MP3's, or surfing the web ? Also, I know wn extra long life battery is available in Japan, but it looks like it hangs out of the chasis somehow. Any experience with it ?

- Movie Playback: The SL-5500 is a little grainy and a little jerky, but not so much that I wouldn't be willing to watch an entire film on it. I would expect that with a better screen and a faster processor the C1000 is significantly better...and at the very least watchable. Any comments on movie playback on the C1000 ? Mpeg ? AVI ?

- OS: I forget when, but I know the basic underlying linux distro for the Zaurus line changed at some point. I believe it's 'Lineo' now whereas it was something else back in the SL-5500 days. I also considered the G.Mate Yopy 3700 as an alternative to the Jornada. Many of the user reviews for it said that it operated faster than a C850 despite having a slower processor. These comments pointed to the Debian based OS of the Yopy as being more efficient, thus dilivering better performance. Has the OS improved with the C1000 and C3000 ?

- Kismet: I spent a fair amount of time getting Ministumbler to work on my Jornada so I can take advantage of the prolific unsecured wireless in Japan. I would just like to make sure that Kismet works on the C1000. Does it ?

- C1000 or ?: I've also mused about perhaps purchasing a C850 instead. Any compelling reason to go with the C1000 over the (cheaper now) C850 ?


That's about it all I can thing of now. Anyway, thanks for reading this far, and if you have any information you'd like to contribute I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!
chromodoris
If you plan to do a fair bit of travelling, you may be better off going for a PHS cellular modem (they're quite cool actually, and don't stick out half as much as your typical WiFi card). I get the feeling that you're not going to have much luck with your netstumbler.

C1000 vs 850 - 4G HDD & faster CPU, but more softwares are tested for the 850, (I think) including a few alternative ROMs... because of the HDD, the C1000 is prone to pauses also while it waits for the HDD.
iamasmith
QUOTE(chromodoris @ May 1 2005, 08:36 AM)
If you plan to do a fair bit of travelling, you may be better off going for a PHS cellular modem (they're quite cool actually, and don't stick out half as much as your typical WiFi card).  I get the feeling that you're not going to have much luck with your netstumbler.

C1000 vs 850 - 4G HDD & faster CPU, but more softwares are tested for the 850, (I think) including a few alternative ROMs... because of the HDD, the C1000 is prone to pauses also while it waits for the HDD.
*


I think you mean the C3000 vs 860.

The 1000 is flash only like the 860 was. There never was an 850 model. The 4Gb HDD is only in the 3000 at the moment (unless you add a 4Gb CF card which you can do with an 860 as well).

Incidentally those pauses aren't as bad as you might think and aren't generally that noticable unless you purge the disk cache of the most often used system files by transferring large files. (it then takes a little use to cache the right stuff again).

- Andy
TsingTao
QUOTE(iamasmith @ May 1 2005, 02:43 AM)
I think you mean the C3000 vs 860.

The 1000 is flash only like the 860 was. There never was an 850 model. The 4Gb HDD is only in the 3000 at the moment (unless you add a 4Gb CF card which you can do with an 860 as well)....


- Andy
*



Andy,

It appears by your stats at the bottom of your post you have both an 860 and a 3000. So I suppose you could (if so inclined) answer most of my questions. But I'd be interested in your overall opinion/advice (which will be taken in context and will not endemnify you in any way smile.gif ).

Between the C1000 and C3000 I would go with the C1000 for price and battery concerns. I would probably end up outfitting whatever Cxxxx I get with a 1gb CF card for media and 256-512mb SD for some media and programs, which is plenty for me. But some of the reviews I''ve read say that the difference between the 860 and 1000 are incremental at best. I know there are a couple OS tweaks and the CPU is 16mhz faster, and you get a D-button instead of arrow keys (which is probably more important to me than it should be...). All three of which may in fact be minor. I fact, one of the reveiws I read said that if you already have an 860 (which I don't) there's not much reason to upgrade to a C1000...

I guess my real question would be, if I could get an 860 for say...$100+ less than a C1000 is there any real reason to go for the C1000 ?

(And ironically enough I have just done a quick search for the 860 on line. Lots of places have phased it out, and those still offering it only charge like $50 more for a C1000 which I would pay simply for the tighter fitting beveled edges of the C1000)

So if you or anyone else would like to contribute your thoughts/experiences/opinion in these areas as well, I'd apreciate it.

Also, anyone have a recomendation for a CF modem ? I know most of them are supposed to work OK, but if anyone has had good/or bad experiences with one model or another I'd love to hear about it...


THANKS!
iamasmith
QUOTE(TsingTao @ May 1 2005, 04:57 PM)
Andy,

It appears by your stats at the bottom of your post you have both an 860 and a 3000. So I suppose you could (if so inclined) answer most of my questions.  But I'd be interested in your overall opinion/advice (which will be taken in context and will not endemnify you in any way smile.gif ).

Between the C1000 and C3000 I would go with the C1000 for price and battery concerns.  I would probably end up outfitting whatever Cxxxx I get with a 1gb CF card for media and 256-512mb SD for some media and programs, which is plenty for me.  But some of the reviews I''ve read say that the difference between the 860 and 1000  are incremental at best.  I know there are a couple OS tweaks and the CPU is 16mhz faster, and you get a D-button instead of arrow keys (which is probably more important to me than it should be...).  All three of which may in fact be minor.  I fact, one of the reveiws I read said that if you already have an 860 (which I don't) there's not much reason to upgrade to a C1000...

I guess my real question would be, if I could get an 860 for say...$100+ less than a C1000 is there any real reason to go for the C1000 ?


Although I don't advocate it, if you really need to you can overclock the SL-C1000 up to 624Mhz with the right Kernel.

Aside from that the Keyboard is far superior (I'm assuming that it's the same as the 3000) and you get USB Host mode which I think is a great addition. With the Cacko 3K ROM beta that I have just put out you can plug in a mouse and it's supported out of the box. You can even burn CDs with the cdr-utils package that's built into the Cacko 3K ROM beta. I'm assuming that this package will also work on the 1000 but haven't had any word back from Anton.

You will almost certainly pay more than $100 for a USB host card so if that's a factor then go for the 1000 (860 only has USB Client built in).

QUOTE
(And ironically enough I have just done a quick search for the 860 on line.  Lots of places have phased it out, and those still offering it only charge like $50 more for a C1000 which I would pay simply for the tighter fitting beveled edges of the C1000)


Yes the SL-C860 is now out of production. Sharp can't produce them anymore because ATI aren't producing the ATIW100 display controller any more.

That said, they are good devices and most current owners will have a decent return on their money before they feel that have to upgrade.

The keyboard and general build quality I think is bettern on the new units, they are slightly bigger, certainly the OS seems a little faster but you can still get a lot out of the 860 and if you want established ROM support then this is the safest model to go with and has the most flash.

QUOTE
So if you or anyone else would like to contribute your thoughts/experiences/opinion in these areas as well, I'd apreciate it.

Also, anyone have a recomendation for a CF modem ?  I know most of them are supposed to work OK, but if anyone has had good/or bad experiences with one model or another I'd love to hear about it...


Can't help with CF modems, I don't use one. I use an LSE0039 Bluetooth card and a rev2 Senao WIFI card (rev3 is problematical I believe).

Hope that helps,

Andy
TsingTao
QUOTE(iamasmith @ May 1 2005, 09:17 AM)
...

Hope that helps,

Andy
*



It helps IMMENSELY ! That's exactly the kind of info/user perspective I was hoping for.

(But don't let Andy Hog all the fun, I'd love to hear from others as well)

I guess I would also have to factor in that any 860 I purchased at this point would likely be used as well. IE questionable battery life, how many times has it been dropped, how hygenic was the previous owner, etc. etc...

Hmm...

Any thoughts from anyone about the extended life battery ?

This guy

http://www.foxpop.co.uk/elisa/Sharp/zaurus_02.htm

Has pictures of it, but he says that it comes with a cover not shown in them. Is it worth the added bulk ? How ,uch extra time do you get ?

Thanks again to any and all !
iamasmith
QUOTE(TsingTao @ May 1 2005, 08:26 PM)
QUOTE(iamasmith @ May 1 2005, 09:17 AM)

...

Hope that helps,

Andy
*



It helps IMMENSELY ! That's exactly the kind of info/user perspective I was hoping for.

(But don't let Andy Hog all the fun, I'd love to hear from others as well)

I guess I would also have to factor in that any 860 I purchased at this point would likely be used as well. IE questionable battery life, how many times has it been dropped, how hygenic was the previous owner, etc. etc...

Hmm...

Any thoughts from anyone about the extended life battery ?

This guy

http://www.foxpop.co.uk/elisa/Sharp/zaurus_02.htm

Has pictures of it, but he says that it comes with a cover not shown in them. Is it worth the added bulk ? How ,uch extra time do you get ?

Thanks again to any and all !
*



The 860 comes as standard with the Extended Life battery and the corresponding large battery door (actually a slide on new bottom for the unit) as standard. It also comes with a smaller door if you wanted to purchase a smaller battery to save space.
tetron
A few comments...

The only difference between the C760 and C860 is software and I think the color of the case. Apparently the C860 has some Japanese<-->English translation software that bumps up the price around 10,000 yen, otherwise the hardware is identical, so go for the C760 (which still comes with a decent Japanese/English dictionary).

The differences between the C760 and the C1000 as I understand it is that the C1000 has a slightly newer CPU, the same keyboard/casing as the C3000 (more on that in a second), a USB host controller (yay!) and the Sharp ROM uses a 2.6 kernel instead of the old 2.4.18 kernel.

The C760 and C1000 both have 64MB of RAM and 128 MB of flash for memory, presumably both partitioned 64 MB for applications / 64 MB for user data.

Best place in the world to buy a cheap Zaurus retail: Softmap 5 in the heart of Akihabara, Tokyo. This particular outlet specializes in PDAs and accessories, and in particular has used PDAs for cheap. When I was there last fall I bought a used but in pristine condition C760 for about 35,000 yen (they were 50,000 new). Since the C1000 is now out at the 50,000 yen price point, it's probably pushed the price of a C760 down even further.

When you get it, must-have accessories are a case (obviously), more storage (1 GB SD cards are cheap, go 2 GB if you can afford it) and if you can find it (try the "Sharp" retail store) the Zaurus headphone remote control. This thing is sweet, and I've seen no mention of it anywhere -- it's a headphone pass-thru that gives you volume, play/stop and next/back controls via a 3rd lead in the Zaurus headphone jack. You can clip it on your shirt, stick the Zaurus in your pocket and not have to haul out the Zaurus and fiddle with it just to change the volume or skip to the next song.

For a case, a found a "Dict." brand electronic dictionary case that fits the Zaurus perfectly, and is only like 1,200 yen.

Ok, about the C3000 form factor: while I haven't actually used it extensively, I did get a chance to play with a C3000 and there were several things I didn't like about the physical styling of it. For one, it is distinctly heavier than the C760. Not in a "more solid" sort of way, in a "more bricklike and more likely to be dropped" sort of way. Also, instead of the shortcut buttons (which unsuspend the unit and open the selected application in a single button press) being big and friendly as on the C760, they are small and hard to press on the C3000. The same goes for the Ok and Cancel buttons. Instead of the arrows being the usual upside-down "T" as on the C760, the C3000 has a circular D-pad with the "Ok" button in the middle. Finally, I don't recall exactly but I want to say that they also changed the external rocker switches on the spine for the worse, but I can't find any pictures of that particular area of the C3000 to say exactly how.

Quibbling aside, the biggest factor in deciding between the C760 and C1000 will probably be your budget -- keep in mind that in addition to buying the Zaurus itself, expect to spend at least another $100-$200 pimping it out with accessories :-)
TsingTao
QUOTE(tetron @ May 9 2005, 02:18 PM)
A few comments...


*



Arigato Tetron-san!

Ah...Softmap 5 in Akihabara. You were there last fall huh ? Tell me, did they ever get around to wiping up the gallon or two of drool I must have left behind there last spring ?smile.gif

More of exactly the kind of user perspective I love when I'm making a purchase choice.

(I know the format of the respones I'm going to write is usually indicitive of a rebutal. Rest assured I am simply responding in an organized manner)

QUOTE
"The only difference between the C760 and C860 is software and I think the color of the case. Apparently the C860 has some Japanese<-->English translation software..."



This is actually a real concern of mine, as I'll be in Japan for a year trying to learn to speak Japanese (actually I already can sort of speak it, but I never get any practice so I'm abysmal at it. I will now though...). But as you say it has some built in stuff, and Effy-CJK 3.0 can be had for less than $50. So I suppose that is a blow for the 760...

QUOTE
The differences between the C760 and the C1000...slightly newer CPU...a USB host controller (yay!) and the Sharp ROM uses a 2.6 kernel instead of the old 2.4.18 kernel.


The extra 16mhz... 'meh'...the improved instruction set however is a bit of a draw. The usb host is (in 80's jargon) RAD...but I honestly don't think I'd use it much (I could be wrong). The improved kernal is also a bit of a draw, can the stock rom from the C1000 be applied to the C760 ?

QUOTE
When you get it, must-have accessories are a case (obviously)...


I already have *most* of the accessories I really need. The headphone remote has always been tempting, but as I prepared to sell my 5500 I picke dup an RCA Lyra for cheap off ebay and I've been using that lately for my MP3's. It's not at all competetive with even mediocre stand alone MP3 players out there, but I'm getting used to it, so I probably won't cave on that. I have my WIFI card (unless someone knows of a Kismet compatible CF card with an MC Card jack...) and I have a 1GB CF Flash card for movies. For apps and some MP3s I've got one or two 256mb SD cards lying around. If they cheapen down in the next few months I'll go ahead and pick up a 512mb. The case you mention however I will defenitely be on the lookout for. I'll probably also pick up a Semson battery extender since they are cheap and compact.


QUOTE
Ok, about the C3000 form factor:... it is distinctly heavier than the C760. Not in a "more solid" sort of way, in a "more bricklike ...Instead of the arrows being the usual upside-down "T" as on the C760, the C3000 has a circular D-pad with the "Ok" button in the middle...


Most people seem to like the C1000 keyboard for it's less membraneous feel, and if true I would prefer that as well. I'd also head the beveled edges of the Cx000 duo give them a tighter feel when closed. Weight doesn't bother me too much. Kind of ironic, I vastly prefer the d-pad concept to the seperate arrow buttons, but if I get into gaming a bitmore and the center button does something it could get mightey annoying indeed. Good points though...lots to consider in that paragraph...

QUOTE
Quibbling aside, the biggest factor in deciding between the C760 and C1000 will probably be your budget -- keep in mind that in addition to buying the Zaurus itself, expect to spend at least another $100-$200 pimping it out with accessories :-)


Well, I haven't bought anything yet. I'd be interested to see how others who maybe own both respond to your notes here. But you are right, bottom line price is big factor and I am not rich. If I would simply walk into a store tommorrow and chose between the two and the 760 were $350 while the C1000 was $600. I'd probably go with the 760. I'll just have to see. I've got so many toys that I can't play with them all , so a bunch are going to eBay within the week. I estimate I should get anywhere from $300 to maybe $700 the market being as fickle as it is. That will play a big role in what I can spend on this purchase.

And yeah...as soon as I have cash in hand, even though I say I have almost everything I need...the pimping out will likely ensue.. tongue.gif

One other minor note might be that if I buy the 760 in japan I'll have to anglocize it myself...not *too* hard based on the internet instructions I see, but one more thing to think about...

Many thanks 'Tetron' for some mighty tasty food for thought !

Oh yeah, which battery does the 760 have stock (see the mental pimping-out has already begun)?
kahm
QUOTE(TsingTao @ May 9 2005, 05:42 PM)
Ah...Softmap 5 in Akihabara.  You were there last fall huh ? Tell me, did they ever get around to wiping up the gallon or two of drool I must have left behind there last spring ?smile.gif


I'm pretty sure there was still some left in the corners when I was there in October. Not that I helped the situation any - I probably lost 5lbs in water weight in the various Sofmap's that I visited.

That being said, Sofmap is rather expensive for new items. I get my C1k's at a place called "Naniwadenki" for ~43000Y new, rather than ~50000Y. Getting used might not be a bad idea.

QUOTE
More of exactly the kind of user perspective I love when I'm making a purchase choice.

(I know the format of the respones I'm going to write is usually indicitive of a rebutal. Rest assured I am simply responding in an organized manner)

...

This is actually a real concern of mine, as I'll be in Japan for a year trying to learn to speak Japanese (actually I already can sort of speak it, but I never get any practice so I'm abysmal at it.  I will now though...).  But as you say it has some built in stuff, and  Effy-CJK 3.0 can be had for less than $50.  So I suppose that is a blow for the 760...


You may want to check the Japanese HOWTO at http://www.cacko.biz in regards to the 860's Japanese software and how to get it.

QUOTE
The extra 16mhz... 'meh'...the improved instruction set however is a bit of a draw.  The usb host is (in 80's jargon) RAD...but I honestly don't think I'd use it much (I could be wrong).  The improved kernal is also a bit of a draw, can the stock rom from the C1000 be applied to the C760 ?


Sharp doesn't use a 2.6 kernel. The Cxk's use kernel 2.4.20. There's no way you can use the C1000 rom on the Cx60s.

QUOTE
I already have *most* of the accessories I really need.  The headphone remote has always been tempting, but as I prepared to sell my 5500 I picke dup an RCA Lyra for cheap off ebay and I've been using that lately for my MP3's.  It's not at all competetive with even mediocre stand alone MP3 players out there, but I'm getting used to it, so I probably won't cave on that.  I have my WIFI card (unless someone knows of a Kismet compatible CF card with an MC Card jack...) and I have a 1GB CF Flash card for movies.  For apps and some MP3s I've got one or two 256mb SD cards lying around.  If they cheapen down in the next few months I'll go ahead and pick up a 512mb. The case you mention however I will defenitely be on the lookout for.  I'll probably also pick up a Semson battery extender since they are cheap and compact.


The remotes for the Z's are great - It lets me completely replace my MP3 player, as well as my Palm and Laptop smile.gif

The Cxk remote changed the way some of the buttons work in comparison to the Cx60 remote. I'm going to track down the kernel patch that deals with the remote and change it back, because the old one was better. sad.gif (The buttons are exactly the same layout - they've just changed the positions of Stop and Play, as well as FF and RW were reversed. sad.gif )

For a battery extender, check out the Pelican Powerbrick for the PSP. ~3700mAh rechargeable pack for ~$20US. The PSP takes the same powersupply as the Z.

QUOTE
Most people seem to like the C1000 keyboard for it's less membraneous feel, and if true I would prefer that as well. I'd also head the beveled edges of the Cx000 duo give them a tighter feel when closed.  Weight doesn't bother me too much.  Kind of ironic, I vastly prefer the d-pad concept to the seperate arrow buttons, but if I get into gaming a bitmore and the center button does something it could get mightey annoying indeed.  Good points though...lots to consider in that paragraph...


The keyboard on the Cxks is definitely better than the Cx60's. It has a nicer feel, better appearance, and a dedicated control key. The D-Pad is also *much* better for gaming than the arrow keys on the Cx60 could ever be - the center button isn't really an issue.

QUOTE
Well, I haven't bought anything yet.  I'd be interested to see how others who maybe own both respond to your notes here. But you are right, bottom line price is big factor and I am not rich.  If I would simply walk into a store tommorrow and chose between  the two and the 760 were $350 while the C1000 was $600. I'd probably go with the 760.  I'll just have to see.  I've got so many toys that I can't play with them all , so a bunch are going to eBay within the week.  I estimate I should get anywhere from $300 to maybe $700 the market being as fickle as it is.  That will play a big role in what I can spend on this purchase.


My take on the Cx60 vs Cxk issue is thus:

For the extra money for a Cxk (And in the case of the C1000, this isn't much), you get the USB host, better keyboard, bigger and newer battery (which may matter with an older used device, given the ~2yr half-life of Lithium Ion), and a current unit. The Cx60s are currently better supported, but they aren't being made any more and video performance is being held back by the ATIW100 video chip. There have been software updates in the last week or so for a WMMX (Wireless MMX - a feature of the newer processor) enabled video player that, even in this early stage, allowed for 640x480 video on the Cxk. I expect that, once things are polished off, the CxK video performance is going to absolutely destroy the Cx60's.
On the down side, the CxK roms aren't quite done yet (But very close. The rom for the C3k is in Beta, and Maslovsky is working on the C1k. There's an alpha OE/Opie Rom as well). Plus, the new units are a little larger and heavier, but their ergnomics are better, and button placement (like the power button) are more intelligent. The C860 design with the large battery cover was a complete hack, and it shows. The CxKs are better designed and better fitting.

My vote is squarely on the side of the CxK rather than the Cx60.

QUOTE
And yeah...as soon as I have cash in hand, even though I say I have almost everything I need...the pimping out will likely ensue.. tongue.gif

One other minor note might be that if I buy the 760 in japan I'll have to anglocize it myself...not *too* hard based on the internet instructions I see, but one more thing to think about...


It is *very* easy to do. If you do get an Cx60, check out Cacko w/Japanese, as per the Howto I mentioned earlier. A fully English translated ROM that looks good and works better, with complete Japanese functionality for your studies.

QUOTE
Many thanks 'Tetron' for some mighty tasty food for thought !

Oh yeah, which battery does the 760 have stock (see the mental pimping-out has already begun)?

I believe the 760 comes with the large battery. It was the Black-Screened 750 that had the smaller battery.

Hope some of that long-winded mess helps.
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