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allanjard
Hello all,

For a number of years now I've been using the Zaurus software index (www.killefiz.de/zaurus) for applications for my sl-5500. Now I've upgraded to a c1000, and I'm using the pdaxrom feeds for the software - I didn't realise until today that ZSI had been replaced by the Embedded Linux Software Index (www.elsix.org) - and it would appear that many are the same. I understand Roy who has been developing elsix.org doesn't have time to work on it any more and I was wondering if there was interest from others who would like to see a new central web-site for Zaurus software.

Key requirements:
- Search - the index should be easily and fully searchable - almost google like in its simplicity
- Platforms - the Zaurus community used to be rather compact, but its incredibly diverse now, and I would like to include a feature which will indicate which platform software has been created for, fully tested on and works on.
- Easy interface - so we can use it from our Z's :-)
- Feedback - (possibly using moderators) do dead links etc are removed
- Version tracking for software - so each package is only mentioned once
- Capture remote data from feeds - Feeds are used a lot now, but aren't all that helpful if you don't have access to the net from your Z. Collecting data from the feeds would save a lot of effort on the part of developers. And they could then go to the site and add information about the package (or use information from another package if its the same for a different rom etc).

Ideas taken from:
- www.killefiz.de/zaurus - wonderful site, but a little lacking in some areas and not updated much
- www.elsix.org - not updated much, a bit lack-luster.
- www.versiontracker.com - wonderul site for macintosh software
- www.rpmfind.net - very useful site for finding packages for a particular linux distro.

What do you all think?

Allan

- I'm not much of a software for an OS developer, I'm a web-developer, so this is a little way of giving something back to a very cool community... smile.gif
jamesm
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 02:59 PM)
Hello all,

For a number of years now I've been using the Zaurus software index (www.killefiz.de/zaurus) for applications for my sl-5500. Now I've upgraded to a c1000, and I'm using the pdaxrom feeds for the software - I didn't realise until today that ZSI had been replaced by the Embedded Linux Software Index (www.elsix.org) - and it would appear that many are the same. I understand Roy who has been developing elsix.org doesn't have time to work on it any more and I was wondering if there was interest from others who would like to see a new central web-site for Zaurus software.

Key requirements:
    - Search - the index should be easily and fully searchable - almost google like in its simplicity
    - Platforms - the Zaurus community used to be rather compact, but its incredibly diverse now, and I would like to include a feature which will indicate which platform software has been created for, fully tested on and works on.
    - Easy interface - so we can use it from our Z's :-)
    - Feedback - (possibly using moderators) do dead links etc are removed
    - Version tracking for software - so each package is only mentioned once
    - Capture remote data from feeds - Feeds are used a lot now, but aren't all that helpful if you don't have access to the net from your Z. Collecting data from the feeds would save a lot of effort on the part of developers. And they could then go to the site and add information about the package (or use information from another package if its the same for a different rom etc).

Ideas taken from:
    - www.killefiz.de/zaurus - wonderful site, but a little lacking in some areas and not updated much
  - www.elsix.org - not updated much, a bit lack-luster.
  - www.versiontracker.com - wonderul site for macintosh software
  - www.rpmfind.net - very useful site for finding packages for a particular linux distro.

What do you all think?

Allan

- I'm not much of a software for an OS developer, I'm a web-developer, so this is a little way of giving something back to a very cool community... smile.gif
*



Well we now have two websites that initially intended to be the "central web-site for Zaurus software" and apparently neither one is. So why not help to develop the extra functionality for one or the other (probably elsix) instead of creating "yet another" website that will probably die the same death when you get bored of maintaining it in the same way as the other two have.

Thats the problem with a lot of open source software, so much reinvention of the wheel. Why not fix whats obviously broken?
allanjard
QUOTE
Thats the problem with a lot of open source software, so much reinvention of the wheel. Why not fix whats obviously broken?


I did think about that - Roy mentioned in a different post that I found that he had opened the source for the elsix site. However, given how the site is (no offence to Roy - he's done a stirling job) I am of the opinion that it would be better of to start again - designing it from the ground up with the input of the community. Looking at the post announcing elsix.org, there is a lot of stuff there that should have been addressed in the design phase - and stuff that hasn't been implemented at all.

I can see why you think its a problem with open source - but it can also be an advantage... There is only really one site meant to be the central hub - and thats elsix.org - it replaces ZSI. But I think it can be done much better.

Of course if consensus is with your option then I will take a crack the source for elsix. Perhaps this could be elsix2?

Allan
ScottYelich
I have a machine ready for this function -- if someone else can put together people
to manage the website, etc.

I have a fast link, 2000GB/mo xfer and perhaps 100GB of space I could provide.

Please discuss here in public.

What I do not want to do is take away from any site such as ZUG, etc.
What I do not want to do is to have to spend hours a day policing forums
and/or deleting spam/pc/windows/virus uploads.

What I don't mind doing is providing a machine, bandwidth and disk space.

Scott
allanjard
QUOTE(ScottYelich @ Jun 9 2005, 03:11 PM)
I have a machine ready for this function -- if someone else can put together people to manage the website, etc.

What I do not want to do is take away from any site such as ZUG, etc. What I do not want to do is to have to spend hours a day policing forums and/or deleting spam/pc/windows/virus uploads.


Awesome! Now we have a developer - and a server smile.gif Its a good start.

I completely agree - nothing should be taken away from ZUG, or OESF - I don't propose that we make new forums or anything like that, just a site for Zaurus software. Working together as a community.

We could even provide personalised feeds which people build up based up a set of rules (ie Sharp ROM 3.1, 5500...).
dz
If this is what the community wants, then I will help support this endeavour and if you can get it rolling completely, we (the OESF) can offer the hosting and starting database. ibiblio hosts us completely free of charge, so there's no sense in putting the cost on a private individual.

I agree that the elsi could use some improvement. When I made the site, I did it with the hope that eventually I'd be able to get some help. I have had some great help with people looking for spam, but unfortunately noone's been willing to help with code. It was all fine and easy at first when I was in college and had plenty of time. On top of that, my fiance was 1000 miles away doing her internship. Now though, I have a full-time job and my fiance is back so time is much tighter. This, I am willing to bet, will be the same issue you will run in to. Time, and lack of help.

The elsi laid a solid backbone which has actually been running pretty good. I've had very, very few bugs. Anything that isn't working is that way only because I haven't programmed it in yet. Besides that, everything else runs smooth.

Also, I do really apologize for not responding to the feedback you guys send in. I get several per day, and none of them get deleted. They all get read and filed into a folder, but I really don't have time to respond to each and every one. If you go to the sourceforge site for elsi, you can see all the feature requests you've all submitted in the task list. Perhaps in the future when the oesf matures some more, we can have a dedicated person for handling those kind of requests and replying.

Anyways, as I said before, if the community really feels the elsi isn't up to par then I am all for someone building a new software repository. The goal of the elsi was not to merely replace the zsi, but to improve upon it. Most of the suggestions you guys have written in this post are easy changes I think. We just need someone with more time than I to code them in.

If what you make helps the community more then the elsi does, then you have my support.
ken
QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
I agree that the elsi could use some improvement.  When I made the site, I did it


The part that bothers me the most has simply to do with the search feature. What has happened is that I now use killefiz to find things, then go back to elsix to grab what I need, if killefiz doesn't have the link.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
help with people looking for spam, but unfortunately noone's been willing to help with code.  It was all fine and easy at first when I was in college and had plenty of


I've wanted to repair dead links, etc, but haven't heard any replies. I didn't want to "claim" the program as it wasn't mine. I simply wanted to make the corrections and move on.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
The elsi laid a solid backbone which has actually been running pretty good.  I've had very, very few bugs.  Anything that isn't working is that way only because I haven't


yes, it does appear to be stable. The slightly more complex interface isn't too bad, or the being unable to browse like I did in killefiz (which I miss) is also something I could live with. Admittedly, it does seem a bit many steps, but it's stable, and the work is appreciated.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
Also, I do really apologize for not responding to the feedback you guys send in.  I get several per day, and none of them get deleted.  They all get read and filed into a folder, but I really don't have time to respond to each and every one.  If you go to


This explains why I've never had a response.

QUOTE(dz @ Jun 9 2005, 08:59 AM)
Anyways, as I said before, if the community really feels the elsi isn't up to par then


This is certainly not the case, at least from what I see. Reinventing the wheel doesn't seem necessary. Just some slight fixes.
dz
ken, if you'd like, I can give your account mod access and then you can correct any errors that you find.

PM me with your login and I'll set you as a mod on the elsi.
allanjard
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
saiten
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 09:07 PM)
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
*


I absolutely completely dont agree - despite the best intent - ELSI was never a useable alternative to Killefiz.
It got completely lost in latest releases as opposed to the database of available app's for whatever platform. It was also much too PDAXROM orientated. Many of us dont want to use pdaxrom and wait for 60 seconds for an app' to appear.

Go back to the easy to use killefiz format and we'll all be very much more happy.

S

(I did strongly voice this when the format was first changed!)
dz
allanjard: The source is in the CVS Repository.
robertcloud
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 09:07 PM)
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
*


maybe you could make a poll?
offroadgeek
Here's my 2 cents...

I think it's crazy to scrap ELSI complete and start from scratch. While I'm not a web developer, I know a lot about web development. I've managed many, many web development projects and I've rarely ever seen a developer suggest scrapping an entire (especially newly) built system and start all over. The ELSI has a great foundation with a strong backend. The ELSI has already incorporated all of the projects and data from the ZSI.

While many people favor the simplicity of the ZSI, many still realize that simplicity is not everything, as well as the fact that the requirements for a proper software repository is more complicated, ie. being able to have the same application have multiple ipks for diifferent ROMs, automated feeds, etc.

And just for the record, Roy didn't get 'bored' with the ELSI, he simply graduated from college and landed a (great) full time job.

As Roy pointed out, we already have great hosting setup, and it's completely free! I don't see any reason to change this part.

I just don't understand the comment that ELSI is "much too PDAXROM orientated". I just don't see that...

I strongly urge the community to not just throw away something because it's not perfect and because it's different from the old, safe ZSI.
ken
QUOTE(saiten @ Jun 9 2005, 02:00 PM)
I absolutely completely dont agree - despite the best intent - ELSI was never a useable alternative to Killefiz.
It got completely lost in latest releases as opposed to the database of available app's for whatever platform. It was also much too PDAXROM orientated. Many of us dont want to use pdaxrom and wait for 60 seconds for an app' to appear.

Go back to the easy to use killefiz format and we'll all be very much more happy.


I don't use the pdaxrom. For the most part, I'm still using the plain vanilla Sharp rom. Not sure where you get the impression it's pdaxrom-centric, however, I do plan on going through most of the things that are there, finding broken links, etc.

OZ stuff wouldn't be there, as they use feeds (I think they're also stuck with that for the most part).

Once thing I am curious about though, is why they have older versions of the programs being listed. That part I'd hope would change. If we needed an older version, I'd hope the author would have it on his homepages.

edit: ok, I see how it's done. I'll be updating various places to include information on the 5500 and 6K and so forth. I'll need a little time. If you see something that needs updating, feel free to pm me. Be aware that if I edit something, I'll want to check it out myself to verify that the information is correct.

edit: ok, I've added dmblogger to see how difficult things are. I have to say it was rather difficult. There are too many required questions imo. I can't have it not show me as the author (I wanted to put the correct author's name in). I think I managed to more or less add it in, but with the many many questions ... that's a little tough! I can certainly see the attraction of killefiz in adding things in. I think it's mostly functional if it simply points to the author's pages, and if they don't have one anymore, then certainly have it hosts on elsix.

Would it be possible to have both running for the moment on elsix? I wouldn't mind updating both sides (although from my experience thus far, I probably would lean toward killefiz's method of adding things in).

edit: I have a few suggestions about elsix.

1) remove the redundant "sharp zaurus" words from the different models - we already know it's that. Keeping it there makes it harder to see the models.
2) hide the fields like pxa255, etc. or make them optional. Having so many fields makes it bothersome to add a new package
3) I started to add images to the "applications" section noticed that the image size doesn't quite work out. Perhaps make the images to fit killefiz's size (240x320 which is the screencap size for the 5x00), or something so the images resize better (publish the size of the image that it needs to be (I think it's about 160xwhatever))
4) remove some redundant information, like the line that's between the boxes
offroadgeek
QUOTE(robertcloud @ Jun 9 2005, 06:46 PM)
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 9 2005, 09:07 PM)
Okay it looks like the community feeling is to work upon the current site - I can't say I think the same way - I think we need to think about what it should include at the start rather than adding stuff on later on - but I'm very keen to help out improve the current site.

Dz: Is there any chance I could have a look at the source - the SourceForge site says there aren't any files for the project.

Thanks
Allan
*


maybe you could make a poll?
*



We could, but I would rather not right away so that people could thing about this thoroughly, and post their feedback to justifiy why we should go one way or the other.
xjqian
certainly search could be imporved as discussed in this link

another big problem for me is from a package's page, I have to click the following to download a package

1. Latest (version)1.4.1
2. Click Here to download this release.
3. ROMs: Blah, blah...
4. All the required libraries are accounted for. Click Here to download DmBlogger.

This is very very inconvenient (even on a desktop). much worse than the simple one click in ZSI

Can't somebody just move all the links for different ROMs (#3) to and display them in the package's page. Then a single click will solve it all.
pgas
QUOTE
I just don't understand the comment that ELSI is "much too PDAXROM orientated". I just don't see that...


As a matter of fact I don't think elsi contains a single pdaxrom package.
dhns
As I had stated in the ELSIX forum, my primary concern is about the front page:

make it as clearly arranged as killefiz or http://www.macupdate.com

All other proposals for improvement are important, but on a lower priority.

Now comes the crucial question: dz has asked for developers, help, and support
And there is nobody saying yes, great, I'll do it (not even myself). We are just reporting more bugs and making new suggestions...

So, we all participate in this project as users who want this and that.

What are the reasons? Here my personal list of thoughts:
* I have other (Zaurus and Macintosh) projects running with high priority (non-web-oriented)
* I don't want to set up a development environment on my development system
* how would I do that? I probably need a fresh mySQL database.
* But is there demo content? How would I be able to test with an empty database.
* How to configure (change the PHP code) to use my local database?
* I have some experience with PHP, but I always find it difficult to understand PHP code not written by me
* has the original author enough time to explain how things are working? Is it well documented? Modifying code can be done only after understanding it
* I should register with Sourceforge and the project to be able to contribute
* what is the process of approving/publishing changes I make? Do I have to ask offroadgeek and dz first (that might be the origin of the idea "let's make a new database" - wanting to have control over everything)

So, there are some barriers to jump on that project - even if it is openly available on Sourceforge.

-- hns
ken
QUOTE(xjqian @ Jun 9 2005, 10:22 PM)
4. All the required libraries are accounted for. Click Here to download DmBlogger.


actually, the weird entry for dmblogger is my fault. It's the first time I added a package, and I wanted to make sure people knew about the package, but am still working out the details. I wasn't sure if the translation for 1.3.1 would work, and haven't had time to investigate it. I listed the various dependencies so people would be aware of it. I made sure the link to the dependencies as well as the package itself was there, to make it easier.

I'm still trying to figure it all out, so please bear with the entry I made (I'm not the author, but felt adding it would be useful).
allanjard
Hi all,

There seems to be a very definite split opinion about the elsi. General consensus is that the current site could be quite vastly improved. Please don't think I'm knocking all the hard work that has already been put into it - I'm not - I appreciate it and what the developers have done smile.gif. But there are two camps about whether to remake it or continue developing the current one.

I've downloaded the CVS of the site (thanks for pointing that out dz) and had a look at the code. It is indeed very tidy, but it it a totally different style from my own, so it will take me a little bit to get used to it and start making any changes.

On the other hand - starting again (using the same database...) would probably take just as long to get a working site. But it has the advantage of integrating new features at the start - rather than bolting them on.

I have to also admit I'm not a huge fan of the elsi's ui. I agree that something simpler is required - where information can be easily accessed, quickly.

A
dz
Ok, so from what it seems, the major gripes with the elsi are the UI and the search. I hope these aren't the only grounds for scrapping the entire site and starting fresh.

The elsi can easily have a new ui. The front page can easily be slimmed down.

The reason that it takes a lot to submit a project is because when we first started the elsi, the whole goal was to make it very easy for users to download a project. A feature, that isn't used and can be pulled I suppose, is the one where a user can go to download a project and get a link to all the libraries required. This feature was something everyone wanted at first, and now that it's implemented, noone's using it. I can take that out.

As far as fixing the search, that's something that can be worked on. I just implemented a quick and easy search that worked for the time being.

A direct link to download the latest version is something that I can include on the front project page as well.

Regardless, all of these are easy fixes and I don't really think it's worth scrapping the entire thing instead of implementing the fixes.
allanjard
QUOTE
Regardless, all of these are easy fixes and I don't really think it's worth scrapping the entire thing instead of implementing the fixes.


Fair enough. One of the reasons I suggested starting again was because I am opposed to the idea of bolting on extra features - I prefer actually designing them in from the start. Also - although I haven't actually seen the back end, from what little I can make out of it from the site, I have a few ideas which may help package maintainers, and incourage them to use the site.

It seems to me that not many people are actually aware of the site, and even fewer acutally use it...

A
offroadgeek
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 10 2005, 05:49 AM)
It seems to me that not many people are actually aware of the site, and even fewer acutally use it...

A
*

I beg to differ. I would bet that most of the Zaurus community, except for maybe some newbies at least know about ELSI. But actual usage of it might be a different story. At least the ELSI is getting new application/project submissions in recent monts.
ken
QUOTE(dz @ Jun 10 2005, 01:18 AM)
The reason that it takes a lot to submit a project is because when we first started the elsi, the whole goal was to make it very easy for users to download a project.  A feature, that isn't used and can be pulled I suppose, is the one where a user can go to download a project and get a link to all the libraries required.  This feature was


Sort of, I think. It's desireable from the standpoint of trying to figure out what's what. If the author of the page sufficiently documents what's needed, then that basically addresses that issue. I will say though it was quite a lot of questions that had to be addressed.

Killefiz had pics and a quick way to see what's what, and the search was also quick. Essentially it was simple to find what I needed.

Once I found what was needed, then I had 2 issues. Could it run alone, and if not, what was needed. That part became part of the expected things.

As long as the dependencies were listed, it was fairly trivial. Sometimes I had to hunt for a certain version of things. Which is where the forums became great for.

The effort is appreciated, very much so. I think for killefiz's site it was just having some kind of mechanism to remove the junk that it lacked. Oh, and also the question of when he had time to update things. Overall I really did like how he did it. Simple to see a lot of things (I loved that one line thing per item) and if I was really interested in it, then I could look at it, and see a screenshot or a few screenshots. Having a single line at that point to tell me additional info, like what roms (optional) or what Z (optional) would have been nice. Other than that, I was fairly happy with it.

I should mention that I still actively use his site a lot when trying to find something. If he would apply me to edit things, I'd probably happily update things there (I was sad when he stopped all updates).
allanjard
Okay this is how I see it from this thread - the elsi is not what the community wants - major changes are needed in how it works and what it does. The developers think that the next step should build upon what is currently there, and the community at large doesn't really care as long as it does what they require.

I'm very interested in helping to build up a repository for Zaurus software - so I'm confused so to whether I should start work on a new one to replace elsi, or help develop the old one, if the developers will let me help out.

dz and offroadgeek: are you guys going to have time to work on the site? I know your time is pressured (as it is for us all) - but if you are going to work on the site, then I would like to work with you. If however, you are going to be able to do very little development I think it makes sense to start again. At least to build a small prototype and see what people think.

Thanks
Allan
offroadgeek
QUOTE(allanjard @ Jun 10 2005, 05:47 PM)
Okay this is how I see it from this thread - the elsi is not what the community wants - major changes are needed in how it works and what it does. The developers think that the next step should build upon what is currently there, and the community at large doesn't really care as long as it does what they require.

I'm very interested in helping to build up a repository for Zaurus software - so I'm confused so to whether I should start work on a new one to replace elsi, or help develop the old one, if the developers will let me help out.

dz and offroadgeek: are you guys going to have time to work on the site? I know your time is pressured (as it is for us all) - but if you are going to work on the site, then I would like to work with you. If however, you are going to be able to do very little development I think it makes sense to start again. At least to build a small prototype and see what people think.

Thanks
Allan
*

It's funny you say that.... too bad you weren't around when the ELSI was first built (not that long ago). Roy (dz) got tons of feedback from the community as to what we all wanted, and that's what was developed.

From this thread, it seems that the majority of people are looking for a simple interface. I don't see why you (working with Roy and maybe others) can't just build a new slimmer interface for the ELSI? The database and structure that Roy built is rock solid.

Personally I don't think the project submission (for project owners/maintainers) should be too simple. That was one of the challenges with the ZSI. It's nice to be able to have multiple revisions on there (even though some are only interested in the latest). That said, I do agree that the initial page UI should be simple and clean, and allow users to be able to download an IPK with just a few clicks. This could easily be accomplished by having a "shortcut" link that bypasses the various questions and points to the latest release for a particular rom. And if someone want's to check to make sure they have all the necessary libs, they can click a link that takes them down a different (slightly more complicated) path.

Roy and I are partners in the OESF (soon to be non profit that oversees the ZUG, OESF site and forums, and the ELSI. Roy is a developer (obviously) and I am not (I'm better at other things, what those are I've yet to figure out...).

I think it would be great if you could help with the ELSI. I can easlily set you up with a dev ELSI site and db with full control.

Before you decide to create something from scratch, why don't you take a peek at the ELSI source as well as the backend db and structure. Then maybe the three of us can talk and see what you think...
allanjard
Hi offroadgeek/

That sounds like a great idea. I'd very much like to help out. I think that I personally would find an improved site very useful and hopefully other will to. A dev site where I can mess around with things sounds perfect for testing things out and seeing what we've got. smile.gif

Thanks
Allan
ken
ok, one more thing that I think elsix needs.

I notice that there doesn't seem to be a way (not that I've found) to update the changelog (no edit access). I think it appeared if I was adding a project, but after that, I couldn't get to that option.

After I had made a submission, I discovered that I had neglected to add a date, which I felt would be useful to the information I had put in the changelog, and noticed I was stuck and couldn't do it.

I've been slowly updating the website, now that I've been given some access. Updating screenshots takes a long time (I've mostly done the "travel" section) and trying to find broken links, etc.

One more feature it needs is to add multiple images (which killefiz had).

Also, I've been seeing this error whenever I add a new package:

Warning: mysql_result(): supplied argument is not a valid MySQL result resource in /public/vhost/e/elsix/html/mod.php on line 421
If what you see below is acceptable, please scroll down and click on 'Done'.

Also, I've noticed that I can't really fix broken links by removing them completely or the package completely. I can only do this to new entries, not ones that are dead and in the system for a while.

note: each edit requires a lot of steps to make even a single change. Something more raw in interface for edits would be great. I find myself going back again and again to how killefiz's system was. If we could somehow convince him to let us edit the existing database he has (having the pics would help immensely). I wouldn't mind taking the time to clean up his database. New entries are easy to spot, as he keeps track of the order things are done. It may seem more work to remove spam entries, but that's the price one tends to pay for opening things up. I'm okay with that, as long as I'd be able to remove such things.

Having to scroll through so much screen is hard on people with smaller screens.

There is so much more positive that killefiz's system has than negatives. Is there not something that we can do regarding it?
allanjard
Hi guys,

Okay - I'm really looking forward to working on this - however... I'm going to be away on holiday this coming week. Please keep suggestions coming into me: allan.jardine { No AT spam } sprypanel.com, or here - and I'll take as many on board as possible. When I get back next week I'll combine it all together and give you all feedback as to what I think I'll do, and get more feedback from you guys... etc etc.

Thanks
Allan
Cresho
you guys are going at it the wrong way!

what you need to do is get killer filez working or updating or what ever. its been there for years and all we need to do is ask the owner if we can help out!

it's perfect!

we dont need a website running from a home...It needs to be a real server.

we need something that is familiar and has been around for a long time.

and we need someone to dive in there once in a while to touch up the files and also create subdivisions for c1000, c3000, sl5500....etc.

and this killerfilez is number one in google search engine when you search zaurus. it is convenient.

opening and redooing and subdividint and splitting like the roms is just dividing up the community.


Since this community is so small, we do not need to subdivide, change, redoo nothing. just enhance what we have and make it work.

killer filez is the central output for files and should remain. No house servers no nothing.

lets just help out the dude whos running it and im willing to put some time behind it.

ohh...im at work btw so i didnt read through the thread!
omro
QUOTE
From this thread, it seems that the majority of people are looking for a simple interface. I don't see why you (working with Roy and maybe others) can't just build a new slimmer interface for the ELSI? The database and structure that Roy built is rock solid.


Would it be possible for people to get hold of a copy of the database? Would this not allow the interested developers to experiment with the existing data?

My thoughts...

the data is there, would be better to use it than start again.

the site is there, the name is known, rather than start again upgrade the site that already exists.

if people want to start again from scratch with the UI and search, that doesn't mean that underlying data needs to change in anyway.
daemon1
would like to add a suggestion for the improved site smile.gif

a versiontracker like interface with screenshots, links to developers site, user comments and sub sections for each hardware and rom
allanjard
Hi all,

Sorry - I should have made myself clear earlier on. I would like to use the database that we already have, as repeating all of that work is most likely a waste of time. Its possible that I'll need to make a few changes to the structure etc of the database for any new features - but we'll see smile.gif

Keep the ideas coming...

Allan
ScottYelich
Has this been covered -- but the biggest issue I had with killefiz was that the files
weren't local. I'm not sure if there was some sort of legal / ownership issues with keeping local version -- but it was quite annoying how many links were dead... and thus how much software was lost and perhaps no longer available to the community.

I think I will like just about anything -- as long as the software is kept local to that system.

Scott
ken
QUOTE(ScottYelich @ Jun 18 2005, 04:42 AM)
Has this been covered -- but the biggest issue I had with killefiz was that the files
weren't local.  I'm not sure if there was some sort of legal / ownership issues with keeping local version -- but it was quite annoying how many links were dead... and thus how much software was lost and perhaps no longer available to the community.


I can't update killefiz, but I've been doing updates on elsix, slowly finding files and such. Take a look there and it's possible it may be there.
offroadgeek
QUOTE(ScottYelich @ Jun 18 2005, 06:42 AM)
Has this been covered -- but the biggest issue I had with killefiz was that the files
weren't local.  I'm not sure if there was some sort of legal / ownership issues with keeping local version -- but it was quite annoying how many links were dead... and thus how much software was lost and perhaps no longer available to the community.

I think I will like just about anything -- as long as the software is kept local to that system.

Scott
*

Sven (killefiz owner) simply didn't want the hassle of hosting the files locally (bandwidth, space, etc). This was one of the biggest issues that people had with killefiz that we resolved with ELSI. The ELSI is NOT hosting on any home computer... it's hosted at ibilio.org (all hail ibiblio!). We basically have unlimited bandwidth (on a serious backbone) and disk space.

Roy (dz) and I will be working with allanjard to come up with a great solution for the community. We'll likely turn it into a community project where anyone can contribute (feedback, coding, testing, whatever).

I personally don't think just because killefiz has been google indexed so much that we should stick with killfiz. Though I still don't know why sven hasn't done a url re-direct from killefiz to ELSI.
omro
Has Sven of Killefiz fallen out with the Zaurus community?
speculatrix
It occurs to me that the OESF forums could be used as a simple software index.

Create a top level forum category called downloads. Under it, a the various categories for software types (email, fun, security, web, editor, development). Then the specific packages live under there.

Impose a specific template for adding a software package. When the package gets updated, add a new posting to the forum.

It's a bit hackery, but it'd work.

The clever part of it all is making the search work.

However, all that said, I like ELSIX. Yes, you've got to think a little bit when finding software, but, damnit, we're Zaurus users and should have a few braincells. I posted a package to it, and it wasn't too hard (except that I didn't know which CPU to select) really. The only thing that needs sorting out is making the search a bit more sophisticated, and the page layout a quick tidy-up.

Paul
omro
zaurusoft.com is a site I just found, hadn't found before...
ev1l
QUOTE(omro @ Jun 20 2005, 11:17 AM)
zaurusoft.com is a site I just found, hadn't found before...
*

That honestly looks a lot better/more accessible than Elsix.
What pains me is that we're an embedded software community, and both the forums and the software index are badly accessible to mobile browsers (the Lo-fi version of the forum is also low-functionality sad.gif )
ScottYelich
QUOTE(ken @ Jun 18 2005, 11:34 AM)
QUOTE(ScottYelich @ Jun 18 2005, 04:42 AM)

Has this been covered -- but the biggest issue I had with killefiz was that the files
weren't local.  I'm not sure if there was some sort of legal / ownership issues with keeping local version -- but it was quite annoying how many links were dead... and thus how much software was lost and perhaps no longer available to the community.


I can't update killefiz, but I've been doing updates on elsix, slowly finding files and such. Take a look there and it's possible it may be there.
*



I tried elsix once or twice, but all I ever got was a click link to a page to click link to a page.... mostly empty dead ends. I haven't used it since... has it changed?

Scott

EDIT -- just went and checked... checked out mplayer from front page, clicked on download latest... checked all the roms -- all pages were without the ipk to download. Am I doing something wrong? Is there anyway to filter on just pdaXrom and/or any way to just see which files are actually there? :->
omro
In answering another post, it struck me that a known compatibility with the existing roms would be a useful feature of any software site, that would allow people to know what apps run on what.
Mickeyl
QUOTE(omro @ Jun 18 2005, 10:25 AM)
Has Sven of Killefiz fallen out with the Zaurus community?

Killefiz no longer uses a Zaurus. He replaced it with a laptop.
omro
QUOTE(Mickeyl @ Jun 25 2005, 09:05 AM)
QUOTE(omro @ Jun 18 2005, 10:25 AM)
Has Sven of Killefiz fallen out with the Zaurus community?

Killefiz no longer uses a Zaurus. He replaced it with a laptop.
*



I'm assuming then that he uses the majority of the site for other things, could he not be asked to simply redirect the url for the zaurus software part of his site to the prefered Zaurus software site, so that even if the search engines are still saying his site is the number 1 for Zaurus software, the redirect throws them to the elsix site?
ken
QUOTE(omro @ Jun 25 2005, 07:14 AM)
I'm assuming then that he uses the majority of the site for other things, could he not be asked to simply redirect the url for the zaurus software part of his site to the prefered Zaurus software site, so that even if the search engines are still saying his site is the number 1 for Zaurus software, the redirect throws them to the elsix site?


He pretty much earned the right to have it high up in the search engines imo. Redirecting traffic isn't something he "has" to do. If he does it, cool, if he doesn't, then that's cool too.

I'm just hoping one day he'll decide to get back into it.
omro
I never said he "had" to do anything, I was just wondering if it was something that he could do, in order to allow the zaurus users to find the software without being lost on his site that he's no longer interested in updating, which is totally understandable.
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