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Full Version: Z + Modem + Cellphone = Mobile Internet?
OESF Forums > Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums > Model Specific Forums > C1000/3x00 General discussions
flyguy
Is it possible to connect a Z to a cellphone, and then use a dialup provider to get mobile internet access?

Thanks,

Louis
microsoft/linux
I understand there are ways to do it w/ a laptop, at least in Windows. I don't know about the Z though. Why not use a Wifi card?
flyguy
A wifi card requires a wifi router - a cellphone requires a tower. much easier to find towers.
daemon1
can use gprs which is faster than connecting to your dialip isp..

most phones these days have the AT command set built in... you can connect to them via infrared or bluetooth... if you dial into your isp you can get data at around 9600bps or alternatively use your carrier's "isp" by using gprs roughly at 56000-115200bps.

in my experience the speeds are perfectly acceptible using gprs and very handy to use your z almost anywhere to connect to the net.

ive set up how to do it using c3000 and bluetooth via se630 phone www.neoresearch.org/gilbert/zaurus.html
tms@infamous.net
I've been able to plug my Z into my Verizon phone (Samsung a650) with a USB cable and get on the net that way. It took a bit of setup (have to mknod the tty devices for the acm kernel module, and give pppd and chat the right incantations). I will document this sometime in the next two weeks or so, just don't have time right now.

Main caveat is that NetFront is trying to be to smart, doesn't see that the network is up via ppp and keeps asking if I want to bring it up...I have to use a fake wi-fi connection to shut it up. Annoying. But I can ssh out, which was my main goal. (I got my Z with the hopes of being able to do this.)
adf
PLEAESE do document this. It is something I have been meaning to do.... and if you have it working... well it would save me a headache.

also..any body know clearly about what constitutes "voice data" and what is considered "digital data?"
I think there is a serious price difference--and I'm only really interested in using free evening and weekend connections to dial into a server at (as voice data?) home, etc... not at all interested in paying $$$ per meg tongue.gif
Cresho
YES YOU CAN!

first off!

answer these questions by yourself or post em here so people can really help you.

I use bluez drivers on a c1000 networked dialup digital access through my siemens s56 using ambicom made in taiwan bluetooth. my cellphone gives me 56k speeds even when i am on the freeway(someone else driving of course)

anyway

answer these questions

do you pay for digital access through your cellphone company?

do you have bluetooth capability on the cell phone?

if your cell phone has infrared and digital access, you can use the irda beam to access the internet instead of using bluetooth. the problem with irda is that the beam has to be aligned or you loose connection. with bluetooth, you can browse the net while your cellphone is locked away in the glove compartment

if you have digital accessthrough your cellular provider, irda(infrared) cellphone, post here and we will post away till you get your pda accessing the net with irda first before we get complicated with the usb cable or bluetooth.

if you do from the above and you are using what was once at&t, create a new connection and use as a dialup number *99#. do not use username or password leave blank. align the irda of zaurus to cellphone and connect. it is tricky cuz you may need to reboot zaurus and cellphone a couple of times before you can connect. Bluetooth is a luxery. i have a siemens s56 that has a irda and bluetooth.

let us know dude!
adf
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jul 14 2005, 05:56 AM)
YES YOU CAN!

first off!

answer these questions by yourself or post em here so people can really help you.

I use bluez drivers on a c1000 networked dialup digital access through my siemens s56 using ambicom made in taiwan bluetooth.  my cellphone gives me 56k speeds even when i am on the freeway(someone else driving of course)

anyway

answer these questions

do you pay for digital access through your cellphone company?

do you have bluetooth capability on the cell phone?

if your cell phone has infrared and digital access, you can use the irda beam to access the internet instead of using bluetooth.  the problem with irda is that the beam has to be aligned or you loose connection.  with bluetooth, you can browse the net while your cellphone is locked away in the glove compartment

if you have digital accessthrough your cellular provider, irda(infrared) cellphone, post here and we will post away till you get your pda accessing the net with irda first before we get complicated with the usb cable or bluetooth.

if you do from the above and you are using what was once at&t, create a new connection and use as a dialup number *99#.  do not use username or password leave blank.  align the irda of zaurus to cellphone and connect.  it is tricky cuz you may need to reboot zaurus and cellphone a couple of times before you can connect.  Bluetooth is a luxery.  i have a siemens s56 that has a irda and bluetooth.

let us know dude!
*

Going fishing for a week or so tomorrow. Was hoping to have this done by then..but haven't even started.

My cell service does not include digital access... it can be done but it is about an 8 meg per month transfer limit.. and fees usually asssociated with hostage negotiations thereafter. They are in fact my isp as well, though. The phone in question is a nokia 6230 (gsm). It has BT and a usb adapter, too... which gets me into either connecting to it w/ usb, or possibly using a usb BT dongle w/ pda Xrom (or eventually getting the z modded for BT..buit that's another story.).

If it helps, the telco/cableco/cellco/isp is GCI in Alaska.

Thanks smile.gif

(just put up a dfferent server -p2 400sarge/stable-..haven't yet configured dial in..but that's also another story)

If I understand correctly, I can use the phone as an actual modem and only get dinged for voice data..is this generally the case? As I said the "digital service" from my phone is billed like a hospital visit, and I really don't want any part of it. As you might have noticed, I'n not at all up on what constitutes cellphone digital service and how that is differentiated from modem/dialup data.

Is this useful info?

guess I'll bring the Z..there is a hotspot or two where I'm staying.
chrget
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 14 2005, 10:35 AM)
If I understand correctly, I can use the phone as an actual modem and only get dinged for voice data..is this generally the case?
*
Short and simple answer: NO!

Digital cellular uses so-called speech codecs for audio transport. These are specifically designed for speech and discard most anything in the audio spectrum that isn't needed for that. So hooking up an analog modem to it might produce some modem-like noises at the other end, but it will be impossible to reconstruct the data from it. Rumour has it that very low speeds (i.e. FSK at max. 300 baud) do in fact work, but it's not something I have tried myself, so I can't vouch for it.

Best regards,
Chris.
mulveyr
QUOTE(chrget @ Jul 14 2005, 08:13 AM)
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 14 2005, 10:35 AM)
If I understand correctly, I can use the phone as an actual modem and only get dinged for voice data..is this generally the case?
*
Short and simple answer: NO!

Digital cellular uses so-called speech codecs for audio transport. These are specifically designed for speech and discard most anything in the audio spectrum that isn't needed for that. So hooking up an analog modem to it might produce some modem-like noises at the other end, but it will be impossible to reconstruct the data from it. Rumour has it that very low speeds (i.e. FSK at max. 300 baud) do in fact work, but it's not something I have tried myself, so I can't vouch for it.

Best regards,
Chris.
*



Well, except your short and simple answer isn't correct.

Modern mobile phones almost invariably include the ability for the phone to act as a modem. It doesn't make a whit of difference that in a digital phone system the bandwidth is filtered to those used by the human voice - because that's precisely what landline systems do, as well.

When I was with Sprint, I used my digital cell phone to dial up modems with the phone's internal modem all the time. Now that I'm on Verizon, I use their 1xrtt system on my phone to get 144Kbps net connectivity, as well as being able to dial into terminal servers that have standard 56K analog modems on them, on a regular basis, when I'm out in the field. And it all works perfectly well.

- Rich
chrget
QUOTE(mulveyr @ Jul 14 2005, 03:53 PM)
  Well, except your short and simple answer isn't correct.

  Modern mobile phones almost invariably include the ability for the phone to act as a modem.  It doesn't make a whit of difference that in a digital phone system the bandwidth is filtered to those used by the human voice - because that's precisely what landline systems do, as well. 
Go reread the posts leading up to this. Understand them. Think about it again.

We were talking about using GSM voice services for data. And when it comes to that, my statement holds 100% true, I'm afraid.

Voice circuits in GSM are not just 'filtered'. Go read up on low-bitrate voice codecs and how they work. You won't get high-speed FSK/PSK/<insert favourite V.xx modulation here> across them. Period.

If and when data is transmitted in digital cellular such as GSM, it's flagged as such and in fact sent more or less verbatim across the digital link. Technically the phone doesn't really act as a 'classic' modem, even though it represents itself as such (much the same as, say, external ISDN TAs) to the DTE.

QUOTE(mulveyr @ Jul 14 2005, 03:53 PM)
  When I was with Sprint, I used my digital cell phone to dial up modems with the phone's internal modem all the time.  Now that I'm on Verizon, I use their 1xrtt system on my phone to get 144Kbps net connectivity, as well as being able to dial into terminal servers that have standard 56K analog modems on them, on a regular basis, when I'm out in the field.  And it all works perfectly well.
*
Obviously it works perfectly well. But this has to do with the fact you are using data services.

As for connecting to standard analog modems -- what happens is that the data is in fact sent digitally using data services to an outgoing modem pool at your cellular provider, from where an actual analog modem connection is initiated into POTS over which your data is sent. Again, no magic there either. And no GSM voice circuit as well.

Best regards,
Chris.
Cresho
sorry guys.

i can connect my cellphone to my zaurus in 2 ways

irda
bluetooth

unlimited data access through cellphone is 24 dollars a month.

i also have bluetooth to my laptop which i use my laptop from school to access the net right through the cellphone.
adf
Guess I'll have to wait till alaska charges normal fees for data.

I suppose right now shipping all those bytes up here by air freight just costs the telco too much to provide reasonable service.

Thanks.

unlmited for 24? LOL mine is 8 megs for 15. with the overages it would cost me about $50 to look at an illsutrated how-to
edoc
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jul 14 2005, 11:01 AM)
unlimited data access through cellphone is 24 dollars a month.


Which service is this, please?

I am on Alltel.

Tnx! doc
bluedevils
I"m researching this and sprint is $15 a month for unlimited data
Cresho
sprint is 15 bucks a month unlimited data? man i think its time for me to switch providers. i read somehwere verizon is cheaper.
ins0mniaque
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jan 21 2006, 09:23 PM)
sprint is 15 bucks a month unlimited data?  man i think its time for me to switch providers.  i read somehwere verizon is cheaper.
*


You're all lucky to be in the US... in Canada, Rogers charges 60$ for unlimited data (and they limit "unlimited" to 25 Mb / month, charging 1 or 2 $ per additional Mb, which can easily make a 700$ bill in a month for only ~ 200 Mb ). In fact, if they allowed roaming more then 6 months per year, it would be cheaper to get a cellphone in the US, and roam all year long.
bluedevils
After doing more research it is $40 for unlimited data and dun. It is $25 for 40MB/month data and dun. The $15 a month is for unlimited data on the phone only, but I've read posts where sprint users were able to use dun no problem as long as they were not abusing it (large downloads).
xjqian
QUOTE(bluedevils @ Feb 21 2006, 12:51 PM)
After doing more research it is $40 for unlimited data and dun.  It is $25 for 40MB/month data and dun.  The $15 a month is for unlimited data on the phone only, but I've read posts where sprint users were able to use dun no problem as long as they were not abusing it (large downloads).
*


sprint turned off the dun service in my bluetooth phone 6 month ago. Don't know if it affects others also.

Edit: The Sprint does work for me on PM-325.
bluedevils
that's interesting because the samsung a920 is advertised with dun (ftp deactivated) and when you choose the phone it gives you the option for the "phone as a modem" plan.

I know the treos were bluetooth dun disabled at introduction, but have since been reenabled

In prep I've got my iptable profiles ready and I'm trying to setup fetchmail on my zaurus server so I can securely get my mail.
Deviant25
I've wanted to do this for awhile, but got real busy with college work.. The farthest ive gotten was connecting my Verizon LG VX-8000 via usb cable to zaurus and reading the dmsg...

Can you please post a tutorial for that samsung phone? This would be real sweet since i leach off verizon's EVDO network getting 3megabits download speed on my laptop and i dont even pay for it, since verizon dosent consider my phone a pda phone and dosent care ( i limit to about 100-200mb downloads a month on laptop if i'm out somewhere) If not then i use 1x which is decently fast.
bluedevils
Actually the whole setup was easy and intuitive. The part that was difficult is that both the phone and the socket cards were in states of limbo and I couldn't tell. At one point I rebooted the phone and then everything just fell into place.

on the a920. You can have it search for a trusted device or wait for a request, to make a pairing. You must make the phone "visible" in order for the Z to see the phone, but once the settings are made you could keep it hidden.

on the Z use sdptool to find the a920's settings (BT MAC and channel for DUN). Add the info to the bluetooth - ppp in the networking app or use the search tool within the profile. Enter #777 as phone number and use sprint's vision username and password. Voila!
bluedevils
As far as the service is concerned, I was a little disappointed to learn they have an image proxy that will compress images. There are two saving graces, though. One is that if you hit reload, it will let the full image through, the other is if the browser's user-agent is set to certain browsers (blazer/4.1), you will surf uncompressed. Currently netfront works like this, but I have to look into getting opera to do the same. With image compression, it feels closer to cable speeds. Without compression if feels closer to DSL.
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