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Micla
Hi everybody,

I'm surprised not to find more discussions about the port of KDE 3.4 on pdaXrom.

This seems however to be one of the greatest recent news, and a new topic is perfectly justified.

The first questions that could/should be discussed here are :

1. Is there a "HowTo" or a general doc for installing KDE above pdaXrom ?
2. Could KDE run above other Zaurus ROMs ?
3. What are the applications already available with this KDE ?
4. What are the compatibility issues between native KDE apps and pre-existing pdaXrom apps ?
5. Is there a gcc sdkable to recompile on Zaurus (and for Zaurus) simple applications taken in the KDE source repository (or other repositories) ?

I hope that this thread may carry many more questions again. A great new door is opened, let's use it.

Hi readers, reply, send comments, add questions, correct mistakes, but don't let this thread quiet !

Micla.
pgas
this thread contains some information about kde:

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12702

* edit url fixed
Micla
QUOTE(pgas @ Jul 13 2005, 02:14 AM)
this thread contains some information about kde:

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1270
*


topic 1270 ...? You are sure ...?

Well, anyway, I've found some threads speaking about KDE, but obviously a thread fully dedicated to this matter is still necessary.
pgas
ooops I cut a digit, this one:

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12702

( kde thread)
Micla
A question just following the need of a "HowTo install KDE" above pdaXrom :

What about a "HowTo ... reinstall it", when the first installation has aborted, and you cannot find a way to make the install run.

For example : I have made the install of KDE on a dedicated "ext2" partition on my CF card, with perfect respect of advices found on this forums. And then my pdaXrom has no longer given signs of life.

So I reinstalled pdaXrom from the three install files. But my CF is still filled with a complete stuff of /usr things related to kde, and I'm completely unable to "reconnect" it with the newly reinstalled pdaXrom.

There are surely variables to declare in some .xxxrc files, and also some additional dirs to add to the PATH. But, what, where, how (why, how much) ...?

Would there be any doc explaining what must be done "the day after" ... after the first unsuccessful install ?

"Installing" is a great activity in software, but the more I use free software, the more I discover that the greatest activity (in time spent) is to re-install, which is frequently far more difficult !!!

Ideas, links, comments ? ... "docs" ?
Micla
QUOTE(pgas @ Jul 13 2005, 02:44 AM)
ooops I cut a digit, this one:

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12702

( kde thread)
*



Yes, thank's ! But I read it already. Perhaps more : maybe I "learned" it. But either it's not precise enough, either I understand slowly ... Humm let's say 50 / 50.

There is also another link which I don't find again at the moment. What has helped me the more (until here) are the pages about CF partitioning and formating.

But ... It has obviously not been sufficient. No matter, my install *will* work.
Chero
Hi,

Some questions:

What Z are you using ?
What does package manager say (is KDE in "installed" or "available"). I flashed my Z a couple of days ago, KDE was on SD before and it still works after flashing.
When you type "startkde" in an aterm, what does it say?

Chero.
Micla
QUOTE(Chero @ Jul 13 2005, 04:05 AM)
Hi,

Some questions:

What Z are you using ?
What does package manager say (is KDE in "installed" or "available"). I flashed my Z a couple of days ago, KDE was on SD before and it still works after flashing.
When you type "startkde" in an aterm, what does it say?

Chero.
*


I have a 860 and a CF card 512 MB, partitioned (since yesterday, or maybe even this morning very very soon !!!) in hda1 - ~340 MB - FAT16 and hda2 - 180MB - ext2.

The command says "bash: starkde: command not found". Which is perfectly normal since all the kde stuff is on the CF, and nothing on the newly flashed pdaXrom indicates to it that it has to go and find it on /mnt/cflinux/usr/blablabla.

What is even more tiring is that the "/etc/fstab" looses the memory during the flash operation (which is normal, in fact). Then, I always have to ad the line
"/dev/hda2<tab>/mnr/cflinux<tab>auto<tab>noauto,owner<tab>0<3 or 4 x blank>0"
so as to help him recover memory.

You think there is an easy way to go around that ?

And when I could get my hda2 mounted, and made the link "ln -sf blablabla ~/.xinitrc" (found I don't remember where on this forum), there is really something called "starkde" whcih starts, and then crashes some tenth of seconds later, saying blablabla not found, blablabla unreachable, blablabla unauthorized.

Well, some day I'm more precise ... Tired perhaps ... If you need, I can redo all the manip and give you a faithful track of the result.

Thank's for any help.
Micla
QUOTE(Chero @ Jul 13 2005, 04:05 AM)
Hi,

Some questions:

What Z are you using ?
What does package manager say (is KDE in "installed" or "available"). I flashed my Z a couple of days ago, KDE was on SD before and it still works after flashing.
When you type "startkde" in an aterm, what does it say?

Chero.
*


Sorry, I missed a part of the answer : the graphical package manager does not have "kde" in its "installed packages". More, I saw that my $PATH contains /usr/lib/kde/bin
even if this dir. doesn't exist. The dir. which exists is /mnt/cflinux/usr/lib/kde/bin.

There are mistakes in mistakes. Is there some hope, doctor ?
Chero
There's always hope !
BTW, there are real doctors around here but I'm just a nurse.

About your cf : 340 + 180 = 520. I'm not sure you can have this on a 512Mb cf.
Are you sure your ext2 partition is big enough ?

If you are, try reinstalling using "ipkg":

# ipkg -d /mnt/cflinux install (package.you.want.to.install)
Install both kde packages this way (libs and base)

Check the output.
If i installs OK, startx (the default window manager)
In an aterm : "startkde", wait.

If kde starts OK, quit it again, quit matchbox, then do the ln -s trick on the .xinitrc-file.
(it is explained in the thread pgas mentioned). Or better : modify it so you have the choice between matchbox and kde (and a lot of others if you like). (this is also explained in the thread pgas mentioned)

Chero.
adf
does khtml work? was that something I neglected?or something missing?
law
where can i find the source from the kdelibs and kdebase package?

are there any patches applied how looks the ./configure command?

can you give me some infos please?

thanks

law
pgas
QUOTE
where can i find the source from the kdelibs and kdebase package?

are there any patches applied how looks the ./configure command?


Download the builder:
http://212.10.30.205/rc10/builder/

you will find in a file the url from which the sources are downloaded as well as the patches. you will need to search a little... (not i didn't check if kde has been added but I think it should have)

(instructions for using the builder here:
http://212.10.30.205/docs/pdaxrom-builder/...-rom-yourself/)
Micla
QUOTE(Chero @ Jul 13 2005, 08:17 AM)
About your cf : 340 + 180 = 520. I'm not sure you can have this on a 512Mb cf.
  Well, you're right : we should always be precise :
  - my FAT16 partition is
  - my ext2 partition is

Are you sure your ext2 partition is big enough ?
  No ... I'm sure of nothing.  Is there a way to know what is the size needed.

If you are, try reinstalling using "ipkg":
  I've tried "however" ...:
  But it appear that I have pbs with my compact flash card.  I cannot have it mounted automatically at startup.
  Breaking news : at the second where I write this, I make a last test, and I find that "ls /mnt/cflinux" runs perfectly, but "mount" gives nothing for /mnt/cflinux ...!!! More, the command "df" does not know /mnt/cflinux, even if I can still list it with "ls".

# ipkg -d /mnt/cflinux install (package.you.want.to.install)
Install both kde packages this way (libs and base)
  -> ipkg tried, and totally unsuccessful...
  When I execute this command, I have :
    "ERROR File not found: /usr/lib/ipkg/lists/cacko-unstable
                  You probably want to run 'ipkg update'
      Installing pcre... Done
      *** Command : add
      *** Locating package
      package "pcre" not found on external storages"
      For this test, i am in the /home/root dir, and the  pcre*.ipk is in it also.
      I've tested this from the root of /mnt/cflinux, but with no more success.

Check the output.
If i installs OK, startx (the default window manager)
In an aterm : "startkde", wait.
  ... Still far from that !!!

If kde starts OK, quit it again, quit matchbox, then do the ln -s trick on the .xinitrc-file.
(it is explained in the thread pgas mentioned). Or better : modify it so you have the choice between matchbox and kde (and a lot of others if you like). (this is also explained in the thread pgas mentioned)

Chero.
*


So, I'm stuck ...

Would you know a way to go ahead ?

Thank's by advance,

Micla
Chero
QUOTE(Micla @ Jul 19 2005, 02:55 PM)
If you are, try reinstalling using "ipkg":
   I've tried "however" ...:
   But it appear that I have pbs with my compact flash card.  I cannot have it mounted automatically at startup.
   Breaking news : at the second where I write this, I make a last test, and I find that "ls /mnt/cflinux" runs perfectly, but "mount" gives nothing for /mnt/cflinux ...!!! More, the command "df" does not know /mnt/cflinux, even if I can still list it with "ls".

# ipkg -d /mnt/cflinux install (package.you.want.to.install)
Install both kde packages this way (libs and base)
   -> ipkg tried, and totally unsuccessful...
   When I execute this command, I have :
     "ERROR File not found: /usr/lib/ipkg/lists/cacko-unstable
                  You probably want to run 'ipkg update'
      Installing pcre... Done
      *** Command : add
      *** Locating package
      package "pcre" not found on external storages"
      For this test, i am in the /home/root dir, and the  pcre*.ipk is in it also.
      I've tested this from the root of /mnt/cflinux, but with no more success.


about the size :
- there is an ipk around somewhere that does show the size
- I'll check the size of the packages (after installing)

about df not working for /mnt/cflinux :
- are you sure you installed to cf, or did you install to /mnt/cflinux (which is a common dir if nothing is mounted to it - ls will work then).
- what does df show ?

about mounting at startup :
- search the forum for "partitioning SD". There is a thread where is explained what to do.
- to mount it manually, I think the command is "mount /dev/hda2 /mnt/cflinux" (/mnt/cflinux must exist)

about installing :
- did you replace (package.you.want.to.install) with the correct names ?

Chero
Micla
QUOTE(Chero @ Jul 24 2005, 11:46 AM)
1) about the size :
- there is an ipk around somewhere that does show the size
- I'll check the size of the packages (after installing)

2) about df not working for /mnt/cflinux :
- are you sure you installed to cf, or did you install to /mnt/cflinux (which is a common dir if nothing is mounted to it - ls will work then).
- what does df show ?

3) about mounting at startup :
- search the forum for "partitioning SD". There is a thread where is explained what to do.
- to mount it manually, I think the command is "mount /dev/hda2 /mnt/cflinux" (/mnt/cflinux must exist)

4) about installing :
- did you replace (package.you.want.to.install) with the correct names ?

Chero
*


1) After "manual mounting, i've got :
- df on /mnt/cf : 324392 k-bytes (my FAT partition)
- df on /mnt/cflinux : 170339 k-bytes (ext2)

2) I've no longer observed this phenomenon : "ls" working and "df" non working. Now, both of them run fine.

3) Despite a dedicated line into /etc/fstab, my partition /mnt/cflinux is still not automatically mounted (line = /dev/hda2<TAB>/mnt/cflinux<TAB>auto<TAB>noauto,owner, as well as for /dev/hda1 which mounts perfectly and automatically as /mnt/cf).
The thread about "partitionning SD" speaks all along about the file /etc/sdcontrol. But I'm not SD, I'm CF ...! and I've found nothing like /etc/cfcontrol.

I think that there is also a CF access pb due to the fact that I go in the USB system tool, and select the Disk choice, precisely on the CF device (which gives access to /mnt/cf). Then, my Z + its CF acts as a USB key. But I have observed some dysfunctionning after such uses ...

4) about installing : Yes ...! I've perfectly taken the correct name ...! :-))))
Each ipkg command gives me error like :
# ipkg -d /mt/cflinux install /mnt/cf/kdebase* <RETURN>
ERROR: File not found: /usr/lib/ipkg/lists/cacko-unstable
You probably want to run `ipkg update'
Installing kdebase...[AND HERE, AFTER A LOOOONG TIME:]Done.
*** Command: add
*** Locating package
Package "kdebase" not found on external storages.
#

. One thing surprising inside that is that it begins with an error message (till ... update').
. Then the line "Installing ..... Done." seems to indicate that something has correctly run.
. And then a second error message ("...not found ...") which seems desesperate for this way of installing.

5) Of course, KDE fails to start normally, without surprise after all that :
a. If I start the normal WM, and then type "startkde" in an aterm, I have : startkde : not found".
b. If I try a "ls /usr/lib", I have a long listing, but "ls /usr/lib/kde" gives "ls ... no such file or directoy".
c. But "ln -sf /usr/lib/kde/bin/startkde ~/.xinitrc" gave no comment, and "startx" has started something strange : I have had 3 great "term" windows opened, no task bar, nothing graphic, and hopefully, typing exit, all has shut and i could come back to the normal command-line. I made "rm ~/.xinitrc", reput the original one which I had copied as .xinitrc_old, and now my "normal" WM starts again. It's an adventure ...!!!

6) I've found (but I don't re-find where) that I also had to install : libxml2, libxslt, libart, pcre, qt-mt, and I've added kdepim qt-headers because it sounded respectively interesting & reasonnable ...

7) And for the end : ... Do you have sense of humour ...? I've been said on an other side that "XFCE" would be preferable to KDE which asks too much processor-power and is too complex for a machine like the Zaurus. And ... I see that you use XFCE ...? What do you think about the compared installation and uses of KDE & XFCE ?

TIA for all helpers, and 1st of all for all readers ...!
Chero
@ Micla,

About installing KDE :
As far as I understand ipkg, it installs all the files on your cf, but can't locate them to create the required symlinks in root.
Maybe I missed something and you have to add a location to ipkg first, before you can install to /mnt/cflinux. I only installed to root and to SD so far.
Maybe somebody else can tell us?

You could add the some locations to your path (/mnt/cflinux/bin, ...). A mirror of the locations that are already in your path. Maybe this could make it work.
I could send you a modified copy of my /etc/profile, just for testing, I'm not sure it will work, but as it is an adventure ...

The extra's you installed :
- qt-mt, qt-headers : I believe these are for developing purpose only. If you're not going to compile on your Z, you don't really need them
- kdepim : comes installed when you flash (kopi, kapi, ...). There are different versions. Before you install a new one, I recommend you uninstall the older one. Check using package manager.
- the other ones are required by several packages, so they won't hurt.

KDE versus XFCE :
I can't tell which one is best. It all depends on what you want/like. It's good to have a choice. (KDE, ICE, XFCE, FVWM, MATCHBOX, ...).
I can only tell you that I like xfce4 more, 'cause it is a lot faster than KDE. But I also like the feeling of having a machine in my pocket that can run KDE.
I use xfce4 for daily use, KDE for fun every now and then.
I can't suspend my Z when running kde. I suppose it has something to to with a swap/cache file kde creates and can't re-open after suspends. I had the same problem when I was running KDE-apps from a debian chroot. I don't know if someone else can resume after a long suspend when using KDE.
It's up to you to figure out what you like most.

For discussions on xfce4 :
....xfce4, last version : thread when I compiled it, comments from testers.
xfce finetuning : recent thread (nice screenshots of the menu).
xfce4-files : the files (the base package is in /SD).

Have fun,
Chero.
Micla
QUOTE(Chero @ Jul 26 2005, 10:23 AM)
.../...
For discussions on xfce4 :
....xfce4, last version : thread when I compiled it, comments from testers.
xfce finetuning : recent thread (nice screenshots of the menu).
xfce4-files : the files (the base package is in /SD).

Have fun,
Chero.
*


Oops ... I'm impressed by all the litterature about XFCE ...!

So, ... "Chero" is a hidden contraction of "Cheered Hero" ...?

Reading all that, I have to admit that I'm not so "specialized" as all these guys who discuss of a lot of things, without never saying what it is. I surely need more "basic" explanation. This is probably also a comment justified for other open source developments ...

So, in my situation, if I only make the same "ipkg" commands with "uninstall", my KDE will be removed ?

And to install XFCE, is it sufficient to make the same "ipkg -d ... install ..." for all the ".ipk" files in "http://zaurus.spy.org/feeds/cacko/pdaXrom/1.1.0/rc10/chero/" ?

(For the moment beeing, the only files which I feel able to install properly are the ".jpg" :=O)

Sorry to come back to very basic things ...

And thank's for all these comments already. I will surely come back on the KDE problem later, but I will first og to the simplest and more efficient tool that can replace it.

... 'soon require the URL to enlist in your XFCE fan club !!!

Micla.
Chero
QUOTE(Micla @ Jul 27 2005, 09:22 AM)
... So, in my situation, if I only make the same "ipkg" commands with "uninstall", my KDE will be removed ?
....

Micla.
*


Not sure, the install didn't finish as it should, so it could be that ipkg doesn't know the package is there.

I suggest you use "package manager".
In case you the package isn't listed as installed, you can only manually remove the files of your cflinux. If you don't have too many packages installed there, you'd better remove all files on cflinus and start again.


About xfce4 : Don't want to answer it here, it's a thread about KDE, check your PM

Chero.
maxg
Just want to say your package of KDE is a reakky great stuff, although there only lacks a very little bit of speed and ram for it to be usable. XFCE is much lighter (well, you can make little scripts to start either KDE or XFCE, just by renaming the .xinitrc and run startx) but, **EDIT you may consider compiling it yourself **, my compiled version is somehow faster and more up to date ** EDIT this is the CVS version with selected components **, and since it compiled just fine (ok, it takes quite some time to make, but anyway) you just have to pickup the source on xfce.org CVS and make the parts you want.
Chero
QUOTE(maxg @ Jul 27 2005, 07:35 PM)
Just want to say your package of KDE is a reakky great stuff, although there only lacks a very little bit of speed and ram for it to be usable. XFCE is much lighter (well, you can make little scripts to start either KDE or XFCE, just by renaming the .xinitrc and run startx) but I STRONGLY advice you compile it yourself, my compiled version is somehow faster and more up to date, and since it compile just fine (ok, it takes quite some time to make, but anyway) you just have to pickup the source on xfce.org and make the parts you want.
*


The kde-packages are provided by the pdaXrom-team, all credits go to those great guys.

(again talking about xfce in a thread about something else, sorry but I just need to answer this unsure.gif )
About xfce :
- The packages I provided a link to in post 17 are compiled on the Z, with the same compiler you are using .
- The latest released version of the source on the xfce-site is 4.2.2, which is the version used to create those packages
So I don't think there is any need to recompile this (unless you have a lot of free space and you really like doing it yourself) and there is absolutely no need for a strong advice to other users to do the same.

I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but I really needed to answer this. I believe people should better put their time in new things and then share them with others instead of doing the same over and over again. Only that way the list of available packages for pdaX will keep on growing.

Sorry for this intervention,
Chero.
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