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guylhem
Hello

I was wrong with my previous chip recommandation. What's needed is k9k1g08uoa. I'm now trying to get my hands on one.

Regarding the bluetooth speed, I'm working on a solution. Don't hold your breath however, it may take a while

Since the RAM also comes from samsung, I may be tempted to upgrade it (k4s561633f) to do everything at once.

Guylhem
guylhem
k9k1g08uoa is EOL, K9K1G08UOB has a 6 months backorder and is stricly impossible to find anywhere.

Ouch.
coolass
QUOTE(guylhem @ Oct 13 2005, 05:09 AM)
k9k1g08uoa is EOL, K9K1G08UOB has a 6 months backorder and is stricly impossible to find anywhere.

Ouch.
*

Has anyone tried looking at the chips inside other electronics such as; cable boxes,old corldless phones,tapeless answering machines,old dish network boxes. All of these have flash memory chip inside, also old cable/dsl modems and mother boards. cool.gif
the_oak
Does anyone know which devices are known to have these chips? I (and probably others here) would be willing to check my tech trashbin if I knew which devices to disassemble to find the chips. Or is this just a "take it apart and see" thing?

Edit: Is this an old chipset or something recent? How old of a device should we check?
Tom61
Just a note, SmartMedia and XD Picture cards are just NAND flash chips in a package. Though, they're not as easy to intergrate in a device, they can be found virtually anywhere where digital cameras are sold. Also, most thumbdrives have a NAND flash chip inside.

Reference:
http://elm-chan.org/docs/sm_e.html
http://www.linux-hacker.net/cgi-bin/UltraB...Page=0&Session=

Also, you may need to do some kernel and/or bootloader hacking, as NAND chips beyond 64MB require more read cycles than a 16MB chip would.
guylhem
Hello

Found a seller in the US having them in stock but requiring a minimal $300 purchase. That could certainly get us *lots* of flash + ram chips. Anyone feels like managing a group purchase? PM me for the seller phonenumber and other details. We should contact him when there's at least 10 of us IMHO, giving a price of $30/person for RAM + Flash upgrade. Remaining chips could be resold to other Z owners (say C760) with NAND problems. This is the only part in a Zaurus that "aging" (limited write cycles). If we can manage to replace it, the Zaurus will be hard to kill.

Tom61, you're right it could require additional hardware or software hacks. The good news is someone here with a 6000D provided me with scans of his motherboard :-) I'll provide him a custom version of the Guylhem ROM for the 6000D/128Mb of flash.

Moreover, the NAND ids are hardcoded in the bootloader (I've checked!) which lets me suppose it will simply recognize them once they're soldered. In the worst case, there's always JTAG, and bootloaders are a dime a dozen.

The other good news is I've been offered a dead 6000L to practice on. This time I'm much closer than the last time to do it. I've the *exact* chip reference, a seller, a scan of the motherboard and practice material.

Guylhem
coolass
Samsung might be a good place to check for memory since they are in hot water with the FCC about their price fixing for their chips. Also a law suit is soon to follow so they might have great prices now. cool.gif
guylhem
Someone is selling. These chips are in high demand. What's needed is 10 persons willing to spend $30 for what could possiblity upgrade their Zauruses (no promises !) + one to dispatch the chips when they arrive.

If you are interested, act !
speculatrix
QUOTE(guylhem @ Oct 14 2005, 08:42 PM)
Someone is selling. These chips are in high demand. What's needed is 10 persons willing to spend $30 for what could possiblity upgrade their Zauruses (no promises !) + one to dispatch the chips when they arrive.

If you are interested, act !
*


I am due to receive a 6000L any day now, so count me in!

Paul
p.s. why can't we make it 256MB of flash instead of only a measly 128??
albertr
I have K9F1G08U0M, is it compatible?
-albertr
bgsfh
I want to get in on this as well. I'm good for $30.
guylhem
QUOTE(albertr @ Oct 14 2005, 03:05 PM)
I have K9F1G08U0M, is it compatible?
-albertr
*


I wouldn't want to take the risk... soldering will be complicated. K9K1 and K9F1 are also quite different.
guylhem
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Oct 14 2005, 01:56 PM)
p.s. why can't we make it 256MB of flash instead of only a measly 128??


Because the definition of this 128 Mb is hardcoded in the flash, and it is used by the 6000D motherboard, for which I have a nandbackup too- so the odds are it will work fine, while 256 is a bet.

The seller made an offer for $45 per person if there're only 5 of us. We reached that point - I'm interested in waiting no longer. Now we need somebody in the US who can collect the money, send it to the seller, receive the chips and send the chips to each one of us.

Who wants to do that? I would if I were there- but I'm in France, and the seller like most of you is in the US. It will kill in postage expanses.

Guylhem
speculatrix
QUOTE(guylhem @ Oct 15 2005, 02:00 PM)
The seller made an offer for $45 per person if there're only 5 of us. We reached that point - I'm interested in waiting no longer. Now we need somebody in the US who can collect the money, send it to the seller, receive the chips and send the chips to each one of us.

Who wants to do that? I would if I were there- but I'm in France, and the seller like most of you is in the US. It will kill in postage expanses.
*


I presume the seller won't accept any form of credit card then?

I don't know if it helps, but have a multi-currency bank account, and I can write cheques in US$. I've got a very distant cousin in the USA who's probably be willing to be a drop-box (i.e. I pay the seller who sends them to cousin who'd ship them to me).

Surely, though, there's some 6000 owners in USA who could help, I'd be willing to put in extra to make it worth their while in beer vouchers!
speculatrix
QUOTE(guylhem @ Oct 13 2005, 09:15 AM)
Since the RAM also comes from samsung, I may be tempted to upgrade it (k4s561633f) to do everything at once.
*


I'm definitely up for that too - have you a source of these RAM chips as well?

I'd want to max out my flash, ram *and* add bluetooth too.

Yeah, I want the moon on a stick, yesterday!!!
bgsfh
I am in New York City, USA. I would be willing to get the chips from the supplier and ship them out to people. I would have to find out the best way to ship chips internationally.
speculatrix
QUOTE(bgsfh @ Oct 17 2005, 06:13 PM)
I am in New York City, USA.  I would be willing to get the chips from the supplier and ship them out to people.  I would have to find out the best way to ship chips internationally.
*


USPS will quite happily post things to the world for you... the items are quite small and will fit in padded envelopes.

It might be cheaper to deal with just one or two people in UK/Europe who will get cheaper posting within the EU area.

I'm sure everyone will agree with me that we will ensure you are not left out of pocket.
guylhem
Hello

I'm personally taking 3 for 2 good friends who what the same modification done.

bgsfh, I'm emailing you the seller details, along with the chips we need. Everybody here who wants one should contact bgsfh.

As soon as I get my chip, I'll solder it and report results. But anyone can do the same :-) It just requires finding an electronic shop which can solder such tiny contacts.

Guylhem
adf
any plans to increase the ram while you are in there?

at any rate... awaiting the details
aeazocar
Hi, I am also interested in the memory expansion for the 6000.

I got my 6000l few moths back, and I will like to make the most of it.
Could you please count me in in the purchase, and if there is any way I can help let me know.

I leave in Houston, TX.
Regards.

Alejandro
aki
bgsfh, count me in for (1) chip please!
Let me know how/when to get you the $$
the_oak
Is this something that a person with mediocre soldering skills could do? Is special soldering gear needed? And most important of all, will the Guylhem rom support these changes?
guylhem
You bet I'll support the changes :-) I'm totally interested in doing such a change!

Guylhem
the_oak
What about the required soldering skills? Pro only? or could person with ordinary skills do this?
Tom61
QUOTE(the_oak @ Oct 24 2005, 09:34 PM)
What about the required soldering skills? Pro only? or could person with ordinary skills do this?
*


You'd need SMT soldering skills for the NAND upgrade, IIRC.

RAM is Pro only (BGA).
craigtyson
QUOTE(guylhem @ Oct 17 2005, 11:24 PM)
Hello

I'm personally taking 3 for 2 good friends who what the same modification done.

bgsfh, I'm emailing you the seller details, along with the chips we need. Everybody here who wants one should contact bgsfh.

As soon as I get my chip, I'll solder it and report results. But anyone can do the same :-) It just requires finding an electronic shop which can solder such tiny contacts.

Guylhem
*


Try a university electronics shop/technical college. most electronics / tv repair / pc repair places wont have surface mount equipment. although some specialist development companies would. ie your more likely to find the tools at a microelectronic engineering company not a radio shak.
guylhem
bsgh, do you have any news?
neuroshock
I'm in for 2. Just let me know how/where to send the money. (I'm one of the US crowd btw)
loc4me
If these chips have not been ordered yet, count me in for 1. Also let me know when to send the money.

-Mark
dirk
bsgh, did you placed the order? If not, count me in for one chip.


Dirk
guylhem
Hello

bsgh, I think there're enough of us now for the order. Do you want to start collecting the money?

The Flash chip is: k9k1g08uoa - we need at least one each. If it's not expansive, we could get 2 for each of us to give one more chance if the soldering process fails.

If you can also use this opportunity to get them, the Ram chip is K4S561633F - we need two each to go to 128 Mb of RAM. We also will need a "A106" that's next to the ram chip on the motherboard- no idea what it could be. Looks like a capacitor or a diode IMHO. Will figure it out later. If it doesn't work, I don't think the Ram chips will be reusable in other Zauruses. But it's worth trying to upgrade the 6000 anyway. Doubling the Ram and the Flash would make it quite a beast :-)

Anyway, let's go for the flash update first. The Ram upgrade will be attempted afterwards - just get the Flash chips, and ask about Ram chips.

Guylhem
the_oak
Is it possible/feasible to fabricate and solder on a chip socket of some sort? Then upgrading the memory chip would be very simple. If the socket is hollow on the bottom, it would seem that it would be easier to solder too. The idea for this came from an old motherboard manual for a Packard Bell PB650. The video on the motherboard could be upgraded by simply obtaining the appropriate memory chips and sticking them in the socket.

Socket looks like this:
video memory socket
guylhem
possible, yes, better - yes it could be much much simpler (devel boards use smartmedia cards- if you want another distro, just swap the card)

Will it fit in the box- that's the first question. Will we find the parts we need? I still have no news about the 128 Mb chips. I don't think I'll have them soon. It could delay the process even further.

If you can find parts to do that, you're very welcome. Else I'd suggest we stick to the plan, or we risk dispersion.
bsaunder2002
aiSome random ideas...
SL-5000 and 5500 are similar, dump the 5500(BGA ram I know I've seen mine), use a 5000(SMT ram) and upgrade the RAM from 32mb to 128mb by removing the 32mb's or maybe 32mb to 96mb by piggybacking the originals with larger ones.

For the BGA people(SL-5500, C-xxxx) - How about destroying the existing ram as you remove the BGA chips, making a BGA to smt shim, then soldering wires or SMT chips to the shim. The reason this might be doable, is that my guess is that chip sacrificial removal of the BGA is easier than trying to save it but you'd still be left with the BGA soldering of the shim. After the shim is soldered you'd be able to solder/remove the SMT without damaging the main board. Ie another layer to dissipate heat. Only one risky operation...

Now the 64,000 dollar question.
Why doesn't anyone sell a PDA with more memory? They all max out at 64mb. I know that WinCE does XIP - execute in place. That's where the program can actually run directly from the flash. That gives WinCE a much larger pool of memory for running programs(ie theoretically only heap and stack are in RAM, the rest stays in flash). Linux on the other hand doesn't do XIP(ok so it's being added to 2.6 but it aint there yet). It loads the program code into RAM first before executing.

So we're left with the assumption, more RAM = less battery life. PDA's for average users are all about battery life.

BUT sharp users aren't "average" users. WHY DOESNT SHARP REALIZE 128MB is WORLDS BETTER THAN 64mb.

Sorry about the shouting just dreamed they might actually hear it...
Bill
Tom61
QUOTE
Why doesn't anyone sell a PDA with more memory? They all max out at 64mb.


You mean like 128MB? The Fujitsu/Loox 720, Toshiba e800 and e850, TapWave Zodiac 2, just to name a few, all have 128MB of RAM. 128MB ROM is quickly becomming standard on the newer WM5 PPCs for persistant storage (I.E. no data loss by running the batteries completely dry), and a few Palm models have that much flash ROM for persistant storage as well.
bgsfh
Update

I sent an email message to the vender on 11/17/05. I received no response. I am sending another email today.
bgsfh
I received a response from the chip supplier. He is working on getting the chips for the flash memory and the ram memory. I will let everyone know what happens as soon as I hear something.
bgsfh
I have received a quote of USD $20 per chip with a minimum order of 10 for referb flash chips part number K9K1G08UOM-YCBO.

I also got a quote of USD $20 per chip with a minimum order of 12 for new ram chips part number K4S561633F-XN75.

Anyone with an interest in these chips please post to this thread or PM me. Thank you.
DrWowe
Just to be clear, it takes 2 of these flash chips, so $40 to perform a 128mb flash upgrade to an SL-6000. Is that right?
speculatrix
QUOTE(bgsfh @ Dec 14 2005, 10:15 PM)
I have received a quote of USD $20 per chip with a minimum order of 10 for referb flash chips part number K9K1G08UOM-YCBO. 

I also got a quote of USD $20 per chip with a minimum order of 12 for new ram chips part number K4S561633F-XN75. 

Anyone with an interest in these chips please post to this thread or PM me.  Thank you.
*


I'm still interested - one of the K9, and two of the K4.

What do they mean by "refurb"? Are they devices which have simply been bought back as excess stock, but are they tested (can't afford to install them and find they're faulty).

Thanks for your efforts in this.

I would guess that to save postage and make life easy, we in the UK/Europe would block buy from you and redistribute ourselves.

Paul
speculatrix
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 15 2005, 01:55 AM)
Just to be clear, it takes 2 of these flash chips, so $40 to perform a 128mb flash upgrade to an SL-6000.  Is that right?
*


No, Dr, the K9 is a flash chip, so you need 1. The K4 is a DRAM chip, and you'd add two.
DrWowe
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Dec 15 2005, 05:18 PM)
No, Dr, the K9 is a flash chip, so you need 1. The K4 is a DRAM chip, and you'd add two.
*


I was asking because there are traces and contacts for 4 flash chips on the 6000 motherboard. Except for the 6000D, two of them are unsoldered. That would mean there are 32 megs on each chip.

Would it work soldering in just one more chip and having 3 total?

Or did I get something wrong about 6000 layout?
guylhem
QUOTE(bgsfh @ Dec 14 2005, 01:15 PM)
I have received a quote of USD $20 per chip with a minimum order of 10 for referb flash chips part number K9K1G08UOM-YCBO. 

I also got a quote of USD $20 per chip with a minimum order of 12 for new ram chips part number K4S561633F-XN75. 

Anyone with an interest in these chips please post to this thread or PM me.  Thank you.
*


Hello

IIRC we need uoa

k9k1g08uoa is different from uom - I can't guarantee anything with uom. Did you use my contact for the uoa one ? uoa is hard to find. uom is not too difficult.

Guylhem
Zdave
I asked a local lab if they could do the surface mount work for me and they said yes! They then asked me for the part numbers, so I gave them K9K1G08UOA and K4S561633F. They did not have
any in stock. They said their supplier has them in stock, but there are 12 units to a sleeve. They quoted me $20 USD each for flash and ram chips.

Has anyone ordered any replacement flash or ram chips for the SL-6000 yet? If yes, can I still get any? If not, I am willing to put a group buy together so I can get the parts I need.
speculatrix
QUOTE(Zdave @ Dec 22 2005, 03:12 PM)
I asked a local lab if they could do the surface mount work for me and they said yes!  They then asked me for the part numbers, so I gave them K9K1G08UOA and K4S561633F.  They did not have
any in stock.  They said their supplier has them in stock, but there are 12 units to a sleeve.  They quoted me $20 USD each for flash and ram chips.     

Has anyone ordered any replacement flash or ram chips for the SL-6000 yet?  If yes, can I still get any?  If not, I am willing to put a group buy together so I can get the parts I need.
*


Hi ZDave,
I'm sorry that people are so lax in getting back to you. If people are agreed, since you have found a supplier and "bgsfh" is having problems, we should take you up on your kind offer of help.

So you need 12 people to commit to buying flash upgrades, and six for DRAM, given you need one of the former and two of the latter.

I will commit to having one of the K9 flash chips, and two of the K4 DRAM chips, which completes the upgrade; gives a total of US$60 for the chips, and I will pay the going rate for shipping to the UK, plus some beer money for all your efforts.

thanks for all you time and patience!

Paul
jbbrs
I am interested, but I haven't been able to find a place where they would do the surface mount soldering work for me. I won't risk buying the chips and having them end up like a bluetooth module I bought for the simpad...

Maybe if we could set up a "upgrade facility" for our c1000s... smile.gif
jblanchard
Hi there,

Just wondering if this effort to find chips has died. If not, does anyone know if the flash chip will also work in the cxx0 line? I have a brick because of faulty NAND and have nothing to lose in trying to fix it!
guylhem
Hello

It should totally work with C7xxx and SL6000. In fact, I'll soon give that a try.

Meanwhile, the effort is stopped due to the lack if chips. If they could be found, I'm ready to try - especially since I'll soon get a BGA reworking station :-)

Guylhem
jblanchard
I'm not totally up on chip part numbering, but there seem to be a number of things that come up from a googling of "k9k1g08uoa" but with suffixes (K9K1G08UOA-FIBO, K9K1G08UOA-VIB0T, etc.)

Are these all the same chip we're looking for?
guylhem
It's been a while. I suggest you look at the reference files and compare them to the chip we know to work (hint - see dismantled zaurus pics).

My understanding is as long as the prefix is identical, it will work. I'm willing to commit a machine to the test. Now I need chips.

Guylhem
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