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DrWowe
It would be nice to have some contacts who be willing to do various Z mods for a fee. Maybe Streamline or Trisoft could partner with someone and offer customized versions. Of course, the price would be high, but at least they could be "supported" to an extent.

What I do know is that:
1) I don't know anything about doing it myself.
2) I would easily buy a C3100 that had wifi and bluetooth soldered in, and I'm willing to pay enough to make it worthwhile.
guylhem
Hello

I'd like to see the creation of a software and hardware "modding industry" for linux handhelds - like soldering stuff, but also paying for missing software (say - video accel on the 6000 - I'd gladly give 100 eur to whoever could make a reliable video accel to play sdl games at full framerate and mpeg4 video at 640x480 full screen)

Yet I'm highly doubtful of the capability and the will to support such stuff. I remember *paying* for iqnotes and zknights, because they were worth supporting the authors. But I've seen it is very uncommon for a free software to raise enough money to become self sustainable - especially in the handheld world:-/

Guylhem
DrWowe
Yes, but there is a difference.

Software requires expertise, but it's easier to learn. Hardware requires expertise, AND expensive equipment, and gaining the expertise also requires the equipment.

There are many fewer people who are capable of doing hardware than software, so I see it as a bigger bottleneck.

(Of course, it's all relative, because there aren't really enough interested software ppl either. smile.gif )
jerrybme
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 2 2005, 05:22 PM)
It would be nice to have some contacts who be willing to do various Z mods for a fee.  Maybe Streamline or Trisoft could partner with someone and offer customized versions.  Of course, the price would be high, but at least they could be "supported" to an extent.

What I do know is that:
1) I don't know anything about doing it myself.
2) I would easily buy a C3100 that had wifi and bluetooth soldered in, and I'm willing to pay enough to make it worthwhile.
*

I'd second the notion of a 3100 with wifi soldered in tongue.gif I've been holding off upgrading to the 3100, in hopes that perhaps Sharp will finally add WiFi to the next version (if there is one) Aren't the Japanese Zaurus users tired of swapping out CF cards every time they want to use their Z to surf the net?

I'd be willing to pay for a 3100 with wifi (hope my wife doesn't see this post) wink.gif

Cheers
Tom61
Would you be interested in inviduals doing these modifications? Internal WiFi and bluetooth should be well within my abilities.

What kind of warranty would you require? Beyond non-Dead on Arrival would likely be costly.
adf
O...crap. I just convinced myself I wasn't interested in the clamshells and ordered a microdrive for the 6000. a 3100 w/ wireless would rock.

what would be your price for
a). wireless
cool.gif. wireless AND bt
c) swapping the 4 gig hitachi out and popping my (new) 6 gig in?

pm me if you prefer
speculatrix
QUOTE(Tom61 @ Dec 3 2005, 02:18 AM)
Would you be interested in inviduals doing these modifications? Internal WiFi and bluetooth should be well within my abilities.

What kind of warranty would you require? Beyond non-Dead on Arrival would likely be costly.
*


There is a company who do Palm upgrades, who I think make a reasonable success of it.. but they're not cheap!

I think that if you had a track record, then people would be willing to accept a limited warranty that it:
- wouldn't break their Z
- the new feature would work for X months
- you'd repair the new feature at cost prices if it went wrong
- you'd repair the Z, now out of warranty, at cost within Y months
DrWowe
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Dec 2 2005, 08:17 PM)
I think that if you had a track record, then people would be willing to accept a limited warranty that it:
- wouldn't break their Z
- the new feature would work for X months
- you'd repair the new feature at cost prices if it went wrong
- you'd repair the Z, now out of warranty, at cost within Y months


That sounds about right to me too. The only real risk taken by the modder is in the "don't break the Z" part ... it would become unprofitable only if you screwed up a lot of machines.

An alternate business model is to sell pre-modded units. Then you don't risk messing up anyone's "baby". Since I don't have a 3100, either way would be fine for me. smile.gif
waalkman
QUOTE(jerrybme @ Dec 2 2005, 04:49 PM)
Aren't the Japanese Zaurus users tired of swapping out CF cards every time they want to use their Z to surf the net?
*



From what I've heard, the Japanese don't use WiFi much at all (if any).


As for mods, the Newton community has done this for years (and still does!)

Maybe partner up with a company like J&K Sales (I have no affiliation with these folks, I'm just using them as an example).

http://www.jksalesinc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=27
Mjolinor
I'll probably live to regret this.

If there are mods that someone wants doing then subject to the following I will have a go.

You provide all the parts
You provide the motherboard on which the parts need fitting
Nothing in a square package with legs on each side unless its only 20 or so pins, no BGAs, DIL are OK
Specific instructions
Your risk
Preferably UK only
I won't do hundreds of anything, I don't have time

Explanations.
Anything in a square package I have difficulty with because normally the soldered joints are too far underneath for me to see the soldered joints under my microscope, I have never succesfully changed a BGA of any sort. I am really only offering this as a means to proving the mods.

Mods like the 6000 Bluetooth look to me to be really straightforward whether by flying lead or by original component fitting.

I've no idea about Bluetooth or Wifi on a 3100, I've never seen a 3100. I own a 6000, a 5500 and I just bought a C860. The latter purely for the purpose of ripping to bits and messing. I bought the 6000 for that but it proved too much of an addictive article and I don't want to dismantle it.

I do a lot of laptop repair for a couple of local shops. This I only do out of interest and because Joe public is knackered if his laptop goes faulty and they have very few places to go , I certainly don't do it to make money though it does keep me up to date with a reasonable laptop. I have a full time job that provides income.

If there is anything specific that someone wants to try then I won't charge anything provided the return postage is not much otherwise I'd like the postage back but as I say this is not me trying to set a business up, I don't want that, it's me trying to assist where people can't do it themselves.

If your close to Burnley (25 miles North of Manchester) then you can always pop over and we can do it together.
Tom61
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 3 2005, 02:43 AM)
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Dec 2 2005, 08:17 PM)
I think that if you had a track record, then people would be willing to accept a limited warranty that it:
- wouldn't break their Z
- the new feature would work for X months
- you'd repair the new feature at cost prices if it went wrong
- you'd repair the Z, now out of warranty, at cost within Y months


That sounds about right to me too. The only real risk taken by the modder is in the "don't break the Z" part ... it would become unprofitable only if you screwed up a lot of machines.

An alternate business model is to sell pre-modded units. Then you don't risk messing up anyone's "baby". Since I don't have a 3100, either way would be fine for me. :)
*




Hmm... selling a pre-modded 3100 would be a fairly good way to get started. I might just buy a 3100 once my student loans come in, mod it, then sell it on eBay. That would help me get a track record started, as well as get an idea of what to charge. All without the risk of messing up anyone's "baby".

The warranty terms you're looking for wouldn't be too bad. Non-DOA and 6 months repair at cost would be quite doable.

I'll likely be trying out some EE classes this semester, so I might be able to have access to equipment to do more advanced mods. If not, simple things like Wifi, bluetooth, and HD swap-out are still doable by me.

I'm located in the US, BTW.
adf
hmmm. So far, so good. wifi bt and 6 gb in one fell swoop is really appealing. I haven't bought a 31C yet, but the prices are getting good.... and whether I do buy one pretty much depends on whether we can agree to mods, prices, and expectations.
One way to look at this would be for you to buy one (at pricejapan prices... no point in buying, then voiding a warranty) mod it and sell it to one of us by prearrangement..
Given @$550 for the base unit, what woud you expect to see in return for the finished product? (in my case, I'd have to send you my 6 gig from here, as it is already en route)
I'm definitely interested.
ADF
speculatrix
QUOTE(adf @ Dec 4 2005, 02:06 AM)
wifi bt and 6 gb in one fell swoop is really appealing. I haven't bought a 31C yet, but the prices are getting good.... and whether I do buy one pretty much depends on whether we can agree to mods, prices, and expectations.
One way to look at this would be for you to buy one (at pricejapan prices... no point in buying, then voiding a warranty) mod it and sell it to one of us by prearrangement..
*


Me too! I'm in the UK, so this present the snag of an extra load of tax.
guylhem
QUOTE(Mjolinor @ Dec 3 2005, 01:16 AM)
Mods like the 6000 Bluetooth look to me to be really straightforward whether by flying lead or by original component fitting.

I've no idea about Bluetooth or Wifi on a 3100, I've never seen a 3100. I own a 6000, a 5500 and I just bought a C860. The latter purely for the purpose of ripping to bits and messing. I bought the 6000 for that but it proved too much of an addictive article and I don't want to dismantle it.


Swapping a 4gb to a 6gb is a 5 minute hack. Bluetooth is easy - just find a serial port and solder into it. There's one in the 3100 using 3.3V (CMOS) - no big deal, most bt modules can run with either CMOS or TTL. However Wifi on the clamshell is really another story. Basically, you need either a compact flash or a usb port to hook it. You also need a way to turn it on/off - and that without a free gpio won't be easy.

The "easiest" way I can think about is to hook up an internal usb port extender, solder the external usb port to that extender, and the internal wifi usb module to the extender. Then rewire the "Mail" led to a transistor to switch the internal wifi usb module power on or off.

You'll loose a led on the 3100, but this will eat far less power than leaving wifi on at all times. The internal usb port extender could eat some serious power however, and cause problems with mini-b peripherals. (you'll have to check the USB OTG specs)

I think we'd need more informations about the 3100 before thinking about adding wifi.

Guylhem
adf
Hmmm....
wifi can't be run off a serial port? Not enough speed? Software issue?

I realize the drive swap would be simple, and guessed the BT would not be much different from the 6k mod....

If the wifi were to be run from usb:
A: Surely it can be done so that use of the exernal port is not affected (if not, then maybe it isn't such a good idea)
B : Might it be possible to use a "g" capable module ..does the z theoretically support this? It wold be no faster, but might allow access to more networks. Is there an "n" mudule at all.? smile.gif

C: and while we're talking about it... did the screen transplant ever work out? (I'd pass on this personally, as I think it'd be a waste to murder a perfectly good 6000..though If I could find a doner with dead guts and a good screen...)

D: Any ideas on ram or flash (or both) upgrades?

Still, I'm really only interested in a 3100 if I can cram wifi bt and 6g into it, and still have a free cf slot and working usb, etc
guylhem
C - never got any clamshell to test tgat
D - no more news from bgfsh. Still waiting for the chips...
Tom61
QUOTE(guylhem @ Dec 4 2005, 04:42 PM)
QUOTE(Mjolinor @ Dec 3 2005, 01:16 AM)
Mods like the 6000 Bluetooth look to me to be really straightforward whether by flying lead or by original component fitting.

I've no idea about Bluetooth or Wifi on a 3100, I've never seen a 3100. I own a 6000, a 5500 and I just bought a C860. The latter purely for the purpose of ripping to bits and messing. I bought the 6000 for that but it proved too much of an addictive article and I don't want to dismantle it.


Swapping a 4gb to a 6gb is a 5 minute hack. Bluetooth is easy - just find a serial port and solder into it. There's one in the 3100 using 3.3V (CMOS) - no big deal, most bt modules can run with either CMOS or TTL. However Wifi on the clamshell is really another story. Basically, you need either a compact flash or a usb port to hook it. You also need a way to turn it on/off - and that without a free gpio won't be easy.

The "easiest" way I can think about is to hook up an internal usb port extender, solder the external usb port to that extender, and the internal wifi usb module to the extender. Then rewire the "Mail" led to a transistor to switch the internal wifi usb module power on or off.

You'll loose a led on the 3100, but this will eat far less power than leaving wifi on at all times. The internal usb port extender could eat some serious power however, and cause problems with mini-b peripherals. (you'll have to check the USB OTG specs)

I think we'd need more informations about the 3100 before thinking about adding wifi.

Guylhem
*




For wifi and BT, I'd just go with one USB module that has both. Power management is usually built into the module, all you'd need is the software to trigger it, no need to sacrifice GPIOs. I'd likely break contact between the OTG connector and the main board, solder the connections from the motherboard to the Wifi/BT module's hub input, and then connect a likely free USB port from the hub chip (most support four, hopefully so will the chip on the wifi and BT module) to the OTG connector.

Hmm... The client function of the OTG may not work, would that be a problem? devices connected should still work, as if they were going through a hub. I'm guessing most people only use it as a host, and sync using the zaurus connector.

ADF:
The only 802.11g USB module with open-source drivers that I know of is the Zydas ZD1211 chip, which when connected to a USB 1.1 port reverts to doing only 802.11b. sad.gif

For the finished product, does $750 for the upgraded unit (user provided 6GB drive) seem fair, given everything will be working when you recieve or I fix it free, and for 6 months after that I repair at cost anything in the unit that stops working under normal usage? (i.e. you don't drop it in the lake, or crack the screen)

A note: I'd definately like to work on my own unit before commiting to working on someone else's, or even making a definate statement that I'd do the mods to a unit to sell. Also, it'll be a bit before I could order one for myself. Most likely the first unit that I mod will be auctioned off on eBay.
DrWowe
QUOTE(Tom61 @ Dec 4 2005, 03:48 PM)
Hmm... The client function of the OTG may not work, would that be a problem? devices connected should still work, as if they were going through a hub. I'm guessing most people only use it as a host, and sync using the zaurus connector.
No problem for me. I only use host functionality.

QUOTE(Tom61 @ Dec 4 2005, 03:48 PM)
For the finished product, does $750 for the upgraded unit (user provided 6GB drive) seem fair,
Yes, I would pay that. I'm less concerned about the microdrive, I think I could handle that little swap myself.


BTW, Tom, do you have any thoughts about the 6000 flash issue (quick summary is that there are traces on the motherboard to solder in 2 more flash chips, sounds like easy work for someone with micro-soldering ability, more info in the thread)? Supply of the right flash chips seems to be the current hangup.
DrWowe
QUOTE(Tom61 @ Dec 4 2005, 03:48 PM)
ADF:
The only 802.11g USB module with open-source drivers that I know of is the Zydas ZD1211 chip, which when connected to a USB 1.1 port reverts to doing only 802.11b. sad.gif


To add to this, USB 1.1 = 12 megabit. 802.11b = 11 megabit. There's no point in going higher.
adf
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 5 2005, 01:06 AM)
QUOTE(Tom61 @ Dec 4 2005, 03:48 PM)
ADF:
The only 802.11g USB module with open-source drivers that I know of is the Zydas ZD1211 chip, which when connected to a USB 1.1 port reverts to doing only 802.11b. sad.gif


To add to this, USB 1.1 = 12 megabit. 802.11b = 11 megabit. There's no point in going higher.
*


encryption. there are nets that require "g" protocols... I realize you wouldn't get the speed, and I personally have no need for g ATM. But there were some people here trying to get on G-only networks recently- I thought I'd look at preempting that issue if feasable
adf
approx $200 for initial parts and labor plus warranty? Sounds fair enough.
Of course.... you might have just created a part time career for yourself. tongue.gif
TRIsoft
DrWowe,
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 3 2005, 12:22 AM)
It would be nice to have some contacts who be willing to do various Z mods for a fee.  Maybe Streamline or Trisoft could partner with someone and offer customized versions.  Of course, the price would be high, but at least they could be "supported" to an extent.

the problem is the pricetag.
A modification in any means will need a new test for
CE/FCC conformity. All in all we're talking about roughly
>$2000 for a medium modification here.
This is OK for every new Zaurus model with a large
quantitiy to be sold, but nobody would pay it for a series
of 10 units.

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
Da_Blitz
The internal wifi thing dosent need the extra gpio for power. turning off a device or going into the low power state is part of the USB spec, there is currently work for linux to get it wroking 100%.

as for 802.11G on a usb port, might be handy for those doing the hostap stuff but only for things that are handeled compleatly in the usb card itself (becon frames, admin stuff, probely not wifi towifi comms)
adf
QUOTE(TRIsoft @ Dec 5 2005, 11:11 AM)
DrWowe,
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 3 2005, 12:22 AM)
It would be nice to have some contacts who be willing to do various Z mods for a fee.  Maybe Streamline or Trisoft could partner with someone and offer customized versions.  Of course, the price would be high, but at least they could be "supported" to an extent.

the problem is the pricetag.
A modification in any means will need a new test for
CE/FCC conformity. All in all we're talking about roughly
>$2000 for a medium modification here.
This is OK for every new Zaurus model with a large
quantitiy to be sold, but nobody would pay it for a series
of 10 units.

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
*


Er.. wouldn't the modules themselves already BE ce/fcc compliant? They are when they arrive at the door in their retail bubbles... We are talking simply about physical placement in the device. They would be the same usb devices on the same usb bus that already has approval attached to the same Zaurus you already tested. Do you do a $2000 dollar test for every peripheral you sell in every combination?

edit: I'd really love to get this going soon.
TRIsoft
Hi adf,
QUOTE(adf @ Dec 6 2005, 06:03 PM)
...Er.. wouldn't the modules themselves already BE ce/fcc compliant?
...Do you do a $2000 dollar test for every peripheral you sell in every combination?
*

a lot of people think that the formula
CODE
compliant part + compliant part = compliant device

will work. Unfortunately it won't sad.gif

The CE/FCC tests are made with a "worst case" setup. It's not a secret
to tell you that our last test setup was:
SL-C3100 connected to AC via EA-70S with WiFi card setup and running
while playing a movie and having the CE-RH2 headphone/remote on.

So our CE/FCC compliance is valid only for our devices using these
accessories. For example using a different AC adaptor may void the
compliance easily because some tests are more focused on the
external power than to the machine itself (like spikes on AC line).

If you remove the WiFi card or the headphone from this worst case
scenario, you would still have a compliant setup.
But if you add anything internal to a device you always change the
electromagnetic behaviour. For example you would have to start a
new test if you add an internal bluetooth module.

If this would be easier (and cheaper), there would be more than the
actual three suppliers offering CE/FCC conform Zauris smile.gif

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
jfv
Marc, are you trying to imply that a guy modding a few Zauruses on his garage and selling them privately here or on Ebay is doing something illegal? That's just nuts.

Felipe
Tom61
QUOTE(DrWowe @ Dec 5 2005, 01:02 AM)
BTW, Tom, do you have any thoughts about the 6000 flash issue (quick summary is that there are traces on the motherboard to solder in 2 more flash chips, sounds like easy work for someone with micro-soldering ability, more info in the thread)?  Supply of the right flash chips seems to be the current hangup.
*


The version of the proposed mod where you don't remove the 16MB chip, and just use the empty spot on the motherboard sounds like the easiest one to do. In my thinking, leaving the 16MB chip there would give you more flexibility in what the second chip's capacity could be, as you wouldn't have to modify the bootloader, only the kernel. You'd only need to worry about the physical package of the NAND chip. Adding a SMT chip where there are already traces is fairly easy with the proper tools. You line up the chip, put solder paste across the pins, double check the aligbment of the chip, and then run a stream of hot air across the pins.

QUOTE
approx $200 for initial parts and labor plus warranty? Sounds fair enough.
Of course.... you might have just created a part time career for yourself. tongue.gif


Part time career is fine by me, beats food service while I'm getting my second degree. wink.gif
TRIsoft
Felipe,
QUOTE(jfv @ Dec 6 2005, 08:04 PM)
Marc, are you trying to imply that a guy modding a few Zauruses on his garage and selling them privately here or on Ebay is doing something illegal? That's just nuts.
*

no, i'm not (and that would be totally nuts).
But the topic was started with the idea "partner with Streamline/TRIsoft"
and that's the point of view for me.
All in all it's very simple:
If you import a Zaurus from Japan or if you mod your Zaurus or do
whatever you want for your personal needs, you don't have to obey
the CE/FCC stuff. Same if you do a mod or make batteries for a friend.

But it looks totally different if you do it official with a company.
So please see our postings from this side. We love the community and
we're everyday surprised what people do with their Zauris, but we're
not able to sell a modded model for a reasonable price until it's a 300+
series.

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
adf
so..Tom61... when do you expect to be able to make a "3100w"
speculatrix
QUOTE(guylhem @ Dec 4 2005, 08:24 PM)
C - never got any clamshell to test tgat
D - no more news from bgfsh. Still waiting for the chips...
*


I have PM'd Guylhem because if bgfsh has dropped out, I might be able to help get some chips for the 6000.
Tom61
QUOTE(adf @ Dec 6 2005, 09:18 PM)
so..Tom61... when do you expect to be able to make a "3100w"
*


I plan to order a 3100 not long after my student loans come in, which should be at the start of next semester.
adf
I'm thinking of orderin soon... the prices are getting really good. hope you get the system down quickly. I'll keep my 6k, but I bet Ill hate to ship the clamshell out for the upgrade.
Da_Blitz
Starting to sound like it would just be cheaper to design our own handheld from scratch wink.gif
neuroshock
Yes indeed,

You can count me in on this one too. Your warranty suggestion seems reasonable, price is reasonable, (although after Christmas I'm gonna be cashless for quiiiiite a while!), and the idea as a whole is golden imho. I've got few minor stipulations before I'd make the leap however:

1. As others have expressed, I'm fine with the USB modifications so long as I could use the usb port for external usb Host duties and so long as I'm not limited on the number of external devices I can use on the usb Host at one time. For example I will want to be able to plug a usb self powered hub into the the 3100 using the usb Host Cable, and then plug an external usb keyboard, mouse, and my usb external 2.5" hdd into the usb self powered hub and still have everything work.

2. The second stipulation is that It would need to be accompanied by fully functional working drivers, (installed and available), for the original Sharp ROM, Cacko, AND pdaXrom. My reason for this is I vowed never again to buy a PDA or component that I did not know for SURE would work with whatever the most mainstream ROM choices that are available at the time. One of the reasons I'm a Zaurus owner to begin with is that I can 'tinker' and switch OS's when the urge hits me or as one ROM comes out with a mongo-cool function heretofore unavailable. Being one of the first SL-6000L owners it seemed an unbearable eternity before we could begin to enjoy the benefits of alternate ROM's that everyone else was ooOoooh-ing and aaAaaaah-ing over! Likewise until recently I was the CHAMPION of the "bleeding edge" when it came time to purchase that coooool new (insert any expensive expansion device here) that cost a bazillion dollars only to find out that I would have to wait ANOTHER unbearable eternity for drivers to become available for it. I'm just wore out with risky stuff.

3. Which brings us to stipulation number three. I need to see you successfully alter your first unit, and see at least one person, (preferrably one of the long-time members that are well respected), take the plunge with successful results before I'll get my feet wet on this one. I'm trigger-shy at this point.

If we can get past these things I'd gladly send my $200.00usd along with my brand new C3100 to be endowed with these great gifts of internal devices that communicate with the external world! So get on with it kind sir, and let's get this thing out of theory and into reality! My money awaits you! (or anyone else that can deliver these kind of results!)

I agree with Adf's comment that slaughtering a perfectly good 6000 to scavenge the screen for the "6000 screen in a 3100 clamshell" project would be a horrible thing to do. Rather than killing the idea for the project, I think we should simply try to find vendors for the screen and just buy the screen itself. I've seen several posts around here that point to other devices that use the same screen as the 6000. It should REALLY be looked into.

BECAUSE---> A SL-C3100 with integrated WiFi, Bluetooth, 6gb hdd, and that 4" BEAUUUUUTIFUL screen used in the 6000's all adds up to the PERFECT LINUX PDA device! And just to head off that "it will be so expensive to do all that, that nobody will be willing to pay that much to get it modded..." conversation we always end up having at this point- I DEFINITELY WOULD pay a VERY large amount for the screen upgrade! It would be a notebook/tablet class device in palmtop size and therefore I would be more than willing to pay laptop/notebook prices! I'd sell all my other Zaurii in a heartbeat as well as a few of my children if necessary to pay for it! (j/k about the children part) I think that such a machine as this would be worthy of a pricetag nearing or around $1000-1200usd. Possibly more.

Personally I use/own both a SL-6000L and a C3100 just to have a "best of both worlds" compromise. It would probably be CHEAPER for me to fork out over $1000usd than it would have been for me to have to pay for TWO Zuarii as I currently have been forced to do. For the "perfect Zaurus" those prices aren't rediculous at all as my Zaurus is my primary computer. (I realize this isn't overly common). It's very rare in my particular situation that I use my Desktop computer for anything other than playing World of Warcraft. For everything else I use my Zaurii. Because of my health and being hospital confined or bedbound for large periods of time my Zaurus becomes the ONLY computer I can get to, (Avoid crippling arthritic diseases at all cost. You'll be glad you did.)

I'll be monitoring your progress closely, this idea shows great promise! And PLEASE at least consider adding the "6000 screen" upgrade to your list and research how much parts might cost etc. It may not be feasible or it truly may be cost prohibitive but we will never know till we try. If it would make a difference I would be willing if I'm financially able to do so to front a bit of money to fund the "research and development" phase of the screen project, I'm pretty sure a few others would as well. So find out and then run a price by us for these mods. Or as the old saying goes "Try me....I just might!".

Just let me say up front---- You are NOT allowed to abandon this idea of modding the C3100 platform! I completely FORBID it! You've reignited that spark of hope that I've had for so long that the Perfect Zaurus WOULD be available IN MY LIFETIME! Therefore you may NOT casually crush my hopes and dreams simply because it is "difficult". I fear that my fragile emotional state would never recover from such abusive and callous treatment!

There- I've covered both the stick AND the carrot method! tongue.gif Offer cash rewards on one hand and try to put a guilt trip on 'em the size of Texas on the other! I learned this advanced technique from my children and they assure me - it works every time. wink.gif

-NeuroShock
DrWowe
QUOTE(neuroshock @ Dec 7 2005, 05:59 AM)
2. The second stipulation is that It would need to be accompanied by fully functional working drivers, (installed and available), for the original Sharp ROM, Cacko, AND pdaXrom.


You might rethink that. My only requirement would be that "cat /proc/usb/devices" shows they are present and recognized. It's an inefficient distribution of labor to require that a talanted hardware modder also spend the time and effort to support every imaginable software combination. There's plenty of other people with the abilities to get the software side working, and it's going to require community effort to make this project fully functional.

QUOTE(neuroshock @ Dec 7 2005, 05:59 AM)
I fear that my fragile emotional state would never recover from such abusive and callous treatment!


Ummmm.... yeah. This is business it isn't "God's given right to have a 3100W". I don't want potential modders to be scared off by the thought of putting their customers into therapy... blink.gif
adf
I dunno... we could agree on parts and collaborate on on making modules and installation packages. I agree that Tom61 should stick to the hardware mods if that is what suits him... but it would be pointless for a lot of us (and scare some potential fellow travelers) if he just stuck some hardware in the Z and said "good luck"

If we are talking about a standard usb bt/wifi dongle that already has linux drivers, we could probably arrange to write and post the drivers pretty easily. We could also send the original, external version of the device with a few dollars to our favorite dev teams and let them handle the integration, if they agree to it.
There are a few options here. The point is, It has to work well and easily when we are done. That is to say, if I get one done ,and I love it and talk about it, it would be best if someone else could, with confidence, order one for themselves, and expect to have it working on their rom of choice when it arrives home.

That only amounts to a handful of kernel modules (or kernels with the drivers built-in, my preference)
Tom61
ADF pretty much summed up my thoughts on the driver stipulation. I'll try to find a module that is already well supported by the roms currently out, but I can't control what the software people do, or the wierd interactions software sometimes has.

Stipulation 1 is no trouble, USB can handle up to 127 devices so an extra 2 shouldn't hurt your expansion possibilities. I will of course do testing to make sure. Stip. 3 was expected.

Da_Blitz: One thing at a time wink.gif
adf
2 things...
the screen transplant would be cool

a passthrough (mina Male / A female)bt/wifi dongle using the same modules would probably see some demand as well
waalkman
QUOTE(TRIsoft @ Dec 5 2005, 03:11 AM)
the problem is the pricetag.
A modification in any means will need a new test for
CE/FCC conformity. All in all we're talking about roughly
>$2000 for a medium modification here.
This is OK for every new Zaurus model with a large
quantitiy to be sold, but nobody would pay it for a series
of 10 units.

///TRIsoft

Marc Stephan
*


I'm sure that this will come as quite a shock to Xbox modders everywhere - I'd say that it would be a safe bet that *none* of the modchips have been tested for compliance.

And while the argument could be made that these devices are to be installed by the users, there are several sites that will install them for you.
neuroshock
[quote=DrWowe,Dec 7 2005, 05:17 PM]
[quote=neuroshock,Dec 7 2005, 05:59 AM]2. The second stipulation is that It would need to be accompanied by fully functional working drivers, (installed and available), for the original Sharp ROM, Cacko, AND pdaXrom.
[/quote]

You might rethink that. My only requirement would be that "cat /proc/usb/devices" shows they are present and recognized. It's an inefficient distribution of labor to require that a talanted hardware modder also spend the time and effort to support every imaginable software combination. There's plenty of other people with the abilities to get the software side working, and it's going to require community effort to make this project fully functional.
[/quote]
*

[/quote]


Doc,

I see your point, but you think you may have missed mine. I didn't claim to be speaking for the community. I'm just speaking for myself, and I meant every word of it. It's very important to me and if I can't get that level of functionality out of the box then I'm not interested in spending money on it.

Also I agree and didn't expect him to require coverage for "every imaginable software combination", I specifically narrowed it to the default Sharp ROM, Cacko, and pdaXrom. These are not "fly by night" unknown nor obscure ROM's there's no reason this should cripple his project in the long term.

I didn't intend for it to be inferred that Tom himself had to do all the writing/tailoring of the drivers but I can easily see how what I wrote could be read that way. It was sloppy writing on my part, I should have proofread it better. What I meant to get across was that before I would be willing to hire him to do this then SOMEONE had to come up with working drivers for those ROM's AND that he would have to include the drivers and instructions on how to install them with the modded unit when he shipped it back to me. I don't care WHERE they originated from so long as they WORK and are PROVIDED. My guess is that every tech-head we have will be all over this the moment the first unit rolls out and you probably couldn't STOP those drivers from being available if you tried!

So, if you combine these clarifications you come up with something like this:

Others may, (and surely will), jump in line before me to be his customer. I will wait however until drivers have been written, (I don't care by whom - just that they work), tested, and become available for those three ROM's. Those drivers will have to provide 100% functionality and Tom will need to distribute them in electronic format along with detailed installation instructions. Since I will have flashed my unit back to the stock rom (english trans.) when I send it to him I expect that when I receive it back from him for the hardware modded additions to work right out of the box. If this never becomes a reality then I am doomed to never be an owner of one of these lovely modded "dream machines". =(

Just so that the non-SL-6000 crowd will understand. I was one of the first SL-6000 owners. It was a wonderful, glorious new machine and it DID have great capabilities right out of the box. But I quickly found that us 6k owners were stuck in a time capsule. As the clamshells came out, model after model, ROM's started falling from the sky that not only offered better eye candy but BETTER PERFORMANCE and therefore BETTER FUNCTIONALITY in a few key areas. Full screen video was virtually impossible to me (very sensitive to refresh rates, anythin under 22-24fps makes me physically sick) as was running SNES/Gameboy/MAME class emulators, first person shooters, and even some of the full screen sdl games that I bought retail, (and that scooted in comparison on my SL-5500.) Yes, you could get close to decent performance if you spent a few hundred hours and invested a PHD or so to the task- but until the last few months we never had ONE SINGLE VIABLE OPTION that provided full functionality for our SL-6000's. And STILL TO THIS DAY no rom has provided framebuffer/video acceleration- we currently have hundreds of dollars in open reward money to anyone that would provide us with this! But nothing to show for it to date. If it hadn't been for Guylhem's pioneering efforts at providing a performance kernel and later a ROM to go with it we may never have had any performance enhancements at all- and all other model owners have come to EXPECT those as a minimum requirement. Around the same time Cacko and pdaXrom entered the 6000 fray and also shook off enuf of the use prohibitive problems to be viable for the average numbskull like myself to use.

This doesn't even amble into the misc. hardware (CF, sdcards, USB devices, Bluetooth devices etc) that I've bought in the last two years alone that I was never able to get functioning with even the Sharp ROM of any Zaurus I have owned.

Anyhow, as you can see I've just gotten to the end of my rope with "bleeding edge devices" when it comes to my Zaurus. My pocketbook and patience have both learned their lesson and I'll step back a few and let the folks who are actually talented in the software area take point for a while. So I WILL throw my money into the ring for this C3100 Modding- but until it's 100% ready- neither am I.

Tom doesn't have to slave away at both the hardware and software sides of this thing- but if he doesn't/can't then the not-so-skilled mainstream Zaurus user will never pay for it. If we had the skillz ourselves we wouldn't pay someone to do what we could do for ourselves. It's gotta work, there's gotta be viable ROM options, and its gotta be 100% functional out of the box. Anything less than 100% functional = partially broken, and while I'll use partially broken for free - I'm sure not gonna pay for it. The whole point is to pay someone else good money to make it work for me WITHOUT me having to do it myself.

Just my two cents worth folks, however my feelings probably are pretty mainstream. If Tom wants to sell enough of these mods to make regular money on the side he's going to have to appeal to more users than just the bleeding-edge elite.

Tom, I SINCERELY hope you can pull some/most/all of these mods off. I'm putting my money behind that hope. Make it happen. You can do this, if for no other reason than that.....I believe.

-NeuroShock
bgsfh
In communications with the supplier for the flash memory upgrade chips, they brought up LCD screens. If someone could give me the manufacturer and part numbers for the screen of the 6K or the appropriate specifications, I could enquire about the purchase of screens as well.

As an aside, in addition trying to find dead 6Ks on Ebay as screen donors, someone could look for other devices that may use the same component. I know that the Toshiba e800 used the same dimension screen protectors. Perhaps they used the same screen.
guylhem
Hello

Glad to have some news! Regarding the part number for the 6k screen, I did post it here. Can't find it atm- maybe with search you can find it ?

Guylhem
adf
QUOTE(guylhem @ Dec 16 2005, 07:04 PM)
Hello

Glad to have some news! Regarding the part number for the 6k screen, I did post it here. Can't find it atm- maybe with search you can find it ?

Guylhem
*

I saw it recently. it is under replacement screen sometjhing or other, I think
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