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doppiaemme
Hi !

This is not a proper feature request or similar, I simply point out impressions from me and my colleagues (who never tried before pdaxrom) after some months using pdaxrom on a SL-6000

First of all I have to emphasize the astonishing capabilities of this environment... A pocket pc user simply can't imagine what is possible to do with Z and pdaxrom. But I avoid now to mention the specific peculiarities, all people on this forum know these distinctive features.

I know that 6000 users are a minority group but maybe some considerations could be useful also for clamshell users.

Our humble impressions are summarized:

-"PDA-like" use:
Actually pdaXrom is the most advanced system among all the rom available for Zaurus but it is not the most comfortable for daily "PDA-like" use. Calendar, addressbook, notes, voice recorder, etc are available but not so smart like on other systems/ROM. I'd like to resume very quickly the PDA, having these applications promptly available with their core features working well and in a simple way. For example from this point of view Sharp ROM is cool, it's easy to use, syncing, and with all basic features working well (alarm, writing, notes, etc). Also OZ is cool except some problems never solved.
I don't have much time to search a difficult-to-find solution for comon problem, it would be great to have them available after flashing and have more common documentation.

Please tell me what you think are the best solutions to this problems or if they are just solved but not available, on the nail, in a just flashed Z.




BTW I write now a list of wishes/opinions from the point of view of new users coming to pdaXrom with Matchbox (thanks to my colleagues for trying and commenting a new flashed pdaxrom).

My colleagues said:



-Resuming/suspending is slow!!!

-Missing good calendar/contact/etc apps. kdepim, ka/pi, ko/pi, have many problems, easy-syncing, alarms, time-to-load, too much "big" for the Z's LCD etc

-On 6000 all applications are "thinked" in landscape mode. Windows go out of border, resizing, maximize and moving windows is slow and heavy. (Xfce is better from this point of view)

-Never found a simple solutions to right click. I'd like simple "press&hold" the stylus but it doesn't work. Applet, keymapping and other things seems uncomfortable.

-Missing a smart file browser

-Never found a simple solutions to mapping all the keys on the 6000. the functions keys, the REC keys, rotate/lighting key etc. The standard mapping like in Sharp ROM would be great, with the FN key working correctly

-The software keyboard is not cool as the pop-up one of opie.

-Many settings tools and applet doesn't work properly (wireless, suspend etc)

-Sending/receiving file through IR fails when I tried with my 6000 (works with sharp rom)

-Bluetooth GUI tools would be great

-After rotating it wold be useful to have the arrow keys to also rotate, to scroll down a web page I have to press"left" (down in portrait)



I would like this post to help users and developers to build a stable and working system which could bring many other Z user to flash pdaXrom....

And, finally, many thanks to pdaXrom developers.

PS
About donations...
It could be a good solution to have donating system also related to feature requests...
rmrfchik
pdaXrom loaded with desktop software (which is as elephant in the crockery store).

So the only chance to solve problems is to write new software which will be PDA oriented.
puthreguy
QUOTE(rmrfchik @ Jan 5 2006, 01:10 PM)
So the only chance to solve problems is to write new software which will be PDA oriented.
*


And you end up with a brand new PALM biggrin.gif
PuthreGuy
ZDevil
QUOTE(rmrfchik @ Jan 5 2006, 01:10 PM)
pdaXrom loaded with desktop software (which is as elephant in the crockery store).
So the only chance to solve problems is to write new software which will be PDA oriented.
*


I don't feel the same. Not all desktop softwares are elephants. So many apps compiled directly from the source run fast on Z. Quite a number of them actually run even faster than the PDA-oriented equivalents, such as terminal apps and text editors. Now no more big need for any purely PDA-oriented apps, if there are choices. The major reason is I want to make my Z a true extension of my home PC by getting both of them to run the same apps and to handle data in exactly the same formats, then I can use email/a card reader/LAN/bluetooth/etc to maintain the data in a very straightforward manner. Conduit issues have always dreaded me since the good time when i was embracing palm, and this is the main reason why I gave up palm and other pure PDAs. smile.gif
rmrfchik
Your approach is good for office suits. I like to have gnumeric on my Z (no more converting hell!), but there is NO fast/small PIM software.

what about gnome's file open dialog? It doesn't fit on screen. It requires double click to open file. Both issues sucks.

where is game software? I like to spend my metro's time to solve solitaires (ok, liked when I held palm t3).

instead of compatibility/conduit hell we have speed/number-of-pda-aware-soft hell.
ZDevil
My path is the other way round. Once a hardcore palm follower, but now don't fancy the 'pdas' any more. rolleyes.gif
For PIM apps, there are indeed some excellent choices, such as fltdj, jpilot, memo (requires python).
KO/Pi is great if you can bear the relatively long startup time but once launched it's very functional and useful.
Or for the nerds then Emacs planner.el or VimOutliners.
There are also quite a number of very nice notetaking and outliners/planners, such as tuxcards, notecase, immendio planner, sticky notes, xpad, FreeNoteQT, IQnote, etc. For financial management we got grisbi.
All these apps do load and run very fast. Speed is just not an issue for them. Still many cool desktop apps are sleek, neat, compact and elegant, if you take a closer look.
It may be a misunderstanding that zaurus does not offer a great number of app choices. Rather, we can port them all the time. That's why I've been trying to compile the ones I do find useful, and trying to share them with other users who are also seeking these solutions, at the risk of being accused by those saying "duh, compiling these apps is just darn simple; everyone can do it easily. Why bother to post them and waste web space?" rolleyes.gif
I am no big fan of the gnome's file dialog. So no comment. smile.gif
Well I seldom play games, except a few simple ones like tetris and backgammon to kill time. I prefer reading ebooks. ;P
Yes I agree the choice of (small) apps for palm is its selling point. But many (or most) of them can either feel like toys not meant for serious use, or often fail to live up to the conduit/syncing ideal. The top killers, such as Agendus, Bonsai, LifeBalance, etc, all more or less have some glitches in the interface (ususally cluttering interface) and syncing. Remember usually the good ones means you have to pay, not a small amount really) and they are not open source.
My favourites remain the plain vanilla PIMs, a few das (such as damemopad), progect and diddlebugs (well I know I shouldn't have talked about this here). They are freewares but fortunately I manage to find equivalents on the zaurus side, and find these alternatives much more solid and reliable. And again no more syncing hell.
The only thing I don't really like about the zaurii is the lack of builtin wireless capabilities.
I often talk with many palm-user friends. What they usually perceive is a naive palm-IS-simple-and-zaurus/linux-is-overcomplicated dichotomy. But the more I use zaurus, and use it for real, big, serious tasks, the more I see its beauty,... and got hooked. laugh.gif
doppiaemme
QUOTE(ZDevil @ Jan 6 2006, 09:38 AM)
For PIM apps
...


Yes ok, I think that there are some way to solve the problems of the lack of PIM apps AFTER installing them, not in a just flashed ROM,

BTW the other issue in my first post, except the PIM apps, seems to be specifically related to pdaXrom...
I know that clamsheel users often don't have many of these problems, but in view of a stable release I really don't feel well with all these pestering things...
Note that many users came from linux but are simply users, not guru or geeks...
It would be great to have all the basic hardware and software features working well.

Why don't solve common issues rather than adding other (cool!) sci-fi tools :-) ?
DrWowe
QUOTE(ZDevil @ Jan 6 2006, 02:38 AM)
"duh, compiling these apps is just darn simple; everyone can do it easily. Why bother to post them and waste web space?"  rolleyes.gif
I agree. Compiling any single app usually doesn't take too long, but putting them all together adds up the time. The biggest problem with precompiled ipks in my experience is that you don't know what dependencies they have and if they will work on my particular machine at the moment. It's frustrating when 10 people have compiled the same app and they are all in different places that I have to find and download I can't actually find any that work.

The feed concept is nice for aggregation and easy of use, but it doesn't seem to work well in practice. Even on Cacko, 1/2 of the packages in their own feed aren't compatible or don't work.

QUOTE(ZDevil @ Jan 6 2006, 02:38 AM)
Yes I agree the choice of (small) apps for palm is its selling point. 
I don't think that anymore, after owning a Palm for a long time you realize that hardly anybody offers source code so if it's almost what you want but there's something missing then too bad, and 3/4 of the developers think that their little piece of crap is worth $5 or $10 just because it's for Palm, when there's free software for Linux and most other platforms that does the same thing better, and they put all kinds of cripples and timebombs in their code that clutters up your Preferences database (like Windows registry) even after you uninstall the app. There some worthwhile exceptions to this, but overall most Palm software is crap.

QUOTE(ZDevil @ Jan 6 2006, 02:38 AM)
The only thing I don't really like about the zaurii is the lack of builtin wireless capabilities.
You don't have a 6000 do you? smile.gif
daniel3000
Just a few notes, as I am browsing pdaxrom threads now:

QUOTE(rmrfchik @ Jan 6 2006, 09:55 AM)
Your approach is good for office suits. I like to have gnumeric on my Z (no more converting hell!), but there is NO fast/small PIM software.



KDEPIM/PI 2.2.7 runs faster on pdaXrom than on Cacko ROM and it is great, too.
A few minor screen layout glitches, but in general one can live with that very well!

QUOTE
what about gnome's file open dialog? It doesn't fit on screen. It requires double click to open file. Both issues sucks.


Fixed by Meanie now.
Install Meanie's hacked GTK lib and all file open dialogs will fit. Doubleclick: I agree, this is a bit annoying.

QUOTE
where is game software? I like to spend my metro's time to solve solitaires (ok, liked when I held palm t3).


Try Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection (PPC). Great little puzzles, addictive! Don't know about solitaire.

daniel
ZDevil
Just happened to see a nice blog discussed in this thread: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=21234
It's a very nice article on how to implement GTD with KO/Pi .
daniel3000
QUOTE(ZDevil @ Aug 30 2006, 06:55 PM)
Just happened to see a nice blog discussed in this thread: http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=21234
It's a very nice article on how to implement GTD with KO/Pi .
*


Yes, I am already studying it and evaluating if this is something useful for me. :-)
Thanks for the pointer.
daniel
adf
i just switched back to pdaXrom. ( I left in frustration over beta4 coming on top of the nearly, but not quite complete 2.4 versions )

A major issue in my switching back was my acquisition of a smartphone and internet connection to go with it. This puts my pim apps on the phone, and lets me use my Z as a laptop.
just thought I'd mention the idea of intentionally not using the Z as a pda..but rather using a phone suite.
dlj0
QUOTE(rmrfchik @ Jan 6 2006, 03:55 AM)
Your approach is good for office suits. I like to have gnumeric on my Z (no more converting hell!), but there is NO fast/small PIM software.

No?  I use fltdj and it does what I need.  Calender for scheduling, and an adequate (OK, only just) address book.  That's fast and simple.  The k* stuff is fancier, but neither fast nor simple.  But either way is available.

what about gnome's file open dialog? It doesn't fit on screen. It requires double click to open file. Both issues sucks.

Why not use a command line?  I have never understood the need to do otherwise.

where is game software? I like to spend my metro's time to solve solitaires (ok, liked when I held palm t3).

There is solitaire, but IMO only the seahaven is decent.
daniel3000
QUOTE(ZDevil @ Jan 5 2006, 11:18 PM)
I don't feel the same.  Not all desktop softwares are elephants.  So many apps compiled directly from the source run fast on Z.  Quite a number of them actually run even faster than the PDA-oriented equivalents, such as terminal apps and text editors. 
*


Right.
I was very surprised how fast Abiword, Gnumeric, Sylpheed etc. work on pdaXrom compared to pdaXQTrom.
Well, compared to their Sharp/Cacko ROM "equivalents" the may load a bit slower and maybe react a bit more slowly, but hey, there is a reason why I put "equivalents" into quotes. The mentioned applications are much more powerful than most of the programs available for Cacko/Sharp ROM.
AND they are all free.

The speed impact is totally acceptable IMHO. And I am a power user with focus on fast and efficient workflows!

daniel
desertrat
QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Aug 31 2006, 07:41 AM)
The mentioned applications are much more powerful than most of the programs available for Cacko/Sharp ROM.

I wonder how they compare to the Pocket "Office" apps you get with wince machines rolleyes.gif
ZDevil
QUOTE(desertrat @ Aug 31 2006, 05:46 PM)
QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Aug 31 2006, 07:41 AM)
The mentioned applications are much more powerful than most of the programs available for Cacko/Sharp ROM.

I wonder how they compare to the Pocket "Office" apps you get with wince machines rolleyes.gif
*



To me, the name Pocket "Office" in those wince machines is rather deceptive.
The so-called Pocket Word is actually nothing more than a simple WordPad with very limited formatting support. AbiWord on pdaX is definitely the winner here. Even on Sharp/Cacko Hancom Word is said to be closer to M$ Word than Pocket Word.
Pocket Excel doesn't seem to be more useful than HancomSheet on Sharp/Cacko, and definitely not as powerful as gnumeric on pdaX.
For Powerpoint, Hancom Presenter on Sharp/Cacko seems to fall short; OOo should do the same job, and even better.
Very oftern I hear reviews and hypes on big commercial websites talking people in buying wince/ppc devices to take advantage of the mobile "Office", but there are always complaints from (new) buyers about the overstated functionality of such dwarfed Office suite.
Just my 0.2 cent. rolleyes.gif
daniel3000
I really don't understand why Microsoft doesn't put more power into their mobile software. It cannot be so hard. Softmaker also does it, many private progammers also do it (see opensource solutions).

daniel
adf
I think the MS stuff is weak because it is more about sales than quality. Think about how many of their apps are intentionally crippled to create additional markts and a need for additional licences and dev kits with licences...etc...


The 2003 1st ed on the voq is less powerful than sharprom out of the box on a 5x00.... but it is sufficient for simple pim/contact/email and basic (pocket ie) web browsing/ all tolerably integrated. I'm very much looking forward to getting it to work as a modem for the Z
desertrat
QUOTE(ZDevil @ Aug 31 2006, 05:18 PM)
To me, the name Pocket "Office" in those wince machines is rather deceptive.

Exactly smile.gif

QUOTE
Very oftern I hear reviews and hypes on big commercial websites talking people in buying wince/ppc devices to take advantage of the mobile "Office", but there are always complaints from (new) buyers about the overstated functionality of such dwarfed Office suite.

The fact that desktop produced documents do not survive a round trip to the wince machine and back utterly cripples any usefulness[1]. That means Pocket "Word" is no good for anything other than simple note taking, or as a basic viewer for Word documents produced on the desktop. Pocket "Excel" is slightly in that you can actually use it standalone to produce credible spreadsheets, but it doesn't do charts! Their website says "When, where and how you work is entirely up to you with wince", yeah my a$$ smile.gif It's true you can take your work with you, but don't expect to be able to do anything with it and have it transferred back to your desktop verbatim.

[1]WM2005 is slightly better in this respect as it preserves more of a document's contents when converting to wince. But for me, any loss of content or information is unacceptable.
adf
I supposed I should have mentioned that I just started with wince 03 last week---
I expected it to be kinda crppled, but was stll pretty shocked at how limited ALL the apps seem to be. Obvious options are missing in almost every menu, every app has some obvious feature left ou, or stripped. The coming from any Z rom to wince seems like a really, unpleasantly eye opening xperience.

of course, the fewe things that wince does rerwquire very little configuration or tinkering. not a great tradeoff, imho. But as I said- if you don7 expect much from it, it Can do simple tasks ok.

I haven't tried / or inended to try any office stuff. I would have guessed, though that some major core functionality would be simply missing.
uMP2k
QUOTE(adf @ Sep 1 2006, 04:24 PM)
I supposed I should have mentioned that I just started with wince 03 last week---
I expected it to be kinda crppled, but was stll pretty shocked at how limited ALL the apps seem to be.  Obvious options are missing in almost every menu, every app has some obvious feature left ou, or stripped. The coming from any Z rom to wince seems like a really, unpleasantly eye opening xperience.

of course, the fewe things that wince does rerwquire very little configuration or tinkering.  not a great tradeoff, imho.  But as I said- if you don7 expect much from it, it Can do simple tasks ok. 

I haven't tried / or inended to try any office stuff.  I would have guessed, though that some major core functionality would be simply missing.
*


One thing that should be noted is that the VOQ runs a fairly old version of the windows mobile for smartphone software rather than the more powerful Windows mobile for Pocket PC OS. Atlhough the latest release of Windows Mobile (WM5) does bring those two operating systems much closer together there are still some difference.

That said, it is true that Pocket Office (or Office Mobile as it is now called) is fairly limited. The new version of Mobile Word pretty much solves the roundtripping issues, but only in the sense that it does not strip out the incompatible features when you open a document on the Pocket PC. Instead it ignores them, leaving them untouched for when you open the document on a full desktop version of word. In terms of features it is still probably a bit less capable than Hancom Word and way way way behind AbiWord.

There is TextMaker available for the PocketPc, which is probably about the same as AbiWord in terms of features.

The biggest problem with using mobile office (and a lot of other software) on the Pocket PC is the the screen resolution, however. Even on my Dell Axim x50v, which has a 3.7 inch (diag) 640 x 480 screen (pretty much the same specs as on my new C1000) the OS only allows you to see most things in a sort of simulated qVGA resolution, so you see much less on the screen which is a real pain when trying to do word processing. Despite all the many great strengths of the PocketPC (particularly a device like the x50v/x51v) like built in wifi/BT, great HWR and a lot of very very useful apps it is the screen real estate issue which is the one thing that has made me look to the Z as my pocketable desktop replacement.
adf
.... and not having to buy software that turns out not to work as advertised? the stuff for '03 ist on the voq is pretty weak multimedia web streams..surprisingly so, in fact.

I do realize the stuff on Voq is a little old. so is shaprom, for that matter. The voq was cheap smile.gif

Back to the topic. been back on Beta3for a few days. It is really nice. this time around I did the default desktop + rox, installed practically everyithing from the contrib feeds and the mains and beta1 (like 2+ gigs o software) It all seems to work beautifiully. No probs with the 4 gig sd.

I do have an mplayer question, though..
on both pre 7 and pre 8 (the feed's and meanie's respectivey) vga video playback is slower than I'd like...slower than cacko. when I try mplayer -nocache -framedrop -vo bvdd filename, it crashes telling me it can't open bvdd.
suggestions?
Meanie
QUOTE(adf @ Sep 4 2006, 11:34 AM)
.... and not having to buy software that turns out not to work as advertised?  the stuff for '03 ist on the voq is pretty weak multimedia web streams..surprisingly so, in fact.

I do realize the stuff on Voq is a little old.  so is shaprom, for that matter.  The voq was cheap smile.gif

Back to the topic.  been back on Beta3for a few days. It is really nice. this time around I did the default desktop + rox, installed practically everyithing from the contrib feeds and the mains and beta1 (like 2+ gigs o software)  It all seems to work beautifiully. No probs with the 4 gig sd.

I do have an mplayer question, though..
on both pre 7 and pre 8 (the feed's and meanie's respectivey) vga video playback is slower than I'd like...slower than cacko.  when I try mplayer -nocache -framedrop -vo bvdd filename, it crashes telling me it can't open bvdd.
suggestions?
*


well, cacko's mplayer is in fact ATTY's mplayer which was compiled with bvdd support and iwxmmt optimisations.
i just realised that I only compiled it with xscale but not iwxmmt optimisation hence, the huge performance difference.
also, i did not include bvdd because that would require some code changes, mainly changing the fbcon code to use the bvdd driver instead. i wanted gmplayer support which requires gtk support rather than fbcon/bvdd.
dlj0
QUOTE(desertrat @ Aug 31 2006, 11:46 AM)
QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Aug 31 2006, 07:41 AM)
The mentioned applications are much more powerful than most of the programs available for Cacko/Sharp ROM.

I wonder how they compare to the Pocket "Office" apps you get with wince machines rolleyes.gif
*



Well, both abiword and gnumeric on pdaXrom are exactly the same as on my debian desktop. The "pocket" versions of word and excel are scaled-down, limited-utility things for over-stressed CE machines, these are not. From what I saw back when I used Sharp roms, these are also much more robust than the Hancom equivalents (though I don't know about the Powerpoint clone -- OTOH, I hate powerpoint, and don't use anything like it. Most of my lectures use one rock scratching on another.
adf
QUOTE(Meanie @ Sep 4 2006, 02:37 AM)
QUOTE(adf @ Sep 4 2006, 11:34 AM)
.... and not having to buy software that turns out not to work as advertised?  the stuff for '03 ist on the voq is pretty weak multimedia web streams..surprisingly so, in fact.

I do realize the stuff on Voq is a little old.  so is shaprom, for that matter.  The voq was cheap smile.gif

Back to the topic.  been back on Beta3for a few days. It is really nice. this time around I did the default desktop + rox, installed practically everyithing from the contrib feeds and the mains and beta1 (like 2+ gigs o software)  It all seems to work beautifiully. No probs with the 4 gig sd.

I do have an mplayer question, though..
on both pre 7 and pre 8 (the feed's and meanie's respectivey) vga video playback is slower than I'd like...slower than cacko.  when I try mplayer -nocache -framedrop -vo bvdd filename, it crashes telling me it can't open bvdd.
suggestions?
*

right. the gtk support is worthwhile, imho... besides I usually do qvga vid on my Z anyway

well, cacko's mplayer is in fact ATTY's mplayer which was compiled with bvdd support and iwxmmt optimisations.
i just realised that I only compiled it with xscale but not iwxmmt optimisation hence, the huge performance difference.
also, i did not include bvdd because that would require some code changes, mainly changing the fbcon code to use the bvdd driver instead. i wanted gmplayer support which requires gtk support rather than fbcon/bvdd.
*

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