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handheld-linux
Dear Community,

there have been just 7 new entries on ELSIX since beginning of December 2005 and the last contribution in this board goes back to September, we have thought that it is time for a fresh approach we want to donate to the community.

Looking back, Killefiz was a very popular database before it was more or less abandoned by its moderator (although there have been some 10 updates in last year and 20 more this January). After that, ELSIX was started with great efforts, the killefiz dtaabase was integrated and authors updated their applications. But if you look at the statistics, it is by far less popular than killefiz.

We think this might have several reasons (as discussed here before): missing ease of use in operating the system for software developers and Zaurus user and missing links from this forum to ELSIX. We think that the main purpose must be a communication platform between people (authors and potential users) so it must be designed to ease communication.

Therefore we thought that a different approach is required and have worked on new tool and hope that it gains more acceptance. To do that we have

* copied the clean layout of Killefiz (as much information on one page - but still easy to read)
* added logins to allow users to subscribe to change requests and to write comments
* allows users to get moderator status - this allows a more community based approach in approving changes and is no longer on the shoulders of a single person
* improved management of screenshots
* imported the Killefiz data (status December - but only the approved entries) Thanks to Sven!!

After some hard work we are now happy to make it public:

http://www.handheld-linux.com/swi/index.php

So, please

* use the database
* bookmark it
* link to it on your pages
* tell everybody you know about it
* ask others to link to it
* start submitting updates and new software
* mark old entries
* note on bugs
* make proposals for improvement
* ask to become moderator
* sponsor this effort by looking at the www.handheld-linux.com shop

Comments welcome!

Nikolaus Schaller
http://www.handheld-linux.com
Germany
tombraider
This is great! Thank you, thank you.
Have already put a link on my web site - will put a link to your shop too.

Very much needed.

QUOTE(handheld-linux @ Jan 28 2006, 10:56 AM)
Dear Community,

there have been just 7 new entries on ELSIX since beginning of December 2005 and the last contribution in this board goes back to September, we have thought that it is time for a fresh approach we want to donate to the community.

Looking back, Killefiz was a very popular database before it was more or less abandoned by its moderator (although there have been some 10 updates in last year and 20 more this January). After that, ELSIX was started with great efforts, the killefiz dtaabase was integrated and authors updated their applications. But if you look at the statistics, it is by far less popular than killefiz.

We think this might have several reasons (as discussed here before): missing ease of use in operating the system for software developers and Zaurus user and missing links from this forum to ELSIX. We think that the main purpose must be a communication platform between people (authors and potential users) so it must be designed to ease communication.

Therefore we thought that a different approach is required and have worked on new tool and hope that it gains more acceptance. To do that we have

* copied the clean layout of Killefiz (as much information on one page - but still easy to read)
* added logins to allow users to subscribe to change requests and to write comments
* allows users to get moderator status - this allows a more community based approach in approving changes and is no longer on the shoulders of a single person
* improved management of screenshots
* imported the Killefiz data (status December - but only the approved entries) Thanks to Sven!!

After some hard work we are now happy to make it public:

http://www.handheld-linux.com/swi/index.php

So, please

* use the database
* bookmark it
* link to it on your pages
* tell everybody you know about it
* ask others to link to it
* start submitting updates and new software
* mark old entries
* note on bugs
* make proposals for improvement
* ask to become moderator
* sponsor this effort by looking at the www.handheld-linux.com shop

Comments welcome!

Nikolaus Schaller
http://www.handheld-linux.com
Germany
*
Cresho
ohh my god! this is exactly what i needed. I had major problems with the old elsix.
pgas
Cool, so now we have:

- an index that is old and dead but still got some update
- an index that is new but less popular than the old one
- a newer index with the same content as the two previous. (possibly cooked up without trying to talk with elsix)

I don't see how a new index site can be succesfull without a redirection from killefiz as a google search for "zaurus younameit" leads to the older index.
Cresho
you are absolutly right pgas. but maybee this one will catch on. zsi was the first and wont be toppled. the problem with this one is the "handheld software index" where is the zaurus? people do searches by typing zaurus and not handheld software index.

so it still needs some work in my own opinion. if you have enough hits, then of course it will get populare. and since this is the bigest forum on the net for the z, it would become the ointment on my pimple...only if they change the title for search purpouses.
rokugo
OK, this is rather embarassing to admit, but after 2 years of using the Zaurus, and googling for software for it, and 1.5 years in this forum, this is the FIRST TIME I have heard of "ELSIX" ph34r.gif

OTOH the killefiz site comes out on the first page of my google search almost everytime.

OK, so will this new Zaurus Software Index supercede the kilefiz site? Or they co-exist (which might cause confusion)?

Btw the bright and simple color scheme is nicer than in the old index. Easier to read smile.gif
xamindar
Good to hear that there is a new source of zaurus software.

There are a few things I would like to suggest and these are things that always annoyed me about kilefiz:

1) dependancy list for each software
2) Zaurus model and roms supported
3) Resolutions supported


Now in the old one some software listed this but it wasn't consistent.

Anyway, thanks for the new site! I will use it. smile.gif
dz
If the community agrees, I can shut down elsi. If this new site is what you guys want and it works better, than we'll adapt to this one.

I don't want to get into a long debate about anything, just because there's nothing to say that hasn't been said. I'm just happy that someone who has more time than I has decided to step forward and actually do something about it rather than just sit and complain that elsi wasn't good.

Nikolaus, if your developer PMs me I have a list of ideas that Mike and I originally had for the elsi that I can pass onto you guys that you hopefully can do.

Good luck with it. Hopefully we can all agree on one definite one and stick with that.

Roy
bluedevils
roy,

elsix.org was very much appreciated by me and it was a very ambitious project. Thanks.
Cresho
Nothing wrong with elsix. Just nobody knew about it on the way it was layed out accross the forums and everything else. I even recently discovered it and i am a zaurus user since long time.

This new forum will also suffer as well since there is no zaurus as a title. handheld index just will not work for google searches when your looking at zaurus software. It's also very user friendly. I just put up a file in a split second.

I need to get the moderator or owner to change that.

I really wonder what they where thinking.
cybersphinx
Nice. Hopefully we'll get one maintained Software Index soon.

The RSS feed has a little problem though: The links are missing a '/' and have an 's' too much.
bluedevils
totally agree with cresho. Do a google on zaurus software as most newbies would do and you don't see elsix.org in the top 10 results. This is the determining factor for downloads.
ken
QUOTE(dz @ Jan 28 2006, 07:44 PM)
If the community agrees, I can shut down elsi.  If this new site is what you guys want and it works better, than we'll adapt to this one.


nothing wrong with elsix, imo. The issue is trying to code it, which takes time. Elsix is an ambitious project, and like any project, needs people to work on it.

The basic info in Elsix is fine, just the interface isn't as enticing as killefiz. Unfortunately, after a while, he no longer responded to changes. I tried to update the info there, but it never went anywhere.

Elsix at least has a lot of updated info.

I suppose I can yet again, try to work on updating info on this new site. I think it would be prudent to first ask killefiz if it's okay if we copied his layout.
handheld-linux
QUOTE(pgas @ Jan 28 2006, 04:40 PM)
I don't see how a new index site can be succesfull without a redirection from killefiz as a google search  for "zaurus younameit"  leads to the older index.

We have asked Killefiz but not got a response yet.

Another option is to have more links directing to the new page. This will raise its position in Google since they take the numer of pointers to a page into account.

Then, we have added some meta-keywords and finally we sponsor some Google Adwords.

Nikolaus
handheld-linux
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jan 28 2006, 04:50 PM)
the problem with this one is the "handheld software index"  where is the zaurus?  people do searches by typing zaurus and not handheld software index.
The title is not the only keyword source for search engines. So, if the title does not contain the keyword Zaurus it might be still on a high page rank if the content of the pages contains it often enough.

And we thought that it should not only be a "Zaurus" index since the Zaurus User Group was also renamed to "Open Embedded Forums" to have a broader scope.

Nikolaus
handheld-linux
QUOTE(xamindar @ Jan 28 2006, 08:13 PM)
There are a few things I would like to suggest and these are things that always annoyed me about kilefiz:

1) dependancy list for each software
2) Zaurus model and roms supported
3) Resolutions supported

1) as a first measure we can add a text field for that
2) is available - as long as the information is consistent. In the new Index you can filter by Model or ROM
3) we can add another text field for that
handheld-linux
QUOTE(dz @ Jan 29 2006, 06:44 AM)
Nikolaus, if your developer PMs me I have a list of ideas that Mike and I originally had for the elsi that I can pass onto you guys that you hopefully can do.

Please mail it to me. We will then see what we can do.
handheld-linux
QUOTE(cybersphinx @ Feb 1 2006, 08:10 PM)
The RSS feed has a little problem though: The links are missing a '/' and have an 's' too much.
Many thanks! We will fix that.
ken
Seriously, it's his interface that he created. Not to get his permission is definitely a no no and goes against the spirit of things. You need to get his permission imo.

He can choose not to respond at all and it'd be his right. I'm sure having his old site there generates quite a lot of traffic.

You may want to consider a separate domain name rather than something so long (something easier to remember).

Also, elsix suffered from people knowing about it. Which would be the same issue your website would have.

While it does have the benefit of a simple interface, I'm sure the old issues that killefiz had would come about (spammed entries) which took up a lot of his time.

That's something that elsix addressed.

Please make a concerted effort to contact him.
handheld-linux
QUOTE(ken @ Feb 3 2006, 03:07 AM)
Seriously, it's his interface that he created.  Not to get his permission is definitely a no no and goes against the spirit of things.  You need to get his permission imo.

He can choose not to respond at all and it'd be his right.  I'm sure having his old site there generates quite a lot of traffic.

Please make a concerted effort to contact him.
*
I do not know how the impression came up that we did not talk to him about the interface before switching the new system online. The author of Killefiz even told us that he himself doesn't like it anymore himself - but we do...

Where we did not get a response yet is about installing a link or forward from his address because we did not have this idea before.

And of course he is free to respond or not. As free as he is to switch killefiz off over night. Or to restart maintaining it regularly. It is a voluntary community.

Best regards,
Nikolaus Schaller
handheld-linux
QUOTE(ken @ Feb 3 2006, 03:07 AM)
While it does have the benefit of a simple interface, I'm sure the old issues that killefiz had would come about (spammed entries) which took up a lot of his time.

We have added an approval scheme where each change needs approval first. And allowing for multiple moderator accounts so that the burden can be distributed onto several shoulders.

And, it is very simple to allow changes with a login only.
ken
QUOTE(handheld-linux @ Feb 2 2006, 08:27 PM)
interface before switching the new system online. The author of Killefiz even told us that he himself doesn't like it anymore himself - but we do...


I'm glad. Thank you for addressing that issue. Might I suggest darker colors on the screen? The current color scheme is rather bright. Even perhaps having the info closer together might be good.
rokugo
The new software site is still not getting any hits in Google.

And as we all know, if its not in Google it doesn't exist wink.gif
handheld-linux
QUOTE(rokugo @ Feb 21 2006, 06:25 AM)
The new software site is still not getting any hits in Google.
That depends largely on the keywords you use (try "zaurus swi"). And from external links pointing to it. So, if you have a site where you can link from, please make it linked and it will raise in index.

And we have sponsored some Google AdWords.

Many thanks,
Nikolaus Schaller
ralphrmartin
How about putting entries from the Zaurus Treasure Box in? Sometimes interesting software pops up there...

http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl=en&ie.../language_tools
matthis
I'd say he the biggest problem is that no new software appears. To say it differently, I've been checking the new software index (and old ones as well), and nothing new for 3 weeks. So its no surprise it doesn't get much attention.
Also, there are few 3000/3100/1000 softs.
And there is nothing a listing site can do about it I guess.
cre8nlove
The new software site ...
And as we all know, if its not in Google it doesn't exist ;)

I7m in japan looking at getting the new zaurus sl c-3200
but i find it only in japanese so far..
is there a way to get it into english?
or where in tokyo in the next 3 days can I get an english version?
handheld-linux
QUOTE(matthis @ Feb 28 2006, 01:15 AM)
I'd say he the biggest problem is that no new software appears. To say it differently, I've been checking the new software index (and old ones as well), and nothing new for 3 weeks.

Hm,
that is simply not true. If you look, there are new entries dated from 12th of Feb, one day before you registered to the OESF forum. So, are there really no new entries within 3 weeks before 28th of Feb?

And, there are 7 new since then.
handheld-linux
QUOTE(cre8nlove @ Mar 19 2006, 01:04 AM)
The new software site ...
And as we all know, if its not in Google it doesn't exist  wink.gif

Try the keywords "new zaurus software index" and you will find it on the first page:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=de&rls=de-...&btnG=Suche&lr=

Interestingly enough, documents pointing to the new index are ranked better - but that is Google's page ranking algorithm where we can't do anything. And since there are so many links for "zaurus software" pointing to killefiz, it will be on rank #1 even if the last entry is months old.

So, simply complaining does not increase Google's rank.

But you can do something! Just link to the the new software index and use good keywords yourself on the page that contains the link.
rrnwexec
Perhaps this information could be collected by way of a mini survey for each app. If you are using a package, you can assist others by filling in the model and ROM. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Randall.

--

QUOTE(xamindar @ Jan 28 2006, 12:13 PM)
Good to hear that there is a new source of zaurus software.

There are a few things I would like to suggest and these are things that always annoyed me about kilefiz:

1) dependancy list for each software
2) Zaurus model and roms supported
3) Resolutions supported


Now in the old one some software listed this but it wasn't consistent.

Anyway, thanks for the new site!  I will use it. smile.gif
*
brashley46
I doubt you'll find any converted to English yet, after all Sharp doesn't do it. Perhaps a tweak of the conversion programmes some of the Western importers have posted for the 3000 and 3100 will work ... then again, maybe you'll have to wait for them to figure one out.

QUOTE(cre8nlove @ Mar 18 2006, 07:04 PM)
The new software site ...
And as we all know, if its not in Google it doesn't exist  wink.gif

I7m in japan looking at getting the new zaurus sl c-3200
but i find it only in japanese so far..
is there a way to get it into english?   
or where in tokyo in the next 3 days can I get an english version?
*
DaemonsGR
QUOTE(cre8nlove @ Mar 19 2006, 02:04 AM)
The new software site ...
And as we all know, if its not in Google it doesn't exist  wink.gif

I7m in japan looking at getting the new zaurus sl c-3200
but i find it only in japanese so far..
is there a way to get it into english?   
or where in tokyo in the next 3 days can I get an english version?
*


http://wolf.ne.jp/
Cresho
made a backup image with english support. download it in zaurusthemes.org as soon as you enter the site, you will be greeted.
handheld-linux
Hi all,
the Zaurus Software Index http://www.handheld-linux.com/swi/ has got one new feature:

it automatically checks if download links are currently alive

Click to view attachment

We hope that this makes the index much more useful, because you can immediately see if a package is still maintained (there are so many older packages described where the server was no longer paid for).

We would also appreciate if you could
* post new software releases
* send updates for download links if you finally find a new link or version
* link to the index in your home pages, blogs etc.

Many thanks in the name of all users,

Nikolaus Schaller
The Handheld Linux Shop
Germany
daniel3000
Hello Nikolaus,

what a coincidence, in my next email to you I just wanted to tell you about a lot of dead links and suggest a feature like the automated link check :-)

Thanks!
daniel
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