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OESF Forums > Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums > Model Specific Forums > C1000/3x00 General discussions
Z_Attorney
I'd like to hear your opinions on whether a Cx000 is worth the extra cost and effort when one can purchase a Toshiba Libretto and run linux on it.

Librettos can be had on E-bay for well under $300.

C1000 can be had from Pricejapan.com for $340, then add the cost of an appropriate AC adapter, cf wi-fi card, and USB host cable and you are already well over $400.

Is the marginal size and hipness factor of the Cx000 really worth the extra cost?
ArchiMark
Don't think that there's just one answer to your question, z_attorney....they're really different animals I think...

Have had several Librettos along with several Zaurii as well many other PDAs, subnotes, etc...
They all have their pluses and minuses...really just depends on what you want to use it for and how you want to use it....

Both the Zaurii and the Librettos are great little devices for very different reasons and purposes.

Do you want something that you put in a pocket and carry everywhere or do you want something that has a larger display/keyboard and can dual-boot Windows/Linux. etc....

Those are the kinds of questions I'd ask myself to help decide which makes more sense for you...

Whatever device you look at there's the physical aspects to it plus the issue of what software can you run on it. In the end if you can't run the software you want to use then you won't be able to use the device for what you want...

Hope this helps a bit....

Mark
Meanie
QUOTE(Meanie @ Apr 23 2006, 09:15 AM)
QUOTE(chyang @ Apr 23 2006, 01:08 AM)
Netfront seems to be useless to me, since it cannot handle Chinese (lots of boxed characters because of lack the encoding recognition). I have tried Meanie's firefox on top of xqt, it's slow and too heavyweight compared with Opera.
Originally with 5500, it's a pleasure to suspend and resume without any problems. But since last hdd1 error, I found Opera is problematic, it may try to store something or load something after the microdrive suspended, then the ext3 file system would complain something. Later it may cause problems to the whole partition. After I moved Opera to SD card, I noticed sometimes it causes problems to the SD too. Don't quite understand the problems well. sad.gif

I wish I could ask some friend to hack my C3000 to a 256MB internal flash one or even larger! smile.gif
*


you nee to assign a chinese capable font to netfront by adding the following entry to netfront's pref file:
CODE
FontFamilyCn: simsun


assuming you have the simsun font installed, or specify any other chinese capable font you have
*




Get both smile.gif The Zaurus rocks if you want something that can be put in a pocket or atached to your belt and runs linux.
The libretto is great if you want to be able to run windows and linux, as well as beastly office applications. If you really need a real small laptop, then the libretto is your friend. the zaurus is really a very powerful pda that can be used liked a laptop but it has a few shortcomings in that department, especially if you need to run presentations off it to a projector (slideshows work, but real interactive demos are a problem) so the libretto will do that for you if you need thata feature.
nilch
Are you talking about the Libretto U100 - that small little beast from Toshiba ?
I think in form factor that reaalyu comes close to the zaurus while giving full functionality.

But where in the hell (or rather where in Ebay) do you get THAT for $300 ?
And a new U100 is around $1500 now. Thats 3 top class Zaurus's for you.

I would gladly buy a U100 form factor laptop if only it was cheaper and it ran Linux well.
(device support). Till then I am gladly running my Zaurus for all needsa it fulfills.
nilch
Are you talking about the Libretto U100 - that small little beast from Toshiba ?
I think in form factor that reaalyu comes close to the zaurus while giving full functionality.

But where in the hell (or rather where in Ebay) do you get THAT for $300 ?
And a new U100 is around $1500 now. Thats 3 top class Zaurus's for you.

I would gladly buy a U100 form factor laptop if only it was cheaper and it ran Linux well.
(device support). Till then I am gladly running my Zaurus for all needsa it fulfills.
drnick
QUOTE(nilch @ Apr 24 2006, 03:00 PM)
Are you talking about the Libretto U100 - that small little beast from Toshiba ?
I think in form factor that reaalyu comes close to the zaurus while giving full functionality.

But where in the hell (or rather where in Ebay) do you get THAT for $300 ?
And a new U100 is around $1500 now. Thats 3 top class Zaurus's for you.

I would gladly buy a U100 form factor laptop if only it was cheaper and it ran Linux well.
(device support). Till then I am gladly running my Zaurus for all needsa it fulfills.
*


It does run linux well....extremely well. The only thing I cant get working is the bluetooth. Theres a kernel patch for it but its only for 2.6.11. And the Authentec fingerprint scanner has a $500 SDK so its unsupported too. Other than that it is most fantasic. Even at only 1.2GHz its really snappy under linux.
cmonex
QUOTE(nilch @ Apr 24 2006, 04:57 PM)
Are you talking about the Libretto U100 - that small little beast from Toshiba ?
I think in form factor that reaalyu comes close to the zaurus while giving full functionality.

But where in the hell (or rather where in Ebay) do you get THAT for $300 ?
And a new U100 is around $1500 now. Thats 3 top class Zaurus's for you.

I would gladly buy a U100 form factor laptop if only it was cheaper and it ran Linux well.
(device support). Till then I am gladly running my Zaurus for all needsa it fulfills.
*



nah probably he was referring to the old librettos. you know, libretto 50ct, 70ct, 100ct, 110ct..
raduga
QUOTE(cmonex @ Apr 24 2006, 07:27 AM)
nah probably he was referring to the old librettos. you know, libretto 50ct, 70ct, 100ct, 110ct..
*


In that event, its a tough call

Both have comparable (for a 110ct) CPUs; Pentium/266 vs ARM/416,
comparable cursor control (trackpoint vs touch screen)

Advantages of an (old-style) Libretto over a Zaurus:

* bigger, better keyboard
* larger screen (800x480, probably not as bright)
* pcmcia slot
* IDE slot for standard HDD (at least 20gb, maybe larger
* built-in mic
* vga, ps/2, serial, floppy ports on port replicator


Disadvantages:

* Bigger, uglier, heavier (might "fit" in a large enough pocket, but only barely)
* 32mb RAM standard + 32mb additional (hard to find)
* No native USB (you'll need to use a PC slot)
* Aging hardware

Latest Windows supported are: Win98 and NT4 (both will be pretty slow)

The port replicator will give you lots of extra options, but at added cost and bulk
(bringing you closer to the range of the mini-notebooks)

The age of the hardware may be a problem-
the old Toshiba plastic housing gets brittle and cracks;
on a 6+ year old machine, its definitely going to be an issue.
I would be afraid to use a 6+ year old battery - if you can't find
a GOOD source of fresh, compatible battery cells, you can probably
assume the built-in one will be flat.
Good, fresh batteries, from a reliable source may cost as much as a 6yr old Libretto.

You will probably not be able to find a warranty for one,
should it need repairs, you'll likely have to replace,
or scavenge for parts and do the work yourself.

Repairs for Zauruses may be tough, but you CAN buy one from a Local vendor
who CAN offer some sort of warranty.

That being said, if Toshiba today managed to stuff a "modern" PC guts into an
old-Libretto style package, it'd be not merely an OQO and a Zaurus killer,
but one heck of a powerhouse.

(cpu: 700mhz, ram: 128mb, onboard USB, CF or PCMCIA, at bare minimum. Still way-underspec by today's PC standards, but sufficient to do most of what many of us would like from a handheld)

The Libretto U100 is much of that, but you won't find it in the $300 range,
and is mini-notebook sized (much bigger than any of the previous)
icruise
This Vaio is probably closer to the original Libretto than the U100. I'm not sure if it was ever available outside of Japan, though.
raduga
Summary:

If you want a modern handheld that can run windows: OQO - Not cheap
If you want a cheap handheld that can run windows: Libretto CT - Not modern
If you want a modern, cheap handheld: Zaurus - No Windows
If you want a modern small PC: Libretto U series - Not cheap, not handheld

If you want a modern, cheap PC that will run anything, get a standard laptop.

If you want ponies, and kitties, and a HAL-9000 in your pocket,
get a pony, a kitty, and a HAL-9000, but keep away from Europa.
InSearchOf
If he is indeed referring to the old style Libretto...

I would choose the Zaurus in a heartbeat...

Old Hardware
No Warranty
No (Onboard) USB
Iffy Battery Life
32meg Standard - 64meg max
Bulky-Ness

For me any combo of 3 of the above turns me off...

Once again I would chose the Z... come on join the family
Z_Attorney
Yep, I was referring to the very old Librettos. 6 year old hardware is too prone to failure and the data it would have on it is too important. I'm convinced that a C1000 is what I want. I'm currently eyeing pricejapan...

Thanks to all who replied!
Meanie
QUOTE(Z_Attorney @ Apr 26 2006, 06:29 AM)
Yep, I was referring to the very old Librettos.  6 year old hardware is too prone to failure and the data it would have on it is too important.  I'm convinced that a C1000 is what I want.  I'm currently eyeing pricejapan...

Thanks to all who replied!
*


don't look down on those old librettos. i got 70ct since 97 and its still working. damn good units. i replaced the harddisk with a bigger 40GB one but that's it. the battery is a bit worn now and only lasts an hour but that's ok with me since its now permanently plugged in to the wall socket and is serving as my mini web server. the battery is just like a UPS smile.gif
but yeah, the zaurus is smaller and has more features. i absolutely love my two zauri.
the new 3200 even has 6GB microdrive. if only it didnt have such a weird colour combo...
DaemonsGR
QUOTE(icruise @ Apr 24 2006, 06:26 PM)
This Vaio is probably closer to the original Libretto than the U100. I'm not sure if it was ever available outside of Japan, though.
*



When I went to Japan to buy my Z i was about to buy one of these for about 85000-90000Yen smile.gif Very good piece smile.gif
ShiroiKuma
QUOTE(drnick @ Apr 24 2006, 04:14 PM)
It does run linux well....extremely well.  The only thing I cant get working is the bluetooth.  Theres a kernel patch for it but its only for 2.6.11.  And the Authentec fingerprint scanner has a $500 SDK so its unsupported too.  Other than that it is most fantasic.  Even at only 1.2GHz its really snappy under linux.
*

Is there a step-by-step guide for linux on the U100?

I've been thinking of buying it, but haven't found a concise Linuxization how-to for the U100.
enodr
QUOTE(ShiroiKuma @ Apr 26 2006, 02:06 AM)
Is there a step-by-step guide for linux on the U100?

I've been thinking of buying it, but haven't found a concise Linuxization how-to for the U100.
*


I have U100 with Ubuntu Breezy installed (dual boot WinXP, Ubuntu). No need for an howto, Linux will install as on any laptop! Ubuntu even detected the good screen resolution on the first boot (it's 1280x768 not classical 1280x1024). Internal wifi card is an atheros, which means it's perfectly supported under linux (madwifi driver).

I never use bluetooth so I can't tell, and yes the only missing feature is a driver for the authentec fingerprint reader.

I you are interested I am selling it, it's brand new (Libretto U100-105 (PLU10E-009024FR) with DVDRom mini docking station).
chroafjd
QUOTE(enodr @ Apr 26 2006, 03:59 AM)
QUOTE(ShiroiKuma @ Apr 26 2006, 02:06 AM)
Is there a step-by-step guide for linux on the U100?

I've been thinking of buying it, but haven't found a concise Linuxization how-to for the U100.
*


I have U100 with Ubuntu Breezy installed (dual boot WinXP, Ubuntu). No need for an howto, Linux will install as on any laptop! Ubuntu even detected the good screen resolution on the first boot (it's 1280x768 not classical 1280x1024). Internal wifi card is an atheros, which means it's perfectly supported under linux (madwifi driver).

I never use bluetooth so I can't tell, and yes the only missing feature is a driver for the authentec fingerprint reader.

I you are interested I am selling it, it's brand new (Libretto U100-105 (PLU10E-009024FR) with DVDRom mini docking station).
*



The contributions here have certainly awaken my interest in the new U100. First some newbie questions, which one of you may kidly answer: Is Ubuntu another Linux distribution? Secondly, how easy is it to run Linux and Windows XP concurrently on the U100? In previous ocassions I could only install linux virtually on a Windows XP Pro machine.

I am trying to figure the installation scenario for a new U100. It will come out of the box with Windows XP Home installed. Do I just chuck a linux distribution into the CD drive, re-claim part of the HardDisk space for Linux and proceed with the Linux installation? I can't envisage things being as easy as that.

I'll be grateful for any response to the above questions.

Cheers,
Chroafjd
drnick
QUOTE(chroafjd @ Apr 29 2006, 12:14 PM)
The contributions here have certainly awaken my interest in the new U100. First some newbie questions, which one of you may kidly answer: Is Ubuntu another Linux distribution? Secondly, how easy is it to run Linux and Windows XP concurrently on the U100?  In previous ocassions I could only install linux virtually on a Windows XP Pro machine.

I am trying to figure the installation scenario for a new U100. It will come out of the box with Windows XP Home installed. Do I just chuck a linux distribution into the CD drive, re-claim part of the HardDisk space for Linux and proceed with the Linux installation? I can't envisage things being as easy as that.

I'll be grateful for any response to the above questions.

Cheers,
Chroafjd
*


Yes Ubuntu is another linux distro. Im running Ubuntu 6.06 on my libretto U100. Yes i do Dual Boot winXP and Linux. Don't bother with the XP that it comes with. It is full of unnecessary applications that use alot of resources. I bought a student copy of XP from my University bookstore and used the windows installer to make a 15gig partion for it. I installed windows on that partition. The toshiba website contains all of the drivers required to get all of the hardware working. Then I went to http://cdimages.ubuntu.com and downloaded the latest beta of 6.06. Using the Ubuntu partitoning utility i created an 8gig partion for /, 1gig for swap, and the remaining for /home. The Ubuntu installer will detect the windows MBR and install the grub boot loader over top. At boot you will beable to select windows or linux and boot appropriately. Wireless, video, network, all work out of the box.
kahm
I started off my small hardware obsession with a Libretto 110ct. (I had the Sharp 5000D and 5500 earlier, but they were more of a curiosity than really useful for me sad.gif )

I got a Libretto 50m because I hated the trackpoint on the libretto, but the lack of cardbus made it impossible to put USB on it.

Loving the touchscreen, I upgraded to a Panasonic Toughbook CF-1, which has cardbus, USB, and a touchscreen, all in a nice magnesium case. It remains the single most solidly built laptop I've ever seen. (I've seen 2 or 3 stories about these machines stopping bullets!) It definitely sacrifices the size aspect though - small as it is, it sure *isn't* a Libby. sad.gif

Told the Panasonic with me to Japan and got an 860. Never looked back, really, even though the 860 lacked the HD and USB host.

I've gone through a 3000 since, and I currently use a 3100, and there is no comparison to the Libby. The 3x00 will basically do pretty much anything that can be done on one of the old-style "VHS" Libbys. The newer ones are a different matter, but even then they aren't really the same.

The U100, I dearly want to get my hands on, though smile.gif
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