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Da_Blitz
Just post any hardware you want to see here and we will start discussing it

Suggested so far:
RFID - So far it looks like a No on thi s one, most people wont use it and thier are better ways to implement it
CIR/FIR - its in and alwas has been, should have the extended range that people want for TV
Abient light detector - unkown, there is a posibility but using the camera would be a better option as it has these built in for auto compinsation
Person detector - not feasiable but alternetives exsist
adf
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Jul 28 2006, 04:19 AM)
Just post any hardware you want to see here and we will start discussing it

Suggested so far:
RFID - So far it looks like a No on thi s one, most people wont use it and thier are better ways to implement it
*

are the current specs posted? if so where? I don't want to start going back over things decided on already.
oops..2 posts down.
Da_Blitz
Nothing really is laid in stone however refer to the faq post as that gives you a rundown of what is in it, i would consider that to be the minium or a bit more than the minimum at the moment
Ferret-Simpson
What do you mean the Minimum?

We're running out of I/O, internal physical space, and Battery power. XD

I'd say that was not the minimum but more the almost-limit. . . But sttill, post away any final requests, and I admit, RFID was a bad idea.
Da_Blitz
i dont think RFID is that bad however thier are 3 standards that are incompatiblo (as was pointed out) and it can be implemented in better ways

i dont belive RFID has been implemented well to begin with and has been hyped too much. then again i dont trust the goverment or a major company to implement anything in a secrue manner. smile.gif

almost limit: i guess however i have a strict set of features that i wont budge on, in terms of space compared to most PDAs i have seen we have lots left over providing we keep going for these all in one chips (the RPU, Wifi and Bluetooth are normally 2 or 3 chip designs)
Ferret-Simpson
Well, for the sake of throwing in extra hardware to at least discuss. . . Well, the only thing that hasn't either been officially rejected or included now. . is Serial. . Which seemed to mysteriously disappear.

Any chance of a Serial port for connecting to my Servers? That and an LED torch? (The Sony Erricson that I've been lent till I can get my new Universal has one which I find useful. .) Just a white LED beam torch. And obviously we won't be using a standard 9FD or DTE port. . . But some sort of RS232 IO onboard? That way I can use the PPZ as a Serial Terminal without having to hook up C3PO, my RS232<=>TCPIP translator unit.
wsuetholz
With regards to the display, I can't remember if this was asked before (and I don't want to go back through 29 pages worth of conversations), Is there anyway to get a source of the displays used in the Nokia 770, now that is a sweet display.

Bill
Ferret-Simpson
Too big. Not a "Pocket" device.

We're looking at the screen from the 6000, or as close as we can get to it.

ALSO a sweet display. ^^
Ferret-Simpson
Additional Audio socket for Nokia-Style headsets.

I got a couple of old-favourites that I don't wanna get rid of. My Bakelite Telephone for one.
adf
QUOTE(Ferret-Simpson @ Jul 28 2006, 02:22 PM)
Well, for the sake of throwing in extra hardware to at least discuss. . . Well, the only thing that hasn't either been officially rejected or included now. . is Serial. .  Which seemed to mysteriously disappear.

Any chance of a Serial port for connecting to my Servers? That and an LED torch? (The Sony Erricson that I've been lent till I can get my new Universal has one which I find useful.  .) Just a white LED beam torch. And obviously we won't be using a standard 9FD or DTE port. . . But some sort of RS232 IO onboard? That way I can use the PPZ as a Serial Terminal without having to hook up C3PO, my RS232<=>TCPIP translator unit.
*

why not just do a usb > serial adapter? the thing won't have any structural material left in the sides with all theses ports biggrin.gif
Ferret-Simpson
How would I access that from minicom?

/dev/ttyUS0 Or something like that?

Wait. . . There's a new Driver access system under 2.6.x, isn;t there?
Da_Blitz
We do have a spare ttl-serial port free but a usb option is a better idea as it does the 10v and -10v as well as protecting your PDA

yeah it shows up as /dev/ttyUSB0

works well smile.gif

an LED flashlight is an ekcelent idea, at the moment i just display a white background on the screen and pump up the backlight
Ferret-Simpson
Most of the mobile phones I've seen have one these days. . . Not sure how to implement it, it's usually a bank of 1mm LED's. . .I count 6 on the Sony Erricson. (3 on each side of the camera lense)
Da_Blitz
depends where we put it (pocking out the side or on the bottom) if its on the bottom a bank works best otherwise i would think a standard LED would be better
Ferret-Simpson
Well, on the side is more practical, as far as torches go. It's a case of comparative brightness though, I guess.
Tomoe
1) Some kind of body proximity and/or contact sensor, to determine if the machine's being held (close).

2) keyboard lightning as discussed, also light detector, which has many uses - activating keyboard lightning, setting the backlight level and so on. I guess it would be possible to use the near-screen mounted camera for this so it is more of a software issue then.
morrijr
Is IR still onboard? I'd love an all-in-one remote capability smile.gif I know there are two standards (one for data and one for remote control) could we support both? If not - I've never used the data one in my life wink.gif
Ferret-Simpson
I think the IR was still on, I just continually forget to put it in my hardware list. . . DB, if you could update it please?

As far as I know, with a standard IR port it's more a case of range, and software. After all, the Clie and other palms (Even my wristwatch) can do it, but only the clie has a powerful enough IR port to go the distance (About 3 or 4 metres, although the signal strength doesn't have to be huge at the other end)

So yeah, I doubt IR is likely to be used too often. . Being a VERY legacy device now that bluetooth is out. So it shouldn't be a worry to put in a more powerful port, in terms of battery life. use a similar "Beam recieve" program as found on the Zauri, and only activate automatically when sending data. That would work for IR control happily, as it doesn't need to be constantly on. (If you've ever held a TV remote in front of a cheap camcorder and pressed the button, you'll see the IR led only activates when the button is depressed)

With a good application, we could do well with that. . One advantage I saw before was the ability to learn codes. . . You add a new button to your onscreen remote, and the PDA begins to recieve data, then all you have to do is press the corresponding button on the remote control, and the PDA will record the code it recieves. A function like that, making the setup for the IRTVC wholly-GUI, and we have yet another thing, that linux does better than WM. (Windows Mobile PDA's need you to select a manufacturer and model, if I remember my Microsoft correctly - Same with the Sony Clie application.)
Da_Blitz
for the irda i belive you are talking about CIR, which is part of IRDA but only tells you to use a really powerfull transmitter, nothing more nothing less otherwise its FIR or fast infra red which goes up to 4mbps, there is also an industrial version that geos up to 16mbps but i havent seen it in a real product

i belive CIR and FIR are part of the design wink.gif i havent seen a bluetooth remote for my TV (but i have for mythtv)

for anything infra red realated (windows or linux) look up "lirc" it can simulate and recive any IR signal you can imagine
Da_Blitz
updated first post
Ferret-Simpson
A body-proximity sensor. . . That's a good question. . There'll be sevaral different ways to hold a PPZ, depanding on what you're doing with it, the orientation of it. . etc.

We'd either have to find a universal contact point where the sensor is always under pressure from the skin, or use a thermal method. . but thermal methods could be affected by other factors: room heating, internal heat production by electrical resistance. . .
Da_Blitz
i think the complexity kind of kills it, i belive that the best way is smart software that detects button pushes and starts a counter, when that counter hits zero it assumes you have walked away, it also activly monitors processors for some specific prcosses (say mplayer) that you will use but not interact with.

we can adapted the cpufreqd code in a way

i will added it to the list as "not feasiable but alternetives exsist"
speculatrix
OK, it's not 3G, but it's an interesting product - an entire cellphone in the area of (I guess) a CF card:

http://www.silabs.com/tgwWebApp/public/web...e/en/Si4905.htm
wsuetholz
Here is a (another?) source for the screens used in the 6000

Solar Technologies

Bill
Ferret-Simpson
On the screen: I don't think that's the same as the 6000, as it's not CGS. However, it IS exactly the specification we want (4" VGA Tansflex) So I say it's hopeful.

Before anyone reccomends that we drop the MCX300-30 for the GPRS chip, it still needs a stack to operate. So no go there. We might as well keep the separate chipset (RFX300-20) and continue as planned with the MXC based design.
Da_Blitz
yep thats another "compleate cell phone on a chip" with the DSP and the user stuff done on the same cpu, in fact you all you need to do is wire up a keypad, perhaps an sd card, anntenna and a battery and you have yourself a cell phone

pearsonnly i would love to see a phone that small without a screen that does audio over bluetooth only

that screen link is handy, it looks like they deal in surpluss as wel (i hope thats not thier primary source, think of the 6000's)
Da_Blitz
quick look aver that screen and that is definiattly a sharp product code (you can pick sharp from a mile away) and they have a touch screen option, the only thing i dont like is haw they want you to check for avalibility and dont have it on thier site leading me to think that it is surplus
morrijr
Has embedded GPS been discarded? (It might be useful to add things that have been discussed and discarded to the hardware list?) I know you can get GPS units which comunicate over bluetooth but, as always, having it onboard means one less thing to carry...
speculatrix
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Aug 1 2006, 08:00 AM)
yep thats another "compleate cell phone on a chip" with the DSP and the user stuff done on the same cpu, in fact you all you need to do is wire up a keypad, perhaps an sd card, anntenna and a battery and you have yourself a cell phone

pearsonnly i would love to see a phone that small without a screen that does audio over bluetooth only

that screen link is handy, it looks like they deal in surpluss as wel (i hope thats not thier primary source, think of the 6000's)
*


deep in my memory I remember there was an NEC phone that had no keyboard, microphone or speaker and was pretty small. hmmm, looks like it took a long time to come to market... here's the blurb:
http://www.mobile-weblog.com/50226711/cred...set_pops_up.php
speculatrix
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Aug 1 2006, 08:04 AM)
quick look aver that screen and that is definiattly a sharp product code (you can pick sharp from a mile away) and they have a touch screen option, the only thing i dont like is haw they want you to check for avalibility and dont have it on thier site leading me to think that it is surplus
*


I sent them an email as I want a replacement screen for my broken 6000, asking for prices for small numbers of them; no response so far at all.
koen
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Aug 1 2006, 09:39 AM)
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Aug 1 2006, 08:00 AM)
yep thats another "compleate cell phone on a chip" with the DSP and the user stuff done on the same cpu, in fact you all you need to do is wire up a keypad, perhaps an sd card, anntenna and a battery and you have yourself a cell phone

pearsonnly i would love to see a phone that small without a screen that does audio over bluetooth only

that screen link is handy, it looks like they deal in surpluss as wel (i hope thats not thier primary source, think of the 6000's)
*


deep in my memory I remember there was an NEC phone that had no keyboard, microphone or speaker and was pretty small. hmmm, looks like it took a long time to come to market... here's the blurb:
http://www.mobile-weblog.com/50226711/cred...set_pops_up.php
*



I see a microphone and speaker in that picture. A phone would be pretty useless without those IMO
Ferret-Simpson
Yeah, the GPS got dropped. Just as a note, we still need the External Aerial outputs. . .
speculatrix
QUOTE(koen @ Aug 1 2006, 11:56 AM)
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Aug 1 2006, 09:39 AM)

deep in my memory I remember there was an NEC phone that had no keyboard, microphone or speaker and was pretty small. hmmm, looks like it took a long time to come to market... here's the blurb:
http://www.mobile-weblog.com/50226711/cred...set_pops_up.php
*


I see a microphone and speaker in that picture. A phone would be pretty useless without those IMO
*



yeah, like I said, it was a LONG time ago when I first heard of the NEC concept - it was going to be totally reliant on a headset (I found a link but it's not relevant any more). They clearly changed their mind, going for a soft keyboard.

anyway, this is off topic. I know you guys want 3G, but would 2.5G be OK? In which case the Wavecom modules GS64 or GR64 might be suitable?
http://www.wavecom.com/modules/movie/scene...ficationsSheets
speculatrix
well, what do you know, the 3G data problem seems to have been resolved by the arrival of a USB dongle:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/01/vo...hsdpa_3g_modem/
Ferret-Simpson
Vodafone only. Which means UK and Japan. . .

I still think that the integrated 3G modem is the best way to go. EVEN if we have to license a stack. This way we can do alot of stuff that we wouldn't be able to do otherwise. To use a module-based modem would mean that we'd have to have the iMX running all the time to wait for incoming calls. . . Chips like the MXC which are designed for it, take up alot less power. . .
Da_Blitz
we have vodaphone here in australia

the only thing i am really aiming for is compatability with the austrialian networks as that is all i have to test it with smile.gif

quick anyone remeber if wavecomm is open source friendly, 2.5g is alright however the definition of 2.5g is diffrent between some people, for me its gsm+gprs but wikipedia does mention EDGE in there as well

looks like those were modules, and there site is not what i would call friendly. it seems they are a large bulk only manufacturer

QUOTE
I still think that the integrated 3G modem is the best way to go. EVEN if we have to license a stack. This way we can do alot of stuff that we wouldn't be able to do otherwise. To use a module-based modem would mean that we'd have to have the iMX running all the time to wait for incoming calls. . . Chips like the MXC which are designed for it, take up alot less power. . .


not true at all, we can just wake the iMX up by an external interupt, if we are using the serial port then that should be built into the serial port hardware

modules are fine however they will add bulk and i then have to design around them rather than slapping everything in the best posible spot, from what i gather those moudles are huge but i assue its a perspective thing (and the fact i havent read the datasheet yet
Craigms
With reguards to the LCD, I think we should be looking at widescreen (800x480) panels, such as the ones iRiver is using in their G10 in their hand held video players, as many people will undoubtably be using it for playing videos (and most are widescreen nowdays).
Da_Blitz
it all comes down to what we can get, if you can find a supplier (not a surpluss dealer) then i will consider it, so far i think we have had only one link that i would even consider with the rest bieng links to surpluss dealers that might not have the part in 3 months time

remeber that the larger the screen the more power it takes to drive it as well as cpu time and ddr bus time. it is slightly slower for palying video and games because of this and it tends to be larger
speculatrix
do we need an LCD when we could use one of these:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials...scellphones.php

smile.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(Ferret-Simpson @ Aug 1 2006, 01:57 PM)
Yeah, the GPS got dropped. Just as a note, we still need the External Aerial outputs. . .
*


could we consider adding back the GPS?
http://www.cieonline.co.uk/cie2/articlen.a...d=1272&id=14104
speculatrix
Is there room for a universal digital TV receiver?
http://www.cieonline.co.uk/cie2/articlen.a...d=1272&id=14073

OK, maybe this is a bit big for a PDA, but it would be a nice module for the deskpenguin!
Ferret-Simpson
Better to leave that out, because those who don't use it may still get picked up by the TV licensing guys just for having one. Seriously. Those guys are more devious than Steve Jobs.
Da_Blitz
i have no idea what you are refering to, i belive that it has to do with recording free to air, which is legal (at least here in australia it is)

i really dont want to deal with upstarts, however there may be an advantage to diong so, i was hoping to stick with the one manufactutrer (look at the infeon GPS chips)

i would love to chuk that display module in, it would be like a futristic vt102 terminal, green as well smile.gif

with the amount of RF stuff on there i dont want to touch the DVB stuff, however if we do want an DVB chip then i suggest we start by seeing what linux supports that is USB compatible (just get the linux source code) and work from there, at least in a pinch we can unsolder the chip and solder it onto the PP

actually that brings up a good point, why dont i look and see what is supported in the kernel to reduce developer time, make sense to me smile.gif
Da_Blitz
the union FS wont be too hard, in my opinion the setup in konoppix is overly complicated

what we really need is "overlays" in the kernel allowing wore than one filesystem to be mounted in the same spot (eg have 2 filesystems mounted on /) and have them merged automagically instead of the symlink hell that konoopix uses (havent used it scince 3.9 so correct me if i am worng, i assume that all folders except /mnt are symlinked into /mnt/<rw root> with a ro file system on /mnt/<ro root> and there is another /mnt/<w root> that is a tmpfs folder, with the 2 merged into /mnt/<rw root>

there might be a trick where we can chroot into the rw root but i bet there is somthing that will stuff up.
desertrat
QUOTE(Ferret-Simpson @ Aug 31 2006, 03:04 PM)
... because those who don't use it may still get picked up by the TV licensing guys just for having one.


QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Sep 1 2006, 01:23 PM)
i have no idea what you are refering to, i belive that it has to do with recording free to air, which is legal (at least here in australia it is)


In the UK, the non-commercial TV channels, ie BBC, is funded by the TV license. Every household that owns a TV has to pay an annual fee (regardless of whether they actually watch the BBC channels). So to clamp down on the TV cheats, there are fleets of detector vans that sit outside of homes that have not paid the TV license and they point some sort of receiver into the lounge area of the house hoping to pickup the secondary radiation from the TV screens. This apparently can give a good enough image that they can tell whether you are watching broadcast TV, if they catch you doing so without having paid the license you're in B-I-G trouble smile.gif
Ferret-Simpson
So, since Broadcast TV is also on DVB-T, they catch me, I'm frooked. It's unlikely, but I'm not risking it. Save the USB port and use it for something else, the DVB-T will have better signal and be cheaper if you just use a £50 commercial USB adaptor.
Da_Blitz
thats.... a..... bit..... wierd......

anyway we will be using an LCD screen so eric van phreaking radiation should be low enogh that it cant be read from a distance, not to mention the metal in this case would help block the signals

not only that consider that you will be mobile.

also if you dont want it then dont order it in your final design, nice and simple that is if we put it in
adf
I hadn't really been able to conjure the right image....I keep seeing jackbooted tv police hauling off grannies from illicit tea n telly parties...... not rally an image one associats with england
speculatrix
QUOTE(adf @ Sep 3 2006, 05:10 AM)
I hadn't really been able to conjure the right image....I keep seeing jackbooted tv police hauling off grannies from illicit tea n telly parties......  not rally an image one associats with england
*


TV licensing in the Uk is now no longer run directly by the gov't, but the people who do resort to many bullying tactics - they send REALLY nasty letters, usually with big red fonts saying "your house is under surveillance for not having a license", making it clear there's a GBP2000/US$3500 fine (maximum in small letters; in practise it's 100 - 200 for a first offence), and basically making people afraid to not have one even if (like me) you don't have an aerial/tuner nor want to watch the "idiot lantern".

Anyway, we're well off the topic now. Normal programming will be resumed...
koen
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Sep 3 2006, 12:49 AM)
eric van phreaking radiatio
*


"van Eck radiation" or "van Eck phreaking"
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