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zmiq2
Ceratinly this is going to be my next zaurus !

http://www.i4u.com/article7020.html
InSearchOf
It is can be easily hacked to run linux... yes...

Late
Capn_Fish
I don't think that this is in the same category as a Zaurus (for me, at least). It's too large to fit in a pocket. It does look pretty nice, however.
speculatrix
I have sent messages to conics and pricejapan to see if they can get hold of them. I'll post results.
HoloVector
Looks interesting but, it is not a Zaurus replacement for me. It's too big for me and I'll bet the battery life bites. I tried replacing my Psion 3a with a Libretto 50ct a few years back. That was a disaster. You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it. biggrin.gif
Antikx
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Nov 6 2006, 10:05 AM)
You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.  biggrin.gif
*

Amen. Technology shouldn't slow us down.
That's why I love the old Tandy Model 10X's!
speculatrix
indeed... this is why I still use a Palm T3 as a PIM.
raduga
QUOTE(Antikx @ Nov 6 2006, 08:15 AM)
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Nov 6 2006, 10:05 AM)
You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.  biggrin.gif
*

Amen. Technology shouldn't slow us down.
That's why I love the old Tandy Model 10X's!
*



Eeh.

My TRS-80 CoCo was instant-on too.
(it might take 5-10 minutes to load things up from tape, mind you...)
adf
I go back and forth on these mini laptops. It is definitely cool. It definitely won't fit in my pocket, but will take up little, or no, more space in my bag than my z + accessories. Maybe this +smartphone is a solution? But then laptop +smartphone has been the typical approach in the US.

What it boils down to is whether to compare this to a zaurus or a larger small laptop. Pricewise (it said something like starting at $750) it is more reasonable than other big small devices, and only mrginally higher than a basic laptop.

Today, I like my Z and wouldn't trade it for something not pocketable. tomorrow maybe I'll want a standard x86 distro and leave the embedded porting issues behind...
HoloVector
QUOTE(raduga @ Nov 6 2006, 11:25 AM)
QUOTE(Antikx @ Nov 6 2006, 08:15 AM)
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Nov 6 2006, 10:05 AM)
You never know how important instant on and a long battery life is until you don't have it.  biggrin.gif
*

Amen. Technology shouldn't slow us down.
That's why I love the old Tandy Model 10X's!
*



Eeh.

My TRS-80 CoCo was instant-on too.
(it might take 5-10 minutes to load things up from tape, mind you...)
*




Umm. The traditional definition of Instant on refers to a feature where the device basically remembers the previous state when the unit is turned back on. It does this by keeping the processor, real time clock and memory powered while the rest of the unit is powered down. The CoCo did not have instant on capabilities which is why you needed to load programs when you turned it back on. The Tandy Model 10X's had a more limited Instant on functionality then listed above but it did have the feature.
Cyberdoc1971
Looks like one of the UMPC's that have a lot of promise, but not too sure of the form factor - I've gotten so used to the size of my C3100.
speculatrix
more news about the SA1F00A on aki' news:

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-12751...nformation.html

* 500MHz AMD GEODE CS5536 CPU
* 40GB hard disk
* 512MB of RAM
* 7” display, with a resolution of 800x480
* SD and CF port
* Wi-Fi
* Bluetooth
* weight 960g
* case can withstand a 100kg pressure
* measures 218x163x25.4mm

should be available in December for 670.00 euro

-- edit --
contrast this with the Z:
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/Sharp-Zaurus-C3200.htm
"4.9 x 3.4 x 1.0 inches (124 x 87 x 25mm). Weight: 10.5 ounces (298 grams)", i.e. 3200 is quarter of the area (same thickness) slightly less than third of the weight.
Da_Blitz
actually i saw this today and was rather imressed, i didnt think the umpc design would ever get that thin (makes me think twice about the pocket penguine idea)

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/samsung...s-xp-at-75-mph/
speculatrix
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Nov 7 2006, 12:21 PM)
actually i saw this today and was rather imressed, i didnt think the umpc design would ever get that thin (makes me think twice about the pocket penguine idea)

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/samsung...s-xp-at-75-mph/
*


I saw that too. very sexy. seems to be wimax only, no wifi, and I can't tell if EV-DO means it's got 3G/W-CDMA functionality or not.
zmiq2
It has cf, so I can re-use my great amount of zaurus-cf accessories: bluetooth, wifi, gprs, eternet, modem.
speculatrix
I got a reply from Brett at conics...
QUOTE
looks like it will be shipping from start of December, we are waiting for the company to get back to us with prices...

unfortunately, usually these small companies have little or no reduction in price for resellers, (oqo and flybook are like that)
so I'm guessing price will probably be approx 89,800 yen + 2000yen local shipping + 5% (our fee) + 6000 yen (approx EMS insured postage)


so a total of 103000 yen approx, or US$875; GBP460; EU685.

not quite such a zaurus killer, or still a bargain? Well, conics sell Z 3200 for US$500-ish, so it's quite a price premium.

anyway, it's available for order at Conics now. do shout if you buy one. if anyone wins the lottery and wants to buy me one too so I can help get linux working on it, do PM me smile.gif
clofland
This looks realy cool to me. I paid $750 for my SL-C760 a little over three years ago, so $875 isn't a big premium compared to what I paid. A device that can run XP or Linux would be really appealing to me. I can't even VPN into my company, or check my work email via the web from a Linux machine. sad.gif

Like someone else said, it really wouldn't take much more space in my bag than the Z+stuff, and with the buit in USB (keyboard/mouse) and VGA out (monitor), it really could be my "only computer."
HoloVector
QUOTE(clofland @ Nov 8 2006, 10:19 AM)
..... I can't even VPN into my company, or check my work email via the web from a Linux machine. sad.gif  ......

*

Geez, clofland it sounds like we are working for the same company. dry.gif
Everytime I bring this up with the IT higher ups; I get shot down. Very frustrating. mad.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(clofland @ Nov 8 2006, 05:19 PM)
I can't even VPN into my company, or check my work email via the web from a Linux machine. sad.gif
*


is that because you haven't got a working vpn client for the Z, or because the corporate policy is not to allow non-windows or non-corporate devices?
kahm
This thing is almost exactly the same size as my Libretto U100 - but it has the touchscreen. I'm seriously tempted to pick one up to check it out.

(The no-touchscreen aspect of my Libby bugs me, as does the substandard keyboard. This new device has basically everything I could ask for in the same size package...)
Cresho
can you run linux on it though!!!!! how long is battery life? is it touch screen?
kahm
QUOTE(Cresho @ Nov 8 2006, 01:47 PM)
can you run linux on it though!!!!!  how long is battery life?  is it touch screen?
*


Linux - Yes. The Geode series processors are 100% X86 compatible. How well linux runs will come down to driver support, like it always does.

Battery Life - Likely not too bad. The LX800 processor is an extremely low power unit designed for the embedded market:
LX 800@0.9W: clock speed: 500 MHz, with power consumption: 1.3 watts. (from wikipedia). There may be performance issues - the Geode processors have never been known for their screamingly fast number crunching sad.gif

Touch Screen: Of course it is - it's a convertable tablet.

*EDIT* Apparently it is NOT a touchscreen device. Buggerbuggerbuggerbuggerbugger. Seems that I won't be replacing my Libretto quite yet...
BarryW
QUOTE(kahm @ Nov 8 2006, 01:07 PM)
*EDIT* Apparently it is NOT a touchscreen device. Buggerbuggerbuggerbuggerbugger. Seems that I won't be replacing my Libretto quite yet...
*



Then what's the point of it being convertible!!?? Freaking morons... Got my hopes up too.
speculatrix
so, you can turn it into tablet, but then you'd have to use an external mouse or some handheld trackball to control it?

d'uh!
kahm
It has a pointing stick on the side of the screen - so an external mouse isn't required.
chyang
The spec:
http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sa/spec.html
It seems to be an interesting machine, what I wonder is the real performance.
conicsnet
QUOTE(chyang @ Nov 9 2006, 04:05 PM)
The spec:
http://www.kohjinsha.com/models/sa/spec.html
It seems to be an interesting machine, what I wonder is the real performance.
*


rough English translation
here


regards,
-Brett
BarryW
http://www.dynamism.com/sa1/main.shtml
freizugheit
The specs sound good, but I have not heard about the company and its product quality.

Let's wait and see.

With recent breakthrough of porting Mac OS X onto X86, my dream of having Mac OS X running on such small device will be very near.

Please note that current visualization software, like Parallels, allows installation of Windows XP and Vista, Linux on top of Mac OS X. By then, I have all popular OSes on one machine.
speculatrix
hmm, dynamism say it IS a touch screen. so, who's right?
Snappy
There are two built-in mouse input device ... touchpad and pointing stick on the left side of the screen.

No touchscreen. Otherwise, it would be ideal.
TsingTao
Well, I emailed Dynamism about these things a couple days ago, they replied that they would look into it. Now they're available for pre-order.

Way to go Dynamism!

I emailed Japan-Direct.com the same day, let's see if they can beat D's $999 price tag.
zmiq2
There's a review about this unit unit at pc.watch.impress.co.jp.

For us japanese-less people, here's the google-translated link, which doesn't help much:

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%...n&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Can any japanese speaking guy confirm whether or not it's a touchscreen ?
kopsis
I don't speak Japanese, but it's definitely not a touchscreen. I went through the spec page and machine translated all the "footnotes". Footnote #10 on the "Double pointing device" seems pretty clear (even in its machine translated form):

QUOTE
10. (1) touch pad (the substance front), (2) stick pointer (on LCD side side with scroll button and mouse button arrangement).


The lack of a touch screen is actually a pro in my book. No need for screen protectors, no XP Tablet edition nonsense, and one less custom hardware device standing in the way of a Linux port.

For me the only negative of this slick little micro notebook is what Engadget refers to as the "scrolleriffic 800 x 480" LCD. But that's still 25% more screen real estate than my C760, and in a much less eyestrain inducing size. I hate to say it, but I think my Z's days may be numbered.
Tomoe
I checked the original review in Japanese, and indeed it does not have a touchscreen. Major minus. Other than that, I'd be ditching the Zaurus in favor of this machine + HTC Hermes combo in a second.
zmiq2
I would move to this machine (linux_installed) + new_FIC_linux_hackable phone !! That's a win-win !
drnick
Price Japan may be everyones best bet.

rakuten.co.jp lists the SA1F00A @ 89,800.00 JPY = 760.081 USD
Antikx
I wouldn't ditch my Zaurus for this but I would use it as my primary laptop at work.
speculatrix
I've been using a Sony TX2 for a little while now and runs linux very well (sony had a fit of madness and put an SD card slot in it too), so much so that I'm probably going to make an offer and keep it. It's got SO much integrated in it that you don't need a great big bag to carry things, just a modem cable and ethernet! The *only* thing which could make it better would be TV-out and tablet mode with touch screen. Thus, I don't think I'll be trading to this one, as I've got a C3100 on its way to me, but maybe its successor will have touchscreen.

I still think a C3500W = C3200 with 512M RAM and Wireless would be a simple but HUGE win.
kopsis
The TX2 looks like a sweet laptop, but at $2K+ we're talking about a whole different class of device. There are probably lots of Z alternatives if "money is no object". The more interesting question is: if you cap the price at around that of an SL-3200 ($600 - $700 including accessories), what are the alternatives?

I use my Z mainly as an ultra-portable thin client. Hardware wise I need WiFi, Bluetooth, and a keyboard. Software wise I need a full web browser, email, VNC, SSH, IM, a good text editor (Vim), a basic spreadsheet, and a bash shell. The Kohjinsha is the first gadget I've seen since Sharp introduced the clamshell series that seems to meet all those requirements at anything even close to the Z's price.

How about it? Are there other gadgets I should be considering that meet the above criteria and are a) still in production, B) under $900? Or are Sharp and Kohjinsha the only other games in town?
speculatrix
QUOTE(kopsis @ Nov 14 2006, 07:13 PM)
The TX2 looks like a sweet laptop, but at $2K+ we're talking about a whole different class of device. There are probably lots of Z alternatives if "money is no object". The more interesting question is: if you cap the price at around that of an SL-3200 ($600 - $700 including accessories), what are the alternatives?
*


before people assume I'm rich, I got my TX2 discounted as remaindered shop-soiled stock now that the TX3 is out... paid much much less than that. It's about as small as you can get before it fails to be a laptop and fails to be an oversized PDA. I'm wondering whether this Kohjinsha would fail to be either PDA or laptop, especially with lack of touchscreen. I carry a gadget bag, a small camcorder bag, with me most of the time, contains my digicam, Palm, Zaurus, accessories etc; if the Kohjinsha was too big, I could see myself leaving it at home too often.

There's also the issue of using it at work. People are allowed to use PDAs, but not personal laptops, so the Z escapes attention (other than as a "wow" gadget), but the K would almost certainly not.

Probably, it'd come down to individual tastes. Perhaps the reality is that until we get roll-up screens so that you can have something as small as a Z which unfolds/unrolls to an 8" display, there's not going to be a perfect device.

Sorry about the long stream of consciousness.
fpp
QUOTE(kopsis @ Nov 14 2006, 10:13 AM)
The TX2 looks like a sweet laptop, but at $2K+ we're talking about a whole different class of device. There are probably lots of Z alternatives if "money is no object". The more interesting question is: if you cap the price at around that of an SL-3200 ($600 - $700 including accessories), what are the alternatives?
I use my Z mainly as an ultra-portable thin client. Hardware wise I need WiFi, Bluetooth, and a keyboard. Software wise I need a full web browser, email, VNC, SSH, IM, a good text editor (Vim), a basic spreadsheet, and a bash shell. The Kohjinsha is the first gadget I've seen since Sharp introduced the clamshell series that seems to meet all those requirements at anything even close to the Z's price.
How about it? Are there other gadgets I should be considering that meet the above criteria and are a) still in production, cool.gif under $900? Or are Sharp and Kohjinsha the only other games in town?
*

I believe a Nokia 770 tablet with a BT keyboard would meet your requirements quite well, for less than half your upper limit, with the screen resolution of the Kohjinsha and the form factor of a Z.

Before you throw up your arms in indignation, let me just state that I was myself a diehard clamshell-with-keyboard fan for almost ten years, with several Psion Series5 models and a Z760. I allowed myself to be tempted by the 770's low price, but found over the past year that what I bought as a gadget has become the most extensively used of all the mobile devices I've tried.

I was surprised to find that the lack of integrated keyboard wasn't after all the nuisance I expected it to be, and that I actually use the separate BT keyboard less often than I thought I would. The screen, onboard Wifi and BT are what really count.

Of course, if we could have a standalone, BT version of the Psion5's keyboard, things might be different :-)
mars
QUOTE(fpp @ Nov 14 2006, 10:11 PM)
I believe a Nokia 770 tablet with a BT keyboard would meet your requirements quite well, for less than half your upper limit, with the screen resolution of the Kohjinsha and the form factor of a Z.


You know what, based on kopsis' requirements, fpp seems to be right! Dang, I may have to go dust off my770 and take another look.
nilch
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?

Maybe I could also live with a 770 with a keyboard as a replacement. The Kohjinsha, while it looks great is just a tad above the price limit I would afford for a smallish device. And until linux is proven to run on it will hold off.

That is another point I have noticed - that all Zaurus replacements are more of a Desktop Linux machine in a small size unlike the Zaurus which was embedded Linux. Which makes me think that to prep myself up for such a full fledged linux machine , maybe I should switch to PDAXROM and get a taste of desktop like linux on a small package.
Da_Blitz
i belive i am currentlly in the market for a Z replacment as the compiling issues are a PITA. the new sony UMPC looks good but what do others thing about the OQO and other UMPC,s on the market. personally they are a bit big (at least a Z will fit in my pocket) but they nearly all have wifi, bluetooth, USB and VGA out
adf
QUOTE(nilch @ Nov 15 2006, 02:34 AM)
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?

Maybe I could also live with a 770 with a keyboard as a replacement. The Kohjinsha, while it looks great is just a tad above the price limit I would afford for a smallish device. And until linux is proven to run on it  will hold off.

That is another point I have noticed - that all Zaurus replacements are more of a Desktop Linux machine in a small size unlike the Zaurus which was embedded Linux. Which makes me think that to prep myself up for such a full fledged linux machine , maybe I should switch to PDAXROM and get a taste of desktop like linux on a small package.
*

That is kind of an issue for me.... if I am going to spend @ $750 us for a pint sized laptop with a really slow processor that won't fit in my pocket, why wouldn't I spend about $200 less for a regular commercial laptop with a 14" screen and a much more powerful processor/ peripheral set (and a full sized keyboard)? I mean if I already have to carry the bag, why not save the $$ and get the performance? an extra battery would help with the battery life issues.....

I like the idea of a tiny low powered laptop, I do. but I'm not sure if it makes sense for me.
ZDevil
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Nov 15 2006, 06:18 AM)
i belive i am currentlly in the market for a Z replacment as the compiling issues are a PITA. the new sony UMPC looks good but what do others thing about the OQO and other UMPC,s on the market. personally they are a bit big (at least a Z will fit in my pocket) but they nearly all have wifi, bluetooth, USB and VGA out
*


One good thing about this Kohjinsha is the low power consumption compared to the still power-sucking UMPCs.
Then again, for me pocketability (i mean it literally) is one of the major factors to pick a mobile device. smile.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(nilch @ Nov 15 2006, 03:34 AM)
Talking about the 770, what happened to the 2nd iteration of the 770 that was rumoured/suposed to be coming soon ?
*


turned out to be a misinformed rumour about the 330 GPS unit.
kopsis
I do like the Nokia 770. In fact I have one on order to use as part of a demo I'm working on. However, I don't see where the 770 does much that my C760 doesn't. Anything that's going to replace my Z (at least prior to the day when it eventually breaks) needs to offer something more such as a bigger screen, better software compatibility (i.e. x86 based), huge hard drive, etc. The 770's built-in WiFi is nice, but not enought to compell a switch.

I don't need pocketable ... I don't pocket my Z as it is (my smartphone covers all my PIM and "walking around" computing needs). I've tried the conventional laptop approach but even a 13" MacBook is a bit bigger/heavier/hotter than what I really want -- and it's definitely way overpowered for the apps I need. It just seems wrong to crank up a multi-GHz Core2 Duo just to take notes in a meeting.

I like the UMPCs but the prices just seem outrageous. And they too pack much more horsepower than what I really need. I guess I'm really just after a slightly larger form-factor (bigger KB and display) Zaurus with built in wireless.
nilch
Talking about this perfect synergy of size, form-factor and power and pocketability,
I always thought the Sharp Zaurus SL-6000 size, with 4" outdoors viewable screen in the C1000 form factor of a tablet with the larger sized keyboard would have been perfect. Add internal Wifi to that (which the 6000 already had) would have been a great device.

They only needed to iterate the SL6000 once more in the tablet form factor - wishful thinking though. rolleyes.gif
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