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HoloVector
I finally acquired a copy from an Auction Broker in Japan. Thanks Azuma and Aya. Leaving the rest of the thread untouched due to the technical discussion below.

______________
Got a working copy of the Picsel Browser for Zaurus SD that's sitting in a drawer gathering dust?

If so, PM me and maybe we can maybe work something out. As I mentioned above I would prefer the 512MB SD 1.1.2 version if possible but, would consider the 256MB SD version if I didn't have a choice.

I am located in Canada.

Thanks for reading.
HoloVector
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 5 2007, 03:59 PM)
Got a working copy of the Picsel Browser for Zaurus SD that's sitting in a drawer gathering dust? 

If so, PM me and maybe we can maybe work something out.  As I mentioned above I would prefer the 512MB SD 1.1.2 version if possible but, would consider the 256MB SD version if I didn't have a choice. 

I am located in Canada.

Thanks for reading.
*

Wow! 42 views and no offers. sad.gif Here is my eBay profile. As you can see I have been on eBay for over 7 years and I have a 100% positive feedback.

I am willing to offer $120US for a working Picsel Browser for Zaurus 512MB version 1.1.2 card or $100US for a working Picsel Browser for Zaurus 256MB version 1.1.2 card or $80US for a working Picsel Browser for Zaurus 256MB with any previous version. Payment would be via PayPal.

So how about it? Anybody interested in the deal?
Jon_J
I'm not trying to get your hopes up, but I paid a lot more for picsel browser.
Since it's now discontinued, maybe someone will figure out how to separate it from it's SD card.
I'm NOT wanting to benefit from it's separation from it's SD card, but would love to use it without the SD card inserted.
That way I could use my SD card slot for a 4GB card.
I really hope you do find someone that's wanting to sell you their SD copy.
EDIT:
BTW, upgrading to 1.1.2 should be free, it was available on the web for a long time for free, (the upgrade, that is).
If you do manage to purchase a copy of Picsel Browser SD card from someone, just send me a pvt message, and I'll send you the 1.1.2 upgrade.
EDIT2:
I also don't write any files to this 512MB Picsel Browser card for fear I may wear out the SD card, and lose my "investment" in it.
HoloVector
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 5 2007, 03:59 PM) *
Got a working copy of the Picsel Browser for Zaurus SD that's sitting in a drawer gathering dust?

If so, PM me and maybe we can maybe work something out. As I mentioned above I would prefer the 512MB SD 1.1.2 version if possible but, would consider the 256MB SD version if I didn't have a choice.

I am located in Canada.

Thanks for reading.

Bumping this back up to the top because I am still looking for one of these.
speculatrix
QUOTE(Jon_J @ Jan 12 2007, 07:47 AM) *
Since it's now discontinued, maybe someone will figure out how to separate it from it's SD card.


I tried to create a chroot environment in which to run it and spoof the /proc and /sys entries to make it think that it was running with a valid card, but there was something else happening. When I ran it using strace or dbg it behaved totally differently, so I suspected it had anti-debug code in it somehow. I guess if I were really skilled I'd use the zaurus hardware emulator so picsel couldn't tell it was being debugged, and find out what it was doing to detect the card.
Capn_Fish
Couldn't you use dd to copy the picsel card to a new one (strictly for not wearing out the card)?
HoloVector
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Mar 5 2008, 07:25 PM) *
Couldn't you use dd to copy the picsel card to a new one (strictly for not wearing out the card)?

Panasonic was the one who put Picsel Browser on the SD card in the first place. The chances that undocumented tricks were used keep it wedded to the card are super high since Panasonic is one of the co-creators of the SD tech.

Here's the press release from Picsel that gives you some background:
http://www.picsel.com/index.php/mediacentre/casestudy/74/
pelrun
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 12:53 PM) *
The chances that undocumented tricks were used keep it wedded to the card are super high since Panasonic is one of the co-creators of the SD tech.


Any such shenanigans would have to directly access the PXA270 sd controller (which is nicely documented and limited to a few memory-mapped registers) so they'd stick out like a sore thumb...
speculatrix
QUOTE(pelrun @ Mar 6 2008, 05:08 AM) *
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 12:53 PM) *
The chances that undocumented tricks were used keep it wedded to the card are super high since Panasonic is one of the co-creators of the SD tech.


Any such shenanigans would have to directly access the PXA270 sd controller (which is nicely documented and limited to a few memory-mapped registers) so they'd stick out like a sore thumb...


background: I do not have a copy of picsel... but I do want one. I had a copy of someone else's purely for experimentation. various people offered checksums of their files and copies of "register" files from their Z.

I did all this some time ago so my memory may be wrong.

when I compared cksums of the binaries, they were the same for the same versions.

when I used strace, I found that it accessed the various bits of /proc and /sys which allowed it to read the card identifiers, which of course aren't in the card's file system. I created a chroot environment and made my own versions of those files using information given by owners. it still didn't work - picsel ran and I got a pop-up box telling me to insert a valid card. If I ran under strace, it never got that far, I think it segfaulted and either gdb was too slow or likewise it never got that far, just segfaults.

If I get cacko dual-booted again, I'd like to have another go... I'm still learning new tricks about linux so might have more success!
pelrun
Whereas I'd objdump it, find the "insert valid card" message and work backwards to find where it was triggered. Then nop that bit out. biggrin.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(pelrun @ Mar 6 2008, 12:01 PM) *
Whereas I'd objdump it, find the "insert valid card" message and work backwards to find where it was triggered. Then nop that bit out. biggrin.gif


I imagine, if picsel have any clue, the card check will be scattered through the code in different ways to prevent it being easy.

Has anyone ever actually come across an application which makes use of the "secure" in "secure digital card", using DRM to prevent file/music copying?
HoloVector
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 6 2008, 07:34 AM) *
QUOTE(pelrun @ Mar 6 2008, 12:01 PM) *
Whereas I'd objdump it, find the "insert valid card" message and work backwards to find where it was triggered. Then nop that bit out. biggrin.gif


I imagine, if picsel have any clue, the card check will be scattered through the code in different ways to prevent it being easy.

Has anyone ever actually come across an application which makes use of the "secure" in "secure digital card", using DRM to prevent file/music copying?

My hunch is that is exactly what we are looking at in this situation. I think Picsel Browser is looking for information stored in the Protected Region of the SD Card.

Read this from the SD Card association itself (Section 4 is what you need to read) http://www.sdcard.org/about/memory_card/

Just look at the facts we know.
1) The Picsel case study says Panasonic were the ones who created the Picsel embedded SD cards for the Zaurus.
2) Panasonic is a co-creator of the SD Card standard.
3) The DRM technology in SD cards is licensed to the SD Card Association by 4C.
4) 4C is the DRM licensing company of multiple companies including Panasonic.
5) The DRM technology on SD Cards uses a Protected Region with a key stored in it. If the key can't be decrypted or found then playback is not allowed.

Based on these facts it would not be a stretch for Panasonic to extend the playback DRM to binary execution. It looks to me like the Picsel binary is looking for the encypted key in the Protected Region of the SD. If it can't find it, it won't allow the program to run. So the only way to make a backup copy of a Picsel SD card would be to decrypt the Protected Region on the original card. Pull out the key and place it into the Protected Region of another SD card.

What do you think?
speculatrix
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Based on these facts it would not be a stretch for Panasonic to extend the playback DRM to binary execution. I looks to me like the Picsel binary is looking for


we would have to hope picsel & panasonic have been very lazy and implemented security poorly if they have done that, it would require a major feat of reverse engineering to extract working code from a running system to get at any decrypted data and code.
HoloVector
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 6 2008, 11:52 AM) *
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 6 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Based on these facts it would not be a stretch for Panasonic to extend the playback DRM to binary execution. I looks to me like the Picsel binary is looking for


we would have to hope picsel & panasonic have been very lazy and implemented security poorly if they have done that, it would require a major feat of reverse engineering to extract working code from a running system to get at any decrypted data and code.

Agreed however since this excercise seems to have been a proof of concept for Panasonic, I highly doubt it was lazily or poorly implemented. I hope someone proves me wrong. wink.gif

Now, who wants to sell a copy of Picsel Browser to me? biggrin.gif
HoloVector
*BUMP*

I'm still looking for one of these. wink.gif
sdjf
Did this guy sell his?

http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...mp;#entry162505

Did you try posting at other forums where people ask picsel-browser questions and might have one? I'd PM or email the posters directly. Proactive may get it for you faster.

I did a search for following on google to turn up possibilities, may be ROM compatibility issues, maybe not, but maybe somebody has a zaurus version and doesn't read oesf:

picsel-browser problems OR need-help
HoloVector
QUOTE(sdjf @ Apr 20 2009, 06:16 AM) *
Did this guy sell his?

http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...mp;#entry162505

Did you try posting at other forums where people ask picsel-browser questions and might have one? I'd PM or email the posters directly. Proactive may get it for you faster.

I did a search for following on google to turn up possibilities, may be ROM compatibility issues, maybe not, but maybe somebody has a zaurus version and doesn't read oesf:

picsel-browser problems OR need-help


The short answer is no since, I'm still looking for one. wink.gif

He basically said I was the high bidder and how did I want to pay? I replied to him with my preferred payment method (from his list of choices) and asked for the full amount including shipping so I could send the payment to him. After that, silence. I sent him another reply asking if there was a problem 2 days later and heard nothing again from him. So I'm guessing he probably got a combined offer for the picsel with the C3000 he was selling at the same time. It would have been nice of him to reply to me and let me know that he had changed his mind about our deal instead of leaving me hanging like that.

Thanks for the tip but, I don't like being pestered by others with unsolicited offers for items in my possession (It happens to me alot in one of my other hobbies) so, I don't do that to others.

So I guess I have to go with the slow patient route. laugh.gif
teh.sean
All this talk about SD card distributed software makes me think about the new Nintendo DSi. I imagine that once Nintendo starts releasing DSi only software on SD there will be a lot more eyes on Panasonic's encryption. Oh well, time will tell!

You may have to wait a while yet holovector!
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