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Biggerfoot
As a Mac user, the new iPhone is a tempting replacement for my trusty 5500. I am looking forward to seeing it in person.
Capn_Fish
The clamshell Zs have 640x480 screens as well as keyboards. And they run Linux. I also like the option to switch ROMs, not that I have in a while. Linux seems to be a better fit on a handheld than OSX does as well. I just think that the Z is more flexible.

I personally don't like OSX or Apple, so pardon me if I'm being negative.

By the way, this probably should have been a poll.

Edit: For those of you who couldn't tell, I'm quite sure the iPhone won't replace my Z. Also, with it being a phone, there seems to be little chance of a working Linux OS for it any time soon.
HoloVector
It won't be replacing my Zs either. I am an OS X fan and I like the iPhone concept but, the screen resolution and the lack of USB Host or card slots are killing it for me.
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 9 2007, 04:17 PM)
It won't be replacing my Zs either.  I am an OS X fan and I like the iPhone concept but, the screen resolution and the lack of USB Host or card slots are killing it for me.
*


I forgot about those! USB host is really nice, but you really end up with only one card slot after you add in wireless.
HoloVector
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jan 9 2007, 03:24 PM)
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 9 2007, 04:17 PM)
It won't be replacing my Zs either.  I am an OS X fan and I like the iPhone concept but, the screen resolution and the lack of USB Host or card slots are killing it for me.
*


I forgot about those! USB host is really nice, but you really end up with only one card slot after you add in wireless.
*


Unless you performed surgery on a 1000 and added the wireless internally. biggrin.gif
clofland
"iPhone also introduces an entirely new user interface based on a large multi-touch display and pioneering new software, letting you control everything with just your fingers."

Sure is a fancy way of saying "we couldn't figure out how to put a keyboard on it so we'll let you smear your screen all up with your fingers." smile.gif

I'm not sure what this does that the Cingular 8525 couldn't do, other than use iTunes instead of URGE.

The biggest impact this will probably have is on the next release of Microsoft's mobile OS. wink.gif
speculatrix
hmm, makes for interesting comparisons with Nokia's N95 smartphone and the tablet N800.
nilch
I think, the iPhone is squarely in the category of a phone, with a PDA functionality added on. It just is a plain well designed phone. The Zaurus on the other hand is more of a PDA falling into the category of a mobile computer. The iPhone is certainly not a computer even if it has OSX under the hood.

That's because there is no keyboard for faster input, no USB host (a computer which accepts peripherals), no screen to allow real-world computing real-estate (i mean even those old PALMS with 20x20 or whatever screen resolution tried computing, but doing PIM apps aint computing really), no support for ROM switch to make it flexible and fit the computing task at hand. So certainly it can't replace the Zaurus.

I think comparing the iPhone with the Zaurus is a bit like comparing apples with oranges.

While on the other hand the Zaurus could not be called a phone (even it it had GSM radio on it). Tha't because its not built like a phone form factor and also various other reasons.

So the two just seem to be differet categories altogether.
Thats how I see it.
Da_Blitz
Actually i was quite impressed and am happy to see some pressure applied to the stock microsoft theme set that gets shipped, its plain ugly and has need a rehash for years

i cant wait to see linux running on it as it seems like a very solid unit, whoever apple seems to have done a very good job at polishing the interface, and i mean very good. i would class it as a mid range device however as it really seems to be lacking some of the top end features that power users like

aother thing i like is the lack of buttons and the fact that the touch screen can detect more than one pointer on the screen at once (great for games) which would open up some intresting posibilities (rotate pictures with 2 fingers, allowing you to change the point around which it rotates easily)

anyway apple seems to be keeping to the "keep it simple" pholosphy that has worked for so long, i feel this hurts some people in the long run but it cuts down on my tech support calls.

if i didnnt have my htc tytn then i would have considered this as my next phone, but i dont think it really competes except in terms of interface which once wisbar has been installed is less of an issue

time will tell
bluedevils
This may replace my Z in the category of a carry every where gadget (pda phone). I'll wait for the 3g version they say is coming (currently only edge) and I must be able to access the commandline. I'm curious as to the cpu and ram. I am disappointed with the screen resolution and battery time. For any serious keyboard input, I would hope you could use a bluetooth keyboard. The Z would just be relegated a portable computer.

Sure it doesn't have alot of things the Z has but has the things I like (phone, osx, internet, bluetooth, 4GB hdd, 2MB camera and unix/linux)
Cresho
It's a piece if shit...really!
BarryW
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jan 9 2007, 03:40 PM)
It's a piece if shit...really!
*



Damn dude, don't hold it in. Just tell us how you really feel! I kinda like it. Pretty slick, if it really works.
freizugheit
QUOTE
I personally don't like OSX or Apple, so pardon me if I'm being negative.


Capn Fish,

Have you used Apple products before?

What's wrong with OSX?
Cresho
lets see......4 gigs of space......+music +video=they are on crack!!!! so they expect me to buy online stuff and keep it in my phone? haha!

I would be believe 1 terabyte but 4 gigs? really....they think i'm stupid and totally insulting my intelligence.

It's like my levi's i been owning since I was in high school- They expect me to throw it away after use and buy a new one. Guess again.
kahm
Well, as far as a smartphone goes, it looks intriguing. Then again, I'm looking for an upgrade for my Treo 650 and was going to look into one of those linux smartphones with the VGA display. (And I just bought my first Mac today - a Macbook smile.gif )
HoloVector
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jan 9 2007, 09:18 PM)
lets see......4 gigs of space......+music +video=they are on crack!!!!  so they expect me to buy online stuff and keep it in my phone?  haha!

I would be believe 1 terabyte but 4 gigs?  really....they think i'm stupid and totally insulting my intelligence.

It's like my levi's i been owning since I was in high school- They expect me to throw it away after use and buy a new one.  Guess again.
*

No offence but, I'm not quite following you here. Our 3200s only have 6 gigs of space built-in. Are you insulted by Sharp, too? huh.gif smile.gif

Yes, you can add more through the SD slot but, by the time the iPhone ships the highest capacity you will be able to buy will be a 2GB SD for your Z thanks to SDHC. That gives you the exact same capacity as the high end iPhone. I know some of us have 4GB SD cards but, those are no longer being manufactured since the SDHC cards were released and stocks of them will surely dry up before June.

I'm not counting the CF slot in my 3200 because it spends most of the time with a network card of some sort stuck in it. And I believe that is how most people around here use their Zs as well.

Based on the pictures I saw the battery on the iPhone looks to be user replaceable unlike the iPods

Other than that to each his own. smile.gif

When I first saw the the 5000/5500 I had pretty much the same reaction as I did when I saw the iPhone today. Which was, "Cool gadget! I can't to see the version they'll release that has all the features I want. When that happens I will pick one up for sure." In the Zs case, I needed, clamshell, VGA screen, USB host, multi-gigs of storage, WiFi for less than a grand. Sharp
got almost all of that right except for the WiFi. Apple needs to provide me with the same wish list and I'll pick one. Although, I bet I have to give up on clamshell for the iPhone just like I gave up on WiFi for the Z. wink.gif
Cresho
I'll just say it once.

Let me know when you can just drag a file into that phone without it needing itunes or some other crap software and I would be very happy when that's available.

Other than that, it is total crap.


-----
on diff note....

Just the other day, I helped a buddy kick the ipod and went for the zen from creative(4-6 inch screen, 60gb hardisk). Sure it needs software but all we do is drag and drop video, music, pictures and it comes with a cf slot for pictures with usable adaptors for etc. media cards- simple.

my cuzin ran into a mini-ipod, ituns crashed like hell on my bro's pc---was total crap. The solution was to use winamp with plugin to make it run. It is just awesome without that bloated software. 4 diff pc's running that itunes totally sucks.

I really preffer using terminal or dos to transfer files over to my unit. Sometimes explorer or filebrowser without some company needing to put stupid software on my pc which causes tons of problems.

my nephews pc- I showed him a few tricks avoiding itunes totally and now all his friends and himself included use winamp to transfer files into ipod video along with videos done in xillisoft.

So there you have it. I love the product but the software is total pain in the butt!

phone looks gorgeous. best phone in the block..i may buy one but i want to look at it first. Believe me when i tell you ill be using it as a phone only.

can I run e17 on this? cool.gif
Antikx
QUOTE(nilch @ Jan 9 2007, 04:24 PM)
I think comparing the iPhone with the Zaurus is a bit like comparing apples with oranges.
*

Well put, and I agree.
Maybe we will find the iPhone to be fairly hackable telephone after it's been released, but the Zaurus is still in the PDA category... and sadly it is a dieing category. sad.gif
BarryW
QUOTE(Cresho @ Jan 9 2007, 08:09 PM)
I'll just say it once.

Let me know when you can just drag a file into that phone without it needing itunes or some other crap software and I would be very happy when that's available.

Other than that, it is total crap.


-----
on diff note....

Just the other day, I helped a buddy kick the ipod and went for the zen from creative(4-6 inch screen, 60gb hardisk).  Sure it needs software but all we do is drag and drop video, music, pictures and it comes with a cf slot for pictures with usable adaptors for etc. media cards- simple.

my cuzin ran into a mini-ipod, ituns crashed like hell on my bro's pc---was total crap.  The solution was to use winamp with plugin to make it run.  It is just awesome without that bloated software.  4 diff pc's running that itunes totally sucks.

I really preffer using terminal or dos to transfer files over to my unit.  Sometimes explorer or filebrowser without some company needing to put stupid software on my pc which causes tons of problems.

my nephews pc-  I showed him a few tricks avoiding itunes totally and now all his friends and himself included use winamp to transfer files into ipod video along with videos done in xillisoft.

So there you have it.  I love the product but the software is total pain in the butt!

phone looks gorgeous.  best phone in the block..i may buy one but i want to look at it first.  Believe me when i tell you ill be using it as a phone only.

can I run e17 on this?  cool.gif
*


You can barely run e17 on the Z.

I drag and drop music on my iPod all the time. Sure it uses iTunes, but I've never had a problem with it. My wife and her assistant both use iTunes on their pc's, never have a problem with it. I figure by the time I can get my hands on an iPhone, most of the bugs will have been worked out. Though I may never get one if they stick with just cingular. They aren't up here yet...
xjqian
does anybody have a detailed iphone specs?
Jon_J
From this thread at 1src:
http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=...94&postcount=26

Specs:

Screen size: 3.5 inches
Screen resolution: 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method: Multi-touch
Operating system: OS X
Storage: 4GB or 8GB
GSM: Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data: Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera: 2.0 megapixels
Battery

* Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
* Up to 16 hours Audio playback

Dimensions: 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight: 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
xjqian
Thanks, but those are already up there on Apple's website. I mean the specs of CPU, flash memory, etc that developers are interested.
danboid
This iphone, just like the Nokia N800, is another 'almost' but ultimately a failure in my eyes. If the Nokia N800 had been a clamshell with keyboard, internal HDD and proper USB host then that would've been a true successor to the c3x00 Z's. The iphones screen (res wise) and HD aren't big enough to make it a good video playback device and I'll bet it has all sorts of annoying DRM to stop you enjoying music properly on it.

On the other hand, the computing industries refusal to release a better clamshell device than the c3x00 helps protect my investment and bragging rights but it does make you wonder if the PDA market really is dead.

kahm:

I honestly think you should start listing the computers you DON'T own in your sig, it'll be shorter. Do you have an IT block in your house biggrin.gif
Da_Blitz
e17 on the iphone, not likly but i have heard roumors of the zune doing those sorts of tricks

i think i am at the point where i feel that the "common man" is holding me back in terms of technolagy. we have all this cool stuff that is too "complicated" for the users or so they say wink.gif

as an entry level phone this thing is a real killer, no more no less. where this thing dosent compete is in the top end (i feel the same way about blackberries) however that wont stop somepeople from bragging that its a top end phone and the best on the market

to those people i say "is your phone loaded with an ftp server, webserver and a mobile torrent client and can do aoying things with bluetooth to other people smile.gif" some people need these features some dont (btw the web and ftp servers are for moving files around on wlan, its my version of samba for wince)

on the other hand i am learning from apple, they did make some incredable UI choices and asthetic choices as well (keyboard pops up a notification above the top to show which button you pushed). after seeing this and the fund drive for the open source nvidia cards it really pushes me too finish off what i have been doing (even more so after my Z "incedent")
dhns
For me:

iPhone = iPod within the hood of a nice consumer Phone and creatively designed user interface + internet&mail access.

Zaurus = Minicomputer for your pocket with a multitude of communication options and accessories

-- hns
adf
personally, I'm more interested in the neo.
Cresho
One main issue for use as a personal phone is battery life. 5 hours? that is terrible. at least 12 is perfect. Not alot of phones can do this I agree but I expected more. I was willing to gor for such a device but not for 5 hours talktime.
speculatrix
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Jan 10 2007, 05:52 AM)
No offence but, I'm not quite following you here.  Our 3200s only have 6 gigs of space built-in.  Are you insulted by Sharp, too?  huh.gif  smile.gif
*


given there are 20GB microdrives existing, I am surprised apple didn't use one... however I have never found any way of actually buying one!

the latest JVC everio digi camcorders have 60GB options, if these are microdrives then I would love to have one in the Z!
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(freizugheit @ Jan 9 2007, 08:51 PM)
QUOTE
I personally don't like OSX or Apple, so pardon me if I'm being negative.


Capn Fish,

Have you used Apple products before?

What's wrong with OSX?
*



I find OSX hard to use, but that's probably just me not being used to it. I feel that they took perfectly good Unix and messed it up. The lack of a right mouse button is awkward too. I also don't like the bar at the top of the screen or the one at the bottom. I don't know what either one is called, but one seems to be a quick launch/taskbar and the other seems to be a standard launch bar.

I have used iPods, and I don't really like the scroll wheel. It kind of hurts my thumb after a while. Their desktop all-in-ones, whatever they're called, are pretty slick, but I don't like the white. It stands out too much, and I also like to be able to tinker inside my desktops easily.

Does that clear that up well enough?
nilch
The future will tell if the Apple iPhone will be a totally closed device with nobody other than Apple and Apple blessed co-developers will be able to develop apps for it or others can also write apps for it using a freely (or easily) available SDK - which actually makes it an open device.

I doubt that 2nd option will ever happen.
So in essence you are locked down to what Apple provides and maybe a little hack here and there.
If that is indeed the case, then it really can't compare with the Zaurus. I mean how many Windows Smartphone phones have been loaded with Linux (OE) (widely) so far ?

Do we think we can just put a FTP server or VNC client on it and get going ? No way I think. Apple is going to lock it down well and good to its own walled garden of hardware and software (with MS Windows support of course thrown in). The only difference is that this time its a hardware company dictating what works and what does not instead of the ISP, which screwed us so far with Smartphone features disables and killed.

Hope I am proved wrong though.
But I have to give it to Apple for designing this beauty and I think it will move the ground from underneath many a phone designer and service provider in terms of changing the playing field.
kopsis
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jan 10 2007, 02:20 PM)
I find OSX hard to use, but that's probably just me not being used to it. I feel that they took perfectly good Unix and messed it up. The lack of a right mouse button is awkward too. I also don't like the bar at the top of the screen or the one at the bottom. I don't know what either one is called, but one seems to be a quick launch/taskbar and the other seems to be a standard launch bar.


I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but in what way is it messed up?! Open "Terminal" and there's a perfectly good Bash shell awaiting your command. Enter a common Unix command (note Unix != Linux) and it works pretty much as expected. In fact, Apple even provided command line tools that support administering many of the Mac's "custom" features. Sure it takes some time to learn. The same would be true if you were a BSD person using Linux for the first time or a Linux person using Solaris.

Install Apple's X11 server and you can install and run standard Unix X Windows apps (including a genuine Xterm if the Mac's Terminal prog isn't Unixy enough for you). For example, I use GnuCash on my Mac all the time.

As for the "bar" at the top, that's for your menus. The menus for your focused app show up there. Note how you can just throw your mouse cursor to the top of the screen and hit the menu bar -- much easier that having to aim for a 30 pixel thick strip of sceen real estate located at some random position on the display. Google for Fitt's Law to learn more about this aspect of GUI usability.

And the single button mouse argument? Please. You can use pretty much any mouse you want with Macs and they fully support the second button. Even Apple's own Mighty Mouse (though technically having no buttons) supports left and right clicks.

OS X is far from perfect (don't even get me started about the supposed "consistent look & feel"), but if you're going to bash it, at least pick on the "real" issues.
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 10 2007, 02:52 PM)
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jan 10 2007, 02:20 PM)
I find OSX hard to use, but that's probably just me not being used to it. I feel that they took perfectly good Unix and messed it up. The lack of a right mouse button is awkward too. I also don't like the bar at the top of the screen or the one at the bottom. I don't know what either one is called, but one seems to be a quick launch/taskbar and the other seems to be a standard launch bar.


I know I shouldn't feed trolls, but in what way is it messed up?! Open "Terminal" and there's a perfectly good Bash shell awaiting your command. Enter a common Unix command (note Unix != Linux) and it works pretty much as expected. In fact, Apple even provided command line tools that support administering many of the Mac's "custom" features. Sure it takes some time to learn. The same would be true if you were a BSD person using Linux for the first time or a Linux person using Solaris.

Install Apple's X11 server and you can install and run standard Unix X Windows apps (including a genuine Xterm if the Mac's Terminal prog isn't Unixy enough for you). For example, I use GnuCash on my Mac all the time.

As for the "bar" at the top, that's for your menus. The menus for your focused app show up there. Note how you can just throw your mouse cursor to the top of the screen and hit the menu bar -- much easier that having to aim for a 30 pixel thick strip of sceen real estate located at some random position on the display. Google for Fitt's Law to learn more about this aspect of GUI usability.

And the single button mouse argument? Please. You can use pretty much any mouse you want with Macs and they fully support the second button. Even Apple's own Mighty Mouse (though technically having no buttons) supports left and right clicks.

OS X is far from perfect (don't even get me started about the supposed "consistent look & feel"), but if you're going to bash it, at least pick on the "real" issues.
*



Sorry! ph34r.gif I don't mean to bash Apple. They do a great job in the innovation department.

I don't use Macs often, but the last time I did, I couldn't find the Terminal, and that was semi-looking for it. As for the mouse thing, the Macs I've used had the standard Mac mice with them, and I don't carry a spare mouse everywhere I go.

It's not that I hate Apple or Macs, I just don't like them. I feel that if I'm going to use something other than Windows, I'll use Linux. It works on my current hardware.

That's one other thing I have against Macs. They cost more than a standard PC. I guess that's what you pay for style, but I don't really like the white. I'm cheap, so I buy refurb computers from Dell at a fraction of full price, and if something breaks after the warranty is up, I can easily open the case and replace just about anything.

I don't want to start a war or anything, so sorry if I'm not a fan of Apple. I'm trying to voice my opinion without ticking anybody off or saying bad things just because.
kopsis
QUOTE(nilch @ Jan 10 2007, 02:38 PM)
The future will tell if the Apple iPhone will be a totally closed device with nobody other than Apple and Apple blessed co-developers will be able to develop apps for it  or others can also write apps for it using a freely (or easily) available SDK - which actually makes it an open device.
*


I've seen comments in a number of places today suggesting that the iPhone will be a "closed" platform but I really can't understand what's prompting them. I fail to see any good reason why Apple would want to lock third party developers out of the iPhone. OS X is *very* open to developers. The entire OS X SDK (including compiler and IDE) is a free download to anyone willing to fill out the registration form on Apple's web site. The success of the Mac is largely a result of high quality third party software ... much of which comes from small development shops. My experience has been that Mac shareware is of extremely high quality and is a big contributor to the Mac's loyal user base (you can have my copy of Quicksilver smwhen you pry it from my cold, dead fingers smile.gif ).

To me it looks like the iPhone will support OS X Dashboard Widgets (in fact the whole UI is strikingly similar to Dashboard). If that's true (and you can install new widgets), then you'd be able to create your own apps using little more than HTML and Javascript (which is how one currently writes Widgets for OS X). And the fact that Widgets are not compiled means that they could potentially work cross-platform allowing you to run the same Widget on your iPhone and your Mac.

I see the potential for a rebirth of the Palm Pilot software development world where developers could create small, simple, specialized apps without investing thousands of hours in embedded software development. This could only help sell more iPhones, so why would Apple oppose it?

And as for Cingular, they already ship all their Windows Mobile devices unlocked (at least for adding software) so why would this be any different? As long as they keep their exclusive, more iPhones = more contracts = more guaranteed monthly revenue. And most useful apps will want to interact with the network in some way, so more available apps means more network usage (and more $$$) for the Cingular. Some carriers are too short-sighted to recognize such a business opportunity, but I've seen little evidence that Cingular is amongst them.
tg
I think many here are too negative about iphone and may want to consider the following before completely dismissing it so early in the game.

1. Commercialy supported unix on pda/phone device (this is a first?)
2. Light versions of many very good apps (ok some will argue this but please do you really believe that apps such as itunes and safari are not likely to be better than anything else running on pda's at the moment - if not imediately then very soon?)
3. Sync that actually works more or less the same as on desktop (and is comercially supported by sucessful and rich company whose future likely depends on this type of device doing well)

The biggest problem I see with iphone as presented is lack of keyboard (but somehow I think we will very quickly see all kinds of accessories including bluetooth keyboards and mice in all kinds of forms/sizes/fashions - this will happen since new phones and ipods seem to trigger accessories very quickly, even expensive ones such as iMacs smile.gif). Also, I think that either some interesting 3'rd party keyboard, or some future apple release will convert iphone to clamshell format (those of us who love clamshell z's know this works best regardless of what Jobs said in his keynote).
Other minor concerns which I think/hope will be worked out soon are no clear up-front statement regarding support for 3rd party software development, batery life, initial limit of 8Gig storage (a big drawback), and processor power - but clearly if enough people buy into this device (and I think with all the hype and ipod fanaticism this is guaranteed to happen) we will soon see much more powerful iphones - few years down the road powerfull enough to perhaps retire the mac mini.
Anyway, I am now much more hopeful about future pda/phone offerings since at minimum iphone will push many others to carefully review their strategies (maybe even Sharp although the realist in me is affraid that Sharp's answer to iphone will be probably be another fancy Japanese electronic dictionary).
ArchiMark
FWIW, I use an old but 'souped-up' PMG4 tower for my main machine at home. It runs OSX well and overall it's a real joy to use.

For my mouse I'm using a Kensington trackball with 2 buttons.

Before that I was using the Kensington trackball with 4 buttons (until it broke)...

So, OSX definitely supports more than 1 mouse button if that's what you want to use....

wink.gif
nilch
Kopsis, I don't mean to foretell the future (never was into that line of thought), but all my negetive forecast (or rather projections) was because when you look at the ISP and Phone industry, they have not really been proponents of openness and accesability very much. And I was just going by the same yardstick.

Of course if Apple really does open it up to 3rd party development, than the better. In fact I think the phone itself by its nature and its collaboration with Cingular (As an ISP they stand out beyond the Verizons and Sprints in terms of openness) to change the Voicemail part itself shows that Apple can move and shake this frigid industry like they did with the Music industry by sticking to their guns of charging a flat rate for all songs. So I do take my hats off to Apple for trying something new.

And by calling them "closed", remember that I am comparing against the Zaurus (not Sharp) yardstick of openness, that's what the thread was all about.
Cresho
It appears cisco is suing apple for iphone.

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/07/01/10/2320257.shtml
cycle_55
I'll wait for a totally open, linux eating phone without any bells and whistles which I can program any way I choose. By saying this I am not knocking anyone.


cycle_55
Da_Blitz
just had a major thoght last night

seems to me that apple really has the low end cornered, windows has the middle ground and linux has the high ground (in terms of how good you are with technolagy)

of course there are exceptions but i find it rather funny. now if only each one relised this and agrreed to stay in thier respective nicheies (windows im looking at you)
xjqian
Any chance we can get an "unlocked" iPhone, which means you can switch carrier just by switching the SIM card? I am not hoping this will ever happen in the US. But Jobs mentioned that iPhone will enter the Asian market by 2008. AFAIK, a locked wireless handset has little chance to survive in the Asian market. Maybe we can see an unlocked version in Asian or European market. The value of iphone will not be justified until then as a piece of standalone hardware and an open set of OS+SDK. Any wireless ISP crap should be stripped off before I'm willing to pay the price.
ralphrmartin
QUOTE(Biggerfoot @ Jan 9 2007, 07:43 PM)
As a Mac user, the new iPhone is a tempting replacement for my trusty 5500.
*


Well, I am a mac user too, and the iPhone is useless to me. I use my Zaurus heavily for spreadsheets, and need a keyboard. Time to check out the OQO Model 02, I reckon.

The iPhone is a real disappointment (but not a surprise)...
cycle_55
How is it that every new devise which comes along is going to replace the Z. My Z is going to very difficult to replace. I would be much happier with these sorts of threads if they were more about comparing apples to apples smile.gif


cycle_55
Meanie
QUOTE(cycle_55 @ Jan 11 2007, 02:22 PM)
How is it that every new devise which comes along is going to replace the Z. My Z is going to very difficult to replace. I would be much happier with these sorts of threads if they were more about comparing apples to apples smile.gif


cycle_55
*


yeah, I got an OQO and it does not replace the Z. It may do other things that the Z can't do, but the Z does so many things it can't do. And btw, the OQO is an overprized piece of $$$$. And don't ever buy from expansys. Their service is crap.
speculatrix
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 10 2007, 09:30 PM)
platform but I really can't understand what's prompting them. I fail to see any good reason why Apple would want to lock third party developers out of the iPhone. OS X is *very* open to developers. The entire OS X SDK (including compiler and IDE) is a free download to anyone willing to fill out the registration form on Apple's web site. The success of the Mac is largely a
*


if a significant part of the iPhone system is made open source or at least available for download, then I for one would be interested in seeing it ported to the zaurus!
speculatrix
QUOTE(Meanie @ Jan 11 2007, 05:25 AM)
And don't ever buy from expansys. Their service is crap.
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I agree with that... two of us bought refurb'd Palm T3s at work, described as "as new, boxed, complete" - they were listed by specific number, and different units had different grades and descriptions implying that they were 100% definite as to condition. One arrived as described - could have been brand new, the other very tatty. Took quite a while to get expansys to even take notice, ended up forcing a refund by threatening credit card chargeback.

Anyway, this is off-topic.
dhns
QUOTE(kopsis @ Jan 10 2007, 09:30 PM)
I've seen comments in a number of places today suggesting that the iPhone will be a "closed" platform but I really can't understand what's prompting them. I fail to see any good reason why Apple would want to lock third party developers out of the iPhone.
Well, the same argument would hold for the iPod and 3rd party games - but it was and is locked...
QUOTE
OS X is *very* open to developers. The entire OS X SDK (including compiler and IDE) is a free download to anyone willing to fill out the registration form on Apple's web site. The success of the Mac is largely a result of high quality third party software ... much of which comes from small development shops. My experience has been that Mac shareware is of extremely high quality and is a big contributor to the Mac's loyal user base (you can have my copy of Quicksilver smwhen you pry it from my cold, dead fingers smile.gif ).

To me it looks like the iPhone will support OS X Dashboard Widgets (in fact the whole UI is strikingly similar to Dashboard). If that's true (and you can install new widgets), then you'd be able to create your own apps using little more than HTML and Javascript (which is how one currently writes Widgets for OS X). And the fact that Widgets are not compiled means that they could potentially work cross-platform allowing you to run the same Widget on your iPhone and your Mac.

That is exactly the same conclusion I came to while trying to collect all these bits of information. And, Safari understands HTML&Javascript - all similar requirements for Google Maps on a Phone.

-- hns
gr8ful
QUOTE(cycle_55 @ Jan 10 2007, 11:22 PM)
How is it that every new devise which comes along is going to replace the Z. My Z is going to very difficult to replace. I would be much happier with these sorts of threads if they were more about comparing apples to apples smile.gif


cycle_55
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I know I look at whether these new devices will replace my Z because I am dying for more innovation (better screen, faster processor, more memory) and better integration (wifi, BT). For most of the power users on this site, it will take one special device to replace ALL that you are doing with your Z's. For some the iPhone may fit the bill.

The one thing Apple has done with the iPhone and basing it on OSX, they have laid the foundation to build on. Can you imagine in the future an iPhone that runs a mobile version of iWork (word processor, presentation, and soon to be added spreadsheet) and a mobile version of iTunes so you can purchase and download music, TV shows, and music wirelessly. Then think about integrating all of this with your .Mac account accessible wirelessly so that you can store and retrieve your iWork documents there, store and retrieve your iTunes media there, etc, etc, etc.

It's obvious that the iPhone is not for everyone. I do like the innovation they put into the phone, but will it be open to third-party development? If you want a hackable phone, then the Neo1973 by FIC may be what many are looking for. It won't replace the Zaurus for many of you either, but it sure will be fun to play with.
speculatrix
QUOTE(gr8ful @ Jan 11 2007, 04:06 PM)
I know I look at whether these new devices will replace my Z because I am dying for more innovation (better screen, faster processor, more memory) and better integration (wifi, BT).
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IMVHO the HTC universal can be zaurus killer, and there's still too much that's work in progress (http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UniversalStatus).
vputz
I'm way, way more interested in the OpenMoko phone...
bluedevils
hmmm...I don't see anthing about speech recognition for dialing through a bluetooth headset. That could be a deal breaker...
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