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cxz
Folks from russian zaurus community installed gentoo on zaurus. It's not a gentooforzaurus port, it's just usual gentoo with minor changes placed on SD card with portage files via NFS and xorg-server based on ebuild from ipaq hx4700 overlay
Actually it's "ready to make ready to use" , rather then "ready to use"
It's slightly tested on c1k and c3k
Screenshots can be found at screenshot smile.gif
jpmatrix
yeah!
now we ve to find an english install howto wink.gif
Chero
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Jan 31 2007, 07:24 PM)
yeah!
now we ve to find an english install howto wink.gif
*


Indeed,

I tried to read the russian pages through bablefish, but that didn't help me that much.
I understand they use the pdaXrom uboot loader and there is an "sd-snapshot" available. But then again, I might be completely wrong, "translation bablefish through always that isn't good"

A quick howto and a list of files to download would be nice to do a few tests and take a look at it,

Please ... smile.gif

Chero.
kkazakov13
I understand Russian ... will check it tomorrow wink.gif
adf
QUOTE(kkazakov13 @ Jan 31 2007, 08:15 PM)
I understand Russian ... will check it tomorrow wink.gif
*

Please, please do!

I've been wanting to see gentoo on zaurus since the early opensystemas anouncement.

Are you going to try it out and post a how to after, maybe?
webslngr
warning: opinions abound

i use gentoo on all my linux boxes at home, including my home servers. I like it because of portage and emerge, which, IMO is the only reason to use gentoo. compiled performance enhancements are normally imagined.

a gentoo based *image* for a zaurus is a great thought and portage/emerge can also handle binary packages. maybe a zaurus model specific, binary (read arm pre-compiled), portage overlay would work well enough. portage / emerge would then have the same concept as feeds / ipkg. if someone were to try and emerge an app that wasn't in the binary ovelay, then it could dl the src and compile it. emerge -a would be your friend.

i'm not a developer by any means, but i would think that most of the already arm compiled apps for pdax/oz would be compatable, although making the ebuilds for them might be a pain. file destinations and paths might be an issue; alot of ebuilds currently in portage "gentoo-ify" file destinations when installing the finished app/lib.

however, i do agree with the gentoo dev on the last post of ArchiMark's link. doing a source based distro for a z is just plain asinine. i even curse it on my pc's at times.

if gentoo's biggest pains (install and source compiling) could be removed / limited from the general z user, then it might be worth while. leaving the arm compiling to people with more than one z and people who like punishment smile.gif

another distro choice for the z isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Just my $.02

--webslngr

edit: i found a portage pda overlay in the gentoo forums, looks like it is for an ipaq.
[link: forums.gentoo.org]
Snappy
Interesting ... gentoo on Z would make yet another full distro on Z.

It's good to have choices ... but isn't this bordering on "because we can" kind of choice?
adf
QUOTE(Snappy @ Jan 31 2007, 10:03 PM)
Interesting ... gentoo on Z would make yet another full distro on Z.

It's good to have choices ... but isn't this bordering on "because we can" kind of choice?
*

Unless it is relatively easy to continue with gentoo from there-- this would help proof us in case OZ moves on and pdax goes static
Ling
Don't know about others. Gentoo holds no interest to me. Much too big a pain in the butt to setup and having to compile everything on the Z would get old in a hurry. I would get much more excited about Ubuntu on the Z.
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(Ling @ Jan 31 2007, 08:12 PM)
I would get much more excited about Ubuntu on the Z.
*

I second that!
cal
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jan 31 2007, 09:29 PM)
QUOTE(Ling @ Jan 31 2007, 08:12 PM)
I would get much more excited about Ubuntu on the Z.
*

I second that!
*




<Roberts Rules of Order>
We have a second, and that opens the floor to discussion.
</Roberts Rules of Order>


Embedded Ubuntu is being discussed here,
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EmbeddedUbuntu
Ling
I run Kubuntu on my other boxes. I imagine that KDE (or Gnome) would be a bit heavy for the Z. Maybe Xubuntu would be the right fit. i know less than nothing, but I wonder with the Debian ARM packages if this is a possibility? Maybe a new distro with XFCE tailored for the Zaurus called Zubuntu! Yeah baby.
cxz
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Jan 31 2007, 10:24 AM)
yeah!
now we ve to find an english install howto wink.gif
*



very-very quick `how to install that snapshot to c1k/c3k SD card` for pdaxrom users in english

Notes:
This snapshot is not a system to use, it's for test and play. More usable snaps will be in future, i believe
Packeges in snap listed in ftp://gentoo.ru/projects/handhelds/zaurus...i.pack_list.txt
This snap is EABI
More details about EABI you can get at http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort

Download files:
ftp://gentoo.ru/projects/handhelds/zaurus...gnueabi.tar.bz2
Format SD card as ext3 and extract archive to mounted card

c3100/c3200 users need to replace SD_CARD/kernel.img with image from ftp://gfz:gentoofz@civil.mine.nu/2.6.19.2-vanilla/kernel.img
and extract modules to SD_CARD/lib/modules from archive at ftp://gfz:gentoofz@civil.mine.nu/2.6.19.2.../modules.tar.gz

You can compile your own kernel image, but note that you need to enable EABI in kernel config and boot options:
CONFIG_CMDLINE="console=ttyS0,115200n8 console=tty1 noinitrd root=/dev/mmcblk0p1 rootfstype=ext3 rw fbcon=rotate:1 rootdelay=5"


Remove battery for 5 seconds or press `reset` button and press and hold the "OK" button. you will booted into emergency ram system, it runs autoboot.sh that offers you to install kernel to NAND, so press Y and install it.
(similar to installing pdaxrom, but this autoboot.sh install new kernel.img only. If you want to turn back your pdaxrom system, just copy kernel.img from pdaxrom archive to SD card and repeat this procedure.)

root's password is `qq`

thats all
adf
I think it is BECAUSE gentoo compiles that it is possible to put it on a Z. and even the tiniest speed increase helps. I have kubuntu on my desktop, debian on my server. going gentoo on the desktop wouldn't kill me, much as I like my kubuntu. I like pdaX on my Z, but would spend the time to see how gentoo works
Snappy
QUOTE(adf @ Feb 1 2007, 06:50 AM)
QUOTE(Snappy @ Jan 31 2007, 10:03 PM)
Interesting ... gentoo on Z would make yet another full distro on Z.

It's good to have choices ... but isn't this bordering on "because we can" kind of choice?
*

Unless it is relatively easy to continue with gentoo from there-- this would help proof us in case OZ moves on and pdax goes static
*



ok ... now that we got everyone excited ... wink.gif
Guess the upside as you mentioned, is that gentoo or even (z)ubuntu is actively maintained. smile.gif

On the other hand, if there is no speed improvement, having a somewhat static rom such as Cacko is still serving many of us well, that is once we get the necessary apps we need to use.

On yet the earlier hand, being actively maintained can future proof our Z, example updating the SD drivers to support 4gb sdcard, and perhaps even SDIO and SDHC? smile.gif

I'll stop here ...
kkazakov13
QUOTE(Snappy @ Feb 1 2007, 07:46 AM)
On yet the earlier hand, being actively maintained can future proof our Z, example updating the SD drivers to support 4gb sdcard, and perhaps even SDIO and SDHC? smile.gif

I'll stop here ...
*


SDHC will not be possible, as the hardware is not compatible. Don't know for SDIO, as I don't know hardware part of the zaurus. But for SD 4 gb, I agree, I think it's quite possible from what I've read so far.
adf
4 gig sd works on kernel 2.6
can be "perssuaded" on 2.4 on pxa2700
kkazakov13
Any idea from where to get the ftp://gfz:gentoofz@civil.mine.nu/* files, mentioned ? did anyone downloaded them already?
Snappy
QUOTE(kkazakov13 @ Feb 1 2007, 02:51 PM)
QUOTE(Snappy @ Feb 1 2007, 07:46 AM)
On yet the earlier hand, being actively maintained can future proof our Z, example updating the SD drivers to support 4gb sdcard, and perhaps even SDIO and SDHC? smile.gif

I'll stop here ...
*


SDHC will not be possible, as the hardware is not compatible. Don't know for SDIO, as I don't know hardware part of the zaurus. But for SD 4 gb, I agree, I think it's quite possible from what I've read so far.
*



Well, true for SDHC. For 4gb, I know it works, 'cos my Z accepts the 4gb sdcard readily with the updated sdcard driver. smile.gif ... at least on Cacko 1.23 anyway. smile.gif
Da_Blitz
funny you mentoin SDHC, do a search in the 2.6.20 changelogs for the lin kernel smile.gif

btw SD card specs say the cards have to be backwards compatible, they will operate at the slower speeds however as the dell pda users know not all SD cards are created equal smile.gif

i here there is an arm port of fedora around, id be intrested in giving that a go smile.gif (i just find unbuntu really really slow, for me there is no real diffrence between ubuntu and fedora except that fedora has a theme that i like more)

i hear the precompiled binary distros bassed on gentoo are becomming a bit more common. perhaps the russians should team up with the nsul guys as they have a compile farm of arm servers (distcc, on 233Mhz procs with 64MB a peice and huge swap + / disk)

i think gentoo is more like OE, except OE dosent call itself a distro sad.gif. a binary version of gentoo would be very intresting and portage has support for binary mirrors smile.gif smile.gif
adf
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Feb 6 2007, 07:48 AM)
funny you mentoin SDHC, do a search in the 2.6.20 changelogs for the lin kernel smile.gif

btw SD card specs say the cards have to be  backwards compatible, they will operate at the slower speeds however as the dell pda users know not all SD cards are created equal smile.gif

i here there is an arm port of fedora around, id be intrested in giving that a go smile.gif (i just find unbuntu really really slow, for me there is no real diffrence between ubuntu and fedora except that fedora has a theme that i like more)

i hear the precompiled binary distros bassed on gentoo are becomming a bit more common. perhaps the russians should team up with the nsul guys as they have a compile farm of arm servers (distcc, on 233Mhz procs with 64MB a peice and huge swap + / disk)

i think gentoo is more like OE, except OE dosent call itself a distro sad.gif. a binary version of gentoo would be very intresting and portage has support for binary mirrors smile.gif smile.gif
*

You just have to rebuild your kernel to speed ubuntu up. apt-get --build pretty much automates it. it is really no big deal to make Ubuntu very snappy.
pkwong
anyone using gentoo?
i get kernel panic everytime i emerge --sync...
please help smile.gif
anunakin
Nice news...

Sash, what u think? can we just go to this way? laugh.gif tongue.gif
pkwong
hmm, after some luck with emerge sync without kernel panic,
now it fails to patch anything when doing a emerge smile.gif
speculatrix
sorry to be a dampener... the reason why gentoo supposedly gives a speed increase is because there are many variants of PC hardware and the generic OS installs (suse, redhat, debian etc etc) use a default kernel and library builds covering most variants of CPU, and thus are unlikely to be optimal for your hardware.

the kernels and libraries for your Z are built specifically for the model, and although there have been special builds (e.g. tetsu kernels) in general they're going to be somewhat optimised for the specific PXA processors in use - it's perfectly possible to cross-compile things for the Z on a linux x86 box and optimise for the specific CPU.

I would hint that setting up a good build environment on your PC able to build all of pdax or OZ or A with all compilations optimised for your specific CPU would be your best endeavour. Snag is you could have compatibility problems with any standard packages from the feed.
Civil
pkwong
You need either eclass.patch ( ftp://gentoo.ru/pub/eclass.arm.patch ) or native compiled bash.
pkwong
GREAT!!!
it worked after patching! thanks!!
gen2
QUOTE(webslngr @ Jan 31 2007, 09:30 PM)
however, i do agree with the gentoo dev on the last post of ArchiMark's link. doing a source based distro for a z is just plain asinine. i even curse it on my pc's at times.

if gentoo's biggest pains (install and source compiling) could be removed / limited from the general z user, then it might be worth while. leaving the arm compiling to people with more than one z and people who like punishment smile.gif

Just my $.02

--webslngr


ROFL!!!!

Oh MAN, my sides hurt!!! Ok this is one of the funniest things I've read all week. I barely know where to begin. I can't even address it directly it's so silly. Folks, completely ignore what this webslngr said here, it's worth far less than $.02.

Gentoo on a Z is EXACTLY what you want. That's how you squeeze all the mismatch mayhem out of the system, how you get ALL of your apps running great, even while you add more and more, or rip a bunch out. Gentoo SCALES. That is what we like. I just compiled 450 packages for OpenBSD on Z, and it's PAINLESS, chomsayin? Local compilation on a sane distribution is a good thing.

Obviously you people need some churchin up. Get with reverend Theo, they do good work over there. wink.gif

http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/
adf
Gentoo on Z would rock assuming it is something like as "painless" as it is on a pc. what about the limited disk space? any way to build packages on a network mount, or somthing like that?
gen2
QUOTE(adf @ May 21 2007, 11:56 PM)
Gentoo on Z would rock assuming it is something like as "painless" as it is on a pc. what about the limited disk space? any way to build packages on a network mount, or somthing like that?
*


By painless I mean 99% of builds working, 450 pkgs in a row (actually 500+ now), not chasing after a single dependency, everything on full autopilot, set it and walk away...which is (to me) impressive on a Z.

Builds happen over NFS, check out my link for the procedure.
http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/#ports

Course there's always folks posting pre-rolled packages, too (heh).
adf
Got a link on where and how to get started?
(and can it be done on a 6000, or just the newer clamshells?)
gen2
QUOTE(adf @ May 22 2007, 12:41 AM)
Got a link on where and how to get started?
(and can it be done on a 6000, or just the newer clamshells?)
*


http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/

The links I've posted already tell the entire story, but there is more if you like:

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=148

Regrettably, I bear no good news for cXXX and below, as far as OpenBSD is concerned. I am not running Gentoo on my zaurus (just getin the news here!), but the switch freak in me has goggles on. Sounds like a Gentoo Z forum at OESF has officially become a necessity. Excellent!

OpenBSD isn't likely to be banished from my 3200 anytime soon though...
Capn_Fish
Has anybody tried Gentoo on the Z? I don't think I have even heard of anybody even trying.
gen2
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ May 22 2007, 03:14 PM)
Has anybody tried Gentoo on the Z? I don't think I have even heard of anybody even trying.
*


blink.gif

Well if you type "gentoo zaurus" into google, I have a sawbuck that says you may have an answer to that question...not to mention the very theme of this thread...

I'd venture to guess that any gentoo port to the Z is going to be a bit on the bloody edge for a while yet, but it'll be a treat to watch developments unfold.

OpenBSD is as close as you can get today (Illuminati would rightly kick my ass for ever suggesting gentoo is "better than" OpenBSD on any platform).

I think the main thing you want, the thing that delivers long term stability and happiness, is a mature package management system (not to mention a comprehensive approach to the entire OS ala obsd). Gentoo portage is a child of BSD ports. It's all really good stuff, bears learning. Yes it hurts up front, you have to read a bit to "master" ports and/or portage, but in the long run, it will save you time and headache.

Best to remember that package management is utterly non-trivial. There is no way to give you the intrinsic flexibilities that abound (and save one from nightmares) AND make it punter-simple. Meeting Linux or BSDs half way is almost gauranteed to pay off (presuming you get a thrill from this stuff in the first place), but I'm preachin to the choir...y'all are leaning hard-core or you wouldn't be reading this...

"Not having to wait for someone to build a pkg for me...priceless."
speculatrix
if you really really want an OS on zaurus which is "natively" built, then you really want to use distcc and a cross-compiler on a nearby server so that the Z doesn't have to do any compiling, and the PC does the heavy lifting.
gen2
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 22 2007, 04:15 PM)
if you really really want an OS on zaurus which is "natively" built, then you really want to use distcc and a cross-compiler on a nearby server so that the Z doesn't have to do any compiling, and the PC does the heavy lifting.
*


That is indeed how it's usually done around here (save for the distcc maybe), I'm just saying that from the perspective of one who does compile on the Z, I've found the process more reliable and less involved than cross compiling (cross toolchain maintenance does not enjoy a happy reputation), and nowhere near as painful as people claim around here.

And we're ignoring the fact that cross compiling means you have to address each package one at a time, and handle all of your dependency issues manually, correct me if I'm wrong.

"If you really really want an OS on zaurus which is "natively" built..."

Native isn't really really the point, per se. And I'm not trying to "rice up" my Z with compiler flags; just after simple things like stability, manageability, sanity. In fact, OpenBSD developers compile zaurus releases on their Z's because of the simplicity of it, not to mention it eliminates a slew of possible (subtle, and not so subtle) integration issues. Check out OpenBSD.org.

In my world, I create a batch list of packages I want (simple text file list), point ports at that, and everything automagically builds, hands-free, go play golf or whatever, come back tomorrow and you have a bunch of fresh packages that actually WORK. I'm calling that easier by several orders of magnitude, and fully accessible to non-gurus.

And you don't HAVE TO compile anything, or even deal with ports at all; just like all the other ROMs, many nice people have already posted pre-compiled package repositories. That you easily CAN is just pure gravy.

have at it if you dont believe.
http://www.planetofidiots.com/zaurus/

Also check in on iamasmith and mathmajickian, very competent and helpful folks if you want to get into it.
http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showforum=148

maybe even see this first:
http://www.openbsd.org/zaurus.html
Capn_Fish
I guess I meant "Has anybody here tried Gentoo on the Zaurus?"
ZDevil
I hate (did i say love?) to say that, but what gen2 says is really true after I start feeding my Terrier with Blowfish...
Civil
QUOTE
(and can it be done on a 6000, or just the newer clamshells?)

Any machine that have kernel 2.6 and u-boot working.
Mesk
New rootfs for SD card based on 2007.0 gentoo profile

ftp://gentoo.ru/projects/handhelds/zaurus...0070807.tar.bz2

Some preinstalled software:

xorg-server-1.1.1-r3 (custom, based on ebuild from http://projects.gentoo.ru/gentoo-pda/browser/portage )
matchbox-1.0
windowmaker-0.92.0-r3
fbreader-0.8.5a (from sources)
mc-4.6.1-r3
gqview-2.1.5
stardict-2.4.8
stardict-freedict-eng-rus-2.4.2
gpsdrive-2.09-r1
mpd-0.13.0/mpc-0.12.1/gmpc-0.15.1
mplayer-1.0_rc1-r90 (custom-flags, generally official ebuild r1)
pidgin-2.0.2 (icq/jabber/googletalk/msn/etc)
xchat-2.8.4-r1
dillo-0.8.6
links-2.1_pre28-r1
qt-4.3.0 (custom, Civil's ebuild)
rxvt-2.7.10-r3

some screenshots:
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2715/001vv9.png
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/330/002ny9.png
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/4122/003gl2.png
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3442/004hf4.png
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6583/005yt0.png
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6440/006zt2.png
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/1952/007rn8.png

some binary packages you can get at ftp://gentoo.ru/projects/handhelds/packages/eabi/iwmmxt/

Quick howto from Civil:

Requiments:
1. Zaurus C1000, C3x00 (in fact it can work on any device with iwmmxt - pxa27x but you need to adjust keymap)
2. 2GB+ on SD/MMC/CF/Microdrive working on any ROM with 2.6 kernel.
3. Hand
4. Time (aprox. 30 min)
It is recomended to have internet on zaurus. It'll make your life easier. And it is also recomended to have USB-Cardreader + Linux (you can use VMWare), but not necessary (it'll speedup unpacking of rootfs).

Installation how-to:
I'll asume that you have only your Zaurus, without internet and no PC box (or no cardreader), and that you install on mmcblk0p1 (to SD/MMC card). For example archive with rootfs is placed on CF card wich mounted to /mnt/cf.
1. umount /mnt/sd
2. mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1
3. mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /mnt/sd
4. tar -xjf /mnt/cf/gentooonZ_sd_20070807.tar.bz2 -C /mnt/sd
5. mcedit /mnt/sd/etc/fstab - you'll need to ajust fstab for your configuration (change device wich is mounted to /, etc. Step is optional, current /etc/fstab is correct for usual cases)
6. tar -xjf /mnt/cf/kernel-modules.tar.bz2 -C /mnt/sd (optional, c1k users don't need this)
7. If you don't have u-boot installed (using OZ, angstrom etc.): follow pdaXrom's guide.
8. Boot to pdaXrom emergency system and just press 'y' when it asks you about installing new kernel, or flash kernel for your device with command: nandlogical /dev/mtd1 WRITE 0x5a0000 0x160000 /mnt/cf/kernel.img (where kernel.img is name of kernel you've downloaded)
9. Reboot. now have gentoo 2007.0 EABI environment. Root password is 'qq'
louigi600
I want to give it a try ....
where is it that I can get the gentooonZ_sd_20070807.tar.bz2 ?
Mesk
QUOTE(louigi600 @ Aug 8 2007, 05:21 PM)
I want to give it a try ....
where is it that I can get the gentooonZ_sd_20070807.tar.bz2  ?
*


sorry,

ftp://gentoo.ru/projects/handhelds/zaurus...0070807.tar.bz2

i've fixed the post above
adf
very cool. how is the mlpayer performance, and that sort of thing (obviously, there is a big advantage in the current libraries and "big distro" softwaree)?
louigi600
Be brave and try yourself ... it will not hurt if you put it on the SD ....
if you do not like it just use the emerg system to flash bach the pdaxrom kernel and everything will be the same as before. ;-)
Mesk
QUOTE(adf @ Aug 8 2007, 07:19 PM)
very cool. how is the mlpayer performance, and that sort of thing (obviously, there is a big advantage in the current libraries and "big distro" softwaree)?
*


Mlpayer performance similar to pdaxrom r121
Last official gentoo ebuilds are based on svn mplayer code, and it has patches from maemo projects, but i didn't test it yet
Generally this gentoo rootfs is usual gentoo, so you can try to emerge any ebuild from offial gentoo portage, except big projects like xorg-server(it has problems with zaurus touchscreen) and QT4(offical just doesn't work, Civil's ebuild has patches from debian arm port)
And known issue is that firefox/mozila give 'illegal instruction', i don't know how to work out that
I commented software in my first post, programs without comments are from official gentoo portage
If you have Z model without internal hadrdrive, you should to mount portage via NFS from desktop (you don't need gentoo on desktop, just exported portage), i bet you will get "no left space on device" with local portage on zaurus
and if you want to speedup compilation, use distcc and cross-compiler on desktop
Civil
QUOTE
i bet you will get "no left space on device" with local portage on zaurus

Portage itself is ~400MB, but distfiles will take much...
Current version of overlay for portage (with some patches software, most patches are from OZ, but there is some Debian ARM patches there too):
ftp://civil.mine.nu/zaurus/portage-overlay
Mesk
QUOTE(Civil @ Aug 8 2007, 08:43 PM)
QUOTE
i bet you will get "no left space on device" with local portage on zaurus

Portage itself is ~400MB, but distfiles will take much...


Problem is that ext2/ext3 can't work on small partition with so many tiny files
speculatrix
can I make a proposal? once you have your gentooZ system fully built to de-personalise it, make a NAND backup and publish it so that people can very easily install it from scratch?
Capn_Fish
Any way to dual-boot? Use the pdaX kernel in Gentoo and boot with uBoot?
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