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danboid
I would very much appreciate it if you could all visit myspace page and read my latest blog entry where I present a simple battle plan which could well be highly effective (if enough people do it) in speeding our freedom and saving our planet

myspace.com/danboid

Thanks!

Dan
ArchiMark
Ummm.....danboid, I'd recommend getting some professional help or laying off the mushrooms.....


rolleyes.gif
InSearchOf
allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllright....

Late
Fushnchupsh
well, first off, I must say that everyone should be trying to help the environment and the critical situation it is in. The problem is, so many people are saying it's waaaay to late- it's not. Don't get me started, I am a huge preservationist. That being said... Interesting read there Danno. They take you up to the starship recently? wink.gif

Just raggin on you, mate.
--Fish
desertrat
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 10 2007, 07:49 PM)
Ummm.....danboid, I'd recommend getting some professional help or laying off the mushrooms.....

Getting anal-probed by little green men in silver saucers tends to have that effect smile.gif

Hey Danboid if you're serious about that proposal to the UN you need to take out the US first - they have a long history of vetoing resolutions that benefits humanity.

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html
Cresho
ohh no! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just took what ever Danboid took!

no transfats, little salt and I mean little, no fructose, no galactose, no preservatives, no artificial sweeteners nothing from the store. Everything must be natural and from the ground up and not below. green leafy vegetables is a must, reduce fats and increase exercise. meats 1x a week. NO cheese, no milk so get your d elsewhere.
danboid
Oh dear!

I'm very, very disappointed with the replies my posting has generated here- I honestly thought this forum was more open-minded and mature than this. You've proved me wrong- it would seem that just if someone is interested in supporting free software doesn't mean they're interested in seeing this freedom permeate to other level of society too, or at least that if someone suggests this is possible they get ridiculed as some kind of hopeless druggy.

Fushnchups - Well done in realising that the health of the earth is all important- where would we be without her? We must never give up hope, otherwise you might as well get it over with now.

Those who are ridiculing UFO's need to search for an event known as the 'Phoenix Lights' which happened in Arizona, 1997, where 1000's and 1000's of people saw, filmed and photographed a ship the size of several football fields fly over, very slowly and in total silence. Also watch the Disclosure Project videos (linked on my blog), consider the billions of other planets in our universe and check out all the UFO docs the French government disclosed publlically a few weeks back and then try telling me I'm out of my mind. All this and more in my blog - the truth and evidence is most definitely in my favour on this one. I have also had (potential) ET encounters myself.

desertrat:

US, UK, Freemasons, The Vatican... all these are smokescreens for the people really in power - the Jesuits- who are the true purveyors of the New World Order with one centralised global government and a microchipped population. I've always found the term 'embedded' (as in OESF) a bit scary as this is what they're after- total surveillance and control.

If you want to know more about who is really in control of our planet and how then I recommend you go onto Google video and search for Jordan Maxwell. He has been researching secret societies, religions and politics deeply for over 40 years and is the leading authority on such things.

Everybody needs to help spread the truth because when enough people realise how we've been duped for 1000's of years then all the governments won't be able to stop the publics demand for freedom and truth. YOU are your own God, don't think that the UN or whoever are going to do what is good for you or our planet- quite the opposite as they have proved over and over again.
Ling
As my post was not intended to offend, only in jest, I deleted it. BTW, I don't think the mushrooms mentioned in the previous message were portabellos, but oh well. In fact, I tend to agree with you on the UFO issue. Where disclosure would not compromise a weapons program, etc. governments should disclose what they know. Secrecy breeds speculation. Similarly on the secret/secretive societies, secrecy breeds speculation. The only point on your blog that I had a serious issue with was the '9/11 was a inside job' comment. In my opinion, that signficantly diminished the credibility of the other messages. Having lost a few teammates and family members of teammates at the Pentagon, that comment makes me mad. The fact that it comes from a Brit, who ought to be one of the last to try and dampen public opposition to terrorism, makes it worse. I know that the Brits I work with would not appreciate that message either. So with all that said, I applaud your using the power of the Internet to promote change even though I disagree with some of your points.
danboid
9/11 was most definitely an inside job. Please watch this video - 9/11 Loose Change

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?&...2753501&q=Loose

I can give you much, much more proof if you need it if watching that doesn't fully convince you- there are SO many holes in the official story it is way beyond a joke- not that there is anything funny about any of this.
Fushnchupsh
I just sat and watched that video, Danboid. While I still have alot of thinking to do, I have to say "wow". There are some extremely good arguments and some interesting thoughts. Right now I am taking a film class focusing on documentaries and propoganda so, I am probably a bit harder to convince at the moment. But I really have to say that I have alot to consider and question.

Thanks
--Fish
danboid
Good man!

It is important to always remain open minded and never accept anybodies opinions until you have done some serious research into whatever it may be.

I studied Media production at university so I know all about gatekeepers and the hidden agendas and interests of the mainstream media and I can assure you that If you depend solely on TV, radio and press to form the basis of your opinions and views then you will never know the truth.

We currently have a fair amount of free speech on the internet right now so we must fight to maintain it - it is of utmost importance people know how we have been manipulated and had so much vital knowledge suppressed for so long.
Fushnchupsh
on a side note. This class has really disturbed me. The proff has focused on how easily our subconcious can be confused and mislead (use of montages, etc). These misleadings lead to biased and sometimes illogical conclusions.
I am so wary of what I watch now!!

--Fish
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 11 2007, 06:42 AM)
Good man!

It is important to always remain open minded and never accept anybodies opinions until you have done some serious research into whatever it may be.

I studied Media production at university so I know all about gatekeepers and the hidden agendas and interests of the mainstream media and I can assure you that If you depend solely on TV, radio and press to form the basis of your opinions and views then you will never know the truth.

We currently have a fair amount of free speech on the internet right now so we must fight to maintain it - it is of utmost importance people know how we have been manipulated and had so much vital knowledge suppressed for so long.
*
Cresho
yeah i posted that a few months/years back. I saw the flick and kept an open mind

then i read this

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display....retnuh0.9919245

and this

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology...842.html?page=1

Even though both articles still does not convince me totally, I still keep an open mind. Just read for yourself but the truth is you need to make a conclusion of the evidence (if any) but I really dont have time for it. But I still think something fishy is going on here cuz everything is so stupid.

Here are my facts!
1. Too many people in the planet
2. Too many cars
3. WE NEED GAS!
4. I AM GETTING TAXED 40% and it goes to uncle sam.
5. RICH GET TAXED LESS
6. actors in unemployment earn more than a few hundred thousands of dollers compared to others.
7. people on walfare dont work! ( I saw pay them but train them to work in schools while getting welfare but call it government jobs.) we need teachers? shit! and no money? this is crazy.
8. water and power in los angeles is in danger!>
danboid
Cresho

(and anybody else who think 9/11 was a genuine 'terrorist' attack or that you can trust our governments)

You're being greatly deceived. Please watch at least this:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...ll+matrix+power

and if you have time:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...well+illuminati

I find it funny that you think I'd give any credit to a 9/11 conspiracy theory debunking statement from the US govt itself laugh.gif

Support 9/11? You're supporting lies, death, destruction, bullying and the NWO
dhns
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 09:48 AM)
I find it funny that you think I'd give any credit to a 9/11 conspiracy theory debunking statement from the US govt itself  laugh.gif

Well, I did not only find statements on the page cited by Cresho but also pictures and simply explanations. Some are more convincing to me others don't say too much.

Conspiracy theories might now interpret all these pictures as fakes (to hide governments mistakes) because I don't give Government any credit.

The same right allows me to view all the Conspiracy theories as fiction (with the intention to earn a lot of money) since I give them no credit because they are not official.

So, it is a discussion about believes and whom you believe to trust.
QUOTE
Support 9/11? You're supporting lies, death, destruction, bullying and the NWO
What do you want to say us with this?

What does "support 9/11" mean? There has been an event that has happened on that date in 2001. I myself remember coming back from summer vacation on that day. But what sould I support or not? I can only support different *interpretations* of the event, what the reasons, intentions, hidden agendas where, what it will mean for the future.

Lies: are as old as mankind
Death: yes, 9/11 was a horrible event of death and destruction
Bullying: maybe?
NWO: everything what we (each individual) do builds a new world, called "future". Some of us have more others have less influcence.

Yes, it is the Off topic forum.

-- hns
danboid
In this day and age 99% of people wholeheartedly believe that whatever is broadcast on the news programs in the mainstream media is exactly what is going on in the world- disagree and you're considered a nutjob because 'all the TV/radio stations and papers agree- all my friends are saying the same things' but anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the last 30 years should be more than well aware that Rupert Murdoch (just a puppet for higher, eviler people) is to what the public believe by shaping our media as what good ol' Billy boy is to our software industry. We all know how badly both of these models of information filtration, restriction and suppression must end ASAP- it will be at our terminal peril otherwise. Thank God for the internet, Linux and open source then! Information NEEDS to become and remain free or I could've never learned what I tell you of here!

As individuals we may not have much power, but together and with the force of good on our side we will be unstoppable!

By writing in the blank bits on monetary bills, printing T-shirts, changing your online sigs, getting a tattoo on your forehead biggrin.gif etc. etc.we can educate the world by spreading the teachings of America's greatest researcher - Jordan Maxwell and also widely distributing these two (or 3) very important URLS:

http://disclosureproject.org/

http://cheniere.org/ or http://www.seaspower.com/

Its that easy! These two links and a name can point everyone to that which the media is suppresing - the knowledge which will go most of the way to saving the world but isn't because of the greed of a very few evil but supremely powerful men.

I'm changing my sig now!
dhns
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 02:43 PM)
...

Hm. No. It is not the media suppressing the information (although I agree that they all copy the same bits). It is that it is *no* information.

And although your links are new to me, the content is not. UFO stories, Perpetuum Mobile and Tapping Vaccuum energy stories are there for several years. Do you remember Pons&Fleischmann? Nobody has proven them to be correct.

I think you have become the next victim of a more or less religious industry that lives from selling nonsense as the latest scientific news and that there is a worldwide conspiracy against the proponents and the truth. Therefore, they are the *good* guys who disclose hidden information the *bad* world is trying to hide.

If you do some research (e.g. on the Internet) you will find that this has happened through centuries. Start with people in ancient times who had a hidden recipie to make gold out of nothing.

May I also recommend to study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell and his work on scepticism. Remain sceptical, even for stories that tell you someone is trying to hide important information...

Well, and Sharp is telling us the wrong story about the Zaurus. In fact, they are hiding a successor to the latest models since they want to introduce it at the same day as Apple finally launches the iPhone. And it will be *much* better than an iPhone. It has a better display, is smaller, has a better battery, more memory, more features and everything you can imagine. This is all to make the world better.

Unfortunately, no newspaper is citing my story...

-- hns
Antikx
Dan,

First off, thanks for sharing. I agree with some of your points, applaud your enthusiasm and encourage you to keep looking for truth.

Secondly, and I hope I don't offend, but some things to keep in mind:
-People tend to be resistant to change and when change comes it tends to not happen instantly.
-I agree that there is a time to speak up. But I also think there needs to be a balance between speaking up and leading by example. I've caught more fish by waiting for them to take the bait then but asking them to act quickly.
ArchiMark
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 12 2007, 08:56 AM)
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 02:43 PM)
...

Hm. No. It is not the media suppressing the information (although I agree that they all copy the same bits). It is that it is *no* information.

And although your links are new to me, the content is not. UFO stories, Perpetuum Mobile and Tapping Vaccuum energy stories are there for several years. Do you remember Pons&Fleischmann? Nobody has proven them to be correct.

I think you have become the next victim of a more or less religious industry that lives from selling nonsense as the latest scientific news and that there is a worldwide conspiracy against the proponents and the truth. Therefore, they are the *good* guys who disclose hidden information the *bad* world is trying to hide.

If you do some research (e.g. on the Internet) you will find that this has happened through centuries. Start with people in ancient times who had a hidden recipie to make gold out of nothing.

May I also recommend to study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell and his work on scepticism. Remain sceptical, even for stories that tell you someone is trying to hide important information...

Well, and Sharp is telling us the wrong story about the Zaurus. In fact, they are hiding a successor to the latest models since they want to introduce it at the same day as Apple finally launches the iPhone. And it will be *much* better than an iPhone. It has a better display, is smaller, has a better battery, more memory, more features and everything you can imagine. This is all to make the world better.

Unfortunately, no newspaper is citing my story...

-- hns
*



AMEN, Brother hns!!!

Unfortunately, what some of our friends here are confusing being so-called 'open-minded' with 'critical-thinking' abilities!!

I can be be as open-minded as the next guy, but I always get my critical thinking turned on and watch the needle on the b#@$sh*& meter dial....

Seems like some have fallen prey to the 'conspiracy theory' group that sees one under every rock and 'Man' or 'America' is behind all of them....

UTTER RUBBISH!!!

And while we're at it, it's not 'Man' or 'America' that's causing so-called 'Global Warming' either...and real scientist/climatologist can tell you that if anything is happening climate change-wise it has more to do with changes in the sun and/or vents in the ocean floor.

These are natural and cyclical historical events...if you bother to check your history....

If anything, some warming usually precedes the Earth entering into a cooling period...so, I'd advise you to start stocking up on longjohns and wool sweaters!!

Of course, I might just be part of the conspiracy that just wants to sell everyone more wool goods and reap more corporate profits for the real masters (sorry, I can't reveal who they are, as you guys don't have the proper security clearance..)....

Oh boy, think I've revealed to much already....if you don't hear from me again, you'll know what happened....
Fushnchupsh
I think that was the point I was trying to make. While the link is terribly interesting, and truely makes you think, you really don't know what to believe. Everyone has some sort of bias that they are trying to push upon us as fact. I do however encourage everyone to be open minded and look at that movie Dan had posted. It's long, but interesting. I am not saying that I know what I feel, I just think it's important to get as much information as possible so you can develop your own train of thought. It's just a hard issue because you don't want to dephile the memory of those who were killed in the attacks. People are so sensative about it and so they should be.

I also reccomend everyone to do a little googling about the Real I.D. act. It's an American thing but still a touch big brotherish. I think the UK had something in the works like this as well?

I encourage everyone to be very active in politics at a local level. Part of the problem in the US is that we, the people, the regular people have sat around and passed the buck to the uppity ups (the neo-aristocracy if you will) and thus, lost some power. I tell everyone that I meet that I will be Mayor of my town someday and I will. After that, you might see me in the governor's seat wink.gif who knows.
But even those who don't have my insane want to fight for things I believe in can go to town meetings, etc. Let your opinion be known. That's the most important thing.

erm.... </rant> sorry

--Fish
ArchiMark
QUOTE(Fushnchupsh @ Apr 12 2007, 12:46 PM)
I think that was the point I was trying to make.  While the link is terribly interesting, and truely makes you think, you really don't know what to believe.  Everyone has some sort of bias that they are trying to push upon us as fact.  I do however encourage everyone to be open minded and look at that movie Dan had posted.  It's long, but interesting.  I am not saying that I know what I feel, I just think it's important to get as much information as possible so you can develop your own train of thought.  It's just a hard issue because you don't want to dephile the memory of those who were killed in the attacks.  People are so sensative about it and so they should be.   

I also reccomend everyone to do a little googling about the Real I.D. act.  It's an American thing but still a touch big brotherish.  I think the UK had something in the works like this as well?

I encourage everyone to be very active in politics at a local level.  Part of the problem in the US is that we, the people, the regular people have sat around and passed the buck to the uppity ups (the neo-aristocracy if you will) and thus, lost some power.  I tell everyone that I meet that I will be Mayor of my town someday and I will.  After that, you might see me in the governor's seat wink.gif who knows.
But even those who don't have my insane want to fight for things I believe in can go to town meetings, etc.  Let your opinion be known.  That's the most important thing.

erm....  </rant> sorry

--Fish
*


AMEN to that too, Brother Fish!!

wink.gif
danboid
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 12 2007, 03:56 PM)
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 02:43 PM)
...

Hm. No. It is not the media suppressing the information (although I agree that they all copy the same bits). It is that it is *no* information.

And although your links are new to me, the content is not. UFO stories, Perpetuum Mobile and Tapping Vaccuum energy stories are there for several years. Do you remember Pons&Fleischmann? Nobody has proven them to be correct.

I think you have become the next victim of a more or less religious industry that lives from selling nonsense as the latest scientific news and that there is a worldwide conspiracy against the proponents and the truth. Therefore, they are the *good* guys who disclose hidden information the *bad* world is trying to hide.

If you do some research (e.g. on the Internet) you will find that this has happened through centuries. Start with people in ancient times who had a hidden recipie to make gold out of nothing.

May I also recommend to study http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell and his work on scepticism. Remain sceptical, even for stories that tell you someone is trying to hide important information...

Well, and Sharp is telling us the wrong story about the Zaurus. In fact, they are hiding a successor to the latest models since they want to introduce it at the same day as Apple finally launches the iPhone. And it will be *much* better than an iPhone. It has a better display, is smaller, has a better battery, more memory, more features and everything you can imagine. This is all to make the world better.

Unfortunately, no newspaper is citing my story...

-- hns
*



Did you actually visit cheniere.org llike I've been advising? I don't think you even gave it a chance, judging from your lack of real feedback. It won't cost you a thing to do so, I'm not selling anything here, just hoping you will realise we've been greatly deceived and it needs to end. Maybe you're happy with being cheated, ripped off and lied to? Maybe you don't care about the planet our the future of our race? If so then none of this will matter to you. Fushnchups, on the other hand, HAS been bothered to take heed of my advice and he is recommending you give my links a chance.

On cheniere.org, amongst other things, it links to the full patents of a over-unity ('free energy') generator created and independently verified as working. This was invented by Hitachi in the 1980's but had its release thwarted by the Japanese mafia, the Yakuza. True, your man on the street wouldn't be able to afford to construct the designs (not that most would even consider such things exist in the first place) but the fact is the technology has been around for over a century and we're still using antiquated, non-renewable power sources- now we have Iraq...

This Hitachi device is just one example of a known, working over-unity device. There is a Swiss village called Linden which is powered by another over-unity device called the Testatika- I could give more examples but I've already given you enough to be going on with.

The question is not 'who's brainwashed?' it is really 'who ISN'T brainwashed?' and the answer to that is pretty much no-one. We're all victims, just that some people really have problems changing a world view or opinion on something they're believed and re-enforced for their entire life. I am fully aware that what I've been telling you all here is shocking and may sound totally ridiculous but don't mock me until you've seriously looked at all the info and vids I've linked to in this thread.

Yes, people DO make money out of selling books on so-called 'conspiracies', I'm not denying that, but when most people, including yourself now, talk of conspiracy you are implying that what I'm talking of is "misconceived, paranoid, unfounded, outlandish, irrational, or otherwise unworthy of serious consideration" - this is certainly not the case giving the amount of proof I've already offered and I can continue to provide more and more proof which you can then go on and research and verify this for yourself like I have.
Drake01
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 12 2007, 12:38 PM)
Unfortunately, what some of our friends here are confusing being so-called 'open-minded' with 'critical-thinking' abilities!!

I can be be as open-minded as the next guy, but I always get my critical thinking turned on and watch the needle on the b#@$sh*& meter dial....
*

I completely agree. I don't know enough facts to prove it's a conspiracy, and I'd guess it's a lot easier to prove it's a conspiracy than to actually prove that it isn't. The 9/11 conspiracy theories contain mostly a lot of coincidences that you can find to support almost anything if you look hard enough. Most of the rest is facts that I cannot prove or disprove.

QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 12 2007, 12:38 PM)
Of course, I might just be part of the conspiracy that just wants to sell everyone more wool goods and reap more corporate profits for the real masters (sorry, I can't reveal who they are, as you guys don't have the proper security clearance..)....

Oh boy, think I've revealed to much already....if you don't hear from me again, you'll know what happened....
*

It's been nice knowing you. smile.gif
ofels
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 12 2007, 07:38 PM)
And while we're at it, it's not 'Man' or 'America' that's causing so-called 'Global Warming' either...and real scientist/climatologist can tell you that if anything is happening climate change-wise it has more to do with changes in the sun and/or vents in the ocean floor.

These are natural and cyclical historical events...if you bother to check your history....


I did not want to jump into this discussion but....

Even leaving away the facts stated by the united stations, scientists all over the world and widely accepted by the remaing part of the world except the US and China that global warming is a consequence of industrialisation and pollution- would you really bet on it, continue as before and just wait what happens risking that Silicon Valley is becoming a hot and dry desert with no point of return ? Not to speak of the other consequences ? That is a very, very high risk you would be taking.

Those "real scientists" you have mentioned are a very small minority and the sun as a cause (which is morely used as an excuse for not seeing reasons for actions) has been contraticted several times. The influence of the (proven) solar activitites on the climate is simply not big enough to cause all the changes predicted.

'nuff said.

Oliver
Meanie
It's all quite simple, there are too many people who cause industrialisation and pollution. Just get rid off all the countries that cause the most problems, ie all the countries which presently or formerly have/had a name that start with a U. smile.gif

Of course I am only kidding, but I could claim to be a 'scientist' and dig up truck loads of documentation 'proving' that this theory was the only way to save human kind...

On the other hand, all Zaurii should be banned because they contain sillicon which is not biodegradable and hence bad for the environment...
adf
I dunno-- I think you kind of hit it. Too many people, period. We should probably have per region population caps.
desertrat
QUOTE(ofels @ Apr 13 2007, 05:22 AM)
Even leaving away the facts stated by the united stations, scientists all over the world and widely accepted by the remaing part of the world except the US and China that global warming is a consequence of industrialisation and pollution ...

I think it's only the US, or more specifically the Bush regime[1] which is continuing to deny that global warming is occurring and that it is caused by human activity. The first thing the Bush regime did when it illegally seized power was to tear up most of the the international accords agreed upon (but pending ratification) by the Clinton administration and this of course included the Kyoto Protocol. In contrast China has not only ratified Kyoto but is also prepared to agree to reductions in emissions of greenhouse gases even though its per capita emission levels are a tiny fraction of the USs.

[1]White House staff have and still are actively watering down reports from scientific community. The despicable John Bolton had done the same to UN statements on the subject.
desertrat
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 10:04 PM)
Did you actually visit cheniere.org llike I've been advising? I don't think you even gave it a chance, judging from your lack of real feedback. It won't cost you a thing to do so, I'm not selling anything here,
You may not be but the website sure is, the first page has at least 5 links to various dvds and books. Instead of selling those, why not just sell the damn machines/motors/generators/or whatever they're called. Eg on http://cheniere.org/misc/wankel.htm there is a picture of a "Working Replication of a Magnetic Wankel motor", why isn't Tom Bearden selling these?

QUOTE
On cheniere.org, amongst other things, it links to the full patents of a over-unity ('free energy') generator created and independently verified as working.
The USPTO must have been sleeping (what's new?) when they granted 6362718, because they are not supposed to grant patents to "perpetual motion" machines.

QUOTE
This was invented by Hitachi in the 1980's but had its release thwarted by the Japanese mafia, the Yakuza.
Wow, this sounds just like the plot for "Mission Earth" - Ron Hubbard smile.gif
Ling
If you are as tired of the 9/11 hoaxsters as I am, check out:

http://stoprosie.com and

http://fallingpanda.blogspot.com/

Enough already. As stated previous, the tin foil hat silliness of the "science" that must be believed in order to deny 9/11 is more than a stretch. The inclusion of that statement significantly diminishes some other worthwhile messages. In general, web petitions are a was of time. When significant numbers of people stop buying the products of advertisers, that works. If you don't believe me, when you order your egg Mcmuffin this morning, ask Don Imus. Cheers.
danboid
Would You Join Me In The Woods For A Casual Conversation by Alan Watt

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...332&q=alan+watt

<embed style="width:400px; height:326px;" id="VideoPlayback" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-6273187507553941332&hl=en-GB" flashvars=""> </embed>
Drake01
QUOTE(ofels @ Apr 13 2007, 12:22 AM)
Even leaving away the facts stated by the united stations, scientists all over the world and widely accepted by the remaing part of the world except the US and China that global warming is a consequence of industrialisation and pollution- would you really bet on it, continue as before and just wait what happens risking that Silicon Valley is becoming a hot and dry desert with no point of return ? Not to speak of the other consequences ? That is a very, very high risk you would be taking.
*

I have seen articles that indicate scientists are essentially being "blacklisted" if they do not support the popular global warming theory. The articles I've read indicate some correlation between industrialization and global warming, but I haven't seen anything that proves a cause-and-effect relationship. And, I've heard a number of arguments for a natural cycle.

Do I believe that pollution needs to be abated? Yes. Do I believe that we need to find better sources of energy? Yes. Do I believe that the world is doomed because of global warming caused by our society? I haven't seen enough unbiased evidence that I feel confident in making a decision either way.
Drake01
QUOTE(adf @ Apr 13 2007, 01:09 AM)
I dunno-- I think you kind of hit it.  Too many people, period.  We should probably have per region population caps.
*

Judging by what I see in the news, I think people should have a license to breed before contributing to the population. Too many bad parents out there today.
ArchiMark
QUOTE(Drake01 @ Apr 13 2007, 05:39 PM)
QUOTE(ofels @ Apr 13 2007, 12:22 AM)
Even leaving away the facts stated by the united stations, scientists all over the world and widely accepted by the remaing part of the world except the US and China that global warming is a consequence of industrialisation and pollution- would you really bet on it, continue as before and just wait what happens risking that Silicon Valley is becoming a hot and dry desert with no point of return ? Not to speak of the other consequences ? That is a very, very high risk you would be taking.
*

I have seen articles that indicate scientists are essentially being "blacklisted" if they do not support the popular global warming theory. The articles I've read indicate some correlation between industrialization and global warming, but I haven't seen anything that proves a cause-and-effect relationship. And, I've heard a number of arguments for a natural cycle.

Do I believe that pollution needs to be abated? Yes. Do I believe that we need to find better sources of energy? Yes. Do I believe that the world is doomed because of global warming caused by our society? I haven't seen enough unbiased evidence that I feel confident in making a decision either way.
*



AMEN to that too, Brother Drake01!!
desertrat
QUOTE(Drake01 @ Apr 14 2007, 12:39 AM)
I have seen articles that indicate scientists are essentially being "blacklisted" if they do not support the popular global warming theory.

Are you living in the US by any chance? Because the reports that we read (or I read) from outside the US is that scientists/researchers are gagged and/or denied funds if they don't toe the Bush regime's line on climate change:

New Scientist Editorial: Suppressing the science of climate change

QUOTE
The articles I've read indicate some correlation between industrialization and global warming, but I haven't seen anything that proves a cause-and-effect relationship.  And, I've heard a number of arguments for a natural cycle.

You've probably been influenced by this:
New Scientist: Oil giants' money fuels a climate of suspicion
Not sure what proof you need (accept):
industry+pollution=greenhouse gases=warming
Whilst you may argue over what contributes more to global warming - human activities or natural cycles, the cause of human activities and its effects on global warming should be in no doubt.

QUOTE
Yes.  Do I believe that the world is doomed because of global warming caused by our society?  I haven't seen enough unbiased evidence that I feel confident in making a decision either way.
Global warming = ice melts, it has been estimated that if all the ice at the poles melt then the sea level would rise by 70m - that would leave a substantial chunk of land under water and many countries would simply be wiped out (eg Bangladesh, the Netherlands).
Antikx
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 13 2007, 10:32 PM)
Global warming = ice melts, it has been estimated that if all the ice at the poles melt then the sea level would rise by 70m - that would leave a substantial chunk of land under water and many countries would simply be wiped out (eg Bangladesh, the Netherlands).
*


Us landlubbers in central Canada are looking forward to having ocean beaches, so keep driving you cars please.

(this is purely a joke and is not intended as a method to discredit what is happening in the world)
ntw1103
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 11 2007, 04:44 AM)
YOU are your own God,
*

I don't see this as matching the definition listed in the dictionary. ?
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value (This one does somewhat fit.)
4 : a powerful ruler (While the Denotation matches, the Connotation of this word does not follow this 4th definition in the strict sense.)

QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 08:43 AM)
Thank God for the internet, Linux and open source then!
*
So in your mind, You are responsible for the internet? Which god are you thanking?

QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 13 2007, 11:32 PM)
Global warming = ice melts, it has been estimated that if all the ice at the poles melt then the sea level would rise by 70m - that would leave a substantial chunk of land under water and many countries would simply be wiped out (eg Bangladesh, the Netherlands).
*

Umm... there is a fix, we just need to build more nuclear power plants:
http://powerscorecard.org/issue_detail.cfm?issue_id=5
http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/Pubs/RN/2006-07/07rn12.htm
More power plants means more power = More electronic toys. biggrin.gif
Just my 2+1/2 cents.
Drake01
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 13 2007, 11:32 PM)
Are you living in the US by any chance?

I am.

QUOTE
Whilst you may argue over what contributes more to global warming - human activities or natural cycles, the cause of human activities and its effects on global warming should be in no doubt.

I didn't say that human activities are affecting the environment. I think there are too many people on this rock. Deforestation and urbanization are likely affecting the planet. I've heard arguments that the agriculture industry is doing plenty to harm the environment in various ways, including cattle emissions.

QUOTE
Global warming = ice melts, it has been estimated that if all the ice at the poles melt then the sea level would rise by 70m - that would leave a substantial chunk of land under water and many countries would simply be wiped out (eg Bangladesh, the Netherlands).
*

The world is not a static place. If it were, then it would be a dead planet. Coastlines have been changing since the continents were formed. This planet is also an extremely complex interdependent system, and it's nearly impossible to predict the outcome of a change to one variable when there are so many others that have to be accounted for.

I've heard arguments that the greenhouse gas situation is a vicious cycle, and that the warming will cause more gases to be released which will accelerate the process. This seems unlikely or the climate would not be as stable as it has been for millennia. I've also heard arguments that the Earth "self-corrects" when something is out of balance. This can be seen in smaller ecosystems, so maybe there's some truth in this at a global scale.

I would also like to reiterate that I am completely in favor of moving away from fossil fuels, for various reasons. I don't use lawn fertilizer and weed killer because I don't feel the need to pollute my waterways for the sake of a pretty lawn. I dislike the amount of plastic packaging used in consumer products. I try to not buy "disposable" products (toilet paper excepted, of course).
ArchiMark
[quote=desertrat,Apr 13 2007, 09:32 PM]
Are you living in the US by any chance? Because the reports that we read (or I read) from outside the US is that scientists/researchers are gagged and/or denied funds if they don't toe the Bush regime's line on climate change: [/quote]

That's not correct.... I live in the US and it's the complete opposite situation here now.

Scientists and climatologists who don't go along with the Stalinist global warming kooks party line and drink their global warming kool-aid are being harassed and silenced...

[quote]The articles I've read indicate some correlation between industrialization and global warming, but I haven't seen anything that proves a cause-and-effect relationship. And, I've heard a number of arguments for a natural cycle.[/quote]
You've probably been influenced by this:
New Scientist: Oil giants' money fuels a climate of suspicion
Not sure what proof you need (accept):
industry+pollution=greenhouse gases=warming
Whilst you may argue over what contributes more to global warming - human activities or natural cycles, the cause of human activities and its effects on global warming should be in no doubt.[/quote]

Yes, they should be in doubt, as their is no actual scientific proof that human activities are contributing to global warming...

Besides the sun's solar activities and the ocean floor vents I've already mentioned in earlier posts are the main cause of climate change (not global warming as there are parts of the world that are actually cooling...), if anything else is contributing to the situation it's all the cows around the world producing methane gas every day!!

So, maybe the global warming crowd should focus there energy (no pun intended...) on either

1) Killing all the cows and making them into hamburgers or

2) Putting catalytic converters on their rear ends or

3) Collecting all the methane gas so that we convert our cars to running on methane and have cheap gas!

[quote]Yes. Do I believe that the world is doomed because of global warming caused by our society? I haven't seen enough unbiased evidence that I feel confident in making a decision either way.
[/quote]Global warming = ice melts, it has been estimated that if all the ice at the poles melt then the sea level would rise by 70m - that would leave a substantial chunk of land under water and many countries would simply be wiped out (eg Bangladesh, the Netherlands).
*

[/quote]


The fact is that some places are melting but some place are not melting but growing...

Once again, I think that there are too many non-critical thinkers out there you who just swallow hook, line, and sinker, what the anti-American, anti-industrialization, anti-capitalist, anti-Bush, leftist, environmental wacko crowd wants you to believe.....

Think some of you need to widen your horizons a bit.....expand your reading lists and listening lists too....get out of the 'echo chamber' you're in where you're just repeating the same stuff back and forth between your same like-minded buddies without ever really hearing other legimate perspectives....

Just my 2 (as we say in the good ol' USA...).....

wink.gif
desertrat
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 14 2007, 07:51 PM)
That's not correct.... I live in the US
ergo
QUOTE
and it's the complete opposite situation here now.
wink.gif

QUOTE
Scientists and climatologists who don't go along with the Stalinist global warming kooks party line and drink their global warming kool-aid are being harassed and silenced...
Do you have any articles or references to backup the above statements?

QUOTE
Yes, they should be in doubt, as their is no actual scientific proof that human activities are contributing to global warming...
The IPCC (www.ipcc.ch has plenty of scientific data, whether you accept them as proof is for you to decide.

I will re-iterate my simple proof:

1) human activities leads to industry and pollution
2) industry+pollution = greenhouse gases
3) greenhouse gases = warming

I'm sure you would agree with (1) and (2). As for (3), look up the defintion of greenhouse gases, greenhouse gases are so-called precisely because they contribute to warming. www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/95report/glossary.html

QUOTE
Besides the sun's solar activities and the ocean floor vents I've already mentioned in earlier posts are the main cause of climate change (not global warming as there are parts of the world that are actually cooling...), if anything else is contributing to the situation it's all the cows around the world producing methane gas every day!!
No one is denying the fact that a million and one other factors contribute to climate change, but you seem to be denying that human activities is one of them.

QUOTE
The fact is that some places are melting but some place are not melting but growing...
You can probably cite exceptions for almost anything. The key point is the global trend - the big picture - not isolated incidents.

QUOTE
Once again, I think that there are too many non-critical thinkers out there you who just swallow hook, line, and sinker, ...

Think some of you need to widen your horizons a bit.....expand your reading lists and listening lists too....get out of the 'echo chamber' you're in where you're just repeating the same stuff back and forth between your same like-minded buddies without ever really hearing other legimate perspectives....
I couldn't have put it better myself tongue.gif
adf
This is really simple. We have overbred and need to work on reducing and balancing our population. Once we have a plan for that we can concentrate on keeping the planet habitable unti we have a truly optimal population and can let the place heal itself.. In the meantime polluting less is probably a good idea, just on general principles. Any "solution" that doesn't emphasize depopulation seems to me like a prolonged and painful suicide. On the other hand, maybe soylent green isn't so bad.
Meanie
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 15 2007, 03:41 PM)
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 14 2007, 07:51 PM)
That's not correct.... I live in the US
ergo
QUOTE
and it's the complete opposite situation here now.
wink.gif

QUOTE
Scientists and climatologists who don't go along with the Stalinist global warming kooks party line and drink their global warming kool-aid are being harassed and silenced...
Do you have any articles or references to backup the above statements?

QUOTE
Yes, they should be in doubt, as their is no actual scientific proof that human activities are contributing to global warming...
The IPCC (www.ipcc.ch has plenty of scientific data, whether you accept them as proof is for you to decide.

I will re-iterate my simple proof:

1) human activities leads to industry and pollution
2) industry+pollution = greenhouse gases
3) greenhouse gases = warming

I'm sure you would agree with (1) and (2). As for (3), look up the defintion of greenhouse gases, greenhouse gases are so-called precisely because they contribute to warming. www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/95report/glossary.html

QUOTE
Besides the sun's solar activities and the ocean floor vents I've already mentioned in earlier posts are the main cause of climate change (not global warming as there are parts of the world that are actually cooling...), if anything else is contributing to the situation it's all the cows around the world producing methane gas every day!!
No one is denying the fact that a million and one other factors contribute to climate change, but you seem to be denying that human activities is one of them.

QUOTE
The fact is that some places are melting but some place are not melting but growing...
You can probably cite exceptions for almost anything. The key point is the global trend - the big picture - not isolated incidents.

QUOTE
Once again, I think that there are too many non-critical thinkers out there you who just swallow hook, line, and sinker, ...

Think some of you need to widen your horizons a bit.....expand your reading lists and listening lists too....get out of the 'echo chamber' you're in where you're just repeating the same stuff back and forth between your same like-minded buddies without ever really hearing other legimate perspectives....
I couldn't have put it better myself tongue.gif
*



we just need to start a few wars to kill some people to reduce the over population which produces pollution and increases green house gases... oh wait, someone already did that but he wasnt very honest about the reason he wanted to wage war....
desertrat
QUOTE(adf @ Apr 15 2007, 05:59 AM)
This is really simple.  We have overbred and need to work on reducing and balancing our population.
That is good as a long term goal. When people talk of over-population I bet most will be thinking of places like China and India, and indeed they are, however reducing populations in those countries isn't going to significantly reduce pollution. Killing off China and India, with about 30-35% of the world's population would reduce pollution by maybe 10-15%, whereas killing off the US, with about 5% of the world's population would reduce pollution by about 20-25%[1]. Hence it would be far better value for money to kill off the US smile.gif
Assuming that we can't commit mass genocide then the short term goal is to reduce pollution.

[1] these are figures pulled out of my arse but they should be more or less accurate give or take a few orders of magnitude smile.gif
danboid
It is my personal belief that a big contributor to climate change has been all the various nuclear tests. However, the current media hubbub on climate change and Iraq are just distractions from something, much, much more important...

On Wednesday, May 9th 2001, over twenty military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses came forward at the National Press Club in Washington, DC to establish the reality of UFOs or extraterrestrial vehicles, extraterrestrial life forms, and resulting advanced energy and propulsion technologies.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...closure+project

Its original broadcast was sabotaged but you can watch the full event for free on Google video. EVERYBODY needs to watch this because it was a truly historic event. Its a shame they don't show any good UFO footage bu there's lots of that out there already (like the OVNI vids, 2005 UFO Conference etc.).

In the video they talk of anti-gravity machines manufactured by people like Lockheed Skunkworks and ARVs (Alien reproduction vehicles) that can travel at least mach 20 that have been known to exist since the early 70's and they show the designs such craft in the video.

A few months after this press conference we all know what happened (911) and that has been the main focus of the world news broadcasts since. IMO, and increasingly many others, the full open, honest disclosure and discussion of ET life and the associated technologies is BY FAR and away the most important issue today because if the military-industrial complex and our governments co-operated then we could see end end to poverty, famine, the (potentially) impending energy crisis as well as entering a whole new level of consciousness by becoming an inter-galactic society.
Cresho
QUOTE(danboid @ Apr 12 2007, 12:48 AM)
Cresho

(and anybody else who think 9/11 was a genuine 'terrorist' attack or that you can trust our governments)

You're being greatly deceived. Please watch at least this:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...ll+matrix+power

and if you have time:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...well+illuminati

I find it funny that you think I'd give any credit to a 9/11 conspiracy theory debunking statement from the US govt itself  laugh.gif

Support 9/11? You're supporting lies, death, destruction, bullying and the NWO
*



It' interesting you mention this but alot of people are aware of this.

anyway, if you been reading up on other stuff, the combined reading i have done leads to a big war that will destroy 40% of the population. This needs to happen to control population and certain power. this is supposedly going to happen within 10 years. That is the speculation. Free mason is true and is very embedded in the states like we already know and also in money. use google maps and look at the white house. It is an inverted pentagram and the pillars in each corner represents...well ill let you decide. Free masons wanted this architecture to appear. There are many things many many people are aware but the only way i see us stopping this is to tell everybody to stop the system by not using their money.....end of line.
desertrat
Alright Danboid, I took the bait, I downloaded one of the Jordan Maxwell videos (Jordan Maxwell -Basic Slideshow Presentation (Hidden Symbols)), and watched it (I try to keep an open mind). I've gotten halfway through it, and all I've seen is that Maxwell attributes anything that contains one or more of the four basic geometric shapes:
circle - 1 line
cross - 2 lines
triangle - 3 lines
square - 4 lines
as Masonic symbols. Incidently I just noticed that I have a piece of chalk (for cues - snooker, pool) sitting on my desk and according to Maxwell's criteria it most certainly is produced by a Masonic company, it says Triangle Chalk (trademark registered), on one side it has a circle containing a triangle, on another it has another Masonic symbol - a crown with the caption "KING of them all".

I'm just wondering before I watch the rest of it - does it get any better?
Cresho
hmm....
here are some interesting articles which i cannot confirm as legitamite but adds to the fuel of conspiracy theory
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=17432
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/03/294/

I also read articles stating that bush and the media is brainwashing U.S. citizens making us think there is a problem over there. They have a different opinion and view things differently but i cannot post any extra information. according to other readings, we will have 2 things happen within the next 3 years, a female president or bush still running the country. The last thing is the big war. and the draft.

food for your thoughts. this is how many people we have killed already. We the people.

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

and finaly, i read somewhere with an update to a quarter of a million deaths.....

We estimate there were 98,000 extra deaths (95% CI 8000-194 000) during the post-war period.
http://www.slate.com/id/2108887/

this is why U.S. media television is totally bullshit. They never mention how many people we killed. what kind of news reporting is that?
Cresho
and finally....how many deaths in iraq..total over 2.7 million

http://mwcnews.net/content/view/12261/42/

and if you dont like this news information cuz its not legit, try a us version

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/mi...=rssnyt&emc=rss

which is a bunch of bullshit since nobody knows how to count dead people.
adf
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 15 2007, 09:31 AM)
QUOTE(adf @ Apr 15 2007, 05:59 AM)
This is really simple.  We have overbred and need to work on reducing and balancing our population.
That is good as a long term goal. When people talk of over-population I bet most will be thinking of places like China and India, and indeed they are, however reducing populations in those countries isn't going to significantly reduce pollution. Killing off China and India, with about 30-35% of the world's population would reduce pollution by maybe 10-15%, whereas killing off the US, with about 5% of the world's population would reduce pollution by about 20-25%[1]. Hence it would be far better value for money to kill off the US smile.gif
Assuming that we can't commit mass genocide then the short term goal is to reduce pollution.

[1] these are figures pulled out of my arse but they should be more or less accurate give or take a few orders of magnitude smile.gif
*


You are probably underestimating 2 things

China's actual industrial output

The comparative technical ease with whcih the US could reduce green house gas emissions

no three things

the relative ease with which a lower population density can become environmentally sustainable. I'd guess that it might actually be more difficult for europe or china to meet a meaningful sustainablility standard than the US, despite the currently horrid situation in the states.

Keep in mind that I am talking technical feasability, not the cultural inertia of ignorance.
harvell
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 14 2007, 09:41 PM)
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Apr 14 2007, 07:51 PM)
That's not correct.... I live in the US
ergo
QUOTE
and it's the complete opposite situation here now.
wink.gif

QUOTE
Scientists and climatologists who don't go along with the Stalinist global warming kooks party line and drink their global warming kool-aid are being harassed and silenced...
Do you have any articles or references to backup the above statements?

QUOTE
Yes, they should be in doubt, as their is no actual scientific proof that human activities are contributing to global warming...
The IPCC (www.ipcc.ch has plenty of scientific data, whether you accept them as proof is for you to decide.

I will re-iterate my simple proof:

1) human activities leads to industry and pollution
2) industry+pollution = greenhouse gases
3) greenhouse gases = warming

I'm sure you would agree with (1) and (2). As for (3), look up the defintion of greenhouse gases, greenhouse gases are so-called precisely because they contribute to warming. www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/1605/95report/glossary.html

QUOTE
Besides the sun's solar activities and the ocean floor vents I've already mentioned in earlier posts are the main cause of climate change (not global warming as there are parts of the world that are actually cooling...), if anything else is contributing to the situation it's all the cows around the world producing methane gas every day!!
No one is denying the fact that a million and one other factors contribute to climate change, but you seem to be denying that human activities is one of them.

QUOTE
The fact is that some places are melting but some place are not melting but growing...
You can probably cite exceptions for almost anything. The key point is the global trend - the big picture - not isolated incidents.

QUOTE
Once again, I think that there are too many non-critical thinkers out there you who just swallow hook, line, and sinker, ...

Think some of you need to widen your horizons a bit.....expand your reading lists and listening lists too....get out of the 'echo chamber' you're in where you're just repeating the same stuff back and forth between your same like-minded buddies without ever really hearing other legimate perspectives....
I couldn't have put it better myself tongue.gif
*



Whoohoo!!! nothing like insightful debate rather than hapless conjecture to get the brain juices and google searches going. I have to back up my silicon valley brother hear and post this link of a foxnews report of scientist losing their job by not being lemming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJxwl69mrEM

It's hard to be totally convinced of global warming when you have some record lows in the year that somewhat messed up our agricultural economy

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...MNGG9OGQFA1.DTL

A pretty good vid is The Great Global Warming Swindle. Put out by a couple of scientist not only in the US. Don't get me wrong I'm all about saving money, oceans , trees, and cutting down pollution. But don't try to scare me and use my tax dollars on things that may not be true.
danboid
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 15 2007, 04:04 PM)
Alright Danboid, I took the bait, I downloaded one of the Jordan Maxwell videos (Jordan Maxwell -Basic Slideshow Presentation (Hidden Symbols)), and watched it (I try to keep an open mind). I've gotten halfway through it, and all I've seen is that Maxwell attributes anything that contains one or more of the four basic geometric shapes:
  circle - 1 line
  cross - 2 lines
  triangle - 3 lines
  square - 4 lines
as Masonic symbols. Incidently I just noticed that I have a piece of chalk (for cues - snooker, pool) sitting on my desk and according to Maxwell's criteria it most certainly is produced by a Masonic company, it says Triangle Chalk (trademark registered), on one side it has a circle containing a triangle, on another it has another Masonic symbol - a crown with the caption "KING of them all".

I'm just wondering before I watch the rest of it - does it get any better?
*


Symbology is a very important issue that anyone who doesn't appreciate being covertly manipulated and deceived needs to seriously study. It is doubly important to anyone who wants to understand (or debunk) the teachings of the various religious orders and secret societies, and the astrological, mathematical, spiritual or otherwise knowledge simultaneously hidden/revealed within. The sad truth is that 99% of the population is symbolically illiterate and so are oblivious to the 1000's of encoded messages that they see every day. They may not understand these images consciously but they often have a certain effect on your sub-conscious because your mind actually stores and retrieves information through symbols and the mind has sub-conscious access to a so-called 'group mind' (I can't remember the official psychological term for this) which knows their meaning through having worshiped or known such patterns for thousands of years. It is a higher form of communication than verbal and is actually a stepping stone towards telepathy and holographic communication.

Advertisers and other people in the media are well aware of sacred symbology, colour symbology and its effect on the human mind and so they use this to their advantage. True, not every logo has esoteric meaning but these are more often than not the exceptions.

EDIT

Apart from Jordan Maxwell, who I've mentioned here already, I'd recommend anyone wanting to know more on symbology check out Michael Tsarions "Subversive use of sacred symbolism in the media" and Manly Hall's "Secret Teachings of all ages"
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