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maximusz
I have been looking for a replacement for the Z for a few months - this looks like a perfect match -

http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/art...php?storyid=524

I have no idea how it took us all so long to find this. On the 12th April, a date in Internet history and well before the Intel IDF, Hardspell published this image of the Fujitsu UMPC.

It looks like a rendering. They also published the following specs.

* Stealey processor - 800MHz
* 1GB memory,
* 40GB hard disk,
* SD reader,
* two cameras,
* 5.6 inches 1024x600 screen.
* Equipped two cell battery,
* Weight:499g.
* four cell battery can last 7 hours
[some spelling corrected from source]

The specs are in line with McCaslin/UMPC 2007. 3.5 hours for a two cell battery sounds good and slightly more than I had expected for a small screen device although this could be the best-case figure. Interesting to note the 1024x600 resolution on a 5.6" screen. Too high? In addition to those specs, I think there's a fingerprint reader in there somewhere.

I think it's time to get this device into the product database so we can track news, images and specs. Will do that later today.


VIdeo -- http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/200...su_umpc_vi.html

letś just hope this gets out there in the next few months!!!
ZDevil
Shall we also forget about our pocket? smile.gif
maximusz
QUOTE(ZDevil @ Apr 24 2007, 02:13 PM)
Shall we also forget about our pocket?  smile.gif
*

This is the best replacement that I have seen so far..... is there something better out there?
cycle_55
It definitely fits into the category of "interesting small laptop" but not in "Zaurus replacement". smile.gif

cycle_55
HoloVector
Too big for me. Looks like another vista unit so, no auto-resume. Pretty much a nonstarter for me.
Ling
Max,

I have had mine a few days now. Pocketsize isn't much good if you can't do what you need to do. I now have a useful device rather than one I HAD to constantly tinker with and never got quite right. If you must put it in your pocket, this isn't it. Good luck.
Meanie
QUOTE(Ling @ Apr 25 2007, 09:37 AM)
Max,

I have had mine a few days now. Pocketsize isn't much good if you can't do what you need to do. I now have a useful device rather than one I HAD to constantly tinker with and never got quite right. If you must put it in your pocket, this isn't it. Good luck.
*



just use the damn zaurus. it is still kicking ass! everyone who sees me using it is amazed about what it can do and wants to get one.

the Z is well designed hardware wise and will probably last a few more years by which time plenty of new devices will be out there. dont worry about all the new wannabes. give them a few years to mature before they are any good. the zaurus took several generations before it became this suprior mini pocketable laptop.

on the zaurus you either use a mature and stable distro which has eveything working, or those bleeding edge distros that use the latest kernels, etc... and are a bit faster but have half the features not working. its really up to you whether you want to actually use your unit productively or play around with it...
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(Meanie @ Apr 24 2007, 06:50 PM)
QUOTE(Ling @ Apr 25 2007, 09:37 AM)
Max,

I have had mine a few days now. Pocketsize isn't much good if you can't do what you need to do. I now have a useful device rather than one I HAD to constantly tinker with and never got quite right. If you must put it in your pocket, this isn't it. Good luck.
*



just use the damn zaurus. it is still kicking ass! everyone who sees me using it is amazed about what it can do and wants to get one.

the Z is well designed hardware wise and will probably last a few more years by which time plenty of new devices will be out there. dont worry about all the new wannabes. give them a few years to mature before they are any good. the zaurus took several generations before it became this suprior mini pocketable laptop.

on the zaurus you either use a mature and stable distro which has eveything working, or those bleeding edge distros that use the latest kernels, etc... and are a bit faster but have half the features not working. its really up to you whether you want to actually use your unit productively or play around with it...
*


Hear hear!
jfv
QUOTE(Ling @ Apr 24 2007, 06:37 PM)
Max,

I have had mine a few days now. Pocketsize isn't much good if you can't do what you need to do. I now have a useful device rather than one I HAD to constantly tinker with and never got quite right. If you must put it in your pocket, this isn't it. Good luck.
*


You mean you have one of these fujitsus? Are they for sale? More info, please.
nilch
While the specs are indeed impressive, nothing beats the Zaurus inthe price-performance comparison - Yet.

I mean the Fujitsu will probably sell for something like $2000 - thats too high a price for portability. The Zaurus wins hands down for this reason alone - for the price of a good portable solution, it does more than what you expected.

Really speaking who wants a portable device to run the whole gamut of word processing and spreadsheeting and picture editing in its full glory while on the move.
An on-the-move solution is wholly different from a desktop based (even laptop) solution. So just cramming in a desktop powered thingie in a portable package doesnt always make a winning solution.
This is where the price-performance issue comes in. Together. Not just price, not just performance alone.

My 2 cents.
ralphrmartin
QUOTE(maximusz @ Apr 24 2007, 09:02 PM)
    * 5.6 inches 1024x600 screen.


That's overkill. There's no way anyone can read a screen that size of that resolution. This is about a specification war, not a usable device.
raduga
QUOTE(ralphrmartin @ Apr 25 2007, 07:53 AM)
QUOTE(maximusz @ Apr 24 2007, 09:02 PM)
    * 5.6 inches 1024x600 screen.


That's overkill. There's no way anyone can read a screen that size of that resolution. This is about a specification war, not a usable device.
*



Dunno. Those pixels aren't a whole lot smaller than the Zaurus' 3.5" @ 640x480

I've found (poking at a sony UX-91) that downscaling its native 4.5" @ 1024x600
to 800x600 helps with readability considerably;
so if there's an option to downscale the Fujitsu screen, it could help;
if its not too fuzzy or artifacted.
zmiq2
I always see people complaining about too many resolution for a small screen; that's a wrong statement:

1) screen resolution, the more, the better (well maybe not but because of power requirements)

2) another issue is the font you use to display text, menus, ... which in moder UI is completely adjustable, so you can get your apps show at the size you want

So please, never complain about too much resolution and learn how to make your UI fonts at the proper size your eyes need !!
ralphrmartin
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Apr 25 2007, 07:43 PM)
I always see people complaining about too many resolution for a small screen; that's a wrong statement:

1) screen resolution, the more, the better (well maybe not but because of power requirements)

2) another issue is the font you use to display text, menus, ... which in moder UI is completely adjustable, so you can get your apps show at the size you want

So please, never complain about too much resolution and learn how to make your UI fonts at the proper size your eyes need !!
*


In principle for (1) you are right. Agreed.

For (2), I know of NO modern operating system where you can change the onscreen resolution (i.e. you can tell the system I have x pixels per inch, please draw things accordingly). It is NOT just the font, but the size of the menubar, buttons, and all UI elements. There is some talk of resolution independence in Leopard, to some degree. I can see NO controls in Vista or Linux to tell the whole system of the dpi resolution.
Meanie
QUOTE(ralphrmartin @ Apr 26 2007, 06:01 PM)
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Apr 25 2007, 07:43 PM)
I always see people complaining about too many resolution for a small screen; that's a wrong statement:

1) screen resolution, the more, the better (well maybe not but because of power requirements)

2) another issue is the font you use to display text, menus, ... which in moder UI is completely adjustable, so you can get your apps show at the size you want

So please, never complain about too much resolution and learn how to make your UI fonts at the proper size your eyes need !!
*


In principle for (1) you are right. Agreed.

For (2), I know of NO modern operating system where you can change the onscreen resolution (i.e. you can tell the system I have x pixels per inch, please draw things accordingly). It is NOT just the font, but the size of the menubar, buttons, and all UI elements. There is some talk of resolution independence in Leopard, to some degree. I can see NO controls in Vista or Linux to tell the whole system of the dpi resolution.
*



have a look at project lookingglass
zmiq2
well,

- on my gnome desktop right now, I go to applications-settings-gnome controls center-font, and there I can choose application font, desktop font, window title font and terminal font

- other programs let you select its own program font

- as gnome-themes, I can also see some liek 'large text and icons',

- in firefox - preferences you can also select font for different text placements,

I think it's doable, but I agree that maybe a general setting to just zoom everything would make things easier
desertrat
QUOTE(ralphrmartin @ Apr 26 2007, 08:01 AM)
For (2), I know of NO modern operating system where you can change the onscreen resolution (i.e. you can tell the system I have x pixels per inch, please draw things accordingly). It is NOT just the font, but the size of the menubar, buttons, and all UI elements. There is some talk of resolution independence in Leopard, to some degree. I can see NO controls in Vista or Linux to tell the whole system of the dpi resolution.

Vista is new, not modern smile.gif

I'm not sure a DPI setting will be all that useful because you can fine tune all the gui elements using styles/themes:

In KDE you can easily change the font sizes used, you can change the styles which makes the sizes of the various gui elements like slider bars, buttons etc, larger or smaller.

I don't know about Vista but even Win98 allowed you to change various aspects of the gui (font size, icon size, title bar size etc) and have them incorporated into themes.
Da_Blitz
playing with font sizes or font colors is always bad under windows, i used to have an inverse theme where the greay was black and the black was red (ie text and such) but there are so many apps out there that hard code the colors instead of using somthing like the predefined toobar color

i assum linux is the same to some degree (never tried) however at least i can submit a patch wink.gif

actually linux may have it better as most of the theme and coloring stuff is handeled by the WM and theme egine as far as i can tell

one thing i would love to see is compositing support on more platforms, even those without 3d, waht that means is that when you uncover a window (from having somthing on top of it) it just majically displays it instead of getting the app to redraw it, i ma be misinformed but i dont belive X does this out of the box as it generally needs more ram (ie you have to give each app an area in mem to draw its entire screen and you cut an passte them together to display the screen, moving one app means the compositor jdoes all teh work and the apps dont need to redraw)

reason i bring that up is byrel has that nice zoom feature and "invert colors on screen" which would be nice for these things, the inversion is great for apps at night (i have had problems with gpsdrive and its "inverse mode" and zoom wolud be handy on such a small screen, in fact if i could just use the screen keyboard on the kohjinsha as the area to look at movement thingy then it would be perfect with zoom

now if i could just work out how to get those 2 features without byrel/compiz i would be fine.
ralphrmartin
QUOTE(Meanie @ Apr 26 2007, 09:49 AM)
have a look at project lookingglass


It's just that, a project, not the underpinning of a current operating system.

I'm not saying this sort of thing is not possible. I am just saying that current OSes do not fully support resolution independence. And until they do, too many pixels on a small screen becomes illegible. I was seriously thinking of buying a Sony Vaio to replace my Zaurus until I tried it and found it to be completely unusable because the user interface was unreadable.
Da_Blitz
i thought ciaro was suposed to help some of that by moving away from pixels and going to dpi as well as vector graphics (thats what i got out of it)

as far as i can tell the only things on PCs that have display independence is websites where the designers are not too "hands on" anything with well structured data seems to flow well
zmiq2
But for the browser design, if using firefox, there are a lot of extension and/or greasemonkey scripts to actually adapt any lazy-windows-1900x1600 designed website to render properly n your environment.

As always, it's not an easy task but doable.
Da_Blitz
as always YMMV right wink.gif

actually i was talking about sites designed for 800x600 on smaller screens (like the Z) as it seems sites designed for 1024 are becomming more common

the worst would have to be the heavy ad loaded news sites
Antikx
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Apr 27 2007, 04:40 AM)
the worst would have to be the heavy ad loaded news sites
*

A custom hosts file really helps with those sites.
(not with the layout, but the amount of crap on the screen)
speculatrix
QUOTE(desertrat @ Apr 26 2007, 01:42 PM)
In KDE you can easily change the font sizes used, you can change the styles which makes the sizes of the various gui elements like slider bars, buttons etc, larger or smaller.
*


yup, in KDE you can set the sizes of icons in the start menu (in windows you have two choices).. in fact, you can tune almost everything, but not all options are trivially available, probably because it'd be overwhelming.

this Fujitsu with v high res means you'd have beautiful smooth screen fonts , less need for anti-aliassing, very detailed photos etc.
speculatrix
found a video showing the swivel
http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkontherun/200...su_umpc_vi.html
tml
I wonder why they never show the keyboard. From what I can see it looks like a grid layout with square-shaped keys. Otherwise, from comparison with the hands, the form factor looks good to me. It's a pity none of these devices makes it to Europe.
Ling
QUOTE(jfv @ Apr 24 2007, 07:55 PM)
QUOTE(Ling @ Apr 24 2007, 06:37 PM)
Max,

I have had mine a few days now. Pocketsize isn't much good if you can't do what you need to do. I now have a useful device rather than one I HAD to constantly tinker with and never got quite right. If you must put it in your pocket, this isn't it. Good luck.
*


You mean you have one of these fujitsus? Are they for sale? More info, please.
*



No, I think there has been some editing of the original post. When I responded to it, it was referencing the Libretto U100. Otherwise, I really need to have a talk with my crack dealer because he is giving me some bad stuff. I imagine that the model listed now costs about as much as my car. Didn't mean to get Meanie upset, so I will just shut up now.
gr8ful
Here's more information and a mini review of the Fujitsu for those who have been waiting for more details on this potential Zaurus replacement.


http://www.umpcportal.com/modules/news/art...php?storyid=592


Be sure to check out the link to the hands-on report by PC World.
ZDevil
In terms of form factors, this beast is literally the evolved (mutated) version of Zaurus!
Given the hardware, it is questionable about its performance running XP, perhaps forget about Vista ...

But having it run *nix will be super cool!

More links:

Fujitsu official site:
http://www.fmworld.net/biz/fmv/product/hard/blb0704/u8240/

Mobile Daily News Blog (in japanese):
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yamadaatmn/20070516/1179320510
speculatrix
If the device could be fitted with a flash SSD and underclocked, it'd probably have a formidable battery life... I agree it looks like a mutant ninja hero zaurus that escaped from Sharp's lab.
zmiq2
This really looks like my next zaurus, at least.

It also has sd AND cf, so I'll be able to reuse all my cf-cards-stock-i-thought-useless !!

I wish that there exist a 3G-HSDPA cf card compatible with this unit.

As far as downclocking, I pretty much think that'll be possible, since it's based in the latest intel portable technology. I also think it could be feasible to just disconnect the HD and make it boot from SD !!

I'm really eager to see linux on this, even I realize that those units won't be available in general until aprox. 6months from now; another wait, but I'm already used to wait for the wifi-bluetooth-zaurus anyway !
speculatrix
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ May 16 2007, 04:31 PM)
This really looks like my next zaurus, at least.

It also has sd AND cf, so I'll be able to reuse all my cf-cards-stock-i-thought-useless !!

I wish that there exist a 3G-HSDPA cf card compatible with this unit.

As far as downclocking, I pretty much think that'll be possible, since it's based in the latest intel portable technology. I also think it could be feasible to just disconnect the HD and make it boot from SD !!

I'm really eager to see linux on this, even I realize that those units won't be available in general until aprox. 6months from now; another wait, but I'm already used to wait for the wifi-bluetooth-zaurus anyway !
*


indeed, a CF slot is a valuable commodity in this case. Could use a CF to PCMCIA adaptor and a 3G card in that, or of course use USB 3g adaptor.

if the internal hdd is PATA, then could use PATA to CF adaptor for solid state operation if you can't stretch to a true SSD flash "hard drive".

I hope that conics decide to sell these!
desertrat
QUOTE(gr8ful @ May 16 2007, 01:01 PM)
Be sure to check out the link to the hands-on report by PC World.
Maybe my definition of "hands-on" is different. The above report is just a regurgitation of the specs fluffed out with some prose. There's nothing "hands-on" about it.
zmiq2
A hands-on review is available at

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/17/pr...ujitsu_fmv8240/

the first picture reminds me when I first saw the zaurus c700; I thought: K it's here now; let's wait for the next version (first ones always have some problems) and go with it!
freizugheit
Looking at the specs, it resemble Zaurus's hardware with the latest graphic card and built-in mobile phone modem.
speculatrix
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ May 18 2007, 01:46 AM)
A hands-on review is available at

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/17/pr...ujitsu_fmv8240/

the first picture reminds me when I first saw the zaurus c700; I thought: K it's here now; let's wait for the next version (first ones always have some problems) and go with it!
*


indeed, the followup updates when they fix whatever niggles are present should be a winner... at the very least I'll wait until there are enough around that I could be confident it will work reliably. I'm glad I didn't buy an OQO for example.
desertrat
QUOTE(freizugheit @ May 18 2007, 01:12 AM)
Looking at the specs, it resemble Zaurus's hardware with the latest graphic card and built-in mobile phone modem.
There are no telephony features in it, plus it doesn't have BT nor IRDA so connecting to a phone is difficult without further hardware. Although it does come with a couple of features that are probably useless to linux users until someone can reverse engineer the hardware - a fingerprint recogniser and a USB lock.

And it's got the obligatory (windoze only) CTRL-ALT-DEL key smile.gif
Da_Blitz
personally i think that a phone is better than a cf 3g card, it brings its own battery wink.gif
zmiq2
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ May 18 2007, 04:18 AM)
personally i think that a phone is better than a cf 3g card, it brings its own battery wink.gif
*


I think that's the problem: once all those twitter updates drained your battery, you are not able to make an important call.

Since I consider the ability to call a #1 priority, my preference is to have a phone always ready for calling, and other stuff for web use.

What I considered, given the price of some hanset, is to strip one and hard-attach-wired it to the usb port, so it always goes with you. A brute-DIY usb 3g modem, I know.
raduga
Hrm.
So tempting, so tempting.

I've built a mockup, though, and the Fujitsu definitely will NOT fit
in my pants' pocket. Close, but, NOPE.

I'm going to try with the FlipStart dimensions, next- see if that's any better.
They're pretty similar in total volume, but FS has an option for a mini-battery
that's reputed to be much improved.

FS users report that its noisy. I'm wondering about heat.
Any Zaurers tried one yet?
ZDevil
Still, as always, one big concern is its battery capacity. The spec sheet says the battery is 7.2V 2600mAh ( http://www.fmworld.net/biz/fmv/product/har...u8240/spec.html ), with power consumption from 9W to 40W, compared to Zaurus C3x00 which is 1800 mAh and uses 3.2W (C1000 eating 2.7V because of the lack of microdrive?). I begin to doubt the real power usage.

With the microdrive in my 3200 swapped with a CF, i am sure my Terrier can get much more juice than this beast. Plus ... i am carrying around a damned cheap (~ 10 euros) PSP emergency charger which is only less than half the size of my Z but has an extremely high capacity (9800 mAh!!), together with my Logic-3 retractable PSP USB Charger/Data cable, practically there is no need to worry about battery usage for my Z.
Snappy
I believe there is another line "7.2V 5200mAh" in

"リチウムイオン 7.2V 2600mAh(内蔵バッテリパック)、
7.2V 5200mAh(内蔵バッテリパック(L))"

I got a feeling it means you get 7hrs only with an extended batt, something you can already do with some models of Sony and Fujitsu. Most sub-notebooks can prob do 5~7 hrs with the right batt, unfortunately most companies do not release extended batts, and even when they do, they cost a bomb.
maximusz
Posted for sale already..... but no price ?!?

http://www.dynamism.com/u8240/main.shtml

It looks like the men with the fingers in all UMPC pies, the Dynamism gang, have secured a deal for the Fujitsu UMPC. I've just seen the info come through on their RSS feed. They will be offering two versions of the Fujitsu UMPC from Japan. One with XP Pro (English) and one with Vista Business (English.)

It will be available in June with either 20 or 40GB HDD (depending on which part of their site you read!) but there is no pricing yet. I assume this will be a Japanese import and will be offered with pricing that reflects the import and software re-install costs.


Lets hope it sells for under a grand? laugh.gif
rickh
QUOTE(maximusz @ May 20 2007, 12:47 PM)
It looks like the men with the fingers in all UMPC pies, the Dynamism gang, have secured a deal for the Fujitsu UMPC. I've just seen the info come through on their RSS feed. They will be offering two versions of the Fujitsu UMPC from Japan. One with XP Pro (English) and one with Vista Business (English.)

It will be available in June with either 20 or 40GB HDD (depending on which part of their site you read!) but there is no pricing yet. I assume this will be a Japanese import and will be offered with pricing that reflects the import and software re-install costs.
*

Lifted straight from umpcportal.com.

R.
==
speculatrix
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-13902...+House+%21.html

review on its way
gr8ful
QUOTE(rickh @ May 20 2007, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(maximusz @ May 20 2007, 12:47 PM)
It looks like the men with the fingers in all UMPC pies, the Dynamism gang, have secured a deal for the Fujitsu UMPC. I've just seen the info come through on their RSS feed. They will be offering two versions of the Fujitsu UMPC from Japan. One with XP Pro (English) and one with Vista Business (English.)

It will be available in June with either 20 or 40GB HDD (depending on which part of their site you read!) but there is no pricing yet. I assume this will be a Japanese import and will be offered with pricing that reflects the import and software re-install costs.
*

Lifted straight from umpcportal.com.

R.
==
*




This article is updated and Dynamism has a $2099 price tag on this device. A bit more than I was hoping to spend.
moi
1400 eur? that's 4xSL-C3200... not that worth.
speculatrix
*poof* - my interest disappears. mind you, dynamism do charge top price for these things, but even if it were US$1500 or GBP800, it'd still be GBP300 more than I could ever consider.
ZDevil
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 22 2007, 04:59 PM)
*poof* - my interest disappears. mind you, dynamism do charge top price for these things, but even if it were US$1500 or GBP800, it'd still be GBP300 more than I could ever consider.
*


Well, if i have $1500 to spend on a Z, I am pretty sure that I can make the best and the most out of it and it will be a super perfect Zaurus with all the nice little mods (like internal bluetooth -- Fatty has already done that), a beefy battery, cool accessories, etc.
And I am already very happy to spend just around 1/3 of the price and have 80% (at least) of the functionality that I actually need for an ultra-laptop/umpc. wink.gif
nilch
I guess these UMPC devices want to sell only on their Wow factor and their price premiums.

Of course, not anyone in their right minds would want to buy a small device which only packed in a full version of windows and sells for twice your average top-line laptop price. When the much affordable less powerfull but as functional a device as the Zaurus (and add any others in this category, I didnt find any) were available

Unless of course, you were some nerd thinking $2000 would bring you manna from heaven.
No wonder this UMPC thing never picked off.
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