Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Dual Booting Pdaxrom And Angstrom?
OESF Forums > Distros, Development, and Model Specific Forums > Distro Support and Discussion > pdaXrom
Meanie
This might be something that might be of interest to owners of C3100 and C3200.
Since pdaXrom runs mainly from the NAND and doesn't really use the internal MicroDrive explicitly and Angstrom runs from the MicroDrive and doesn't use the NAND which really is a waste of the NAND, it could be possible and might be desirable to have them dual boot on the Zaurus. Both use a 2.6.x kernel, the Angstrom one using the microdrive as rootfs and the pdaXrom one using the NAND. uboot which pdaXrom is using allows you to select a different device for rootfs, ie NAND or MicroDrive. This won't work as of now, but would anyone be interested if things went that way? And if you really want to, it probably would also be possible to boot off the SD card as well, for something like running Debian...
louigi600
Yes ... it is possible but some work needs to be done:
the angstrom kernel has a default nand flash layout that is like sharp default, pdaxrom uses a different layout (no home and big root).
If you do boot pdaxrom with an unchanged Angstrom kernel (which still hase old ABI compat) you will almost certainly do bad things to your root filesystem on nand.
What needs to be done is to ither change the nand default layout in the kernel sources or get u-boot send commandline to kernel with the new pdaxrom nand layout.

Just a few other words on this matter: changing the Angstrom kernel will require an EABI toolchain while changing u-boot can be don with almost any arm toolchain.

Using pdaxrom kernel on Angstrom is not possible because the pdaxrom kernel has no EABI support.

Things would be very different it the space in the logic partition would be defragmented,
there would be enough space for 2 kernels ;-)
Civil
http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23865&st=30
I think it'll be possible to use kexec to change kernels. Boot to one system and kexec to another.
Meanie
i know what is possible. my reason for this post was to see whether anyone would be interested in such a thing before i spend time on it...
louigi600
QUOTE(Meanie @ May 6 2007, 01:13 PM)
i know what is possible. my reason for this post was to see whether anyone would be interested in such a thing before i spend time on it...
*

I was wondering ... even if you do not spend time on it but how would you work around the problems (see my reply above) ?

Just intrested to see if you have any other way to work around the problems .
Meanie
QUOTE(louigi600 @ May 6 2007, 10:47 PM)
QUOTE(Meanie @ May 6 2007, 01:13 PM)
i know what is possible. my reason for this post was to see whether anyone would be interested in such a thing before i spend time on it...
*

I was wondering ... even if you do not spend time on it but how would you work around the problems (see my reply above) ?

Just intrested to see if you have any other way to work around the problems .
*



as i said before, this currently is not possible, but if we rebuild the pdaXrom kernel with Angstrom patches or patch the Angstrom kernel with pdaXrom patches, then eventually we will end up with a kernel that can supports all distros. EABI enabled kernel can run old ABI binaries so definately need to build an EABI enabled kernel.

otherwise, kexec could also solve the problem or maybe have a look at this:
http://www.piro.hopto.org/~piro/pukiwiki/p...1for%A1%A1C3000
Civil
QUOTE
as i said before, this currently is not possible, but if we rebuild the pdaXrom kernel with Angstrom patches or patch the Angstrom kernel with pdaXrom patches, then eventually we will end up with a kernel that can supports all distros. EABI enabled kernel can run old ABI binaries so definately need to build an EABI enabled kernel.

old-ABI comability is experimental and doesn't provide fully compability (see kernel's help for it).
louigi600
QUOTE(Civil @ May 6 2007, 03:41 PM)
QUOTE
as i said before, this currently is not possible, but if we rebuild the pdaXrom kernel with Angstrom patches or patch the Angstrom kernel with pdaXrom patches, then eventually we will end up with a kernel that can supports all distros. EABI enabled kernel can run old ABI binaries so definately need to build an EABI enabled kernel.

old-ABI comability is experimental and doesn't provide fully compability (see kernel's help for it).
*


Yea ... and you haveto enable it or you get no old ABI support at all.

QUOTE
otherwise, kexec could also solve the problem or maybe have a look at this:
http://www.piro.hopto.org/~piro/pukiwiki/p...1for%A1%A1C3000


I do not understan whatever language is used in the site ... but it looks like a frontend to some kexec boot selection. I don't like much the kexec solution because it makes the boot process twice as long.
Civil
QUOTE
I do not understan whatever language is used in the site ... but it looks like a frontend to some kexec boot selection. I don't like much the kexec solution because it makes the boot process twice as long.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...n&hl=en&ie=UTF8
zi99y
would this work with beta3/ii13 or is it only >= r121 because of uboot? Also would you have to install pdaxrom from scratch or could angstrom be install on alongside an existing beta3/r121 install? I might like to try it if I was sure it wouldn't damage my current setup.
speculatrix
I for one would be very interested. However, I'm with Guylhem when he suggested that there are "too many distros on Zaurus", in the sense that if all the effort making cacko, pdaX, pocketworkstation, angstrom, oesf, openbsd etc were put into one version we'd have something more powerful.

Snag is that each person developing for the Zaurus do it for their own interest/satisfaction and thus have widely different goals.

I started to write a humorous summary of each distro's motives but I think it might have been insulting to everyone!
ZDevil
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 6 2007, 11:11 PM)
I started to write a humorous summary of each distro's motives but I think it might have been insulting to everyone!
*


Yes, please go ahead! I for one would be more interested in reading this than expecting the never-dream-distro. wink.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(ZDevil @ May 6 2007, 11:00 PM)
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 6 2007, 11:11 PM)
I started to write a humorous summary of each distro's motives but I think it might have been insulting to everyone!
*

Yes, please go ahead! I for one would be more interested in reading this than expecting the never-dream-distro. wink.gif
*



there's no "anonymous coward" posting option on the forum!
HoloVector
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 6 2007, 04:20 PM)
QUOTE(ZDevil @ May 6 2007, 11:00 PM)
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 6 2007, 11:11 PM)
I started to write a humorous summary of each distro's motives but I think it might have been insulting to everyone!
*

Yes, please go ahead! I for one would be more interested in reading this than expecting the never-dream-distro. wink.gif
*



there's no "anonymous coward" posting option on the forum!
*


Send it to me and I'll post on your behalf. biggrin.gif
adf
well... It would probably be useful to merge angstrom patches to the pdaxrom kernel. EABI seems like a good idea. Further it would seem like a good idea to have a unified kernel. pas that, maybe a re-compile-fest to bring older apps with compatiblity problems up to speed?
really what is of interest here to me would be the chance to move towards interoperabilily (even with debian, maybe?) and really stable, functional 2.6 based releases. a unified kernel would be an excellent start.

On the other hand I could live without uboot.
Chero
Yes !!! Please do.

Fromp what I understand, it wouldn't only be possible to dual boot pdaxrom and angstrom, but also to dual boot pdaxrom and pdaxrom !! Two different setups, one one nand and one on microdrive .... I love it smile.gif

I already tried the kernel for C3100 posted by svs57(?) in the debian-and-uboot-thread to boot pdaXrom from the microdrive. It works, but I have some issues with the touchscreen (similar to those who own a CXX0 and try to run r198, I believe). But at least it boots and loads X etc.

Really looking forward now ...
Chero.
zeigerpuppy
Yes Meanie, I would be interested too,
I think it would help a lot of people to test kernels and to debug them bit by bit while still having another system to boot into. This would probably be the most important devlopment for me trying Angstrom or debian, as I could still use my zaurus without having to reflash.
louigi600
Well the problem is that quite a fes issues may arrise by the use of different kernels ... here is just a few:
nand flash layout problems,
specific distribution kerlen patches missing can break things like zaurushw,
old-ABI is only experimental OPTION in EABI kernels so not all old-ABI code may run fine on an EABI kernel (even if the option is enabled).

Although I do not like it much currently the solution that would take the least effort for multi boot is kexec with a rare exception of r121+ pdaxrom versions that can share the same kernel (as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).
Chero
QUOTE(louigi600 @ May 7 2007, 08:50 AM)
...(as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).
*


Would it be possible to do the same and boot from the microdrive instead ? (I'm looking for a solution to run r198 from microdrive) ?

Chero.
Civil
QUOTE
Would it be possible to do the same and boot from the microdrive instead ? (I'm looking for a solution to run r198 from microdrive) ?

In theory. I was trying to get Gentoo boot from microdrive, but for some reasons kernel detects partitions after booting (see at emergenc system - I got there "Unknown partiton layout" - same thing I get if when booting from microdrive)
Civil
QUOTE
Although I do not like it much currently the solution that would take the least effort for multi boot is kexec with a rare exception of r121+ pdaxrom versions that can share the same kernel (as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).

And what about OZ's altboot? I thought it could boot system from other than nand devices...
adf
QUOTE(Civil @ May 7 2007, 03:24 PM)
QUOTE
Although I do not like it much currently the solution that would take the least effort for multi boot is kexec with a rare exception of r121+ pdaxrom versions that can share the same kernel (as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).

And what about OZ's altboot? I thought it could boot system from other than nand devices...
*


I thought altboot used kexec?
louigi600
QUOTE(Chero @ May 7 2007, 12:34 PM)
QUOTE(louigi600 @ May 7 2007, 08:50 AM)
...(as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).
*


Would it be possible to do the same and boot from the microdrive instead ? (I'm looking for a solution to run r198 from microdrive) ?

Chero.
*


Yes but I think a special kernel is neaded ... not sute if you can do it with a normal pdaxrom kernel.
You can try and see what happens ....
Use the sd bootable image builder from my home page ... modify it to target a partition on your microdrive and the boot by while pressing "3" ....
Civil
QUOTE
I thought altboot used kexec?

Yes, it use kexec, but it also starts rather fast... So maybe it can be useful for dual booting?
Chero
QUOTE(Chero @ May 7 2007, 11:34 AM)
QUOTE(louigi600 @ May 7 2007, 08:50 AM)
...(as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).
*


Would it be possible to do the same and boot from the microdrive instead ? (I'm looking for a solution to run r198 from microdrive) ?

Chero.
*



Since nobody really answered, I'll do it myself :
It was (is) already possible - no special kernel needed.
(thanks louigi600 !!!) smile.gif

Having a lot of fun,
Chero.
portalgod
QUOTE(Chero @ May 8 2007, 11:55 AM)
QUOTE(Chero @ May 7 2007, 11:34 AM)
QUOTE(louigi600 @ May 7 2007, 08:50 AM)
...(as a matter of fact on my C860 I have r198 in nand and a higly modified r121 in MMC and use just u-boot to select whic one to boot).
*


Would it be possible to do the same and boot from the microdrive instead ? (I'm looking for a solution to run r198 from microdrive) ?

Chero.
*



Since nobody really answered, I'll do it myself :
It was (is) already possible - no special kernel needed.
(thanks louigi600 !!!) smile.gif

Having a lot of fun,
Chero.
*



I'd be game for dual booting Angstrom and Pdaxii13 smile.gif
Chero
QUOTE(portalgod @ May 9 2007, 04:21 PM)
I'd be game for dual booting Angstrom and Pdaxii13 smile.gif
*


That would be difficult if not impossible : you'd have to mix 2.4 and 2.6 kernels.
johnsutton
Is it possible to boot pdaxii13 from u-boot? And if not, why not?
I'd like to have pdaxii13 on NAND and a debian system on SD and use u-boot to choose which one to boot.
nodens
Let's try to wake up this thread while bitbake is eating all the CPU time wink.gif

I'm interested in this, but I think the best would be to allow different kernels... That is, either use u-boot to boot angstrom, or altboot to boot pdaXrom. Using altboot + kexec, we could change the running kernel, and if altboot is started soon enough (it was the case when I used the hentges rom on my 5500) the additional boot time won't be a problem.

However, I have not yet a clear enough understanding of u-boot, pdaxrom and angstrom to know which problems would need to be addressed. The last time I changed kernel parameters I had to use the mean old buildroot (I needed a /bin/sh to repair, and there was no altboot at the time...), that tells you how old my knowledge is wink.gif

I'm willing to spend time on this, any pointer / help / doc is welcome smile.gif
louigi600
I had a go at making Angstrom boot of the mmc (like I do for my modded r121) but it was a no go.
I think that there is 2 problems involved:
angstrom kernel seems to have ither no support for ext2/3 (or at least only in modules),
angstrom kernel is ignoring command line parameters passed by u-boot (may need a u-boot patch).

To check out these things one would need the Angstrom kernel sources ... currently I cannot putup the OE build environment to get the sources for me and I've not been able to figure out how to make a Angstrom kernel by starting from a vanilla one.
Is someone could supply ... I'd have a look into it.
Meanie
QUOTE(louigi600 @ Jul 13 2007, 04:36 PM)
I had a go at making Angstrom boot of the mmc (like I do for my modded r121) but it was a no go.
I think that there is 2 problems involved:
angstrom kernel seems to have ither no support for ext2/3 (or at least only in modules),
angstrom kernel is ignoring command line parameters passed by u-boot (may need a u-boot patch).

To check out these things one would need the Angstrom kernel sources ... currently I cannot putup the OE build environment to get the sources for me and I've not been able to figure out how to make a Angstrom kernel by starting from a vanilla one.
Is someone could supply ... I'd have a look into it.
*


angstrom kernel supports ext2/ext3 but the command line parameters from uboot are ignored because those values are hardcoded in the kernel...
louigi600
QUOTE(Meanie @ Jul 13 2007, 09:04 AM)
angstrom kernel supports ext2/ext3 but the command line parameters from uboot are ignored because those values are hardcoded in the kernel...
*

While running on Angstrom kernel (r197 root) I could not mount the Angstrom ext2/3 root on SD. Since the modules were not on the r197 root for that kernel I guess some module is involved ... whether it be ext2/3 or some mmc driver module.

Yea I suspected that Angstrom kernel could have something hard coded ... that's why I want to fiddle with the config and sources (maybe I can apply nandparts.patch and pdaxrom_u-boot_params.patch patches).
Civil
QUOTE
well... It would probably be useful to merge angstrom patches to the pdaxrom kernel. EABI seems like a good idea. Further it would seem like a good idea to have a unified kernel. pas that, maybe a re-compile-fest to bring older apps with compatiblity problems up to speed?

http://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23865&st=75

There was a request to bring glibc 2.4/2.5, gcc 4.1.x and eabi support to pdaXrom (see bugtracker at pdaxrom.org ).
pdaXrom now have very old glibc and gcc (gcc 3.4.x doesn't support EABI properly, and glibc 2.5 have a lot of fixes for eabi support)

QUOTE
not been able to figure out how to make a Angstrom kernel by starting from a vanilla one.

http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/or...packages/linux/ - see linux-rp there.
louigi600
Well appart any extra patchs that may have gotten into Angstrom kernel (they have some on ther source tree that I've not figured our wether they are old or used) then the build I have for 2.6.21.5 could be good for bothe Angstrom and pdaXrom with two extra requirement:
1) enable the EABI target and also the old ABI compatibility
2) an EABI toolcain to build it

Currently I'm using pdaxrom 3.4 cross toolchain and that is not really EABI capable.

Some time ago I attempted building kernel with the EABI toolchain from code sourcery ... bit it fails on some missing headers if I remember correctly.
If anyone has the time to fix it up ;-) ... I'm buisy reading a lot of pxa documentation.

Someone may say: "Why don't you use OE toolchain ? ... it's EABI capable"

I'll probabbly give it a go when I'll have a pc at home to set it up on.
louigi600
Using the current EABI cross toolchain from Code Sourcery (arm-2007q1-21-arm-none-eabi-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.bz2) it is possible to build the kernel I patched with mixed pdaXrom and OE patches (see the Help New Kernel For Pdaxrom thread).
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.