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Capn_Fish
I'm getting that itch to try a new Linux distro (I've been using (X)Ubuntu), and am debating between trying Slackware or Gentoo, or moving to Debian.

I really don't mind a lack of GUI tools or fiddling, so what distro do people recommend I try first? I wouldn't really be "trying" Debian, as I've been fiddling with it for a while.

I'm really only looking for ease of package removal (installation isn't so much of an issue)/building, and this installation would be on a 1 GHz dektop with 1 GB of RAM. I have 40 GB partitioned off for fiddling (I knew this was going to happen biggrin.gif), so disk space shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks.
T3_slider
I'm partial to Slackware, but this really is a religious debate. I'm not sure about Gentoo, but Slackware has a removepkg tool for uninstallation (also available through pkgtools, a GUI-ish front-end for removepkg etc.).

Slackware has a nice rpm2tgz tool to allow you to use RPMs as well as its native .tgz package format, but compiling is no big deal.

Using a newer version of WINE under Slackware requires a 2.6 kernel (which most people would install anyway), but the 2.6 kernel is not the default (although it is an option when you install Slackware).

Although I will soon be getting a new PC (It's about time), I'm currently running Slackware on a 333 MHz (Yeah, you read it right) processor with 256 Mb RAM, so it should definitely run fine on your PC.

Bottom line: You already know what you'd be getting from Debian (You said you are already fiddling with it), so I would say try out either Gentoo or Slackware and if you don't like it then move to Debian (Or try the other one).
Capn_Fish
I really want to use a 2.6 kernel. Is it fairly painless to set it as the default?
T3_slider
Yes, it's basically painless. A kernel screen in the installation process allows you to select a 2.6 kernel image (I think it's called "test26", but I don't remember). You can also upgrade the kernel to 2.6 after installing the 2.4 kernel, but if you're installing from scratch anyway it's easier to install the 2.6 kernel from the start.
desertrat
Gentoo. When uninstalling packages you will be told which files have been removed and which files/directories were not removed (usually when directory is not empty), thus you can manually check and remove if necessary - this means no crud need be leftover from uninstalls.

The best thing about Gentoo (apart from its excellent and copious documentation - much better and more extensive than Debian's I might add) is that it is continually updated.
Capn_Fish
I (almost) never read docs anyway, so they aren't really a bonus wink.gif.

Any other opinions? I'm currently thinking Gentoo, and will probably go install it soon, but I'd like to hear what others have to say.
tanjian2
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ May 25 2007, 06:13 PM)
I (almost) never read docs anyway, so they aren't really a bonus  wink.gif.

Any other opinions? I'm currently thinking Gentoo, and will probably go install it soon, but I'd like to hear what others have to say.
*

Fedora anyone? I use Fedora Core 4 daily - haven't yet seen the need to go to FC7 - not sure why Linux feels the same need as M$oft for fast frequent updates. I am running Firefox 2 and Thunderbird 2 and OpenOffice. Fedora uses yum as its update mechanism - simply type yum update and wtach as the system gets updated.....

If you really need Windows and want Linux I cant recommend VMWare strongly enough - like I said I use FC4 daily at work, I have XP at home - cos my kids want the latest games and school forces them to use M$soft - but I use Fedora Core 5 and 6 in VM machines. You can also download pre-made Linux 'appliances' to try out a few distributions before committing one to the hard drive _ *smile* Good luck and have fun....
ZDevil
Since you are having a 3100, i would highly recommend OpenBSD, which for me is gaining much momentum and is becoming a real force. wink.gif
You can safely keep sharp/cacko in flash intact because obsd runs only on a big MD (or CF).
I've been asking around for making pdaXii dualbooting with obsd. Eager to see a solution.
Two things in obsd that beats all other Z distros: 1) official support; 2) port tree system
Also in terms of stabililty and ease to build compile nativelyi would say OBSD fares even better than the current pdaX.
The setup procedure is just (~95%) the same as on desktop.
Capn_Fish
I'm actually looking for a Desktop/Laptop distro, and I am Windows-Free.

Anybody have an idea as to why Gentoo can't connect to the internet? It has an IP address, and emerge worked with the live CD... I can ping on the local intranet.

I installed with the minimal CD, but am DLing the Live CD now to try. It is over 700MB, though, so wouldn't it not fit on a CD?
adf
prognosis on when we might see openbsd running from SD? that would be, to me, the ost tempting option
T3_slider
QUOTE(Capn_Fish)
I installed with the minimal CD, but am DLing the Live CD now to try. It is over 700MB, though, so wouldn't it not fit on a CD?

Maybe "Live CD" is just a traditional statement. wink.gif

If you have a DVD-ROM drive you could probably use that, or alternatively a USB flash drive.

I just checked the Gentoo Live CD file and it appears to be 700.29 Mb. If you get one of those 700 Mb CDs it might fit, but it seems tight...maybe the ISO is slightly larger than the actual size after burning. I would say give it a shot and if it doesn't burn try a USB stick or something (I know, stupid answer).
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(T3_slider @ May 25 2007, 10:36 PM)
QUOTE(Capn_Fish)
I installed with the minimal CD, but am DLing the Live CD now to try. It is over 700MB, though, so wouldn't it not fit on a CD?

Maybe "Live CD" is just a traditional statement. wink.gif

If you have a DVD-ROM drive you could probably use that, or alternatively a USB flash drive.

I just checked the Gentoo Live CD file and it appears to be 700.29 Mb. If you get one of those 700 Mb CDs it might fit, but it seems tight...maybe the ISO is slightly larger than the actual size after burning. I would say give it a shot and if it doesn't burn try a USB stick or something (I know, stupid answer).
*


I think I got my issues with that and the minimal install sorted out @ the Gentoo IRC channel. They seem to think that the definition of MB varies.
desertrat
The good thing about Gentoo is that you can install using any livecd (or an existing OS if you already have one) and an internet connection. You could do the same in Debian 3.x with the bootstrap thing but it was a lot more fiddly, not sure whether Debian 4.x has improved in that regard.
Capn_Fish
Wow, I'm REALLY getting a bad impression of Gentoo.

[rant]
Installation from the minimal CD went fine, but after a reboot the root password I set didn't work, so I followed directions on a forum to fix it. Then, after getting into my system, the internet connection didn't work, and I have no idea why. So I decided to try to install from the Live CD, which failed on three separate attempts to install. The first was (probably) my fault, but since it scrambles the root password, you can't unmount partitions after you mount them, so you can only try to install once. What's up with that?
[/rant]

Could somebody tell me how to install a preconfigured kernel using the minimal CD or point me to the solution? I really like the premise of Gentoo, but so far I haven't really gotten to try it.

Thanks, and I know this isn't a Gentoo forum, but this is the OT section.
InSearchOf
Wow... I haven't ever had any problems installing Gentoo... it is just that initial learning curve... just understand everything that is going on

but, be patient... at the end it will all be worth it... but it sucks having to start over :-)

Late
Capn_Fish
I felt like I understood the install process from the minimal CD, but I didn't understand building the kernel, so I think I missed an essential module or something dealing with networking/internet, as everything else I checked worked just fine.
spaul
FWIW I'm trying dreamlinux today. It is a debian based distro using XFCE disguised with the best art I have seen and beryl. Heavily influenced by mac
grog
I've been using gentoo on my desktop for a while now. It's great once you get it installed, but I admit it was a pain getting there. I even tried to install it on my laptop too, but in the end just couldn't get it working.

There's a lot of discussion going on on the gentoo forums right now about the poor quality of the live/install cd's. I get the impression it's not going to get fixed anytime soon.

I was finally able to install it via a net install using the minimal cd. As I said, it was a while ago so the details are kinda fuzzy now. Browse & post on the forums for help. I'm sure with enough persistence you'll get it running. I've found it worth it.
desertrat
QUOTE(grog @ May 27 2007, 04:02 PM)
There's a lot of discussion going on on the gentoo forums right now about the poor quality of the live/install cd's. I get the impression it's not going to get fixed anytime soon.

I tried the GUI installed once and it was more pain than the manual install.

QUOTE
I was finally able to install it via a net install using the minimal cd.
This is the best install method (IMHO).

QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ May 26 2007, 11:49 PM)
Could somebody tell me how to install a preconfigured kernel using the minimal CD or point me to the solution? I really like the premise of Gentoo, but so far I haven't really gotten to try it.

Using genkernel is supposed to get you a kernel which is configured like the livecd. However I like to configure the kernel manually so that it's tailored to my hardware. It can be tricky and tedious configuring the kernel for the first time. Just go through every single option and read the help text to help you decide whether you need a particular option - if in doubt include it. After you've got a working kernel you can go back and remove the doubtful options one at a time until it stops working again - then backtrack.
Capn_Fish
I was kind of hoping to avoid that, but OK. Should I mark stuff as "included" or "module?"
desertrat
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ May 28 2007, 02:19 PM)
I was kind of hoping to avoid that, but OK. Should I mark stuff as "included" or "module?"

Mostly common sense, stuff that are needed to boot the machine needs to be included (ata/sata/scsi/filesystems/etc), I usually include motherboard hardware (sound/network). Stuff that I modulise are non-boot filesystems (ntfs/smbfs/etc) and usb peripherals.
Capn_Fish
All right. I'll go and try to reinstall Gentoo and do my best not to mess up the kernel again. wink.gif
Capn_Fish
Indeed, I forgot to add in my Ethernet driver last time, and now it works perfectly smile.gif . It takes a long time to build Xorg, Fluxbox, and the deps, though.
Cresho
using ubuntu

here is a pick

http://ubuntuforums.org/g/index.php?n=578



running these under it

beryl
conky
screenlets
kiba dock

hardware activated on startup

nvidia drivers
nvidia antiliasing and anisotrophic filter.

Capn_Fish
After deciding Gentoo wasn't the best choice (it failed to emerge something. I thought emerge was supposed to "just work?"), I'm looking at Slackware. It seems the docs are out of date and/or the install procedure is very complicated (compared to other distros).

Anybody know which is the case (or both)?

TIA
T3_slider
This page ( http://www.bitbenderforums.com/vb22/showth...p?postid=311808 ) explains every single step along with pictures on how to get Slackware running. Just make sure that instead of installing the bare.i kernel you install one of the 2.6 kernels (since you said earlier that you wanted a 2.6 kernel).

If you are going to try it, I'm about to install Slackware on one of my PCs in the next few days so if you have any questions I'll have the install process fresh in my memory (I hope).

The only thing you really need to worry about is what partition scheme you are going to use.

If you want pre-built packages for slackware, I think the best resource is http://www.linuxpackages.net/ although you can always compile apps from source.
desertrat
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jun 5 2007, 11:46 PM)
After deciding Gentoo wasn't the best choice (it failed to emerge something. I thought emerge was supposed to "just work?"),
If you stick to the stable ebuilds then mostly it "just works". However there will be occasional breakages, but these are usually quickly solved by a combination of the usual:

- google
- search the gentoo bug tracker
- search gentoo mailing list/forums
- post your problem on gentoo mailing list/forums
Da_Blitz
gentoo was good for me for encryption but i had a few niggling issues that i need fixed at that time and couldnt wait, debian support with crypto disks is good but not 100% up to scratch for my usage yet

still i use thier Documents all the time, when it comes to rtfm no one supplies a fm like they do
kopsis
Have you considered Arch Linux? It's sort of philosophically aligned with Gentoo and Slackware in that it starts as minimalist install and leaves it up to you to add only what you want (and assumes that you know what you're doing).

Unlike Gentoo, it's a binary distro (i686 optimized ... don't bother if you have antique hardware). The package manager (Pacman) is quite good and it's very easy to create your own packages (much easier than Debian). The pre-packaged stuff is pretty current (gcc 4.2.0, kernel 2.6.21, xorg 7.0, gnome 2.18, kde 3.5.7, xfce 4.4, etc.) and there is an active community maintaining even more bleeding edge versions.

I'm still partial to Ubuntu for boxes that I want to just work. But if you want to tinker, Arch is a great choice.
Capn_Fish
I'll put Arch Linux on my list.
InSearchOf
Well Fedora 7 just came out with a new release last week... I will be loading that on my work laptop in hopefully a few hours.

Late
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(InSearchOf @ Jun 7 2007, 10:06 AM)
Well Fedora 7 just came out with a new release last week... I will be loading that on my work laptop in hopefully a few hours.

Late
*

I'm not a big fan of Fedora.
Capn_Fish
Which release of Arch is the recent "stable" release? 2007.50 or 0.8?
kopsis
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Jun 7 2007, 02:49 PM)
Which release of Arch is the recent "stable" release? 2007.50 or 0.8?
*


"Duke" (2007.05) is the latest "stable" release. It's worth noting that Arch uses a "rolling" release approach, so the "stable" releases are just snapshots of the stable base repository a convenient points in time. The first thing to do after an install is a package update to pick up any changes since the release was built.

With Arch new packages (or new versions of existing packages) are first released into a "testing" repository and then rolled into stable "ad hoc" when testing feedback indicates there are no major problems. This is a lot different than the "entire testing repository replaces stable at some fixed date" approach that Debian uses. As a result, "stable" gets updates that are more than just bug fixes on a very regular basis.
Da_Blitz
actually arch sounds like somthnig worth trying, i had plans for fedora core 7 on the kohjinsha as i finds its out of the bok experince to be quite polished even if it is lacking in some areas (havent yet tried the new release) but perhaps i might put arch on thier instead

have even given openbsd some thought
adf
QUOTE(Da_Blitz @ Jun 8 2007, 06:47 AM)
actually arch sounds like somthnig worth trying, i had plans for fedora core 7 on the kohjinsha as i finds its out of the bok experince to be quite polished even if it is lacking in some areas (havent yet tried the new release) but perhaps i might put arch on thier instead

have even given openbsd some thought
*

Fedora? really? I gave up on it around core 3. Done a little playing with Vector--that might be nice on your Kosh, it is fairly optimized.
vputz
Sorry to hear you had a bad Gentoo experience! I keep trying other distros and always come back to Gentoo when I need something to 'just work'--so I'm surprised that it did so poorly for you. Ah well.

Myself, I just can't love debian-based installs. I use them if I need to get something up and running fast (just put together a 'spare parts' computer to freecycle and threw Ubuntu on it), but it always seems like I somehow manage to get the package database wedged and then it's toast as far as upgrades go. I can NOT figure out how to unwedge a broken debian. No matter how many iterations of "dpkg -f" or wotever, I always wind up having to reinstall.

So it's gentoo for me. I do notice that a lot of folks on the Gentoo boards seem to like Arch, though, so it's probably worth looking at. And if you are satisfied with stable debian, deb's probably not bad either.
adf
QUOTE(vputz @ Jun 8 2007, 02:57 PM)
Sorry to hear you had a bad Gentoo experience!  I keep trying other distros and always come back to Gentoo when I need something to 'just work'--so I'm surprised that it did so poorly for you.  Ah well.

Myself, I just can't love debian-based installs.  I use them if I need to get something up and running fast (just put together a 'spare parts' computer to freecycle and threw Ubuntu on it), but it always seems like I somehow manage to get the package database wedged and then it's toast as far as upgrades go.  I can NOT figure out how to unwedge a broken debian.  No matter how many iterations of "dpkg -f" or wotever, I always wind up having to reinstall.

So it's gentoo for me.  I do notice that a lot of folks on the Gentoo boards seem to like Arch, though, so it's probably worth looking at.  And if you are satisfied with stable debian, deb's probably not bad either.
*

Funny-- I don't seem to have that problem with the debian package database at all--but it plagues me on rpm based systems. Haven't tried gentoo yet...
Da_Blitz
funny i havent ever had that problem with RPMs

but all in all i dont really care ethire way, under the hood they all act the same, if i chose fedora for the laptop it wolud be because i dont need to do that much more to get it laptop ready, debian for servers because it has a good security policy and gentoo for some of its packages
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