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A5DF
Am I the only one who would like to see a port of OpenMoko for Zaurus?
adf
QUOTE(A5DF @ Jul 1 2007, 01:16 AM)
Am I the only one who would like to see a port of OpenMoko for Zaurus?
*

I was expecting it to appear as Angstrom, actually, given the that the Angstrom people seem to have a good bit to do with openmoko. Possibly I am being delusional?
koen
perhaps you all should search better before posting drivel
adf
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 1 2007, 08:30 AM)
perhaps you all should search better before posting drivel
*

right. OE people were working on building it last I checked-- doesn't mean an angstrom release will in anyway be openmoko-based.

otoh how much searching should we be doing on what is either being kept fairly quiet, or is vaporware atm? There hasn't been an update view/review on the neo in months.
dhns
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 1 2007, 09:54 AM)
otoh  how much searching should we be doing on what is either being kept fairly quiet, or is vaporware atm? There hasn't been an update view/review on the neo in months.
*

There had been no news from FIC until some day ago.

Therefore in summary from following the mailing lists:
* developer devices of Phase 1 will be sold starting 9th July (it looks like they have 1000 units)
* mass market Phase 2 will be available in October (in larger quantities)

If you do not really want to develop, you should IMHO better wait until Phase 2.

-- hns
A5DF
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 1 2007, 03:30 AM)
perhaps you all should search better before posting drivel
*


Not to say you're off topic, but I did give your suggestion the benefit of the doubt.

search angstrom openmoko
search angstrom matchbox

"The error returned was:

Sorry, but we did not find any matches to display. Try again and broaden your search criteria. If you were searching for new posts since your last visit, it's possible that there are none to show."

Nothing on the roadmap either.

http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/AngstromRoadmap


I honestly opened this thread to show there was a community interest in a project like this. No, tmk there are no such plans to dump gpe/opie/e for going full openmoko in angstrom. (name of the software stack including ui)
koen
QUOTE(A5DF @ Jul 1 2007, 04:21 PM)
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 1 2007, 03:30 AM)
perhaps you all should search better before posting drivel
*


Not to say you're off topic, but I did give your suggestion the benefit of the doubt.

search angstrom openmoko
search angstrom matchbox

"The error returned was:

Sorry, but we did not find any matches to display. Try again and broaden your search criteria. If you were searching for new posts since your last visit, it's possible that there are none to show."

Nothing on the roadmap either.

http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/AngstromRoadmap


I honestly opened this thread to show there was a community interest in a project like this. No, tmk there are no such plans to dump gpe/opie/e for going full openmoko in angstrom. (name of the software stack including ui)
*




Reading is very hard it seems: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/contact

Use the mailinglists, not some shite forum


And to make it even worse, the answer to your questions is the freaking FIRST link in google when searching for 'angstrom openmoko'

Djeez, forums really rot your brains when a simple google is being too hard.
cycle_55
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 1 2007, 08:38 AM)
QUOTE(A5DF @ Jul 1 2007, 04:21 PM)
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 1 2007, 03:30 AM)
perhaps you all should search better before posting drivel
*


Not to say you're off topic, but I did give your suggestion the benefit of the doubt.

search angstrom openmoko
search angstrom matchbox

"The error returned was:

Sorry, but we did not find any matches to display. Try again and broaden your search criteria. If you were searching for new posts since your last visit, it's possible that there are none to show."

Nothing on the roadmap either.

http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/AngstromRoadmap


I honestly opened this thread to show there was a community interest in a project like this. No, tmk there are no such plans to dump gpe/opie/e for going full openmoko in angstrom. (name of the software stack including ui)
*




Reading is very hard it seems: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/contact

Use the mailinglists, not some shite forum


And to make it even worse, the answer to your questions is the freaking FIRST link in google when searching for 'angstrom openmoko'

Djeez, forums really rot your brains when a simple google is being too hard.
*



This rant in my opinion is totally unnessesary. If you choose not to explain yourself on this forum that is your choice but most of the rest of us are here to build a community and help each other.

cycle_55
A5DF
koen,

I think the huge screaming rant is directly related to needing to google for angstrom's roadmap when they are too lazy to update it themselves? If you want to be a smart ass, maybe you should start with yourself first. Something about throwing rocks at glass houses?
adf
HEADLINE ANGRY ANGSTROM DEV POSTS PISSY RANT RATHER THAN USEFUL INFO!

actually the rant was expected--as talented as he is, koen is easily needled. I think I'll do it again.
after long intermiiant exposure to OZ and angstrom one thing has become clear. Despite hard work and good intentions ( I thinK) the OE based distros quite frequently do not acheive what theyare predicted to acheive, and often allow serious defects (from a user perspective) to fester for unusually long periods. Given the experienced, and documentable on this forum, disconnects between dev claims and actual performance in the hands of an end user, it seems that devoting much time to the mailing lists as a non-developer would not prove fruitful.

Given this, it is reasonable to lean more on offcial openmoko status reports (which are in my experience not very common or informative, though this is quite reasonable in a pre-release product), and also reasonable to largely ignore, as an end user, the angstrom mailing lists.

To put it more briefly--can you, without any tweaking install firefox from from the gui package manager and have a working installation of firefox? Last I heard FF doesn't run on angstrom, though it is in the feeds.

I'm sure keon or someone will come back with some "show how smart you are and use your computer like an abacus" type justification for this or any similar issue smile.gif

(disclaimer --I am quite aware that OZ, OE, Angstrom, have made serious progress in the development of handheld linux, and that the effects of that progress are widely beneficial. I think there would be some interest here in an Z openmoko port, which was , I believe, the intent of the original post. My followup was based on the speculation that as things get polished in openmoko and buildable in OE they find their way into Angstrom, one way or another)
koen
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 1 2007, 07:51 PM)
HEADLINE ANGRY ANGSTROM DEV POSTS PISSY RANT RATHER THAN USEFUL INFO!


I gave usefull info, just launch google and search for 'angstrom openmoko'

QUOTE(adf @ Jul 1 2007, 07:51 PM)
To put it more briefly--can you, without any tweaking install firefox from from the gui package manager and have a working installation of firefox?  Last I heard FF doesn't run on angstrom, though it is in the feeds.


firefox doesn't work on arm/eabi, period. Check the OE and debian bugtracker for details. It is in the feeds so people can debug it to get it working, as was outlined in the mailinglist.

QUOTE(adf @ Jul 1 2007, 07:51 PM)
I believe, the intent of the original post. My followup was based on the speculation that as things get polished in openmoko and buildable in OE they find their way into Angstrom, one way or another)


Like I said, google. Or, heaven forbid, visit the angstrom website and click in 'package browser' and enter some search terms like ehm.. 'openmoko'? Of course you won't do that, since the primary source for information for the entire internet is this forum. Burn me for suggesting such outlandish things like google or visiting the project website.
A5DF
Just found this digging around in koen's blog:

The short and sweet guide to building openmoko for Ångström
Sun, 2007-02-18 11:25 — koen

This howto assumes you already have a working OE setup.

Step 1:
set DISTRO="angstrom-2007.1-oabi" in your local.conf
Execute the following commands:
bitbake gcc-cross
bitbake -b packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb

Step 2:
set DISTRO="angstrom-2007.1" in your local.conf
add ASSUME_PROVIDED += "uboot-gta01" to your local.conf

Step 3:
bitbake openmoko-image
speculatrix
@Koen,
if you don't like forums, then may I politely suggest you ignore them instead of being rude and abusive. By being here at all you are being hypocritical, and your position as a lead member of angstrom puts that whole institution to shame when you go off on a rant. Why not spend the time instead on writing some useful documentation, fixing bugs or helping people on the mailing list?
adf
Yes, I was aware that people were (or intrnding) building openmoko in angstrom as a result of web searching months ago.

Hence the initial reply.

I think the original post ws looking for something more like an official packaged release.

I admit I don' visit the Amgstrom site very often. Right now my impression of the whole OE approach is that it is a wondderful thing for the advancement of portable linux, but kind of a headache from a useability perspective. I strongly suspect (given the number of OE people somehow involved with or connected to openmoko) that when the neo release 2 get close, and real commericial openmoko products hit the 'shelves' we will see a sudden drastic imporvement in OE based distro useability--possibly even a stable branch. Til then, I'm not really keeping close tabs.

you got me on the firefox thing--- If I'd read the mailinglist I'd know where in the ecology of angstrom firefox was broken, and not expect a fix too soon.
speculatrix
BTW, there's no search tool for the angstrom mailing list, my comments to add one was ignored, so I added one to my website!
A5DF
@adf

You got it. I was talking about an angstrom release for example my SL-3100. No such release exists contrary to what koen has been trying to lead us to believe. Packages do exist for angstrom in the feed, I do give him that out of what he said. This unfortunately is not what we were discussing.
ofels
QUOTE(A5DF @ Jul 2 2007, 12:27 AM)
@adf

I was talking about an angstrom release for example my SL-3100. No such release exists contrary to what koen has been trying to lead us to believe.


Must be me, but I have not seen a statement by koen about an existing Angstrom release. In fact I'd be very surprised if he'd have made such a statement because there is no release of Angstrom yet besides some unstable images.

Quoting from the web site:

QUOTE
After numerous requests, the link to the download location for images, packages and more:
http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/


Please note the word "unstable" in the link.

Oliver
adf
even so, the original intent-- that an openmokoized release of Angstrom--how would you put that?--would be something of interest, remains. The rest is quibbling
ofels
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 2 2007, 09:50 AM)
even so, the original intent-- that an openmokoized release of Angstrom--how would you put that?--would be something of interest, remains. The rest is quibbling
*


Of course would such a thing be of interest.
If someone cared about building such a distribution - and I believe such a help would be welcome - things would be sorted out very quick as soon as a stable Angstrom release is available.

But judging the overall state of the openmoko software (by installing what is currently in the feeds) there is still some way to go to usability.

Oliver
koen
QUOTE(ofels @ Jul 2 2007, 08:48 AM)
QUOTE(adf @ Jul 2 2007, 09:50 AM)
even so, the original intent-- that an openmokoized release of Angstrom--how would you put that?--would be something of interest, remains. The rest is quibbling
*


Of course would such a thing be of interest.
If someone cared about building such a distribution - and I believe such a help would be welcome - things would be sorted out very quick as soon as a stable Angstrom release is available.

But judging the overall state of the openmoko software (by installing what is currently in the feeds) there is still some way to go to usability.

Oliver
*



And this forum is the wrong place to discuss such things.
speculatrix
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 2 2007, 01:41 PM)
And this forum is the wrong place to discuss such things.
*


it's a perfectly reasonable place to discuss such things, only noone should expect the angstrom people to actually read and comment, should they, since angstrom people don't believe in forums and ignore them?
koen
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Jul 2 2007, 01:37 PM)
QUOTE(koen @ Jul 2 2007, 01:41 PM)
And this forum is the wrong place to discuss such things.
*


it's a perfectly reasonable place to discuss such things, only noone should expect the angstrom people to actually read and comment, should they, since angstrom people don't believe in forums and ignore them?
*



That, and the fact that the openmoko people are going to use a different forum by the looks of it.
ofels
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Jul 2 2007, 03:37 PM)
it's a perfectly reasonable place to discuss such things, only noone should expect the angstrom people to actually read and comment, should they, since angstrom people don't believe in forums and ignore them?
*


At the office we have around 200-300 customers. To keep in touch with those customers we have set up a call centre years ago and the customers know if they use this channel they can be sure to get the most care out of it.
Additionally there is always the additional chance to use email to get in touch with the company. And their CEO can even call our CEO if things go really wrong.

This is an accepted procedure because it serves several purposes:

1. The development can concentrate on its daily business
2. Support and customer care can be planned and organised

Summary: The overall quality of customer care has increased.

Of course we could go around and check forums, mailing lists and news groups, even the yellow press, if someone has something to say about our products but guess where this would end.

So what the heck is wrong with the approach the Angstrom people are using ?
There is a certain defined contact channel to reach the folks and there are others which are not. You can use the others but do not expect something helpful.

Do you really expect the same first class support from an open source project as from a million dollar project ?

/me wonders why this discussion is regularly popping up for years.

Oliver
A5DF
Mkay people, this is now way off topic. This is not tech support, nor was that what this thread was about. This thread was about fans discussing angstrom, openmoko, and new technology. I brought up the idea it might be fun to run openmoko (the software stack) on zaurii.

I don't like arguing with anyone, and I really don't see anything productive in having other people arguing up a thread. This is not a support channel for angstrom, this is not tech support. We are discussing what we the community might like to see, or other types of imaginings that might inspire the angstrom project.

@koen

I'm glad you're still here. I'm sorry things have went the way they have now. I only really hoped to help others to inspire you more with creative ideas. Not argue up a meaningless thread. There are many nice people here. I'm not excusing your actions of late, but I find no gain in dwelling on them either.

@everyone

Please let us act together, and forget about what we now can't change. What is done, is done.
koen
QUOTE(A5DF @ Jul 2 2007, 05:15 PM)
This is not a support channel for angstrom, this is not tech support. We are discussing what we the community might like to see, or other types of imaginings that might inspire the angstrom project.
*


Well, since I'm pretty much the only angstrom developer that reads this forum nowadays your chances of inspiring by posting here are nihil, you should really use the mailinglists (gmane subscribtion is in the works) or IRC for that.

And we are pretty religious about rule #5 at http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ - A problem not worth reporting in bugzilla is not worth fixing.
adf
you'll probably see more of us there when the neo devices start coming out (just a guess)
A5DF
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40748

A nice read, after you read between our lines. A world of ifawns, and then there was OpenMoko.
matthis
I just installed openmoko on latest angstrom on my sl-c3200. It's beautiful, has all apps needed, I would really like to use it, but...
- It eats up all mem and is still unresponsive with swap. Apps close for no reason. Overall really slow.
- Portrait/Landscape modes are reversed (ie: it turns to portrait mode when lid is open..)

Anything to do to speed it up? Is it necessary to use an Angstrom kernel? I only tested with 2.6.24 provided by z0r0
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