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speculatrix
the new N810 seems to have a sliding keyboard and built-in GPS. The Wimax version of the 800 isn't expected till next year.

So, will this be the zaurus killer, or are we going to wait and see?
Capn_Fish
Where's the "I may buy one as a Zaurus supplement" option? And why is this a multiple choice poll?
Antikx
Can you add a:
"I'll wait to read the reviews!"
...for us noncommittal types. smile.gif
nilch
Sorry, that poll was more difficult to fathom - for lack of an appropriate choice, than to directly answer here.

I am thinking I will jump for the N800 - rather tan wait for the N810. The 800 is already quite cheaper than launch time. Nut will there be no Zaurus like device with Wifi and bluetooth and the works ? Please.. answer my prayers.

Well till then the Nokia is the closest to the Zaurus as I see.
jfv
Details are still thin to make a guess and there could be a couple of more poll options. I think I'll be buying something by year's end (EEE PC or N810 or iPod Touch?), but I don't know what yet. Maybe a Chumby laugh.gif
adf
My Zaurus works. til I find there is something I want to do that my Z and my phone don't do for me, I see no need to think about replacements.
speculatrix
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 15 2007, 10:09 PM) *
Where's the "I may buy one as a Zaurus supplement" option? And why is this a multiple choice poll?


added option for you
blink.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(Antikx @ Oct 15 2007, 10:11 PM) *
Can you add a:
"I'll wait to read the reviews!"
...for us noncommittal types. smile.gif


done
Capn_Fish
Thanks. Sorry if I came off as harsh. I didn't mean to be.
speculatrix
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 16 2007, 07:34 PM) *
Thanks. Sorry if I came off as harsh. I didn't mean to be.


no, no, not at all. As usual I thought of all the options that would apply to *me*, only after a good night's sleep and a few comments did I realise I'd not covered all the bases properly at all!
Snappy
I voted getting one to in addition and to supplement my Z. If it pans out, I'll get one end of next year or early 2009 ... hehehe ... by then, there might be N900 already! ... but when I do, it will be more of a try out than replacement. So far the Z had proven rather resilent. smile.gif
nilch
Here are some clear pics of the new N810.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/nokias-...nce-drops-jaws/

Nothing extra except the retractable Keyboard.

I kind of liked the pull out Camera from before instead of the fixed camera in this new model.
And what's with putting the D-PAD on the keyboard though ?

Doesnt seem too too exciting to me ...
tml
I was afraid the keyboard would look like this.
Antikx
I've never used a device with a slide out keyboard, but I imagine it would be OK. I wonder if it would feel a bit top heavy when holding it.
It's also interesting that they put the dpad on the left. I wonder ifI could get used to that.

All-in-all I hope their product does well.
rickh
QUOTE(Antikx @ Oct 17 2007, 03:34 PM) *
It's also interesting that they put the dpad on the left. I wonder ifI could get used to that.

The D-pad has always been on the left side of their tablets (770/800), but on upper left hand side. I like having the D-pad in the upper left position. I don't like the new location, because that means you need the keyboard open to use it.

When i bought my N800 I thought I would miss having the keyboard I had on my Zaurus, but I actually didn't. The N800's interface is very finger-friendly, and used in combination with the D-pad was very useful. Having the D-pad in this new location just seems like a design mistake in my opinion.

R.
==
ZDevil
Just to be picky on the keyboard layout:
-- Just one [Shift] key
-- Numbers are accessed thru the Fn key, which means no [F1]-[F10] laugh.gif
-- No [Alt] key
-- No application keys (like those in the bottom row on the Z)

Engadget says it is a "full QWERTY" keyboard, but still not "full" enough imho.
Of course the criticism is based on my assumption that it will/should run a more powerful system (like angstrom, pdaX or debian like what's happening to N800).

But in terms of hardware features it's better than the Z in almost every respect.

It's not easy for me to vote... because I may buy one if it can really run some more full-fledged linux and run as many things as my Z is running now. Well i know it is such a bad option to add to the poll, so just ignore me... tongue.gif
(debian would be the best choice, like in N800, and the 2GB internal memory should take the whole thing without trouble) Am I a glutton?
Capn_Fish
D-Pads are on the left in many things, like game consoles, so it should feel natural. The Zaurus is odd in that respect, being more like a PC.
RX Shorty
Well like the idea of it...
But I typed on such keyboard before (communicator of Nokia) and I must say I don't like it because of the buttons that are used.
And it looks like they use the same for this device.
Then again it is a good looking toy...
harvell
Built in GPS, Mozilla browser with ajax and flash 9.... Can I change my vote to "I will buy one in addition"?? BTW the d pad on the left side will make game play better for emulators. biggrin.gif

http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=649
speculatrix
well, I kind of like it, I'm still sitting on the fence, I like it more than the N800 because it has a basic (too basic) hardware keyboard. The Zaurus 6000 keyboard makes me think this would have similar problems - not enough keys means having to use it two handed because you end up pressing FN or ALT to get to numbers and punctuation - at least with the 7xx/8xx/1000/3x00 zauruses you can become quite quick and mostly use one hand.

for entering simple text (think short emails and web site URLs) the keyboard would be great, and infinitely superior to a cellphone's numeric pad which is such a pain.

I'd like to know whether they fixed the problem with the memory bandwidth to the video display which made full motion video problematic. the addition of GPS is a major plus.

I think that linux fans who don't already have a PDA/tablet/MID/UMPC will be swayed by this.

I'm going to sit on the fence a while longer :-)
tg

Very interesting - a lot to like here.
But there is one fatal flow - no built in wireless broadband (at this point in time
these types of devices without it no longer make any sense to me).
I can't figure out how nokia does not realize this - devices of this type are most
naturally used outside of home (away from wifi since most people at home will
probably still used laptops or something else with larger screens).
This is so light and easy to carry and finally with a keyboar - it's crying for internet
anywhere option but it's not there!
freizugheit
http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/se...n810_en_R1.html

Priced at US$ 479. It is definitely on my Christmas list.
adf
QUOTE(freizugheit @ Oct 17 2007, 07:34 PM) *
http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/se...n810_en_R1.html

Priced at US$ 479. It is definitely on my Christmas list.

Very nice.
freizugheit
Oops, this Review shows that it has a slide keyboard like my SL-5600.
B_Lizzard
Engadget has a hands-on article, along with some pictures. Check it out.

And some details:
  • Same 4.13-nch WVGA (800 x 480), 65k color display as the N800, brightness increased by ~20%
  • GPS with particular focus on the "context sensitive web" via Ovi
  • 2GB internal storage (not including memory cards), ships with maps for use with GPS
  • Has WiFi (802.11b/g), does not have WiMAX
  • Bluetooth (2.0+ EDR) DUNs to capable phones, totally Foleo-like
  • 400MHz OMAP 2420 CPU, 128MB RAM, 256MB ROM
  • Integrated frontal camera, ambient light sensor, mini USB 2.0, hardware lock switch
  • Plays back video: 3GP, AVI, H.263, H.264, MP4, ASF, WMV, MPEG-1/4, Real video; audio: MP3, WMA, AAC, AMR, AWB, M4A, MP2, Real audio, WAV
  • Battery life aimed at 4 hours of "typical use" (movies, music, internet access, etc.), 10 hours music only, and up to 2 weeks totally idle time, and 5 days active standby ("improved compared to previous generation devices")
  • Runs Nokia's Linux Maemo interface (duh)
  • 5 x 2.83 x 0.55-inches, 7.97 ounces
  • Ships in November, $479

I'm really liking this device. It's very powerful (128MB of RAM is a *major* boon, and the OMAP CPU is pretty powerful), has dual wireless, dual SD slots, 2GB internal Storage (and 256MB ROM), GPS, and is quite cheap. All that, but most of all, the fact that it's based on an open platform, which Nokia hasn't tried to close even in the leastest bit (as many other companies do with their Linux-running devices). If custom distros start popping up, then I'm sold.

smile.gif
RX Shorty
Just as I thought, the keyboard isn't that handy.
Hmm then again it looks sweet but I also have to agree on these comments about the only 4 hours duration when using internet connection.

The Zaurus can only do 2 hours but that devices a bit older as this one.
They really should try to improve that.
Ah well... smile.gif
mars
QUOTE(B_Lizzard @ Oct 18 2007, 12:10 PM) *
dual SD slots,


Minor correction: It only has one SD slot and a mini-SD one at that. Mini-SD is a pain if you already have a supply of SD or SDHC cards. Total possible storage on the N810 (2GB + 1 mini-SD slot probably mini-SDHC) will be less than the prior N800 (2 SDHC slots).

From what I have read, the 810 is only a minor upgrade from the 800. The key differences are sliding keyboard and gps/maps. And the price differences is nearly double: supposedly USD479 versus current low prices for the 800 of less than USD250.

The other hardware and processor is the same -- although clocked higher for the N810. The older N800 will be able to take a free software upgrade which should allow it to have the same software features as the new N810.

Supposedly sometime next year Nokia will have a version with wimax or something like that.

Oh, one more thing ... am I the only one who doesn't want, doesn't need, and can't have a camera in a device I expect to take everywhere?

tg
QUOTE(mars @ Oct 18 2007, 10:50 AM) *
QUOTE(B_Lizzard @ Oct 18 2007, 12:10 PM) *
dual SD slots,


Oh, one more thing ... am I the only one who doesn't want, doesn't need, and can't have a camera in a device I expect to take everywhere?


I don't want the camera either. But I do insist on wireless broadband and am not interested in bloototh or usb
connections to cell phones (so this device still does not cut it for me).
fpp
QUOTE(mars @ Oct 18 2007, 06:50 AM) *
The other hardware and processor is the same -- although clocked higher for the N810. The older N800 will be able to take a free software upgrade which should allow it to have the same software features as the new N810.

And the same clock speed, too.
speculatrix
scoring against the N800:
+5 adding GPS
+2 adding a basic keyboard
-3 removing the buttons so you have to open the slider
-10 making it single slot miniSD and not dual slot SD/SDHC
-2 making the web cam fixed
+2 making it slightly smaller
iwantprogress
compared to z, seems like this:

+1 memory
-1 even less total storage
+1 screen
-1 no debian yet
+1 wifi
-1 cf
+1 maybe will have more anglophone users?
-1 clamshell
-5 keyboard might not be as ergonomically thumbable
? support for hw in e.g. debian?
? weight
? speed
? sound
? reliability

score = -5 + ?
Capn_Fish
I'd add some points for the higher clock speed.
rickh
I would change a couple of things:

+ Total storage works out to be what the current kernel on the N800 supports, so I don really se that as a problem.
+ You do have Debian. You've had Debian since the N770.
+ No Cf cards is fine with me. SD is enough of a standard that cards are plentiful. What cheeses me is the Micro SD cards. Many, many current tablet owners have standard sized SD cards that are now no longer of use in the new tablet.
+ Obviously oriented to English-speaking users.

I won't give a plus or minus to either the clamshell or keyboard. They're both highly subjective. I will comment, however, that the clamshell design seems to be out, and the slate form factor seems to be in these days (as witnessed by the myriad of UMPCs and upcoming MID designs). It would be nice if they included a cover-protector like they did on the N770 though. I've mentioned before that when I bought the N800 I thought I'd miss the Zaurus' thumb board, and didn't (and still don't), so that's why I say that it's also subjective.

R.
==

QUOTE(iwantprogress @ Oct 19 2007, 12:27 AM) *
compared to z, seems like this:

+1 memory
-1 even less total storage
+1 screen
-1 no debian yet
+1 wifi
-1 cf
+1 maybe will have more anglophone users?
-1 clamshell
-5 keyboard might not be as ergonomically thumbable
? support for hw in e.g. debian?
? weight
? speed
? sound
? reliability

score = -5 + ?

tml
The usb still isn't a host, is it? Or if it is it's unpowered again? I'd give at least 5 points for this.
rickh
QUOTE(tml @ Oct 19 2007, 04:20 AM) *
The usb still isn't a host, is it? Or if it is it's unpowered again? I'd give at least 5 points for this.

It's USB OTG, according to what I've read. Not as good as host-mode, but if you've got an OTG device, it'll handle it.

R.
==
tml
QUOTE(rickh @ Oct 19 2007, 06:25 AM) *
It's USB OTG, according to what I've read. Not as good as host-mode, but if you've got an OTG device, it'll handle it.


I assume a keyboard and a usb modem aren't otg devices? I often use a usb keyboard and I'm not conviced that a bluetooth keyboard is a viable alternative.

I also agree to some degree with the complaint about the slate design. I now manage to write quite well on the zaurus keyboard when it rests on the desk. I assume the n810 won't be easy to read when lying flat on the desk and typing with 6 to 10 fingers.

Anyway, according to http://europe.nokia.com/A4568593 they now use a mozilla-based browser. And there are localized versions of the keyboard.

Does somebody know how good the pdf-reader is? Is it made by Adobe?
speculatrix
I think the keyboard is quite a subjective issue, whether it's going to be "good enough" for you, or frustratingly limited. Increasing the on-board flash to 2GB is a good move, that would at least have compensated for losing one SD slot.

Lack of a CF slot is not a big issue since less and less things use them - I only use mine for wifi or bluetooth and very rarely a GSM/GPRS card, and since both my mobile phones are bluetooth I wouldn't now miss the use of the use of the latter.

The N770 was quite a daring move into a niche market, the 800 fixed many of its flaws to become close to many handheld-linuxer's ideal. The N800 , to my mind, had two real flaws - a faulty design of the video interface restricting bandwidth and not having USB host mode. I guess many of us hoped that the N810 (or N900 as many hoped it would be) would put the icing on the cake with the rumoured keyboard and possible GPS.

I think the N810 has taken a step back towards the limitations of the 770, without giving us enough back! So, yes, I am somewhat disappointed, as details have emerged I've gone from "almost definitely buy" to "wait till the 820 or 900"!
fpp
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 18 2007, 06:17 PM) *
I'd add some points for the higher clock speed.

You shouldn't. As noted, N800 will run just the same as N810 with an OS2008 upgrade.
fpp
QUOTE(rickh @ Oct 18 2007, 08:20 PM) *
I would change a couple of things:

+ Total storage works out to be what the current kernel on the N800 supports, so I don really se that as a problem.
+ You do have Debian. You've had Debian since the N770.
+ No Cf cards is fine with me. SD is enough of a standard that cards are plentiful. What cheeses me is the Micro SD cards. Many, many current tablet owners have standard sized SD cards that are now no longer of use in the new tablet.
+ Obviously oriented to English-speaking users.

I suppose that last one means "non-japanese" users ?

It gets better than that : non-japanese, non-english users are first-class citizens with Nokia too, because of its european roots. The tablets are perfectly localized in at least seven languages, and the hardware keyboard will be, too. A refreshing change for some of us :-)
RX Shorty
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Oct 19 2007, 10:08 AM) *
I think the N810 has taken a step back towards the limitations of the 770, without giving us enough back! So, yes, I am somewhat disappointed, as details have emerged I've gone from "almost definitely buy" to "wait till the 820 or 900"!


I agree with waiting for the next step...
unsure.gif
rickh
QUOTE(tml @ Oct 19 2007, 06:17 AM) *
...
I assume a keyboard and a usb modem aren't otg devices? I often use a usb keyboard and I'm not conviced that a bluetooth keyboard is a viable alternative.
...
Does somebody know how good the pdf-reader is? Is it made by Adobe?

I've not seen an OTG keyboards, just disks so far, but I believe the spec allows for them. That said, I've been using a bluetooth keyboard with my N800 for quite some time and, at least for me, it's very usable.

I don't believe the PDF reader is by Adobe, but it's usable. There is also a port of Evince available, which I think is a bit more flexible than the included PDF reader.

R.
==
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(fpp @ Oct 19 2007, 04:00 AM) *
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 18 2007, 06:17 PM) *
I'd add some points for the higher clock speed.

You shouldn't. As noted, N800 will run just the same as N810 with an OS2008 upgrade.

I didn't know if that was fact or speculation, but I did read it. Sorry for the misinformed post, then.
mars
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 19 2007, 04:15 PM) *
QUOTE(fpp @ Oct 19 2007, 04:00 AM) *
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 18 2007, 06:17 PM) *
I'd add some points for the higher clock speed.

You shouldn't. As noted, N800 will run just the same as N810 with an OS2008 upgrade.

I didn't know if that was fact or speculation, but I did read it. Sorry for the misinformed post, then.



Capn, I don't think apologies are needed. You have to sift through I think now hundreds of posts over at internettablettalk to try to separate fact from speculation. The original postings implied that the N810 had a 20% speed increase in the CPU. Later posts implied that the CPU is the same but the N800 was underclocked and that with OS2008 you should get the 400 mHz. Although, I haven't found an "official" reference that says what you do and don't get with OS2008 on a N800.

For those trying to decide between a N800 and a N810, I'd say that the N800 with an OS2008 upgrade sounds like the better deal for almost half the price.

Having both a N800 and a Zaurus Cl-3100, I don't find the N800 to be a zaurus replacement for me. Although, the N800 is cool for the convenient and great connectivity aspect.

The N810 might be a zaurus killer when maemo can be ditched and it can run something like pdaXrom or Angstrom or Titchy or BSD as well as the zaurus can. But consider that because Nokia is still actively behind the device and maemo development that it may take a fair amount of time before the N810 has as active a community as the zaurus dedicated to improving alternative "distros." And then, where will the zaurus community be by then?

The zaurus killer I'm waiting for is something not much bigger than the zaurus, with linux installed as default, and can run all the apps (including java) that I have become accustomed to on the desktop. Until then, I think the eeePC will take my next discretionary linux dollars.
fpp
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 19 2007, 08:15 AM) *
QUOTE(fpp @ Oct 19 2007, 04:00 AM) *
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Oct 18 2007, 06:17 PM) *
I'd add some points for the higher clock speed.

You shouldn't. As noted, N800 will run just the same as N810 with an OS2008 upgrade.

I didn't know if that was fact or speculation, but I did read it. Sorry for the misinformed post, then.

Don't be sorry (should have included the smiley...).

It won't be fact till someone can actually run OS2008 on an N800 and compare it to an N810.

But it's more than the usual clueless blog/newssite rumor too, with sources apparently deep in Nokia tech teams, and it sounds plausible.

OTOH maybe I'll be the one handing out excuses inside a month :-)
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