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snk4ever
http://code.google.com/android/index.html

Will it kill OpenMoko ?
koan
QUOTE(snk4ever @ Nov 13 2007, 04:55 AM) *


My opinion is no.

OpenMoko is not going to suddenly disappear, those guys are way to advanced to give up now.
Besides some people see Google as the new MS in waiting; they will prefer OpenMoko because it is "more free"
than Android. If OpenMoko dies it will be because of it's own weaknesses, not because of Google.

It is worth noting, there have been other projects supported by many big companies that failed. Android still has
to prove it's worth, whereas OpenMoko has probably cleared that hurdle already.
zmiq2
My guess is that anyone now is focused on android, so an companies wondering about openmoko will decide android now !

I think openmoko is way too slow now; it should have been the android foundation, in my view, but the did't get into that.

speculatrix
five problems with google android:

http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.c...le-android.html
Mickeyl
I can't see anything in Android compromising OpenMoko's goal. OpenMoko is for people who want to be able to experiment, able to replace anything on their phone, able to have full control over every software component. Android won't give you that. Android may as well be the next Symbian, but it's not sharing the same goal of openness as OpenMoko is. OpenMoko has some years to go until it's ready for mainstream market, but I think until then, we can have enough fun with R&D labs, creative people, geeks, and vertical markets.
snk4ever
QUOTE(Mickeyl @ Nov 27 2007, 03:02 PM) *
I can't see anything in Android compromising OpenMoko's goal. OpenMoko is for people who want to be able to experiment, able to replace anything on their phone, able to have full control over every software component. Android won't give you that. Android may as well be the next Symbian, but it's not sharing the same goal of openness as OpenMoko is. OpenMoko has some years to go until it's ready for mainstream market, but I think until then, we can have enough fun with R&D labs, creative people, geeks, and vertical markets.

Thanks for your opinion, I hope this is what will happen ^^.
speculatrix
it does seem as if Google have made a big noise about openness, when in fact they mean they provide the SDK free - pretty much like Palm did! However, you can't actually get source code to the android platform, so we couldn't port it ourselves to Zaurus, nor even change many of its inner workings.

so, I'm with Mickey on this one, OpenMoko is still our best chance at a truly open mobile handset!
adf
QUOTE(Mickeyl @ Nov 27 2007, 02:02 PM) *
I can't see anything in Android compromising OpenMoko's goal. OpenMoko is for people who want to be able to experiment, able to replace anything on their phone, able to have full control over every software component. Android won't give you that. Android may as well be the next Symbian, but it's not sharing the same goal of openness as OpenMoko is. OpenMoko has some years to go until it's ready for mainstream market, but I think until then, we can have enough fun with R&D labs, creative people, geeks, and vertical markets.

Years?
I was kinda hoping for an earlier (post dev phase) Neo release...
Mickeyl
QUOTE
Years?
I was kinda hoping for an earlier (post dev phase) Neo release...


GTA02 will be released early next year, however my realistic assumption (not wearing any OpenMoko hat, but just being a member of the FOSS community) is that it may as well take 12 to 24 months before OpenMoko as a software-stack has the majurity to compete with the big players. Think about how long GNOME and KDE took. I think both desktop environments are just _now_ slowly starting to innovate and leaving their competitors behind.

In few months you will be able to use the current OpenMoko stack on a day-to-day basis, but it's far from the platform for innovation that I have in mind -- and on my personal roadmap (which is not necessarily shared by OpenMoko, Inc.).
speculatrix
interview with HTC's CEO about android etc
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/10/the-eng...hou-ceo-of-htc/

it irks me somewhat that if HTC had been talking to google for two years about android and playing with linux on their smartphones, then they could have released linux drivers for their hardware (many of their devices have devices in common).
speculatrix
Willcom hardware prototype platform demo'd
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/11/willcom...roid-prototype/
Hagbard
Clever Hungarians have got android running on a Z
http://euedge.com/blog/2007/12/06/google-a...zaurus-sl-c760/

Nice to play with - I wonder if it can be made to dual boot?
Snappy
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Nov 29 2007, 06:16 AM) *
it does seem as if Google have made a big noise about openness, when in fact they mean they provide the SDK free - pretty much like Palm did! However, you can't actually get source code to the android platform, so we couldn't port it ourselves to Zaurus, nor even change many of its inner workings.

so, I'm with Mickey on this one, OpenMoko is still our best chance at a truly open mobile handset!


Ironically, that's the kind of openness that most consumers and OEMs really only want or need. Most of these OEMs do not want to spend $$ on R&D folks to twinker with some OS on their devices (or notebooks for that matter). They just want an easily available SDK that they can use. Somewhere along the line, this got blurred with Open Source, and suddenly everyone is an open source pundit. tongue.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(Hagbard @ Dec 11 2007, 11:21 PM) *
Clever Hungarians have got android running on a Z
http://euedge.com/blog/2007/12/06/google-a...zaurus-sl-c760/

Nice to play with - I wonder if it can be made to dual boot?


damn clever, that! it'd be cool if someone did an OpenEmbedded toolkit, I'd love to be able to demo android to my colleagues and make them admire my l33t sk1llz!

I guess they'll have it running on the Nokia tablets next.
jpmatrix
and here is the sequel :

Google Android runs on Sharp Zaurus SL-C3000

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/article/74237419.html
speculatrix
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 23 2007, 03:32 PM) *
and here is the sequel :

Google Android runs on Sharp Zaurus SL-C3000

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/article/74237419.html


wooo, I hope that an angstrom dev will take a look and add a package to the feed with the kernel module, and possibly a recipe for installing android too!
cortez
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Dec 24 2007, 02:22 PM) *
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 23 2007, 03:32 PM) *
and here is the sequel :

Google Android runs on Sharp Zaurus SL-C3000

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/article/74237419.html


wooo, I hope that an angstrom dev will take a look and add a package to the feed with the kernel module, and possibly a recipe for installing android too!


Just spotted a package linux-android-goldfish_2.6.23-rc20.bb described as "2.6 Linux Android Kernel from Google" in Poky trunk smile.gif
cortez
I compiled a minimal boot image, maybe some of you want to give it a try. Just extract the files on a SD and do the usual flashing. The updater.sh is from my Debian-experiment, but it works nicely. It boots on my C3100, that's all it does so far. What has to be done next is described in the instructions here (copy ramdisk.img.gz, system.tar.gz and data.tar.gz, extract it, etc). I'll try tomorrow, but now it's time to get some sleep wink.gif

Good luck!
jpmatrix
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 25 2007, 01:26 AM) *
I compiled a minimal boot image, maybe some of you want to give it a try. Just extract the files on a SD and do the usual flashing. The updater.sh is from my Debian-experiment, but it works nicely. It boots on my C3100, that's all it does so far. What has to be done next is described in the instructions here (copy ramdisk.img.gz, system.tar.gz and data.tar.gz, extract it, etc). I'll try tomorrow, but now it's time to get some sleep wink.gif

Good luck!


please tell us more asap ! are the known bugs resolved (touchscreen,...) ?
jpmatrix
network is now up :

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/

speculatrix
I love the way the linux community can turn a vapourware product into reality!
cortez
I have it all set up, but the /dev/binder is missing, so starting android ends with an endless bouncing red dot. Anyone know how to setup the /dev/binder ?
Maybe, if some of you are interested, I could upload the installer and root filesystem somewhere for you to try it yourself
jpmatrix
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 26 2007, 11:08 PM) *
I have it all set up, but the /dev/binder is missing, so starting android ends with an endless bouncing red dot. Anyone know how to setup the /dev/binder ?
Maybe, if some of you are interested, I could upload the installer and root filesystem somewhere for you to try it yourself


you can upload it on my ftp and i'll make it public
unhopefully i won't have time to test it before a week as i'll be out for some holidays

cortez
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 26 2007, 11:12 PM) *
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 26 2007, 11:08 PM) *
I have it all set up, but the /dev/binder is missing, so starting android ends with an endless bouncing red dot. Anyone know how to setup the /dev/binder ?
Maybe, if some of you are interested, I could upload the installer and root filesystem somewhere for you to try it yourself


you can upload it on my ftp and i'll make it public
unhopefully i won't have time to test it before a week as i'll be out for some holidays


Thanks, but I'm having problems uploading the files to your server (no route to host). I'll try again later
matthis
Could anyone having this working make a video, so that we can see how fast/responsive it is on the Z?
Thanks
jpmatrix
QUOTE(matthis @ Dec 27 2007, 04:28 AM) *
Could anyone having this working make a video, so that we can see how fast/responsive it is on the Z?
Thanks


ftp is now up smile.gif
cortez
too bad jpmatrix's ftp doesn't work for me, so I had to dust off my own server wink.gif

Download following files:
Android root filesystem
gnutar
updater.sh
zImage (patched angstrom kernel)

Copy the files to SD and flash the system in the usual way. After finishing and reboot, login with root and type /start

Now, here's where I'm having problems. The bouncing ball simple doesn't stop bouncing. What I found out was that pressing ctrl+alt and 1 or 2 a couple of times shows a logging message. After that, pressing ctrl+alt+menu shows a few system commands, like reboot, tErm, poweroff etc.

Try for yourself. Maybe I miss something simple and this is easy to solve. I've followed the instructions here strictly,

Good luck.
cortez
adf
wink.gif
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 27 2007, 03:23 PM) *
too bad jpmatrix's ftp doesn't work for me, so I had to dust off my own server wink.gif

Download following files:
Android root filesystem
gnutar
updater.sh
zImage (patched angstrom kernel)

Copy the files to SD and flash the system in the usual way. After finishing and reboot, login with root and type /start

Now, here's where I'm having problems. The bouncing ball simple doesn't stop bouncing. What I found out was that pressing ctrl+alt and 1 or 2 a couple of times shows a logging message. After that, pressing ctrl+alt+menu shows a few system commands, like reboot, tErm, poweroff etc.

Try for yourself. Maybe I miss something simple and this is easy to solve. I've followed the instructions here strictly,

Good luck.
cortez

any reviews? how are the apps? which work?...etc. does it seem to be a good useable interface? do tell!
jpmatrix
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 26 2007, 11:08 PM) *
I have it all set up, but the /dev/binder is missing, so starting android ends with an endless bouncing red dot. Anyone know how to setup the /dev/binder ?
Maybe, if some of you are interested, I could upload the installer and root filesystem somewhere for you to try it yourself


this blog seems to talk about it :

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/article/75144027.html

would you send us some news about what is working (apps, devices, ...) and some screenshots too ? smile.gif
cortez
Yeah, I know. I'm already in contact with the blog-guy wink.gif
If you want to see what is included currently you can install the SDK and run the emulator

QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 28 2007, 02:48 PM) *
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 26 2007, 11:08 PM) *
I have it all set up, but the /dev/binder is missing, so starting android ends with an endless bouncing red dot. Anyone know how to setup the /dev/binder ?
Maybe, if some of you are interested, I could upload the installer and root filesystem somewhere for you to try it yourself


this blog seems to talk about it :

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/article/75144027.html

would you send us some news about what is working (apps, devices, ...) and some screenshots too ? smile.gif

jpmatrix
ok wink.gif

i noticed you put a patched angstrom kernel. why ? it's not possible to run it with the actual latest angstrom kernel ?
cortez
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 28 2007, 07:15 PM) *
ok wink.gif

i noticed you put a patched angstrom kernel. why ? it's not possible to run it with the actual latest angstrom kernel ?


First I tried the linux-android-goldfish_2.6.23-rc20 package supplied with poky. This results in a never ending red bouncing ball during startup. Then I tried to follow the instructions in the blogs as literally as possible. That's why I used Angstrom and patched the kernel as described. The results are the same unfortunately.

The log messages are:
CODE
binder_open(c2de76c8 c03ab9c0) (pid 1392) got c31360000
+++ post-zygote
binder_open(c2de76c8 c03ab9c0) (pid 1392) got c0f34000
******* NO FRAMEBUFFER VSYNC WAIT IOCTL *******
Prepping:
...
Prep complete

If someone has any clue how to solve this, please share!
jpmatrix
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 28 2007, 07:42 PM) *
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 28 2007, 07:15 PM) *
ok wink.gif

i noticed you put a patched angstrom kernel. why ? it's not possible to run it with the actual latest angstrom kernel ?


First I tried the linux-android-goldfish_2.6.23-rc20 package supplied with poky. This results in a never ending red bouncing ball during startup. Then I tried to follow the instructions in the blogs as literally as possible. That's why I used Angstrom and patched the kernel as described. The results are the same unfortunately.

The log messages are:
CODE
binder_open(c2de76c8 c03ab9c0) (pid 1392) got c31360000
+++ post-zygote
binder_open(c2de76c8 c03ab9c0) (pid 1392) got c0f34000
******* NO FRAMEBUFFER VSYNC WAIT IOCTL *******
Prepping:
...
Prep complete

If someone has any clue how to solve this, please share!


it seems to be a general trouble:
http://www.android-internals.org/index.php?title=Nokia_770
cortez
Finally, I've been able to get this thing working. The speed is incredible, really, I didn't expect any Java based OS could be that responsive! For instance, system (OS) startup takes 27 seconds. Browser startup takes 6 seconds

I will upload a working version shortly. I'm thinking about making two different versions. Version one being a complete dedicated android-distro, and version two especially for the people using some-2.6.23 distro (debian, poky, angstrom) already (just an archive file).
jpmatrix
QUOTE(cortez @ Dec 29 2007, 11:37 AM) *
Finally, I've been able to get this thing working. The speed is incredible, really, I didn't expect any Java based OS could be that responsive! For instance, system (OS) startup takes 27 seconds. Browser startup takes 6 seconds

I will upload a working version shortly. I'm thinking about making two different versions. Version one being a complete dedicated android-distro, and version two especially for the people using some-2.6.23 distro (debian, poky, angstrom) already (just an archive file).


that's a great piece of news!
i'll let my ftp opened this night if you want wink.gif
jpmatrix
following this howto, i'll try to launch it under debian :

http://androidzaurus.seesaa.net/article/75131152.html

so far modprobe binder is ok !
now i'm untaring your rootfs !
jpmatrix
whow!
i've just launched android, but i only see the red bouncing ball... so i'm waiting for your new rootfs !!!!
2or0
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 29 2007, 09:32 AM) *
whow!
i've just launched android, but i only see the red bouncing ball... so i'm waiting for your new rootfs !!!!


I got it on debian with my patched kernel. If you need howto, I will write it down.
jpmatrix
QUOTE(2or0 @ Dec 29 2007, 07:01 PM) *
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 29 2007, 09:32 AM) *
whow!
i've just launched android, but i only see the red bouncing ball... so i'm waiting for your new rootfs !!!!


I got it on debian with my patched kernel. If you need howto, I will write it down.


ok!
a howto or a working rootfs would be great smile.gif
cortez
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 29 2007, 07:05 PM) *
QUOTE(2or0 @ Dec 29 2007, 07:01 PM) *
QUOTE(jpmatrix @ Dec 29 2007, 09:32 AM) *
whow!
i've just launched android, but i only see the red bouncing ball... so i'm waiting for your new rootfs !!!!


I got it on debian with my patched kernel. If you need howto, I will write it down.


ok!
a howto or a working rootfs would be great smile.gif


On a working debian-2.6.23 distro it's quite easy actually. The instructions here are correct and complete. Make sure to extract the ramdisk.img, system.tar and data.tar in /home/root/android-root. Use the binder module as described here and make sure to set the correct permissions on /dev/binder using chmod 666 /dev/binder
cortez
Full installable distro image with instructions can be found here smile.gif
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