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Snappy
http://www.nseries.com/index.html#l=products,n810,demo

Any takers? laugh.gif
Capn_Fish
There are all of a sudden a good number of very tempting gadgets, most of them at very good prices. I wish I could justify getting the Fujitsu, the EEEPC, or the N810, but I just can't at the moment sad.gif.

So yes, I am VERY tempted, but not at this point in time.
anonuk
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 13 2007, 11:31 AM) *
There are all of a sudden a good number of very tempting gadgets, most of them at very good prices. I wish I could justify getting the Fujitsu, the EEEPC, or the N810, but I just can't at the moment sad.gif.

So yes, I am VERY tempted, but not at this point in time.


I think i've finally found my zaurus replacement.....
nilch
I am going for the N810 too - my Zaurus replacemernt and in-car GPS device too.

Niiiiiccccce !
harvell
here... here... I'm already starting to give hints to my wife that I may get one. I may have to sell my C1K though sad.gif. Did anyone notice that Reed Richards was using a Nokia N800 on Fantastic Four 2 Rise of the Silver Surfer???
alijames
Indeed,

I have had a 770 for ~4 months now (got it from expansys for £70!!) This works great, and I have been picking up the 770 more than the 3100 for most of that time.

A doubling of Clock speed and RAM, 2GB of onboard Flash AND a gps, along with the existing integral BT & Wifi will probably knock the Zaurus permanently to the sidelines I'm afraid, so a 3100 plus all the addons may be up for grabs in a month or so...

Cheers,

Alistair
freizugheit
Free Palm OS Emulator is available now.
geeko
Dammit, and just after i bought my C1000 ;(
nilch
sell it off as quick as you bought it ... :-)

The n810 is just around he corner - from market gossip ...
Hrw
http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/11/12/zaurus-m...to-be-obsolete/ is worth reading now...
adf
QUOTE(Hrw @ Nov 14 2007, 12:59 PM) *

I read the stuff at the link. I think I don't agree with some of it--agreed there are newer devices which may see better support, and do more , agreed developers have priorities, agreed that sharp doesn't support the Zaurus, and that Angstrom devs will likely be working most on the Neo--and that the neo is a good idea and an interesting device. The thing about Angstrom support for the Zaurus is that it really hasn't been terrific. I've never found an OE or Angstrom release to be useable in any but the most literal and simple minded sense. I agree that OE/Angstrom kernel development for the Z has been tremendously important and influential, and that the time the OE/Angstrom devs have spent on the Z has been good for the community and, I think, for some of the ideas in Neo development.

My take: I wouldn't bet on a really useable Angstrom for anything from Nokia, either-- though possibly some important contributions will be made.
I really only expect polished work on the Neo and related devices--I'll probably buy one and use it. I just don't think that a lack of Angstrom enthusiasm for the Z means much about the state of the Zaurus--pdaXrom continues, and some interesting things are being done with debian (using Angstrom kernels, I admit). The Zaurus has, I think, a bit of useable life left, even if the Angstrom devs abandon it tomorrow- though I hope the build system continues to produce the updated Zaurus kernels that have had such an impact.

Edit-- re the original question, the 810 is very cool, but it would only represent an incremental improvement to my Z (at best) and accessories. the difference doesn't seem worth the expense. Now If I had no Z, ans were interested in a new linux powered handheld I'd probably buy this rather than a "new" Zaurus...
speculatrix
I think adf is right in his rebuttal of hrw's suggestion that the Z is dead - Angstrom is mainly, as I see it, a learning platform for people who are very serious about linux and need very little documentation; OpenZaurus was gaining traction and seemed quite popular and stable in its final moments, but I don't think there are enough Angstrom devs to maintain its vision of being available for so many platforms. Sharp and Cacko distros are a bit like PalmOS - useable, stable, easy to get to grips with, but somewhat stagnant. pdaXrom community is vibrant if a little haphazard?

Nokia, at least, provide some support for their products, even if it's simply maintaining a core platform for people to build on (which Sharp had done long ago but abandoned). The Nxx0 platform isn't truly open though, and they seem to be quite happy to abandon the 770 which isn't really that old and shouldn't be too hard to keep some level of support for - though at least they heard the outcry when they first tried to sweep it out of the way!

I do agree with HRW that the Nokia tablets or similar cutting edge linux handhelds are going to gradually kill off the Z platform simply because of its features, the 810 is the first to make a real dent in the Z's useability advantage of having a keyboard. If the 810's successor improves the keyboard, then I think we'll see more Zaurus owners leaving the Zaurus behind, especially if the Z continues to lack a really good modern web browser.

Personally, I use both my Z and 770. When my laptop's X11 driver broke after a kernel update and I needed to ssh in to it, I picked up my Z (running angstrom), its keyboard make fixing reinstalling the nvidia driver a doddle, but without an external keyboard for the 770 it'd have been painful!
nilch
Just ordered my N810 - its out for sale ftrom Nokia themselves as well as on pre-order from many retailers like Amazon themselves.

Got the best deal from Nokia - they added a $75 discount to make the price at $405 with free shipping too.

The Nokia Sales dept number is 888.665.4228 Option 1, option 2, option 1. Here are the details:
http://tabletblog.com/2007/11/n810-now-available-kinda.html

Quick edit : sorry - just read the thred fully, and also got the follow up call from "Nokia" to verify the adress etc.
Now they say its backordered and will ship on Nov 26th.
Also it seems they are representing Nokia, but its not actually Nokia sales itself. They should have made that clear before itself.

Anyways, still have my order with them - since its cheaper than all else.

Snappy
As they say ... so much to buy, yet so little dime ... tongue.gif

I just saw an ad in my place showing a compaq notebook going for ~USD$414. It's crazy, but still it's a full notebook with DVD burner and all, 14" beast ... oh wait ... ya I know, it's not a mini thingie ... but still ...

Note to self: Must stop buying notebooks just because they are diiiiirt cheap! biggrin.gif
2nd note to self: Must not buy n810 or any other gadget until June 2008!!! ho ho ho ...
3rd note to self: x'mas and new year is not a good reason to get gifts for myself! .... biggrin.gif
Capn_Fish
QUOTE(Snappy @ Nov 17 2007, 12:15 PM) *
3rd note to self: x'mas and new year is not a good reason to get gifts for myself! .... biggrin.gif

But is it a good time to con others into getting gifts for you? tongue.gif
brashley46
Looks very cool, and I will have to replace the old C860 soon. How much are they going to charge for this in $C, I wonder?

Edit ... just answered my own question. One website at least has them on preorder for $C510. The C1000 is still cheaper, and will answer most of my needs ...
Capn_Fish
Is there an X11 port to the N810? It would be much more appealing if that were the case, and my searches haven't turned up anything (but I am horrible at searching).

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, and thanks.
fpp
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 19 2007, 04:02 PM) *
Is there an X11 port to the N810? It would be much more appealing if that were the case, and my searches haven't turned up anything (but I am horrible at searching).
Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, and thanks.

I believe the Nokia tablets (770 and N8x0) actually *run* X11, with a modified version of Gnome (meaning GTK-based apps are basically portable, Qt apps less so -- although there is a full-blown port of KDE itself available for the N800).
Capn_Fish
Dang. I was hoping for an excuse not to get one. sad.gif

Can anybody else confirm or deny this?
rickh
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 20 2007, 06:45 PM) *
Dang. I was hoping for an excuse not to get one. sad.gif

Can anybody else confirm or deny this?

It's true. Runs X11 with modified Gnome. Porting GTK apps is fairly straightfoward, however you still should "Hildonize" the app which isn't so straightfoward.

R.
==
Capn_Fish
Is it a similar process to building/packaging for/on the Z? What about FLTK and SDL stuff?

Thanks, and sorry for having so many questions (I keep hoping there will be a major flaw so I don't want one so badly)
fpp
Don't just believe me, go read the official docs :-)

From the Maemo Quick Start Guide :

http://maemo.org/development/documentation...start-guide.pdf

"3.2 Base distribution
Maemo is based to a large extent on the same open source components found in the
Debian[7] Linux distribution. Maemo builds on GNU/Linux for operating system core
and GNOME/GTK+ for user interface architecture.
Maemo uses the same component packaging system as Debian - dpkg-tool’s binary
packages. New packages can be installed, old ones can be removed and the whole sys-
tem can be upgraded by the package management framework. The ?le system structure
also comes from Debian.
(...)
Also notably the maemo platform adheres closely to the GNOME Mobile
Platform[16]. At the time of writing, maemo uses all the same components as this
platform except for service discovery."
Capn_Fish
This is definately a very bad turn of events for my wallet sad.gif

Thanks!
rickh
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 20 2007, 07:31 PM) *
This is definately a very bad turn of events for my wallet sad.gif

Thanks!

One negative (well, perhaps not): No Java. Well, in truth, there is a GUI-less Java available, but it's fairly useless.

The Zaurus had some decent Java-based apps |Project Manager was great) that I would have loved to be able to use on the Nokia.

R.
==
fpp
Very true. Nokia seem very reticent to provide this port themselves, and are waiting for someone else to do it (Sun or another third-party).

It may only be a matter of time however, as the user base and notoriety of Nokia's tablets expand dramatically with each iteration. In 2005/2006 the 770 was very confidential and mainly a geek toy. This year the N800 was more heavily marketed as part of the N series, more widespread and easily available. Now it seems the N810 is going to be all over the place :-)

Also, the Nokia/Maemo team's relationship with upstream projects (GTK, Gnome, embedded-gnome & mobile-Ubuntu etc.), its developer community and user base, has had its ups and downs but seems to have found its way, and is paying off handsomely in the latest (4.0) version of the Tablet OS...
Capn_Fish
Sorry for all the questions, but I have (at least) one more (Is there a good place to look for answers, like a consolidated FAQ or something?): Can you make the n810 feel like a regular Linux system (dev tools, change the WM, themes, etc)?

Thanks for the quick, helpful responses and the patience.
fpp
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 20 2007, 06:12 PM) *
Sorry for all the questions, but I have (at least) one more (Is there a good place to look for answers, like a consolidated FAQ or something?): Can you make the n810 feel like a regular Linux system (dev tools, change the WM, themes, etc)?

The definitive and official source of information, again, is http://maemo.org/ . There you will find the blog planet, platform docs, dev toolchains, howtos, etc. There are also two mailing lists run by the Nokia MAemo team (users and devs).

The focus point for the community (like OESF for the Zaurus) is ITT : http://www.internettablettalk.com/ (mostly for the forums).

The regular toolchain is cross-compilation on a Linux PC using Scratchbox. I think there are few dev tools on the tablets proprer, except for Python.

The UI is definitely theme-able.

Changing the WM is a major undertaking, but it's been done (look for posts by "Penguinbait", or about "Mamona").
Capn_Fish
A deal-breaker! biggrin.gif (I need to be able to switch WMs and have good dev tools on the device). Hopefully now I can spend more time on Zaurus stuff (compiling, coding) than debating about whether to get an N810 or not.

Thanks all!
fpp
Peace of mind at last ! Glad to be of help :-)
Snappy
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 18 2007, 02:21 AM) *
QUOTE(Snappy @ Nov 17 2007, 12:15 PM) *
3rd note to self: x'mas and new year is not a good reason to get gifts for myself! .... biggrin.gif

But is it a good time to con others into getting gifts for you? tongue.gif


That's an idea! wink.gif I like the ring of it! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 21 2007, 10:12 AM) *
Sorry for all the questions, but I have (at least) one more (Is there a good place to look for answers, like a consolidated FAQ or something?): Can you make the n810 feel like a regular Linux system (dev tools, change the WM, themes, etc)?

Thanks for the quick, helpful responses and the patience.


I guess as it's been said, it's possible, though there may be an advantage to have the maemo shell/interface for a device of this size.
However, its built in keyboard sure leans weight to having a full blown linux desktop running.

QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Nov 22 2007, 01:09 AM) *
A deal-breaker! biggrin.gif (I need to be able to switch WMs and have good dev tools on the device). Hopefully now I can spend more time on Zaurus stuff (compiling, coding) than debating about whether to get an N810 or not.

Thanks all!

*grin*

If I had not gotten a kohjinsha ... grrr ...
ricky
Hey it really seems to b a coooool gadget. My next target is to buy 1 asap for me. Really Nokia Rocks.....
nilch
I already got mine in hand ... and biy, is it cool indeed .
The finish is very good - brushed metal finish. The keyboard of course doesnt come close to the Zaurus keyboard. Its a but hard also, but functional.

The screen is Wow! As for the real software - its good - functional and neatly arranged. Have been playing all day long since I got it ... Sadly all the N800 software (for OS2007) has still not been ported to OS2008 for Nokia N810 as yet.

But I installed GPE calendar and contacts to get a PIM replacement - as I can't be using both a Zaurus and the 810.
VoiP and Chat works very well, as its is built for that. There are some pretty good tools - a tool to Sync with Google calendar - thats a must for me. Browsing on the 810 itself is absolutely a painless experience (so far).


Snappy
QUOTE(nilch @ Nov 23 2007, 10:43 PM) *
I already got mine in hand ... and biy, is it cool indeed .
The finish is very good - brushed metal finish. The keyboard of course doesnt come close to the Zaurus keyboard. Its a but hard also, but functional.

The screen is Wow! As for the real software - its good - functional and neatly arranged. Have been playing all day long since I got it ... Sadly all the N800 software (for OS2007) has still not been ported to OS2008 for Nokia N810 as yet.

But I installed GPE calendar and contacts to get a PIM replacement - as I can't be using both a Zaurus and the 810.
VoiP and Chat works very well, as its is built for that. There are some pretty good tools - a tool to Sync with Google calendar - thats a must for me. Browsing on the 810 itself is absolutely a painless experience (so far).


GPE Calendar and contacts is nice! smile.gif
adf
QUOTE(nilch @ Nov 23 2007, 05:43 AM) *
The screen is Wow! As for the real software - its good - functional and neatly arranged. Have been playing all day long since I got it ... Sadly all the N800 software (for OS2007) has still not been ported to OS2008 for Nokia N810 as yet.

The software is something that worries me--not what comes packaged, but Nokia's apparent tendency to abandon old platforms. everything they've released is really nice when released and orphaned a year or so later, as far as I can see. Possibly I haven't been paying enough attention
nilch
True - from what I have been catching up on on the Nokia Tablet forums - it seems the there were a lot of API changes in the new OS2008 (os for N810 that also works for N800) which broke a lot of the apps that were there for N800 on the older OS.

The N700 got dumped - development wise, so yes that is indeed a valid complaint toward Nokia. Again as per Nokia developers (and this is a good thing with Nokia unlike Sharp - ther devs hang around and answer on forums), the enhanced API while breaking some functionality, does add a lot more value - but again I dont know enough about it..

Now with the N810 - I am still waiting for Skype on the new OS (it works fine on N800 on OS2007 supposedly).
Also there is no VNC, mplayer (works with workarounds), stable python (pymaemo), and Python based apps (like UKMP) etc still working out of the box on the N810.

Agin the new OS is faster (so they say) and also widgets can be drigged around on the screen (really smooth), there is kinetic scrolling (like iPhone) on various OS2008 apps (like Mauku (Jailu client), Kagumusic player etc). The Kinetic scrolling is pretty nice and smooth too :-)
scottlfa
When my C1000 breaks and dies from my obsessive fiddling ... I will look into buying a N810 (or what ever is out by then). Until then with good care, wise accessory purchases and patients the Z will do for me smile.gif Love the clamshell.
speculatrix
the n770 is still partly supported, at least with critical stuff, and although the official release is v2006, there's a hackers edition 2007 which is basically the 770 kernel with additions and as much of the v2007 edition libraries and packages for N800 as possible, so it's fairly up to date. I imagine there will be an n770 hackers edition which runs 2008 at some point.
of course, the 770 being a bit memory limited with slower CPU will struggle a bit with larger base system, but it means its still useful.
and there's still a fairly big software library for it.

however, after saying all of the above, I think that Nokia have not played nicely in relegating the 770 to the back burner, since provided they write their s/w to the appropriate standards, and the 770 has many common attributes with 800 and 810, then surely all they have to do is build a kernel for the 770 (ok, maybe they'd have to update a few driver modules) and all the user space stuff should be identical?
nilch
Well, I ran into a stumbling block with the N810... couldn't import the Zaurus exported KoPi and Kapi contacts and Calendar files and import it back in GPE Calendar and GPE contacts on the N810. DAMN !

Now, me thinks I have to stick with the Zaurus some more time .. in fact just put in back on charge ... :-)

But on the other hand the N810 works fantastic as a connecction device (auto connmects to my home Wifi while at home, or else autoconnects to my GRPS over phone via bluetooth. Voip is pretty good - I used Gtalk and Gizmo.
Even found my shared drives (without needing any tweaking) and I can wirelessly transfer files to/from my desktop.
Overall the software feels much more finished for the end-user unlike the Zaurus which could (and still can) do more potentially, but required much more tweaking and modifiying conf files here and there.

Actually now that I dont use the GPS much on the N810 and the keyborad is nowhere near the Zaurus - I feel maybe I could downgrade to the N800 (whch runs the same software now) and save myself around $200 bucks.
Ha - decisions and decisions ...
mars
Nilch said: Well, I ran into a stumbling block with the N810... couldn't import the Zaurus exported KoPi and Kapi contacts and Calendar files and import it back in GPE Calendar and GPE contacts on the N810. DAMN !

Try the openhand pimlico apps. The contact and calendar apps both have import functions (on pdaxii3 as well as the nokia). They also use the evolution database format. On pdaxii3, I tried importing a kopi calendar file in the pimilco calendar. It imported fine, but the timezone was off.

The pimlico contact app seems okay. I really don't like the pimlico calendar app.

For an alternative calendar app on the nokia, you could try Gene Cash's python calendar app, which so far seems to work. URL is here: http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/nokia/index.html

-mars
Antikx
I realize I'm pure evil for posting this, but dell is selling the N800 for 75$ off for the next couple days.
*sigh*
a search of nokia n800 should pull it up.
...or just go here: dell.com smile.gif
zmiq2
Uhm... where's that deal? Any links?
Antikx
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Dec 3 2007, 03:21 PM) *
Uhm... where's that deal? Any links?

Added link to my post, see above
nilch
QUOTE(Antikx @ Dec 3 2007, 04:11 PM) *
I realize I'm pure evil for posting this, but dell is selling the N800 for 75$ off for the next couple days.


Woah, for a moment I read that as Dell is selling it for $75 and I instaltly jumped up and went to the site looking up for a $75 N800. Alas, that was not to be - its for $199 after a $75 off.
Actually many retailers (Buy.com) also had it for $199 for quite sime time (and for Black Friday).

I can't justify another N800 to wifey, after the N810 - but could have if it was for $75 tongue.gif - with enough love to go with it biggrin.gif
nilch
Thanks MARS ...

I ultimately got it to import the Vcards from the Zaurus. Seems like one entry was the culprit with some invalid field value ... the rest of them imported fine after some experimentation - with both Contacts and Calendar.

But sadly the PIM on Nokia is no match with KoPi and Kapi.
nilch
I just came across this
http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/software-development/

QT for the OS2008 (the OS for N810 and N800 devices).
The home page doesnt still show anything for the project as yet ... if true this is too good to be true ..
Does this imply that all Zaurus apps (or most) can be ported to the N810 also ?

That would be great - to have the best of both worlds - QT and Hildon GTK apps on the same device. Dont know about performance though.

Still tweaking ny new N810 to perfection - but I giess I will have to give this a try to install at least.
jpmatrix
tell us more about browsing under the n810 : how fast is it ? are all web sites render with frames and javascript ?
for example maps.google.com or www.facebook.com
how are adobe flash pages managed ?
Tom61
Very tempting, particularly with OS2008.

nilch: I wouldn't get your hopes up too high on a functional QT port. There was a good run at getting QT working on the 770, but that went nowhere. It seems difficult to install and doesn't have control of things like powering down.

jpmatrix: There are Youtube videos showing how the N800 (before and after OS2008) performs on websites. It has Adobe Flash Player 9, that works with nearly everything from what I've seen on Youtube and on Internet Tablet Talk.
Antikx
QUOTE(nilch @ Dec 3 2007, 04:21 PM) *
QUOTE(Antikx @ Dec 3 2007, 04:11 PM) *
I realize I'm pure evil for posting this, but dell is selling the N800 for 75$ off for the next couple days.


Woah, for a moment I read that as Dell is selling it for $75 and I instaltly jumped up and went to the site looking up for a $75 N800. Alas, that was not to be - its for $199 after a $75 off.
Actually many retailers (Buy.com) also had it for $199 for quite sime time (and for Black Friday).

I can't justify another N800 to wifey, after the N810 - but could have if it was for $75 tongue.gif - with enough love to go with it biggrin.gif

hee hee. ya $75 would be sweet.

Buy.com says it's selling it for $229
did they raise it?
speculatrix
QUOTE(Antikx @ Dec 4 2007, 04:46 AM) *
Buy.com says it's selling it for $229
did they raise it?


My brother and I bought one each, paying $229 from Amazon, because they had stock and we could trust them to deliver next day to his friend who we discovered was coming to England at short notice. They arrived yesterday (Mon 3rd), and I'm itching to get my hands on mine!
Antikx
The deal on Dell's site is gone now. sad.gif
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