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ArchiMark
Saw Antikx's post over at his Tyrannozaurus website today about whether there's future for Zaurus??

Perfect timing of this post as in the past day or so I've found myself pondering whether to pickup another 3200 as I sold my other Z's last year....

Not even sure why I'm thinking about this, maybe it's the feeling that soon they'll be gone, at least new ones...

Anyway, am I nutz or is the Z still a useful option compared to newer options such as a Nokia N810 for example????......

;-)


What does this illustrious group think????

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Mark
Capn_Fish
Zaurus FTW!

I'll hopefully be awake enough to post why later... (keyboard, OS choices, community, etc.)

EDIT: I say Zaurii because they are a great form factor, can run standard Linux/act like "normal" Linux machines, have a great support community, and active development.
speculatrix
I picked up a cheap n800 - GBP130 - via a friend of my brother in california

I love the n800, but it's a very different beast to the zaurus and my palmt3, and all are different from my sony tx2 ultraportable.

I use the zaurus as a mini linux laptop for actual linux experimentation - coding, shell scripting, serial terminal, wireless sniffer, etc. I've learned a bit of qt/qtopia and wrote a simple game. It's currently being my android playground, and I hope I can dual-boot cacko with angstrom/debian/android at some point!

I use the n800 as a web browser, media player, radio streamer, occasional email client, mapping, and basically any interesting application I find - it's more of an appliance to me. perhaps it's the lack of a keyboard? I have been trying to get scratchbox installed, but it's not been trivial, as I want to be able to compile stuff and learn a bit of hildon/maemo/gtk.

I use the PalmT3 solely as a PIM, at which it is excellent, and for some palm games, and occasionally to run TomTomPalm. The screen res is too low for browsing, and it doesn't have wifi anyway.

If I had lots and lots of money and didn't care about the waste, I'd ebay the lot and probably get a PalmTX* or Treo for PIM and games, and a Nokia N810 as my handheld linux hacking tool. For a laptop I'd probably get the Toshiba R500 - have compared them with my Sony TX2 and a colleague's Soiny TZ and they're a bit better; I might consider the Fujitsu U810 but I suspect the keyboard would be frustrating.

* I bought my wife a TX for birthday, and I like it quite a lot. I should have given her my Palm T3 and kept the TX!!

this is all my personal perspective, and all these devices have compromises that some people don't care or don't notice, but other people cannot stand!
jpmatrix
the question is terrible .... but the answer too : it depends on what you're looking for tongue.gif

zaurus is wonderful as a pocketable device where you have quite everything avalaible, but chipset is an ARM so you always have to wait for people developping new software or you can choose to compile yourself but with many difficulties...

that 's why i finally choosed to sell it (snif!) and take a Fujitsu U1010, with builtin bluetooth and wifi, a wide 1024x600 screen for browsing, etc... but it has its drawbacks too.......

but anyway...that's definitely not easy to find the perfect device wink.gif
ArchiMark
THANKS Capn_Fish, speculatrix, and jpmatrix fcor your input! Very helpful....

So, I guess I'm not nutz for thinking about a Z again..... wink.gif

FWIW, had a N800 for about 2 weeks when they first came out...nice but didn't see much reason for keeping it at the time since I don't have wifi access most of the day..do have ethernet access though....

So, N810 seems better due to having a keyboard....makes it a bit more like a Z, slightly larger and with thumboard, not keyboard....


Hmmmm.......

rolleyes.gif
zmiq2
I had a htc tytn ii (you know, a windows mobile 6 3G/wifi/bluetooth with sliding keyboard) but I sold it after 2 months:

- browsing was really painful
- even the 128MRAM, it felt slugish
- screen resolution 240x320 is definitelly not enough

so I'm lurking in ebay for the fujitsu u810/u1010.... my next victim?

nilch
I bought a N810 and have been using my N810 exclusively in place of the Zuaurs.

It is the perfect replacement ? - hell no.
But its has its own advantages and so far they have trumped over the Zaurus in many ways.

Firstly - it has a keyboard which makes typing emails on the go and notes possible and better than on a N800 (my wife uses a N800).
But of course the keyboard in no way compares to the Zaurus keyboard whch was far better.

Connectivity : Trumpts the Zaurus in all ways. I had to buy an CF Wifi card for the Zaurus to use it for Wifi networking.
The N810 built-in wifi is better than the CF Wifi on Zaurus. The N810- also gives mt BT Networking, hence I can just BT PAN over my 3G phone to get the internet when I don't have Wifi.

Browser and Multimedia is definitely better on the N810 than on the Zaurus. (Canola beats the hell out of any media apps on Zaurus, and there are others as well).

PIM is lacking in N810. With GPE apps I at least have access to basic Calendering and contacts on N810. Zaurus was better in this regards with KoPI suite.
Again GPE Calendar does sync with Google Calendar wirelessly, so that is again one advantage - I can check GCal without opening uip a browser.

SSH, VNC works on the N810, but the Zaurus was much more tweakable. I dont get the same feeling with the N810. Maybe because I havent played enough with it. I use it more rather than playing and resetting things on it. The Zaurus made me play on it more - it was that friendly as well as use it exhastively.

Office suite functionality really lacks on the N810. The Zuaurus with Textmaker and Hancom apps had Word editing and spreadsheets going for it

I can use my N810 as a GPS unit and a multimedia player in my car (I only play MP3, not Videos when driving :-) It can mount easily on the windshield, the Zaurus really couldnt. Also BT Headphones work on the N810 with A2DP support being hacked onto it. The Zaurus was seriously short in this dept.

Lastly on the form factor issue - the N810 is more carriable in my pocket, now that I have a older Zaurus to compare it with.

But The Zaurus as most others said, was far better in terms of being a PDA and a mini Linux laptop.

Overall, I still have a feeling that the Zaurus HAD more potential which was never filled in for lack of Sharp's support on hardware iterations side, as well as developer support.
ArchiMark
I'm really enjoying my U810/XPT, zmiq2...especially after putting 100GB HD in it...next up Linux....did install andLinux as you can do this from within awindoze, but while it works, I can't get connected to internet so far...might switch to Debian or Ubuntu...

Excellent points, nilch about Z vs N810....tempted to go for a N810 for fun...really like Z, but screen is pretty small....do like it's lil' keyboard though and like you say it really lends itself to tweaking.....

hmmm..........

rolleyes.gif
zmiq2
Uhm... I'm getting the fujitsu either tonite or tomorrow!! can't wait any longer without a new toy!! (that, of course, I'll use for work too)

archimark, thanks for the info
eviLjazz
True about the Fujitsu U810. It's a great device, smaller than the EeePC, convertible, better storage options, but more expensive too. Got myself one a few weeks ago as replacement for my aged Dell Inspiron 8100. I'll see if I can post some comparison pics on my blog soon. I'll definitely keep my Zaurus, since the U810 is a replacement for my laptop, not the Zaurus.
zmiq2
So I have bought a fujitsu. I hope to have it in my hands within a week !
ArchiMark
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 8 2008, 06:26 PM) *
So I have bought a fujitsu. I hope to have it in my hands within a week !


Excellent, zmiq2!

Hope you enjoy it like I enjoy mine....

Especially since I got andLinux ethernet connection working today...so now have XPT and Linux running side-by-side....

smile.gif


Mark
ArchiMark
OK, I must be nutz.....

Just ordered a new 3200......

Couldn't resist....

wink.gif
Capn_Fish
Congratulations!
speculatrix
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Mar 10 2008, 03:58 AM) *
OK, I must be nutz.....

Just ordered a new 3200......

Couldn't resist....

wink.gif


welcome back... what will you install first? Android FTW!
HoloVector
Yes, welcome back.

....Or the latest Poky Linux. Version 3.1 They now have a cute Beaver mascot. tongue.gif
ArchiMark
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Mar 10 2008, 04:34 AM) *
Congratulations!


Thanks, Capn_Fish!

Now, the hard part.....waiting for my new lil' bad boy!!!

wink.gif


QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 10 2008, 05:57 AM) *
welcome back... what will you install first? Android FTW!


Thanks, speculatrix!

Hmmm....good question!!!.....

Maybe, tri-boot, Android, pdaXii, and .....

laugh.gif


ArchiMark
QUOTE(HoloVector @ Mar 10 2008, 06:19 AM) *
Yes, welcome back.

....Or the latest Poky Linux. Version 3.1 They now have a cute Beaver mascot. tongue.gif



Thanks, HoloVector!


Yes, Poky sounds good!!..nothin' wrong with a lil' beaver....

wink.gif

Actually, beaver was the mascot of my ol' high school up in the great Pacific Northwest, way back when.... I kid you not.....

cool.gif



ArchiMark
The Eagle has landed!!!!!!


Well, actually I've got Z again!!!!!!

Chargin' her up right now !!!

cool.gif

biggrin.gif

laugh.gif

Capn_Fish
See, if you're that excited, there's no way you made a bad decision! smile.gif

Congrats and welcome back to the wonderful world of the Zaurus!
ArchiMark
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ Mar 17 2008, 02:07 PM) *
See, if you're that excited, there's no way you made a bad decision! smile.gif

Congrats and welcome back to the wonderful world of the Zaurus!



THANKS, Capn_Fish!

Right now I don't care even if I am nutz!!

wink.gif
speculatrix
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Mar 17 2008, 10:24 PM) *
Right now I don't care even if I am nutz!!


we're all a bit crazy really; I've had four zauruses, my first was an 860 sold to another member, and I still have three, the 6000L is a "frankenzaurus" made from the the best bits of two dead ones! Even now someone managed something clever with it and when we get to try it, we can thing "wow"!
zmiq2
Well, after fighting with customs for longer that expected, I finally have my U810 at home; I'm installing ubuntu right now....

Man, this machine is big and heavy, but otherwise that's the size that fits me !!

I'll try to replace the internal wifi by a 3,5G module, let's see how it works...

speculatrix
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 31 2008, 05:16 PM) *
Well, after fighting with customs for longer that expected, I finally have my U810 at home; I'm installing ubuntu right now....

Man, this machine is big and heavy, but otherwise that's the size that fits me !!

I'll try to replace the internal wifi by a 3,5G module, let's see how it works...


when you say heavy, do you mean relative to its size so that when you pick it up it feels made of lead, or is it merely solid and somewhat large?
zmiq2
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 31 2008, 01:03 PM) *
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 31 2008, 05:16 PM) *
Well, after fighting with customs for longer that expected, I finally have my U810 at home; I'm installing ubuntu right now....

Man, this machine is big and heavy, but otherwise that's the size that fits me !!

I'll try to replace the internal wifi by a 3,5G module, let's see how it works...


when you say heavy, do you mean relative to its size so that when you pick it up it feels made of lead, or is it merely solid and somewhat large?


I'd say a little of both: it feels made of lead and it's somewhat large.

Of course, I might be biased due to the fact that I compare it to a zaurus c750 and to an htc tytn ii, but of course those two other seem toys when talking about what can you do with this device, so I'm still very happy with the U810.

ArchiMark
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 31 2008, 09:16 AM) *
Well, after fighting with customs for longer that expected, I finally have my U810 at home; I'm installing ubuntu right now....

Man, this machine is big and heavy, but otherwise that's the size that fits me !!

I'll try to replace the internal wifi by a 3,5G module, let's see how it works...



Congratz, zmiq2 on your U810....I really like mine....I replaced my HD to Toshiba 100GB and then installed Debian/XFCE4 on it...works pretty well...overall very happy with it, but you can't put it in your pocket like a Z though...

Have fun!

Mark
Ragnorok
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Mar 17 2008, 07:41 PM) *
The Eagle has landed!!!!!!
- Looks like you settled on Debian, at least initially. (grin)
- I'd like to have a 3200 and pop Debian/Android/whatever on there, but I have a 1000 and think SD is access is just too darned slow to run anything off it. (shrug) I got Hiroshi the very month the C1000 was released in Japan and have gotten (and continue to get) lots of good use. Welcome back to the fold, as it were...
ArchiMark
QUOTE(Ragnorok @ Apr 30 2008, 11:05 AM) *
QUOTE(ArchiMark @ Mar 17 2008, 07:41 PM) *
The Eagle has landed!!!!!!
- Looks like you settled on Debian, at least initially. (grin)
- I'd like to have a 3200 and pop Debian/Android/whatever on there, but I have a 1000 and think SD is access is just too darned slow to run anything off it. (shrug) I got Hiroshi the very month the C1000 was released in Japan and have gotten (and continue to get) lots of good use. Welcome back to the fold, as it were...



Thanks for the welcome, Ragnorok!

Yep, got Debian right now....but still have a touchscreen issue I think due to my installing xdm so that I could login as normal user.....

Toying with installing over again fresh, to get rid of problem....

rolleyes.gif

speculatrix
I've been trying to dual-boot debian and cacko; problem is that cacko kernel panics during kexec "boot" when debian starts up. Not had time to really investigate it yet.

I'd still like to see a Nokia 810 and Fujitsu U810 in the flesh to try it out. I'm going to Phoenix end of May but I am not sure whether the usual suspects (Best Buy, Frys, Circuit City or Ultimate would stock it), maybe better for me if I don't get a chance to get tempted.

I still find the Z's flexibility unmatched... the other day I needed to test some cat5 patch ports at work and it was so much easier to walk round with my Z and the CF->ethernet adaptor rather than drag a laptop around! The N800's crippled USB host is a missed opportunity (too little power, wrong type of connector) sad.gif

Now I've lived with the N800 for a while, I have to say that a combined Zaurus and 800 (take the clamshell form factor & keyboard & USB host from the former, the screen + wireless + bluetooth from the latter) would be my ideal. The 810's keyboard is still not as good IMHO. Who knows, maybe the Pandora will be a winner?

I think if I won the lottery (unlikely as I never enter!), I'd commission a company to repackage the Nokia 810 into a zaurus form factor - I've tried myself to find a suitable usb keyboard for a halfway house and the closest I got was a "nano keyboard" which is 30% too big.

enough ramblings!
ArchiMark
QUOTE(speculatrix @ May 3 2008, 03:52 AM) *
I've been trying to dual-boot debian and cacko; problem is that cacko kernel panics during kexec "boot" when debian starts up. Not had time to really investigate it yet.

I'd still like to see a Nokia 810 and Fujitsu U810 in the flesh to try it out. I'm going to Phoenix end of May but I am not sure whether the usual suspects (Best Buy, Frys, Circuit City or Ultimate would stock it), maybe better for me if I don't get a chance to get tempted.


FWIW, only retail store here in Silicone Valley that I've seen N810 at was at MicroCenter. Fry's had the U810 I think, but not sure that I saw it there recently....

QUOTE
I still find the Z's flexibility unmatched... the other day I needed to test some cat5 patch ports at work and it was so much easier to walk round with my Z and the CF->ethernet adaptor rather than drag a laptop around! The N800's crippled USB host is a missed opportunity (too little power, wrong type of connector) sad.gif


I agree that the Z's are great....as for the N810, I did get the USB ethernet working after I got an adapter and use my little HP USB mini-hub...with AC power connected....

QUOTE
Now I've lived with the N800 for a while, I have to say that a combined Zaurus and 800 (take the clamshell form factor & keyboard & USB host from the former, the screen + wireless + bluetooth from the latter) would be my ideal. The 810's keyboard is still not as good IMHO. Who knows, maybe the Pandora will be a winner?


I agree that the clamshell with swivel screen of the Z is the way to go....just with built-in wifi/ethernet/bt....

Don't know about the Pandora....

QUOTE
I think if I won the lottery (unlikely as I never enter!), I'd commission a company to repackage the Nokia 810 into a zaurus form factor - I've tried myself to find a suitable usb keyboard for a halfway house and the closest I got was a "nano keyboard" which is 30% too big.

enough ramblings!


Maybe you should enter!....if you don't you won't win....
wink.gif

the_oak
Been following this thread some lately. Congratulations to ArchiMark for his purchase of a C3200!! I've been inspired to purchase a 1000 off eBay just 5 minutes ago (could not afford a 3200 sad.gif ).

I'm a long time 6000 user, who has had frequent bouts of envy for the clamshell style zauruses (zaurii? whatever). I don't think I'll ever give up my 6000, cause of built in WIFI, and a slightly larger display. But that clamshell form, the availability of more ROMs, and better availability of batteries makes these C series Zaurii very attractive.

Look forward to learning my way around the C1000, and see you around the C1000/C3x00 forums.

EDIT: Yes, you are nuts! But it's not your fault. The Zaurus is just so irresistible!
ArchiMark
QUOTE(the_oak @ May 4 2008, 05:55 PM) *
Been following this thread some lately. Congratulations to ArchiMark for his purchase of a C3200!! I've been inspired to purchase a 1000 off eBay just 5 minutes ago (could not afford a 3200 sad.gif ).

I'm a long time 6000 user, who has had frequent bouts of envy for the clamshell style zauruses (zaurii? whatever). I don't think I'll ever give up my 6000, cause of built in WIFI, and a slightly larger display. But that clamshell form, the availability of more ROMs, and better availability of batteries makes these C series Zaurii very attractive.

Look forward to learning my way around the C1000, and see you around the C1000/C3x00 forums.

EDIT: Yes, you are nuts! But it's not your fault. The Zaurus is just so irresistible!


Thanks, 'the_oak' ! and congratz to you too on your 1000 purchase....have fun with it....

Glad to know that it's OK that I'm nutz over Z's.....

wink.gif

Although right now I'm struggling with getting Debian EABI re-installed on my 3200....
Taking forever to get rootfs tarball decompressed.....

rolleyes.gif

So, it goes....

tongue.gif



Ragnorok
QUOTE(the_oak @ May 5 2008, 12:55 AM) *
I've been inspired to purchase a 1000 off eBay just 5 minutes ago
- Sweet!!
- I've almost got to looking for a C1k on eBay just to have a spare. Dunno when I'll be able to afford anything more, and don't want them to be "out of stock" if Hiroshi ever gives up the ghost. Alas.
QUOTE
I'm a long time 6000 user...
- I sooo lusted after a 6k when they were out, but by the time I could afford one the C series was available. Couldn't resist that keyboard.
QUOTE
The Zaurus is just so irresistible!
- I don't think you're nuts. You are appropriately unwilling to compromise (wink)...
the_oak
Well, my c1000 shipped last Monday, and according to tracking info, it may arrive here tomorrow. (on pins & needles!)

So AchiMark, what have you done so far with yours? Mine is supposed to have Cacko 1.23 already installed on it, so I guess I'll play with that a while. The suggestion to run Debian from an SD card while retaining Cacko sounds interesting. I think I'll investigate that.
ArchiMark
QUOTE(the_oak @ May 11 2008, 05:35 PM) *
Well, my c1000 shipped last Monday, and according to tracking info, it may arrive here tomorrow. (on pins & needles!)

So AchiMark, what have you done so far with yours? Mine is supposed to have Cacko 1.23 already installed on it, so I guess I'll play with that a while. The suggestion to run Debian from an SD card while retaining Cacko sounds interesting. I think I'll investigate that.


Hope you got your C1000 by now, the_oak!

As for me, I've got Debian EABI running on it....excellent!!

Tried very briefly going back to pdaXii13, but just didn't feel as good me after using Debian, but that's just my take on it....YMMV.....

Have fun!

wink.gif


the_oak
Just a progress report.

Got my C1000 yesterday. Been playing with it, flashed a fresh install of Cacko 1.23, some apps, games and such. Tried out WIFI with the included Ambicom WL1100C-CF card. So far so good. It also came with a really nice PDair leather case that is obviously designed for this device. I have a 4 GB MMC Plus card bought off newegg, which works well (at least formatted fat32) using the 2 GB SD driver here: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?act=at...ost&id=2301 that was mentioned in this thread: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...t=0&start=0 . Next I need to find a better libSDL, and try formatting the 4 GB MMC Plus card as ext2. But I should go to the c1000/C3XX0 forums for that.

Thanks to ArchiMarcK for inspiring this! And Thanks also for other posters' input.

conundrum
Ah, this is just the thread I've been looking for!

I've owned a Palm Zire 71, a Zaurus 5500, 860 and now a 3200. I liked the 860 the most, but wanted more storage! Now I find myself with a bit of a dilemma: do I make the jump off the Zaurus ship to a N810, or do I try to make my Zaurus fit my needs a little better? I've been running pdaXii for a while now, it's great in how many things you can do with it but I find myself wishing it would load up faster! Another thing I find myself needing now is PIM applications.

When I first started using Zaurii I was a full time student, and "party at Kyle's" isn't that hard to remember. Now I am a systems administrator (!) and find that I need to take notes, keep track of meetings, etc. My round about post leads to this question: What's the best choice for a fast loading PDA that will also store and play music, as well as doing SSH? Should I switch to Cacko or Angstrom, or just setup pdaXrom to run mostly off flash?
Capn_Fish
If you really want PIM stuff, the N810 probably isn't any better of a choice than the Z.

Any distro will load almost instantly (assuming you just suspend and don't actually shut down). Angstrom is nice*, and has similar capabilities as pdaX (different quirks, perhaps fewer, and more up-to-date).

*GPE and Opie are lousy IMO, so you kind of need to build your own image if you want a straight-up X11 environment (by that I mean with a "standard" environment, like Xfce or Fluxbox or IceWM) . So long as you have a Linux box with some free space, it's mostly painless (and simple).
stupkid
Yeah, I've been leaning toward using Angstrom. PdaXii13 does work, but it is a dead project. I think that Angstrom will fit the bill for most of what I do. PdaXrom is better for games, but I just don't have time for that these days. Debian and Ubuntu need some work still. So, Angstrom seems like a good choice.
speculatrix
QUOTE(stupkid @ May 22 2008, 06:10 PM) *
Yeah, I've been leaning toward using Angstrom. PdaXii13 does work, but it is a dead project. I think that Angstrom will fit the bill for most of what I do. PdaXrom is better for games, but I just don't have time for that these days. Debian and Ubuntu need some work still. So, Angstrom seems like a good choice.


you missed off android. ok, that's not ready either. yeah, angstrom works well enough to be useable.
conundrum
QUOTE(Capn_Fish @ May 22 2008, 12:25 PM) *
If you really want PIM stuff, the N810 probably isn't any better of a choice than the Z.

Any distro will load almost instantly (assuming you just suspend and don't actually shut down). Angstrom is nice*, and has similar capabilities as pdaX (different quirks, perhaps fewer, and more up-to-date).

*GPE and Opie are lousy IMO, so you kind of need to build your own image if you want a straight-up X11 environment (by that I mean with a "standard" environment, like Xfce or Fluxbox or IceWM) . So long as you have a Linux box with some free space, it's mostly painless (and simple).


I have a very nice T61p laptop for X, I just need SSH, media playing and PIM, really. I suppose I've just come to perceive my 3200 as slower than the 860 because of the hard drive, so really my goal should be more keeping everything I can on flash than complaining about resume times! It looks to me on first glance that Angstrom is as dead as pdaXrom, am I just looking at the wrong site?
speculatrix
QUOTE(conundrum @ May 22 2008, 07:01 PM) *
looks to me on first glance that Angstrom is as dead as pdaXrom, am I just looking at the wrong site?


angstrom people hang out on their mailing list. I'm only on their users mailing list, not their devs, but there's a good group of people willing to help.
Capn_Fish
Yeah. As unfriendly as they (or some of them) may appear on the forums, they're quite nice and helpful on the mailing list.
conundrum
I poked into their download directory, I saw at the top "2007.12" but didn't bother to note the modified date! laugh.gif

I'm quite used to flashing my Zaurus, I think the 5500 was the hardest from a physical point of view. wink.gif
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