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dhns
I was offered recently a small and nice Linux PDA Phone. It has a 2.4 QVGA touchscreen, Quadband GSM, Bluetooth, Camera and runs Qtopia Phone Edition. Some experimentation has shown that it is possible to ftp/telnet into the device. And, it weights just 90g and is only approx. 2/3 of the size of the Neo 1973 although the display isn't much smaller. What do you think I should do?

-- hns

Edit: some photos are shown here: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showto...st&p=175686
Dromede
Motorola A1200?
canguy247
Mail it to me... tongue.gif
dhns
QUOTE(Dromede @ Mar 24 2008, 04:23 PM) *
Motorola A1200?

No, it is a new design. It looks like it is not yet available, so I can't tell many details.

In comparison, the A1200 is 95g and triband only (as far as I can find through Google). And AFAIK, the Motorola Linux is not accessible and not Qtopia.

-- hns
dhns
QUOTE(canguy247 @ Mar 24 2008, 04:45 PM) *
Mail it to me... tongue.gif
Depends on how much you would be willing to pay wink.gif I don't know the final price but I was told it will be a little lower than the Neo.

-- hns
zmiq2
no 3G? then you shouldn't consider it ...
dhns
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 12:02 PM) *
no 3G? then you shouldn't consider it ...
Interesting. Neither the iPhone nor the Openmoko has 3G yet. So, why do you think it needs 3G?

-- hns
zmiq2
Nowadays, for a mobile equipment, I find it more useful to have 3-3.5G connectivity than even wifi.

3/3.5G vs Wifi
- always available, for wifi you need to be close to a hotspot and you cannot move
- everyday new flat-rate operators are coming into the play, so it's not that expensive anymore
- 3.5G can be really fast at least fast for web/mail traffic you cannot tell the difference
- wifi: very unsecure, easily anyone can eavesdrop your network traffic, sites you visit, pop3 account info, ...

Of course I don't consider iPhone neither, for the same reasons.
dhns
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 02:00 PM) *
Nowadays, for a mobile equipment, I find it more useful to have 3-3.5G connectivity than even wifi.

3/3.5G vs Wifi
- always available, for wifi you need to be close to a hotspot and you cannot move
- everyday new flat-rate operators are coming into the play, so it's not that expensive anymore
- 3.5G can be really fast at least fast for web/mail traffic you cannot tell the difference
- wifi: very unsecure, easily anyone can eavesdrop your network traffic, sites you visit, pop3 account info, ...

Of course I don't consider iPhone neither, for the same reasons.
Ah, I see. Then, I think this device wouldn't be something for you anyway. It has Bluetooth but no WiFi. The display is QVGA and 2.4 inch which is good enough for Opera web browsing (included), but not for heavy downloading. I think you may have to look for a much more powerful device category. But as far as I know there is no open Linux 3G device at the horizon, while this one could be available in a couple of weeks.

-- hns
zmiq2
Uhm.. I see

But if all connectivity I have is bluetooth, why should I even care it runs linux?

My understanding is that if you just want basic phone capabilities, OS doesn't matter; but for a smartphne, OS is important to make the handset suit your needs.

My 2cents.
dhns
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 02:17 PM) *
But if all connectivity I have is bluetooth, why should I even care it runs linux?
Connectivity is: GPRS, Bluetooth, USB. It becomes a smartphone by the applications it has: contacts, calendar, browser, mail. The main benefit of having (open) Linux: you can install and develop your own software (binaries) to run on it. But would that change if the device had 3G?

I agree that on a 3G device you can receive mails (attachments...) and large web pages much faster, but that is all what differs. For plain phone calls and SMS 3G has no real benefit.

-- hns
zmiq2
And for plain phone calls and SMS Linux has no real benefit.

Without own connectivity (wifi and/or 3G) the device is very limited, so there's no need for "Linux inside".

Anyway, post a picture of the device asap so we can imagine what is coming in the near future !
dhns
QUOTE(zmiq2 @ Mar 25 2008, 05:33 PM) *
And for plain phone calls and SMS Linux has no real benefit.
Agreed.
QUOTE
Without own connectivity (wifi and/or 3G) the device is very limited, so there's no need for "Linux inside".
Why? Isn't GPRS already fast enough for some tasks? And isn't a Zaurus without any mobile radio useful?

In my view, installing your own apps can be tremendously useful for many off-line applications. So, WiFi, 2G or 3G doesn't care.

Why did people cry for an iPhone SDK? They do not want to be forced to on-line apps. Even on a 2.5G-only iPhone. So, I see your argument as a target for the future (I would also like to have a 3 or 4G Linux PDA phone. Immediately.). But we have to be realistic what is available today.

I think here we have a chance to get a light, small and nice open Linux phone - smaller and lighter than the Neo 1973.

QUOTE
Anyway, post a picture of the device asap so we can imagine what is coming in the near future !
I will try to make one in comparison to a Neo 1973 and a Zaurus.

-- hns
dhns
So, here are some photos. What is your impression?

Size and pen comparison to Neo 1973 and Zaurus C3100:
Click to view attachment

Thickness:
Click to view attachment

Screen:
Click to view attachment

Still the question to everyone: could that be an interesting device so that I should try to find out if this can be really purchased and where/when?

-- hns
speculatrix
a very interesting device. if you take the battery out, is there a clue as to its origins/maker etc?
dhns
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 27 2008, 01:05 AM) *
a very interesting device. if you take the battery out, is there a clue as to its origins/maker etc?

Well, I know the manufacturer but can't publish it here. It appears to be the standard ODM model, i.e. the branding can still be modified.

-- hns
stupkid
On a completely different subject, did you find the screen on the Neo1973 too tiny for typing, etc. dhns? That is my only concern for that device. It seems quite nice in all other aspects.
dhns
QUOTE(stupkid @ Mar 27 2008, 06:00 PM) *
On a completely different subject, did you find the screen on the Neo1973 too tiny for typing, etc. dhns? That is my only concern for that device. It seems quite nice in all other aspects.

Typing accuracy depends on how the pen input is being done. The screen of the Neo isn't much larger, therefore it is not much more precise to hit keys on a virtual keyboard - even if the Neo has 4 times the display resolution (i.e. smaller pixels).

This device has also a handwriting/graffitti type input method (Qtopia).

-- hns
dhns
Here, I have two screen photos showing text input (well, my camera is not the best choice to do that).
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

-- hns
LinuxGadget
laugh.gif Finish?! laugh.gif And the company is ... tongue.gif

SCNR

dhns
QUOTE(LinuxGadget @ Mar 29 2008, 03:52 PM) *
laugh.gif Finish?! laugh.gif And the company is ... tongue.gif

SCNR
What is your message? SCNR.

-- hns

Edit: Now I got the message... No it is not a finnish N95.
dhns
The device has got a name: Letux 380

Dear all,
now it looks achievable that we can really get this nice device as a "Letux 380" for everyone!

First of all it is a real device and I have made some more experiments over the weekend like shooting photos and doing phone calls. The device comes from China and I am in contact with the manufacturer. Fortunately, they are willing to give a little technical support and they want to have a sales partner who can do end-user support for 3rd party software. Because they did not have such a partner yet, they hesitated to open the software, although they have designed the device specifically to be an open PDA/Smartphone, i.e. to allow 3rd party software.

Fortunately, I can now tell a little more about the specs:
  • QVGA touchscreen display (2.4 inch)
  • Quadband GPRS Class 10
  • TI OMAP730
  • 1.3 Mpix camera (can record MPEG4)
  • 90g incl. battery
  • talk time up to 240 min
  • standby up to 200 h
  • 1020 mAh battery
  • 64MB ROM (internal flash) - I don't know if we can install a different kernel or rootfs
  • ca. 46 MB "internal storage" and 12 MB "mobile storage" as one vfat and one ext3 partition (e.g. for settings, music, videos, etc.)
  • 64MB RAM
  • T-flash slot, 1GB T-flash memory card
  • Bluetooth
  • Handsfree
  • USB
  • Qtopia installed, with Dialer, Contacts, Calendar, Opera, MP3, MPEG4, Java, ... - works out of the box
  • based on Linux 2.4.20 (plus patches) - this is mostly binary compatible to the Zaurus!
  • universal charger (100-240V, 50-60Hz)
What we have tested is:
  • there is FTP access built in
  • it is possible to install/start telnetd and OpenSSH (binary taken from the Zaurus version) to get a remote shell
  • more complex binaries and libraries work (main issue is that /bin and /usr are readonly so we have to mangle $PATH and $LD_LIBRARY_PATH)
  • busybox is a little spartanic
Now come the issues: We need to purchase a production lot of at least 1000 units from the manufacturer. This also means that 1000 units have to be sold within approx. 6 months.

The production lead time is approx. 45 days, so the devices will be available by end of May 2008 if we order soon. The price will be in the range of 249 - 299 EUR (incl. 19% German VAT and 2 years warranty) or 300 - 350 US$ (if we ship to outside Europe with only 90 days warranty) - depending on the currency exchange rates when we order.

We will also install a Wiki and a mailing list specific for this device so that we can share ideas, tricks, tips, i.e. how to install additional software and build a community around it.

But for doing that through my company (http://www.handheld-linux.com), we need a partner (preferrably with a rich uncle and within the European Trade Community) to prefinance the stock and help with manging the project. So, if you are interested yourself or know someone who is, please contact me through a private message.


So, what do you think - should we continue? Do you think it is possible to distribute 1000 units at the given specs? Are you interested yourself in hacking this device and adding 3rd party software? Or do you know projects that need such a small and nice Quadband PDA platform?

-- hns
speculatrix
a year or more ago I'd have been very interested in that letux, but I am sorry to say that its specifications seem a bit old especially at the price. I would certainly not consider it unless it were truly open, that full source was provided and most especially for the kernel drivers, and I'd even want to see some basic schematics.

I think what it lacks most is RAM. I could live without wifi if the bluetooth is 2.x high speed. GPS would be a major boost, and quite possibly cheap to add.

Will it do USB host?
Jon_J
QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 12:52 PM) *
[[*] Qtopia installed, with Dialer, Contacts, Calendar, Opera, MP3, MPEG4, Java, ... - works out of the box
[*] based on Linux 2.4.20 (plus patches) - this is mostly binary compatible to the Zaurus!

Opera?? Rip Opera out of it and send it to me... laugh.gif (just a joke) I've been obsessed with Opera a lot lately... smile.gif
dhns
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Mar 31 2008, 11:02 PM) *
a year or more ago I'd have been very interested in that letux, but I am sorry to say that its specifications seem a bit old especially at the price. I would certainly not consider it unless it were truly open, that full source was provided and most especially for the kernel drivers, and I'd even want to see some basic schematics.

I think what it lacks most is RAM. I could live without wifi if the bluetooth is 2.x high speed. GPS would be a major boost, and quite possibly cheap to add.

Will it do USB host?

Unfortunately, it is not possible to modify anything in the hardware (without raising the minimum quantity into the millions range, introducing delays and breaking the commercial feasibility completely). But you can find basic schematics here: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbu...;contentId=4676.

I think you are more looking for a platform like the Openmoko Freerunner. The OM has more RAM, GPS and WiFi, USB Host. And it is clearly more open. And will also be available in a few months.

But it is also more expensive, has no camera. No handsfree. Isn't Quadband. Is much larger. Has no pen that fits into the device. And is much more heavy.

So, I think this Letux 380 is currently the best compromise if someone needs a very small, working Linux based device which allows installation of native 3rd party applications, that can be really available (you can always ask for better specs but it doesn't help if you can't purchase it).

Isn't this interesting for new mobile application projects?

-- hns
koen
QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 06:52 PM) *
[*] based on Linux 2.4.20 (plus patches)


Seriously, WTF?
dhns
QUOTE(koen @ Apr 1 2008, 11:37 AM) *
QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 06:52 PM) *
[*] based on Linux 2.4.20 (plus patches)


Seriously, WTF?
Hi koen,
there is an old rule in professional IT: never touch a running system...

Yes, this is not the newest breed, but it is available and simply works. For users and applications developers in the user space the differences between 2.4 and 2.6 are not that large. So, why change it?

Of course, there is a lot of difference for driver developers and kernel hackers...

-- hns
speculatrix
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 1 2008, 10:49 AM) *
2.4 and 2.6


I think the issue is that if you're starting with a new device, you want to start with the latest kernel in order to take advantage of all the activity that surrounds it. Ok, sure, 2.4 is stable, mature etc, but it's also not really going anywhere. 2.6 is pretty stable, so there's no reason to not adopt it, and by not adopting it you exclude the hard-core hackers who will be testing the bleeding edge for you! Very few people, in handheld/embedded linux, are actually capable and willing to port 2.4 drivers to 2.6.
dhns
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2008, 12:10 PM) *
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 1 2008, 10:49 AM) *
2.4 and 2.6


I think the issue is that if you're starting with a new device, you want to start with the latest kernel in order to take advantage of all the activity that surrounds it. Ok, sure, 2.4 is stable, mature etc, but it's also not really going anywhere. 2.6 is pretty stable, so there's no reason to not adopt it, and by not adopting it you exclude the hard-core hackers who will be testing the bleeding edge for you! Very few people, in handheld/embedded linux, are actually capable and willing to port 2.4 drivers to 2.6.

Let's say it that way: it is a new hardware design based on a mature chipset and software. So, there is no need to do more testing. There is also no need to invest time or money or both into switching to 2.6. If we look how stable Openmoko is, it would be a long way to go until it would be end-user ready again.

Surely, it is therefore not a device for hard-core kernel hackers. For them, an Openmoko will suit better. But how many kernel hackers are there compared to application developers and end-users? 1% or less?

-- hns
speculatrix
the kernel, AIUI, in openmoko is pretty stable. all I'm suggesting is that if you make a platform that the hard-core hackers will enjoy, then the medium-core hackers will follow, and give you a good community.

if you simple want an appliance that is used pretty much as-shipped from the factory without too much new leading-edge stuff happening, then you can stick with legacy but tried/tested stuff.

take a look at the zaurus scene, and contrast what is happening with angstrom+debian, pdaXrom and cacko. the latter is basically now an appliance, hardly anything new. angstrom+debian have a lot of interest and new stuff.
dhns
QUOTE(dhns @ Mar 31 2008, 07:52 PM) *
  • busybox is a little spartanic
More tests have shown that we can simply copy the busybox binary (!) from the Zaurus to the Letux 380, and add symbolic links for he additional commands. Some new commands that become available: df, more, basename, dirname, head, tail, which

I have not yet done real speed tests but it "feels" faster than a Zaurus.

-- hns
dhns
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2008, 12:45 PM) *
if you simple want an appliance that is used pretty much as-shipped from the factory without too much new leading-edge stuff happening, then you can stick with legacy but tried/tested stuff.
It depends on what users need.

Question to users: What do you prefer a tried/tested device or leading-edge?

-- hns
LinuxGadget
Sorry dhns, i really appreciate your efforts around this little phone, but i would definitely like something with kernel 2.6.++!
Honestly, i would like a tested and stable device with a rather recent kernel and enough ram (>=128MB). wink.gif

QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 3 2008, 06:52 AM) *
Question to users: What do you prefer a tried/tested device or leading-edge?

-- hns

dhns
QUOTE(LinuxGadget @ Apr 3 2008, 06:58 PM) *
Sorry dhns, i really appreciate your efforts around this little phone, but i would definitely like something with kernel 2.6.++!
Honestly, i would like a tested and stable device with a rather recent kernel and enough ram (>=128MB). wink.gif

QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 3 2008, 06:52 AM) *
Question to users: What do you prefer a tried/tested device or leading-edge?

-- hns

Looks like squaring the circle: most recent kernel plus tested and stable smile.gif

I think you have the choice to wait for the Neo Freerunner End-User release. My gut feeling is that it becomes stable enough in Summer or Fall 2008 (but that is my personal opinion).

Just for curiosity: what do you expect to be better in a 2.6 kernel than 2.4? What would be missing in 2.4?

-- hns
koen
Missing in 2.4:

* decent powermanagement
* decent soundsystem
* EABI
* VFP support
* sane scheduler
* dyntick
* SDIO support
* Preemption
* Highres timers
* 4 years of bugfixes

etc, etc
HoloVector
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 2 2008, 11:52 PM) *
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 1 2008, 12:45 PM) *
if you simple want an appliance that is used pretty much as-shipped from the factory without too much new leading-edge stuff happening, then you can stick with legacy but tried/tested stuff.
It depends on what users need.

Question to users: What do you prefer a tried/tested device or leading-edge?

-- hns

Well, I used to fall into the leading edge category but, these days I just don't have the time to spend there so, I have been buying and using tried and tested devices.
speculatrix
OK, one final reason to use kernel >= 2.6.23 ?
android! so, just provide the base system and the software will come to you.

quoting from the elinux page, you need...
* SoC with ARM926 or higher (e.g. ARM11) (check ARM MPCore or ARM Cortex regarding TLS issue)
** Note: ARM920T with ARMv4 instruction set will not work
* You have already a recent (~2.6.23) Linux kernel with Thumb & MMU & EABI etc support running on your target
* Soc/HW has and Linux kernel supports
* Display/frame buffer (touchscreen would be good but optional). Frame buffer has to support double buffer/page flipping.
* Keyboard
* USB (optional)
* RTC (optional?)
* Serial console
* Some storage, sufficient for ~64MB, e.g. NFS or USB stick or NAND or NOR or MMC/SDcard etc. NFS would be easiest for development
* Sufficient main memory (SDRAM) >=32MB. While 32MB seems to be enough to start, system will be really slow then. Therefore 32MB is sufficient for proof of concept, but not for a usable system.
dhns
Generally, I see the benefits of a 2.6.x kernel, but let me compare a "Dreamliner" vs. a "737".

While the first will have the latest technology, more distance etc., the latter is robust and mature and simply works for the masses.

And, they are used for different purposes. Would anyone expect that the 737 is upgraded to the engines of a "Dreamliner" for intercontinental flights? Probably not. The 737 is a system where all components are adjusted homogenously to each other.

Coming back to the Letux 380 device. It is more like a "737", small, useable, mature. The 2.4 kernel simply works. So, why change a running system? Who would spend money for doing that? Or do it just for fun? Sadly, the current economical situation permits less and less volunteers to work on it.

So, opening Linux devices is like squaring the circle. There are basically three different approaches:

1. retrofit Linux on a Win device: the handhelds.org (OpenEZX, Xanadux, ...) approach (needs volunteers who need years to analyse the device beyond their market availability)
2. develop an open Linux hardware from scratch: the Openmoko approach (needs a lot of funding and is commercially questionable)
3. find a manufacturer who already has a working Linux device and discuss to open it: the Letux 380 approach (we can't change anything in hardware)

As you can see none of these approaches is "optimal".

-- hns
koen
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 07:02 AM) *
The 2.4 kernel simply works. So, why change a running system?


Because right now your system runs much slower and consumes much more power than with a kernel that isn't from 2002.
dhns
QUOTE(koen @ Apr 9 2008, 09:40 AM) *
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 07:02 AM) *
The 2.4 kernel simply works. So, why change a running system?


Because right now your system runs much slower and consumes much more power than with a kernel that isn't from 2002.

Assuming that a 2002 kernel needs more power is a pure myth. This device gets up to 240min talk time and 200h standby from a 1020mAh battery. How much could a 2.6 kernel improve on that?

And, where can you really buy a 2.6 kernel device today (i.e. April 2008) that is mature and user-ready?

I would be happy to offer a newer kernel - but nobody could tell me so far how to get that without any effort or paying a lot of money towards the manufacturer. Anyway that would make the device more expensive. It would be like asking Boeing to improve the 737 with a better engine from the Dreamliner. That takes years and millions.

It is not an objection against any 2.6 kernel - it is simply that we can get a working 2.4 kernel based device now or have someone to build a 2.6 kernel in some unknown future. But, I doubt that the improvements are that important that a 2.4 kernel is not good enough for the majority of applications.

-- hns

PS: the last official patch to the 2.4.36.2 kernel series dates from 24 Feb 2008.
daniel3000
Yes, that's the old discussion...
I definitely fall into the category prefering mature software over new software.
dhns put it correctly in my opinion:
Having a mature kernel eliminates the need for long periods of testing, and as we saw with the Zaurus project: Once the basic system finally is quite stable and feature-rich enough to make the device really useful, the manufacturer stops making the device.

So I really like the approach of this phone here.

OTOH, a smartphone without a QWERTY keyboard is not really useful for me.
I have one now, a T-Mobile SDA running Windows Mobile.
It replaces the zaurus now in some aspects, but it is a pain.
Text can only be entered using the phone numeric keyboard and using T9.
Text entry via touchscreen, as this new phone features, makes it a bit easier, but this would not be enough for real work for me.
I need to maintain databases, enter a lot of text (writing notes / diaries / web pages / papers...) and all this should be as compatible as possible to my Windows PC at work an my mac at home.
I admit this is not an easy profile to meet with a Linux smartphone. ;-)

But, as someone else said, I only need Linux on a phone if I can really make use of the flexibility, i.e. if this is my always-with-me mini PC. If I only use it as a phone, and carry a seperate "Mini-PC" with me, I don't need Linux on that phone.

Well, my 2 cents. As always, YMMV.

Nonetheless, a very interesting phone which could be einteresting for special projects and for some (!) private users.

In order to sell 1000 of then, though, I think you will need to find a larger company using this phone for a project.

Or maybe, with good advertising, this can be made a new standard phone for companies with field staff, which must communicate with each other a lot and sync with intranet servers etc...
Like the comany I work for.
Having different systems when sitting at the customer's plant makes it difficult for us to share information and PIMs.

If we all had one kind of flexible phone, which is able to sync with the Intranet server (Lotus Domino / Notes), and which allows to enter information easily and quickly (keyboard...) etc., then we all would be much happier.
Maybe we should discuss that offline ;-)

daniel

speculatrix
2.6 is a proven kernel for an embedded mass-market device - ask tomtom. in fact, you can benefit from their work, as they publish their stuff.
dhns
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Apr 9 2008, 12:22 PM) *
2.6 is a proven kernel for an embedded mass-market device - ask tomtom. in fact, you can benefit from their work, as they publish their stuff.

Yes, 2.6 is proven. But not for this given hardware. Not even available (who has the ported the drivers?).
No, we can't benefit from their work because we simply can't spend time/money to switch the kernel.

Let's ask in a different way: how much would you pay more if this device would have a 2.6 kernel? 1 EUR, 10 EUR, 100 EUR?
How long would you be willing to wait? 1 week, 1 month, 1 year?

-- hns
dhns
QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Apr 9 2008, 11:55 AM) *
and all this should be as compatible as possible to my Windows PC at work an my mac at home.
It uses the Qtopia Desktop allication which should IMHO run on Windows (I have Mac only).

-- hns
speculatrix
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 12:03 PM) *
Let's ask in a different way: how much would you pay more if this device would have a 2.6 kernel? 1 EUR, 10 EUR, 100 EUR?
How long would you be willing to wait? 1 week, 1 month, 1 year?


I would consider a "bounty" to get a 2.6 kernel up and running to be worth about 50 euro to me in terms of the device's longevity/usefulness, and of course would expect in return the code to be fully open and also some proper hardware details so I could fix drivers (or find someone who could), and the vendor to support their drivers properly (i.e. not just hack something together and throw it out the door).
koen
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 09:11 AM) *
PS: the last official patch to the 2.4.36.2 kernel series dates from 24 Feb 2008.


And notice that is has absolutely no support for ARM based cpus or devices. In fact, no 2.4 kernel has ARM support.
dhns
QUOTE(koen @ Apr 9 2008, 05:58 PM) *
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 09:11 AM) *
PS: the last official patch to the 2.4.36.2 kernel series dates from 24 Feb 2008.


And notice that is has absolutely no support for ARM based cpus or devices. In fact, no 2.4 kernel has ARM support.

Eh? unsure.gif How does it come that 2.4 is running on millions of ARM systems including the Sharp Zaurus?

Maybe, the 2.4 kernel does not need any more daily support because it is simply mature enough to work? wink.gif

-- hns
Ragnorok
QUOTE(daniel3000 @ Apr 9 2008, 09:55 AM) *
Yes, that's the old discussion...
I definitely fall into the category prefering mature software over new software.
- This is why I still run Cacko despite zero development in years. I keep trying the new software and keep finding it's too unstable for my personal taste. I do keep trying, though. (grin)
QUOTE
OTOH, a smartphone without a QWERTY keyboard is not really useful for me.
- I wouldn't give a dollar for a smart phone without a dedicated thumbboard at the very least, regardless of any other consideration. It could be a 2GHz device with a gig of RAM, Wifi, Bluetooth, 4G, and have a lifetime free service plan. If I can't type on it, it will never replace the Zaurus. If I have to carry Hiro around all I need is what I have now ... a simple "dumb" phone.
- But this is obviously only me, given what's out there now. I just don't understand how people can use them! (chuckle) That's my half nyble...
koen
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 05:17 PM) *
QUOTE(koen @ Apr 9 2008, 05:58 PM) *
QUOTE(dhns @ Apr 9 2008, 09:11 AM) *
PS: the last official patch to the 2.4.36.2 kernel series dates from 24 Feb 2008.


And notice that is has absolutely no support for ARM based cpus or devices. In fact, no 2.4 kernel has ARM support.

Eh? unsure.gif How does it come that 2.4 is running on millions of ARM systems including the Sharp Zaurus?


unmaintained 3rd party patches, like the -rmk and -pxa ones.
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