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mspencer
I have a 14 month old SL-C700 with hardware problems. Tonight I'm going over to my Japanese teacher's house, and together we're going to call Sharp Japan tech support and try to get help. She warned me that Japanese are typically very regimented, so I may have problems getting detailed technical information from line-level support staff. I'd like to pose my question to the group here also:

First: I've flashed replacement OS images and erased and reloaded dozens of times. This is not a simple newbie issue. :)

I know I have bad "NAND" flash in my C700. I may or may not have other hardware problems. I'm trying to determine whether it would be a waste of time to hire an experienced electronics technician to replace the flash chips in my C700, or if I should instead just send the C700 to Japan.

I'll first describe what my C700 is doing now, and then will describe the symptoms I saw before the C700 failed completely.

Currently the C700 can get into the D+M menu, but only intermittently. (I've been in this menu dozens of times, so this is not a user training issue.) Usually if I press and hold D+M and toggle the battery lock, the flashing email light stops its flashing temporarily, and then starts again. I've been unable to get into the D+M menu for the past two days -- except for today, when I tried and it worked.

I have a SYSTC700.DBK file on a write-protected SD card. When I use the D+M menu's "NAND Flash Restore" option, the restore process runs for a few seconds (maybe 10 to 15 lines worth of green bar) and then says:

CODE
NAND Restore from SD

file:SYSTC700.DBK

Execute restore?

Delete all flash data?

Restore...failed

format error


If I go into EXTRA MENU, then Zaurus Test, then NAND Flash (Full), this test runs a destructive write-read test of my flash and tells me I have 2001 bad flash blocks:

CODE
NAND Flash (Full)



checking ecc... OK.

writing all 1...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

verifying 1...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

writing all 2...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

verifying 2...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

checking number...OK.

success.


Also, interestingly, as it tests flash it counts forward in 2^20 increments, starting from 100000 and counting upward toward 4000000. Between ranges c00000 and 2900000 it counts very quickly, as if each block is failing completely and the test is being aborted on each block in that range.

So that's where I'm at right now. The problem seemed to start Tuesday before last (March 30). Here's what I observed back then: (quoted from my April 2 post at externe.net's older C700 forum)

QUOTE
I think I have a specific kind of hardware failure, but I'm not sure what's wrong. I probably can't fix it on my own, but I'd like to understand the problem. This isn't really flashing-related: I've been running the same Sukoshi rom for several weeks. I'm noticing three kinds of failures:

first failure type: the machine will occasionally lock up, hard. The clock stops, the battery meter stops playing its 'plugged into power' animation, and no key presses, card inserts and removals, or other inputs will make it react. I can toggle the battery lock switch and it'll restart.

second failure type: sometimes after toggling the battery lock switch, the email light will flash, as if to say it can't boot. Sometimes if I just toggle the switch again it'll boot normally; sometimes I have to toggle the switch several times; or sometimes I have to take the battery completely out and leave it without power for several minutes before trying again. It's running again right now though.

third failure type: occasionally I'll have programs refuse to start, or crash in the middle of running. Qtopia will restart sometimes. I've had some odd filesystem corruption also, and the system has been unable to find important executables (like cardctl).

After I started seeing that third type of failure, I backed everything up and flashed the latest Cacko QT ROM. This ROM has one important difference: when Qtopia starts I get a "wait 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" screen that gives me a chance to bail out of Qtopia and get a console-only command prompt. When I do that after Qtopia crashes and restarts, I see the following in my system log (dmesg command):

sharp_sl_nand_read_ecc: Failed ECC read, page 0x00003a5b
sharp_sl_nand_read_ecc: Failed ECC read, page 0x00003a5b
mtd->read(0x44 bytes from 0x4b7a4) returned ECC error
Node CRC 1c614139 != calculated CRC 51a10890 for node at 0004b7a4

These four lines are repeated dozens of times, filling the entire buffer printed by dmesg.

While in console-only mode, sometimes my shell will crash and I'll be back at a login screen again. After several crashes I would be able to log in, but when I tried to execute a single command I'd be back at a login prompt again. After several repeats of *that*, the login manager is unable to start correctly and starts spawning repeatedly, causing init to shut it down for 5 minutes.


For a while I was able to run Qtopia, and I ran the 'badblocks' program to look for bad Flash blocks. Strangely enough, I didn't find any:

QUOTE
OK, now this is weird:

Right now I'm sitting here running:
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock0 &
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock1 &
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock2 &
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock3 &

and it's just sitting there making the whole system unusably slow, but thrashing NAND like crazy. It's not finding *any* bad blocks. (Hopefully I'll get a chance to see the error messages when it finally finds problems.)

But it's been running this for over 30 minutes now, and hasn't found any bad blocks.

So might this mean I have some kind of intermittent problem that makes the whole flash memory subsystem flaky? Maybe it'll sit here and run fine for a while, and then suddenly be unable to read *anything*. I'm not sure.


The C700 is an amazing device -- I never realized how much I used it every day until I was without it. I'd love to get it back up and running soon, and hopefully without sending it back to Japan.

Thanks again for your help, guys! I'll post back here if I find out anything new from my call to Sharp Japan.

--Michael Spencer
mspencer
I finished my phone call with Sharp Japan tech support. I learned quite a few things:

* They really aren't expecting SL-Cxxx devices to leave Japan. "Where did your student get the device?" and "Can't they call Sharp USA?" I think we knew that though.
* When they repair and return devices, they must mail them to an address in Japan. Apparently it's a common, everyday thing there to send replaced hardware cash-on-delivery, and have the delivery person collect the repair fee before releasing the device. They will accept a package from the USA, but won't mail anything back to the USA. They also won't use an alternative shipping carrier, or accept payment over the phone.
* The best place to send the device to is:
CODE
Tokyo Technical Center

Sharp Engineering Co.

2-13-17

Higashi-Tabata

Kitaku, Tokyo, Japan

phone:  03-5692-7765

* The maximum repair fee for an SL-C700 is allegedly 10k yen, which is somewhere around $100 US. I found that to be surprisingly cheap.
* The D+M menu we know and love is considered off-limits. The support person wanted to know where I found out about that menu.
* Apparently their standard troubleshooting script for flashing email + power lights is: remove the battery and leave it for at least 3 hours. Plug it back in. If it's still flashing, send the unit in for repair.
* Take-sensei was not impressed by their unwillingness to let us talk to an engineer, or even return international phone calls, send faxes, or even emails. So Sharp Japan gets negative points for customer service.
* Then again, a customer service rep answered with no delay. Positive customer service points for having no service queue. smile.gif

It's scary that it has to come to this, but -- apparently there's more technical talent available here in this forum than in Sharp Japan's customer service department. What do you guys think about the device behavior I described in my previous post? Does it sound like I might be able to just replace the flash chips in the device and fix the problem myself? Or should I not risk it, and just spend 2 weeks and $150 and have the device repaired by Sharp Japan?

--Michael Spencer
gene
I wouldn't risk it. Having them replaced here may or may not solve the problem and will probably run you the same cash. Good things come to those who wait. Plus you will appreciate your device that much more in two weeks.
Pentad
Hi Michael,

Here is my info for working with Sharp Japan. I was having some issues with my 760 and I wanted to find out my support options with Sharp Japan since Sharp USA has no idea what is going on. I faxed over a letter to Sharp Corp asking for an email for Sharp Tech Support Japan which included my email address. This guy emailed me:

takeda.shuhhei@sharp.co.jp

With this email:



Takeda-S wrote:


Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for using a Sharp Zaurus.



Please forward your query to the following e-mail address: .

customer@cmn.hirano.sharp.co.jp



Best regards,

Takeda, Sharp-Japan

So I forwarded my request to the email Takeda sent me. I didn't hear anything for like 36 hours so I sent another to Takeda about not getting any help. I just figured it might be an English language problem.

Takeda responded right away with these to CC telling me Sharp will get back with me right away.


nishimura.masami@sharp.co.jp, icdc@sesl.global.sharp.co.jp


THen I got an email from this person:

kohzai.wataru@sharp.co.jp

with these emails CC'd:

shintaku.toshinobu@sharp.co.jp
takeda.shuhhei@sharp.co.jp

Now I would email all these folks with one email detailing your problem and asking for help. I think its amazing that Sharp Japan won't give us help. I mean I got my 760 from Japan to my house in 3 days for $35 so I know its not a shipping cost issue. I just think its poor of Sharp to not give us support when its really not that big of a deal.

</rant>

Anyway, Michael, I really feel for you and I wanted to give you all the info/email address's that I had. I hope it helps and good luck!!!

Mark
mspencer
I think I can understand why they might choose to only use that shipping method: if they take payment over the phone, whatever payment method the customer uses probably has chargeback rights for card-not-present sales. They're probably doing these repairs very close to at-cost, so they want to eliminate the risk of people charging back repair costs, claiming they didn't authorize the charge. If a delivery person is at their door, swiping a card through a machine in-person, the person can't claim they didn't authorize the sale. They also can't claim they never received the device.

It makes sense from a risk perspective, why they would work that way.

Doesn't make it any more convenient for me, though. smile.gif

(I work for a major credit card processor, so these issues make sense to me at least smile.gif )

Thanks again for your help, guys.

--Michael Spencer
Pentad
Michael,

Do we (the community) have anybody in Japan that could handle the repair for you? Example: Send it to him, he sends/gives it to Sharp, sends it back to you after its repaired. Of course you pay for all the shipping, etc... or You send to Sharp, Sharp sends to Fellow Zaurus User in Japan, he sends it back to you. Again, you pay for any shipping costs.

I know there Z fans in Japan but I didn't know if any of them are also on this forum. I think a few of them wouldn't mind helping their fellow Z users in the US.

Just a thought....
Mark
mspencer
Well, Take-sensei said she's going home to visit some family mid next month, so once I know when she'll be there I could send the Zaurus and have Sharp send it C.O.D. to her family's house. She also has an uncle in...did she say Chiba?...but she said her Uncle would probably pay for the repair and not allow anyone to pay him back, touching off some kind of gift-giving one-ups-manship as she tried to repay the favor. Japanese culture seems inscrutable that way, although still fascinating. smile.gif (and listening to that phone conversation helped me see: even after four semesters of Japanese language study, normal adult usage of the language is complex both linguistically and socially, and I really only know enough Japanese to pass quizzes and tests -- not real actual communication yet.)

I'm trying to get my old Agenda VR3 PDA working again, but it's not curbing the C700-withdrawl pains so well. Talk about bad timing, too -- I just received my MuVo2 4 GB last Monday, and have no Zaurus to use the cannibalized microdrive with. (Once I get my C700 back, I'll try to pay the community back by making digital camcorder video of the drive-extraction and Zaurus-preparation process. smile.gif )

Thanks again guys!

--Michael Spencer
Stubear
Very little is done on credit card here in Japan, the delivery people never take credit cards - it's cash or nothing in my experience. People here often send cash in specially marked envelopes or use postal savings deposits or pay in a convenience store.

Plastic is just not that popular - maybe different in Tokyo but in Osaka 24 ATMs are a new thing!

I'm available as a transit point if need be - as long as the number of returns doesn't make it a full time job wink.gif
mspencer
I went ahead and sent my device to Dynamism. According to them, Sharp Japan charged the equivalent of $360 USD for the repair. It's being shipped back to me for $400 (including shipping).

Ouch. It'll be good to have the C700 back, though.

--Michael Spencer
vishnja
Ouch! That is much more than we expected, right? Didn't Sharp say "not more than 100$" before?
I hope your Z will be back soon so you can get an opportunity to play around withe the MuVo drive :-)

I think, we all learned a lot from your experience,
Kathrin
kitsnews
mspencer,

I got the same as yours. I also find bad block in "Zaurus Test"->"Nand Flash (Full)". I would like to know is that mean my Z is unrecoverable anymore. I can't restore aymore flash now.

Could you give me some advice?

Thanks in advance
padishah_emperor
QUOTE
I went ahead and sent my device to Dynamism. According to them, Sharp Japan charged the equivalent of $360 USD for the repair. It's being shipped back to me for $400 (including shipping).

Ouch. It'll be good to have the C700 back, though.

--Michael Spencer


aw! You do know that conics do reconditioned C700s for $399?

I think I'm going to start putting money aside each month just incase I ever have an unexpected Z emergency.
mspencer
QUOTE
mspencer,

I got the same as yours. I also find bad block in "Zaurus Test"->"Nand Flash (Full)". I would like to know is that mean my Z is unrecoverable anymore. I can't restore aymore flash now.

Could you give me some advice?

Thanks in advance


You might consider trying to erase flash, and then run the bad blocks test again. Other than that, yeah, I'd say you should send it in. I'm no expert on the subject though.

--Michael Spencer
kitsnews
QUOTE
You might consider trying to erase flash, and then run the bad blocks test again.  Other than that, yeah, I'd say you should send it in.  I'm no expert on the subject though.

--Michael Spencer


Thanks for your advise. I think no one want to be the expert of this subject!!!!

By the way, could you tell me how to erase the flash? I can't find it in DM mode or even extra of DM.

Thanks in advance.
DrWowe
If you're careful, you could try erasing the flash using Linux. It could be a little complicated unless you're a Linux guru, but the basic idea would be to boot from the special ROM Linux (or alternately setup a ramdisk setup with the essential utilities), unmount all the flash filesystems, and run the flash_erase utility, which you can get in the mtdtools package I uploaded here recently. Then go back and restore the flash.

p.s. I make no guarentees this is really a good idea. smile.gif
Zuber
You did all this, and you did not ask them when the new version would be coming out and what the specs would be ?

How could you ? wink.gif
kitsnews
QUOTE
If you're careful, you could try erasing the flash using Linux.  It could be a little complicated unless you're a Linux guru, but the basic idea would be to boot from the special ROM Linux (or alternately setup a ramdisk setup with the essential utilities), unmount all the flash filesystems, and run the flash_erase utility, which you can get in the mtdtools package I uploaded here recently.  Then go back and restore the flash.

p.s.  I make no guarentees this is really a good idea.  :)


Dear DrWowe,

GREAT!!! you guide me to explore another world of zaurus. I have searched in-depth working detail of zaurus for long. But I can't find any.

By the word mtdtools, I find this.
http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...iewtopic&t=3986

Thanks a lot.

Actually, I am a so-called system engineer in linux/bsd field. But I don't know the working of zaurus at all.

Thanks a again.
jchung
Hi all,

I just recently bought a c760 from ebay with the same problem as the original poster.

The guy I bought the unit from couldnt get the c760 NAND to flash... any suggestions on what I should do?

the strange thing was he was able to flash the unit using a c860.dbk. I was able to access the OK + power menu but when I try to reset the device or flash a new ROM the screen just goes blank.

If i go into D + M menu it's white (c760) but if I go into P + D menu it's red (c860)

I tried reflashing using a c760 NAND but it gives me the error
Stubear
QUOTE(jchung @ Aug 12 2004, 11:42 AM)
Hi all,

I just recently bought a c760 from ebay with the same problem as the original poster.

The guy I bought the unit from couldnt get the c760 NAND to flash... any suggestions on what I should do?

the strange thing was he was able to flash the unit using a c860.dbk. I was able to access the OK + power menu but when I try to reset the device or flash a new ROM the screen just goes blank.

If i go into D + M menu it's white (c760) but if I go into P + D menu it's red (c860)

I tried reflashing using a c760 NAND but it gives me the error

Because the unit was flashed with a C860 NAND it now thinks it is a C860, you will have to rename the C760 NAND to make the Z think it is a C860 NAND - change the "7" in the name to an "8" before you copy the NAND across.

That should do it (did for me anyway)

Stu
jchung
QUOTE(Stubear @ Aug 12 2004, 06:41 PM)
QUOTE(jchung @ Aug 12 2004, 11:42 AM)
Hi all,

I just recently bought a c760 from ebay with the same problem as the original poster.

The guy I bought the unit from couldnt get the c760 NAND to flash... any suggestions on what I should do?

the strange thing was he was able to flash the unit using a c860.dbk. I was able to access the OK + power menu but when I try to reset the device or flash a new ROM the screen just goes blank.

If i go into D + M menu it's white (c760) but if I go into P + D menu it's red (c860)

I tried reflashing using a c760 NAND but it gives me the error

Because the unit was flashed with a C860 NAND it now thinks it is a C860, you will have to rename the C760 NAND to make the Z think it is a C860 NAND - change the "7" in the name to an "8" before you copy the NAND across.

That should do it (did for me anyway)

Stu

yeah I did do that, but it's still having problems.. So most likey the unit can only be used for spare parts..

These are the errors I get when trying to do stuff in teh D + M menu

NAND Flash (sum): "Can not read sum area"

(in extra menu) NAND Bad Count: "ERROR! cannot initial. code=(-2)"


in the P + D menu:

NAND Bad Count+Sum: "ERROR! cannot initial. code=(-2)"

NAND Flash Erase: "ERROR! cannot initial. code=(-2)"


what's strange was I was able to do bad count checks and usually it would come back with a few bad blocks.. and sometimes it would give me like 7000 something bad blocks..

blink.gif

I think there's no hope for this c760. maybe if someone would be kind enough to receive the zaurus after I send it to Sharp Japan for repair..
mspencer
My C700, which I just got back from Japan a few months ago, is having the same problem again. I had programs lock up intermittently, and now it won't boot. Same flashing lights.

It's not going back to Japan again -- I'll buy a C3000 from conics.net first. But maybe I can salvage this device.

--Michael Spencer
speculatrix
QUOTE(mspencer @ Dec 4 2004, 07:48 PM)
My C700, which I just got back from Japan a few months ago, is having the same problem again.  I had programs lock up intermittently, and now it won't boot.  Same flashing lights.

It's not going back to Japan again -- I'll buy a C3000 from conics.net first.  But maybe I can salvage this device.

--Michael Spencer
*


In my experience, from years gone by when I did embedded microprocessor systems, when you get a memory problem it isn't just the memory:
* bad memory cells in the device (individual memory locations faulty - stuck bits)
* bad memory interface in the memory device (whole row or column faulty, e.g. 256 bits stuck, or, always bit 0 of every location)
* a failed address or data bus driver on the CPU causing it to wrongly address chunks of memory (manifests same as bad memory interface in memory device)
* a PCB fault on the address or data bus (manifests same as bus driver and memory interface) - either a short to a neighbouring "wire" or a crack in the PCB causing open circuit.
* a bad connector or dry joint causing bus problem

Bad memory cells, bad memory or bus interfaces are usually permanent. PCB faults are more likely to be intermittent, and can go away depending on vibration/shock and/or temperature.

SOMETIMES you can get lucky and find that simply opening the device and unplugging/replugging cables can cure a variety of problems. If you're desperate, resoldering dodgy-looking joints can fix things, but might also ruin it.

This advice was free, and my liability is equal to the price you paid for it :-)
Zumi
I got exactly the same problem that was described in the opening post.
So, my Zaurus is dead. sad.gif

Anybody found out anything about the repair, except from sending back to Sharp Japan?

...but I've got an idea unsure.gif
I'm still able to go in the menu where I start the reflashing process (Power+OK) and the reflashing process starts (I try it with pdaXrom). It stops with some error, it can't decide what is my Zaurus (C700, 750, etc.) version, this must be because of the corrupted NAND flash.

But... is it possible to alter a setup script in a way that it doesn't setup anything but boots up a system entirely from the SD or CF card, not using the NAND?
Zumi
Hello! Good news! biggrin.gif
For all the Z owners with this problem, there's hope!
I managed to revive my Zaurus. I don't know _exactly_ what did it, because I wandered a lot in the Service menu.

I write here the process of my restore. (which I think lead to success)

- The objective is to clean up the NAND.
You have to get into the service menu for this:
  1. Open the battery cover
  2. Take out the battery for about 5 seconds
  3. Put it back
  4. Hold down the D+M keys on the keyboard
  5. Close the battery cover while holding the keys
  6. You will find yourself in the service menu
  7. Get in the 3rd page (with the "up" arrow)
  8. Choose "7.EXTRA MENU"
  9. Choose "1.Zaurus Test"
  10. Get to the 2nd page and select "10.NAND Flash Full Erase"
  11. This is the tricky part. If this doesn't work for you (gives an error message) then I don't know... There are other NAND Erase options in the Service menu, try all (at least I tried every one I saw). If it doesn't help, try them again (especially this NAND Flash Full Erase). I tried it a good couple of times before it worked. If you can put your NAND in a good shape, you won.
  12. If you managed to do it, then you won't see error messages in the different parts of the service menu.
Your Zaurus is most likely in a better, but still bad shape now, so you need to recover it.
- The C+D recover:
  1. Get the recovery package from here: http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/
  2. Read the included README. Read it again. You really want to do it? If you got this far, I think you do.
  3. Copy the files on a CF card and put the CF in the Zaurus
  4. Use your AC adapter in the process and make sure your battery is not low
  5. Open the battery cover and take out the battery for about 5 seconds
  6. Put it back
  7. Hold down the C+D keys on the keyboard
  8. Close the battery cover while holding the keys
  9. The mail and charge leds will continously light and will turn off after 30secs-2mins
Time for a NAND Restore!
The NAND backup file that has everything on your NAND flash. You can download original NAND files for different Z versions from here:
http://downloads.conics.net/pda/zaurus-sl-...iginal-backups/
Use only the same version as your Zaurus!
  1. Put it on a CF card (make sure it is formated FAT16!)
  2. Get into the Service menu again, make sure you are using AC adapter.
  3. Go to the 3rd page in the service menu and select "10.NAND Flash Restore"
  4. If the Z doesn't find the NAND image, although it is there, try reformat it. If that doesn't help, try to get a different CF card.
  5. If the restore process fails ("format error" with red letters) then the NAND flash is still not OK, go back to the previous steps
  6. If the green line reach the right side of the screen and it says OK, then your Zaurus is living again!
You can now flash your favourite ROM on your revived Z! smile.gif
This tale was about a SL-C700, I read somewhere that you can use SD card for NAND Restore with greater versions.

I hope you will have luck with this too!
Zumi smile.gif
Zumi
So, the bad news... sad.gif

The repair is only temporary. It starts degrading very fast. I was able to put on it a distribution two times but it freezed and beginned the usually partition error stuff. sad.gif
So, this seems to be a real hardware problem, not only a software one. Any ideas how to repair it? Or how to run some NAND flash independent distribution on it?

Zumi, with a bricked Z sad.gif
jasonakay
QUOTE(Zumi @ May 8 2005, 08:32 AM)
So, the bad news... sad.gif

The repair is only temporary. It starts degrading very fast. I was able to put on it a distribution two times but it freezed and beginned the usually partition error stuff. sad.gif
So, this seems to be a real hardware problem, not only a software one. Any ideas how to repair it? Or how to run some NAND flash independent distribution on it?

Zumi, with a bricked Z sad.gif
*



Great. My C760 crashed on me yesterday. sad.gif It also has bad NAND flash! I suspect I could purchase a new C1000 for what it will cost me to send the C760 to Japan for repair. Are there any other options?

Jason (also with a bricked Z). dry.gif
Stubear
QUOTE(jasonakay @ Jun 1 2005, 05:09 PM)
Great.  My C760 crashed on me yesterday.  sad.gif  It also has bad NAND flash!  I suspect I could purchase a new C1000 for what it will cost me to send the C760 to Japan for repair.  Are there any other options?

Jason (also with a bricked Z).  dry.gif
*


Bad NAND flashes are more often the result of CF or SD card problems than NAND erros in my experience.

Try reformating for CF or SD card before copying the NAND file over and try again - it helps of you haven't turned the Z off after the Bad flash, just pop the CF card, reformat, copy nand file, and reflash.

Happened to me about 6 or 7 times so far, I guess the CF gets too fragmented after a while.

Stu
jasonakay
QUOTE(Stubear @ Jun 1 2005, 03:32 PM)
Bad NAND flashes are more often the result of CF or SD card problems than NAND erros in my experience.

Try reformating for CF or SD card before copying the NAND file over and try again - it helps of you haven't turned the Z off after the Bad flash, just pop the CF card, reformat, copy nand file, and reflash.

Happened to me about 6 or 7 times so far, I guess the CF gets too fragmented after a while.

Stu
*


Well, I've done a full erasure of the NAND and I still get two bad blocks (#1 and #3) out of eight. That's before or after I do the recovery and NAND restore.

Jason.
jasonakay
QUOTE(Zumi @ May 6 2005, 05:19 PM)
9. The mail and charge leds will continously light and will turn off after 30secs-2mins


The first time I tried the recovery, this worked as you described. I was able to perform a NAND restore as well, but I couldn't install a ROM. I am running through the whole process again -- full NAND erase; recovery; NAND restore. This time, while doing the recovery, the mail and charge lights have been lit for over 10 minutes and are still! ph34r.gif Any idea why this would happen?

Thanks,

Jason.
jasonakay
Well, now it's really toast! All 8 blocks are bad. When I try to use the service menu to erase the NAND all I get are errors. I think this one is done. I can't really afford to send it back to Japan for repair. Can someone recommend where in Canada or the USA I might find someone who can solder a new NAND chip (and remove the old one) for me? For that matter, where would one find a compatible NAND chip?

Or should I just sell my Z for parts?!

Thanks,

Jason.
C760 (not doing so well...)
badog
"Get the recovery package from here: http://pocketworkstation.org/files/recover/
Read the included README. Read it again. You really want to do it? If you got this far, I think you do.
Copy the files on a CF card and put the CF in the Zaurus
Use your AC adapter in the process and make sure your battery is not low
Open the battery cover and take out the battery for about 5 seconds
Put it back
Hold down the C+D keys on the keyboard
Close the battery cover while holding the keys
The mail and charge leds will continously light and will turn off after 30secs-2mins
"
_____________________________________________________________
i can't download recover from pocketworkstation.org
where has same files?
thanks

___________________
the_ph1lth
I expect the result on how to repair Z's with bad nand blocks -and flashing mail lights - is still that they're bricked?
Just lost the second C700 to this, fortunately the first one could be bounced back to conics. Don't think I had this last one much more than 12 months (sniff old pal)
I think its how most Z's die....

The recovery package is great if you've just had a bad NAND flash but doesn't get over hardware failures. So if you've been messing with flashes and get an error its probably recoverable. Maybe not if it just breaks one day and shows up nand errors etc in the D+M tests.

Now has anyone got any info or actually tried replacing the nand chip?

Guess they're BGA and remember a Japanese site looking at hardware?
propofol
I have just recently purchased a brand new C3100 from Conics. I installed the 1.23 version of Cacko however a range of error messages is reported during the bootup including:

carmfs: wrong magic
FAT: bogus logical sector 381
several inode errors
pxa_sda_wait_id_response error (repeated about 30 times)

I reinstalled Cacko several times. I repartioned the root flash to 37Mb since it seemed that the recommended 32Mb was not large enough. (The root took up 36644K according to the "df" command. )

I finally used the "D & M" service menu and did a full flash check, this reported 1 badblock. I assume at least some of the error are due to a defective root file system.

Has anyone with a C3100 & Cacko had similar error messages or is my problems just due to a hardware problem?

My old second hand C860 had 3 badblocks. Is this a common problem with zaurus flash memory?

Regards,
Stefan
drnick
QUOTE(propofol @ Dec 7 2005, 11:36 PM)
carmfs: wrong magic
FAT: bogus logical sector 381
several inode errors
pxa_sda_wait_id_response error (repeated about 30 times)


Cacko 1.23b1 on my C3k gives the same errors. I have maybe 3 inode errors. Nothing to worry about. The pxa_sba_wait_id has to do with the SD card being inserted on boot. Take the SD out on boot and you shouldnt see these. It has something to do with sharp's buggy SD implimentation.
GadgetGuy
QUOTE(propofol @ Dec 7 2005, 06:36 PM)
I have just recently purchased a brand new C3100 from Conics. I installed the 1.23 version of Cacko however a range of error messages is reported during the bootup including:

carmfs: wrong magic
FAT: bogus logical sector 381
several inode errors
pxa_sda_wait_id_response error (repeated about 30 times)

I reinstalled Cacko several times. I repartioned the root flash to 37Mb since it seemed that the recommended 32Mb was not large enough. (The root took up 36644K according to the "df" command. )

I finally used the "D & M" service menu and did a full flash check, this reported 1 badblock. I assume at least some of the error are due to a defective root file system.

Has anyone with a C3100 & Cacko had similar error messages or is my problems just due to a hardware problem?

My old second hand C860 had 3 badblocks. Is this a common problem with zaurus flash memory?

Regards,
Stefan
*



This is all totally normal. If you install lots of applications you will also have many more inode errors.

The recommended flash partitioning should work ok - if you give it more than needed, you probably waste some of your memory.

AFAIK there is nothing to worry about... ( I also was also concerned when I saw this first, but after asking a couple of questions, and after using my C3100 without any problems whatsoever - but with lots if inode and such error messages during boot - I really dont worry about this any more)
lindenle
Can you do a NAND restore from an SD card in the D+M Menu?
mspencer
I think someone earlier said only models later than the C700 can do that.
Wildherb
QUOTE(mspencer @ Apr 9 2004, 09:54 PM) *
I have a 14 month old SL-C700 with hardware problems. Tonight I'm going over to my Japanese teacher's house, and together we're going to call Sharp Japan tech support and try to get help. She warned me that Japanese are typically very regimented, so I may have problems getting detailed technical information from line-level support staff. I'd like to pose my question to the group here also:

First: I've flashed replacement OS images and erased and reloaded dozens of times. This is not a simple newbie issue. smile.gif

I know I have bad "NAND" flash in my C700. I may or may not have other hardware problems. I'm trying to determine whether it would be a waste of time to hire an experienced electronics technician to replace the flash chips in my C700, or if I should instead just send the C700 to Japan.

I'll first describe what my C700 is doing now, and then will describe the symptoms I saw before the C700 failed completely.

Currently the C700 can get into the D+M menu, but only intermittently. (I've been in this menu dozens of times, so this is not a user training issue.) Usually if I press and hold D+M and toggle the battery lock, the flashing email light stops its flashing temporarily, and then starts again. I've been unable to get into the D+M menu for the past two days -- except for today, when I tried and it worked.

I have a SYSTC700.DBK file on a write-protected SD card. When I use the D+M menu's "NAND Flash Restore" option, the restore process runs for a few seconds (maybe 10 to 15 lines worth of green bar) and then says:

CODE
NAND Restore from SD

file:SYSTC700.DBK

Execute restore?

Delete all flash data?

Restore...failed

format error


If I go into EXTRA MENU, then Zaurus Test, then NAND Flash (Full), this test runs a destructive write-read test of my flash and tells me I have 2001 bad flash blocks:

CODE
NAND Flash (Full)



checking ecc... OK.

writing all 1...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

verifying 1...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

writing all 2...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

verifying 2...

adr = 4000000

Bad Block Num = 2001

checking number...OK.

success.


Also, interestingly, as it tests flash it counts forward in 2^20 increments, starting from 100000 and counting upward toward 4000000. Between ranges c00000 and 2900000 it counts very quickly, as if each block is failing completely and the test is being aborted on each block in that range.

So that's where I'm at right now. The problem seemed to start Tuesday before last (March 30). Here's what I observed back then: (quoted from my April 2 post at externe.net's older C700 forum)

QUOTE
I think I have a specific kind of hardware failure, but I'm not sure what's wrong. I probably can't fix it on my own, but I'd like to understand the problem. This isn't really flashing-related: I've been running the same Sukoshi rom for several weeks. I'm noticing three kinds of failures:

first failure type: the machine will occasionally lock up, hard. The clock stops, the battery meter stops playing its 'plugged into power' animation, and no key presses, card inserts and removals, or other inputs will make it react. I can toggle the battery lock switch and it'll restart.

second failure type: sometimes after toggling the battery lock switch, the email light will flash, as if to say it can't boot. Sometimes if I just toggle the switch again it'll boot normally; sometimes I have to toggle the switch several times; or sometimes I have to take the battery completely out and leave it without power for several minutes before trying again. It's running again right now though.

third failure type: occasionally I'll have programs refuse to start, or crash in the middle of running. Qtopia will restart sometimes. I've had some odd filesystem corruption also, and the system has been unable to find important executables (like cardctl).

After I started seeing that third type of failure, I backed everything up and flashed the latest Cacko QT ROM. This ROM has one important difference: when Qtopia starts I get a "wait 5, 4, 3, 2, 1" screen that gives me a chance to bail out of Qtopia and get a console-only command prompt. When I do that after Qtopia crashes and restarts, I see the following in my system log (dmesg command):

sharp_sl_nand_read_ecc: Failed ECC read, page 0x00003a5b
sharp_sl_nand_read_ecc: Failed ECC read, page 0x00003a5b
mtd->read(0x44 bytes from 0x4b7a4) returned ECC error
Node CRC 1c614139 != calculated CRC 51a10890 for node at 0004b7a4

These four lines are repeated dozens of times, filling the entire buffer printed by dmesg.

While in console-only mode, sometimes my shell will crash and I'll be back at a login screen again. After several crashes I would be able to log in, but when I tried to execute a single command I'd be back at a login prompt again. After several repeats of *that*, the login manager is unable to start correctly and starts spawning repeatedly, causing init to shut it down for 5 minutes.


For a while I was able to run Qtopia, and I ran the 'badblocks' program to look for bad Flash blocks. Strangely enough, I didn't find any:

QUOTE
OK, now this is weird:

Right now I'm sitting here running:
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock0 &
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock1 &
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock2 &
badblocks -p 1000 /dev/mtdblock3 &

and it's just sitting there making the whole system unusably slow, but thrashing NAND like crazy. It's not finding *any* bad blocks. (Hopefully I'll get a chance to see the error messages when it finally finds problems.)

But it's been running this for over 30 minutes now, and hasn't found any bad blocks.

So might this mean I have some kind of intermittent problem that makes the whole flash memory subsystem flaky? Maybe it'll sit here and run fine for a while, and then suddenly be unable to read *anything*. I'm not sure.


The C700 is an amazing device -- I never realized how much I used it every day until I was without it. I'd love to get it back up and running soon, and hopefully without sending it back to Japan.

Thanks again for your help, guys! I'll post back here if I find out anything new from my call to Sharp Japan.

--Michael Spencer



Just a bump for this thread.

Having had a very healthy Cacko + Meanie's Debian XQt environment running for many happy months, I foolishly tried, and managed to "brick" my C3K while trying to install Zubuntu. No key combination would do anything, so seriously, we are talking about paperweight mode here!. Sadly, I gave up on my Z and bought an iPod touch (shame on me!)

A couple of months later I plugged it in and managed to get a D+M menu but still no D+B menu. From D+M I tried to refresh the NAND to start again but that would also fail. Then I googled and found this thread and managed to erase the NAND (which showed an error) as described here, and subsequently, the NAND restore did work. So, many thanks Zumi for your notes. Looks like I've salvaged my Z!!

As of today, my 'life' now runs from my iPod, so I've got nothing to lose by exploring a few other distros but to be honest, my feeling is that a full distro such as BSD or Debian/Ubuntu is just too much for a Z's hardware and that a long-in-the-tooth Cacko is still ore rewarding than a slow native Debian. I'd like to think that Angstrom or pdaXrom held the answer but if I'm going anywhere, it will probably be back to OZ which at least has some stable appications. Sorry devs,
speculatrix
good news you restored it, and I hope you'll stick with the Z for a while and maybe sample the delights of ubuntu and android.
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