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datajerk
QUOTE
PC DOS 7 under the old Bochs is running at "normal" speeds for me. Of course, I'm not trying any fancy stuf like sound, etc and the display is somewhat mangled with ^Ds and the like once the DOS apps run. But its early in the "game". (G)  

I think I am getting good speeds with freedos so far. From # /tmp/bochs to c:> 15 sec boot time using 2.11 with the X windows interface. The screen looks like a perfect PC screen. No strange characters. Ctrl-C locks it up however for a long time (10-15 sec). Full screen edit works realtime. If PC DOC 7 will improve this I will switch to that.
QUOTE
What I'd like to see right now, is some way to emulate ALT keys & F1 - F10 keys. I haven't gotten Keyhelper to do either one and these two are essential to a LOT of DOS apps operations.

This should be easy with xmodmap if you are running Xqt on Sharp or Cacko ROM with bochs x display.
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
ips: 750000 and freedos is now fast.  I will build an SDL version as soon as I get the zports dev tree to link to.


Great! I'll kick my BOCHSRC up to 750,000 ips then! Thanks! I felt bad reporting such dismal results for FreeDOS, since it *is* a worthy effort.

QUOTE
I need some DOS code to test.  I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.


What type DOS stuff you want? I still have tons of old shareware - freeware CDs stacked up (G).

QUOTE
Also is there a recommendation on VBE vs no-VBE?

Thanks.


No opinion from here yet. Will fuminate (er, make that RUMINATE - danged ham handed fingers) on it.

Thanks, again! Working together we all can get this sucker flying, I believe.

I'm going to *have* to make the time to get a cross compiler for the Z functional (sigh .... G)
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
This should be easy with xmodmap if you are running Xqt on Sharp or Cacko ROM with bochs x display.


Tell me more, amigo. My first C860 has to go back for repairs but when it returns, I'll have my "sacrificial" test bed back to torture any way I want without worrying about temporarily bricking it up (G).

From what I've seen so far, you gotta work REALLY hard to completely brick the C860!! Just some downtimes take longer to recover from.
datajerk
Just install Xqt (xqt.sourceforge.net) it runs on any sharp or sharp-based ROM. Start up X with a window manager (I prefer fluxbox), then run bochs with display set to x in bochsrc.

Xqt is just an X server for Qtopia.

Pic:



bochsrc:

romimage: file=BIOS-bochs-latest, address=0xf0000
megs: 1
vgaromimage: VGABIOS-lgpl-latest
floppya: 1_44=a.img, status=inserted
floppyb: 1_44=b.img, status=inserted
#diskc: file=c.img, cyl=121, heads=4, spt=17
diskc: file=c.img, cyl=306, heads=4, spt=17
#diskc: file=c.img, cyl=900, heads=15, spt=17
boot: c
#log: out.bochs
log: /dev/null
mouse: enabled=0
ips: 800000
display_library: x
pit: realtime=0

As for xmodmap, I'll have to play with it. Keyhelper is being used to set the to keys next to '-' as ctrl and alt. You should be able to set alt-1 as F1.
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
Just install Xqt (xqt.sourceforge.net) it runs on any sharp or sharp-based ROM.  Start up X with a window manager (I prefer fluxbox), then run bochs with display set to x in bochsrc.

Xqt is just an X server for Qtopia.


Hey, now THATS *very* nice! You've "talked" me into it, dj (G).

QUOTE
As for xmodmap, I'll have to play with it.  Keyhelper is being used to set the to keys next to '-' as ctrl and alt.  You should be able to set alt-1 as F1.


Yeh. KeyhelperConfig shows them as CTL & ALT and the scan code DOS util shows the CTL combos, but all the ALT key combos come out as ESC.

The 1, 2, 3 & 4 keys don't seem to work "normally" in combo even in terminal alone. I'll make a list of the exact results that I'm getting after I've had some shut eye (G). Old man's gotta get his rest in.

THANKS! I'll start on Xqt tomorrow!
Miami_Bob
OK, friends & "neighbors". Some interesting results to share. These come from Landmark's SPEED200 utility, v2.00 1990.

One of my stock HP200LXs tested out equivalent to a 4Mhz AT; CPU Clock 5.948Mhz; no FPU; CGA video at 1342.08 char/ms.

At 500,000 ips, Bochs DOS on a C860 with stock Sharp ROM v1.31, *independent* of the DOS type, the console type and the VGA BIOS image (!), tested equivalent to a 5Mhz AT; 80486 class processor; CPU Clock at 0.524Mhz (yes, thats what it said each time); 20Mhz 80287 FPU; VGA video at 995 char/ms.

FreeDOS was noticably slower in responce to key input than PC DOS 7 and Qkonsole was noticably more sluggish with each OS than when they ran under the embedded Konsole. It seems to be a key stroke buffer related delay, from what I could see.

Kicking up to 750,000 ips (THANKS, dj!), Bochs DOS became equivalent to an 8Mhz AT; 80486 class processor; CPU Clock 0.786Mhz (yes, again, thats what it said each time); 30Mhz 80287 FPU & VGA video at 1495 char/ms. Again, the figures were independent of the flavor of DOS, the terminal type, the VGA ROM image type & the perceived responciveness of the system.

Not too shabby really. But its been a long day at the lab, so I fogged out early & faded before I got too deeply into tweaking. That way lieth my "all nighter" sessions (G).
BjoKa
Hi!

Reading the whole thread, what about using (parts of) qemu or bochs to run third-party, binary-only kernel modules? Can it be done? For example the binary-only part of nokia-d211 GSM/GPRS Modem card would be interesting. (nokia ships a nokia_cs source-code which links to a binary-only lib doing the real work.)

BjoKa
P.S.: Does anybody know of a GSM/GPRS card compatible with the zaurus? Searching a day now, but didn't find any clear answer sad.gif
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
Hi!

P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!


Howdy, BjoKa. Post was just fine. Can't answer your questions myself, but I anyone CAN, this is the place that you'll find them (G).

Welcome, friend!
dh
QUOTE
P.S.: Does anybody know of a GSM/GPRS card compatible with the zaurus? Searching a day now, but didn't find any clear answer sad.gif
P.P.S.: This is my first post here, If I made something wrong, let me know!

Hi Bjoka. You would have more people see your question if you had started a new thread on it. In anycase, there is some info on GPRS scattered around the site.

I found this thread http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...&highlight=gprs which might be helpful.

When you are searching on ZUG, I've found it best to use the search link on the forum section, not the one on the front page. If you do a search on GPRS you'll find a lot of other threads to check out as well.

Welcome and good luck.
Miami_Bob
datajerk - Well, I checked the X/Qt Server Project pages. An over abundance of options & downloads there (G).

Could I possibly persuade you to give us a mini FAQ (here or in its own spin off thread) on which IPKs are needed for minimum xqt installation, some of the Tricks, Traps, Got'chas & such that you have learned from by your experiences and any other details to help us jump start the learning curve?

TIA!!
wmadan
QUOTE
datajerk - Well, I checked the X/Qt Server Project pages. An over abundance of options & downloads there (G).

Could I possibly persuade you to give us a mini FAQ (here or in its own spin off thread) on which IPKs are needed for minimum xqt installation, some of the Tricks, Traps, Got'chas & such that you have learned from by your experiences and any other details to help us jump start the learning curve?

TIA!!


Bob,

These are the instructions I followed to install X/Qt.

Download and then install the following packages in this order:
1. xqt-fonts-misc
2. xqt-server
3. glic-locale
4. xbase-etc
5. xlibs
6. xqt-startup-script
8. xbase-client

Some of them should run from SD but I installed all to internal.You'll end up with two new icons:

X/QT Server: starts the X/QT server and enables a connection to an external X-server

Start X: starts a local X-server and enabled to run X-programs.

Bill
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
Bob,

These are the instructions I followed to install X/Qt.


Thanks, Bill. I'll start downloading packages (G). The previous threads on the topic all seemed to list what packages were loaded by folks having trouble getting their systems running well rather than the IPKs used by those who DID get fully operational installations. Its appears to be a complex subject, and I'll take instruction on how to do it right the first time from whom ever has the experience under their belt to share! (G)

THANKS, again!
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
I built the latest version of bochs (2.1.1) and have it running on Xqt.


Have searched and not been able to find Bochs 2.1.1 as IPK for Z. Can you suggest where a copy might be downloaded?

THANKS!
Miami_Bob
Yo, Bill. Just to check -

Is glic-locale same as glibc-locale-eucjp or a different package?

Is xbase-client same as xbase-clientS?

Which Bochs version are you running?


TIA!!
wmadan
Bob,

Yes, glibc-locale-eucjp is correct. The "eucjp" part made me wonder at first, but it works. When you get blackbox running on x/qt, you'll see some submenus are japanese.

Also affirmative on xbase-clients. Sorry I wasn't crystal clear.

I have not tried running bochs on x/qt yet. But, I would like seeing the project progress to the point of being able to use abiword and gnumeric.

Bill
Miami_Bob
QUOTE
Yes, glibc-locale-eucjp is correct. The "eucjp" part made me wonder at first, but it works. When you get blackbox running on x/qt, you'll see some submenus are japanese.


After installing the files, the local Xserver just got to the background with the "X" and aborted if a key was pressed or the screen tapped.

I have hardcopy of the earlier threads so started trying some of the suggestions from them. Used "xinit" & checked for zombie X processes. Still no joy. But the precise error messages from command prompt seemed to be changing.

Finally resorted to one suggestion. Uninstalled glibc-locale-eucjp & xqt-fonts-misc. NOW there were two particular lines immediately before the server shut itself down.

The process could not find either rxvt or blackbox! It seems the startup config does not look for any other window managers (such as fluxbox, which I HAD installed).

Installed blackbox & everything was perfectly copacetic. I'm sure that I'll be able to hunt down where the script looks for rxvt &/or blackbox to change it to fluxbox. BUT, one of the blackbox menu options is to launch other window managers. THAT script was easy to find & I just edited in a line to launch fluxbox FROM blackbox.

Now that its running well, I'm going to add back in the two uninstalled packages to see what happens. Will report from the front later (G).

QUOTE
Also affirmative on xbase-clients. Sorry I wasn't crystal clear.


Hey, you did great. Its not easy once we start loading a lot of libs & apps to know what is already installed and critical to a later success. (G) Without your help, it would have taken me a LOT longer to figure this puppy out.

QUOTE
I have not tried running bochs on x/qt yet. But, I would like seeing the project progress to the point of being able to use abiword and gnumeric.

Bill


I'm not going to try the old Bochs & DOS under XQt because I'm not sure that it can be shut down gracefully, like dataj's later version apparently can. I'll see if I can cop an IPK of the new ver somewhere.

Anyhow, folks, if you can't get XQt to run after installing all the packages, make SURE that either rxvt or blackbox are installed. Cause you are for dog gone certain NOT gonna get it going without one or the other (or a modified startup script for another of similar nature).

THANKS, again, Bill. You reduced my learning curve tremendously! Much appreciated, amigo!
wmadan
Bob,

Great that you got it working and that I was able to help. There's nothing better than to know you've helped out. smile.gif

I, too, want to run fluxbox, but don't know how. I had it installed, but like you said, x/qt looks for blackbox. Blackbox isn't all that bad. You can adjust the style a bit from the menus.

I did get gimp going though. It's amazing to see it load up, and it's not as slow as I thought it would be.

Bill
datajerk
QUOTE
Have searched and not been able to find Bochs 2.1.1 as IPK for Z. Can you suggest where a copy might be downloaded?


http://www.sense.net/zc/bochs/

Recommended settings for your bochsrc files:

CODE
romimage: file=/usr/local/share/bochs/BIOS-bochs-latest, address=0xf0000

vgaromimage: /usr/local/share/bochs/VGABIOS-lgpl-latest

megs: 1

log: /dev/null

display_library: x


Here are the configure settings I used:

CODE
./configure

       --host=arm-linux

       --build=i686-linux

       --x-includes=/opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/X11R6/include

       --x-libraries=/opt/Embedix/tools/arm-linux/X11R6/lib

       --prefix=$HOME/zaurus/bochs/usr/local

       --enable-config-interface

       --enable-new-pit

       --enable-cpu-level=5

       --enable-icache

       --enable-mmx

       --enable-sb16=linux

       --enable-repeat-speedups

       --enable-guest2host-tlb

       --enable-all-optimizations

       --enable-vbe

       --enable-fpu

       --with-rfb

       --enable-idle-hack

       --without-sdl

       --with-x11
Miami_Bob
QUOTE(wmadan @ Jun 21 2004, 10:59 PM)
Bob,

Great that you got it working and that I was able to help. There's nothing better than to know you've helped out. smile.gif

I, too, want to run fluxbox, but don't know how. I had it installed, but like you said, x/qt looks for blackbox. Blackbox isn't all that bad. You can adjust the style a bit from the menus.

Hummm - my last post here seems to have vanished in the conversion. Ah well..

You were a great help, indeed.

I have found 2 ways to run fluxbox in xqt.

You can add it to the blackbox menu at

/opt/QtPalmtop/share/blackbox/menu

by going to the section that launches other window managers, copy the top line & edit the copy line to "fluxbox". Then launch fluxbox from blackbox.

Or by editing

/home/zaurus/.xinitrc

changing the line at the end from blackbox to fluxbox.



THANKS, dataj - you are TOPS!

Not complaining, just bug reporting -

I *have* been able to get the HP-LX CPACK software to run in the newer xqt-bochs v2.1.1 but that version of Bochs has some major bugs that I haven't been able to resolve so far.

- will not recognise HD img files, even when made fresh from bximage

- maps both the ";" & ":" Zaurus keys as ";" so it is impossible to change drives

(ie B: is seen as B;)

terminals in both blackbox & fluxbox see the keys correctly so bochs is the problem

- once the bochs VGABIOS image takes over, bochs becomes larger than the physical screen size.

- a couple others that I don't recall right off the top.

I'm going to have to put this project on hold in order to send my test bed C860 back for repair before the backlight fails entirely. No longer willing to risk putting my mission critical Z at risk of downtime (after that last scare).

But ... "Ah'll be bach!"
datajerk
QUOTE
- will not recognise HD img files, even when made fresh from bximage


I am using the freedos C: HD img without issue.

QUOTE
- maps both the ";" & ":" Zaurus keys as ";" so it is impossible to change drives


This is a problem with other applications as well. Xqt keymaps are wrong (they match standard PCs it appears, I plan to fix some day). You can remap any keys with xmodmap. Also bochs supports its own keymaps. (Read bochs docs).

QUOTE
terminals in both blackbox & fluxbox see the keys correctly so bochs is the problem


Yep. Look at bochs docs for keymaps.

QUOTE
- once the bochs VGABIOS image takes over, bochs becomes larger than the physical screen size.


VGA text mode is 720x400 resolution. VGA fonts are 8x16, however an extra pixel is added to the 8 for the space between fonts, except the special line drawing fonts. It is strange how it work. (8+1)*80 = 720.

If you run dosemu you will notice that the X VGA fonts are truely 8 pixels (7 for the char and include the space). So I need to take the X VGA font and convert to bochs format and redo some code to fix that. I am dumping the X version and working on the SDL version. With the SDL version I should have more control over the keys as well. Don't expect anytime soon.
scoutme
ehm... and what about trying to run Sensible Soccer? it's small, light and really addictive wink.gif

Anyone did it?
TonyOlsen
QUOTE
QUOTE 
I need some DOS code to test.  I will builld a PC DOS 7 image later as well.


What type DOS stuff you want? I still have tons of old shareware - freeware CDs stacked up (G).


How about my DOS application.. which is the main reason why I'm trying to get Bochs working. (I've attached the program and the e-book manual to this message.)

Thanks for all of this great information. (Sorry I haven't been here to test this stuff, but we just had a baby 2 weeks ago and I haven't had any time... hopefully I will soon)

By the way... the recent change in the ZaurusUserGroup page code really messed me up. None of the links in my notification e-mails worked and the "Last 15 posts" no longer appears...
sigmaX
This thread has been on full stop for some time ...

I am looking forward on emulating an i386 System and try to get DOS or even windows 98 over my Zaurus C860, maybe as a cool prank to the local guys, or even to awe myself wink.gif

I've seen those pictures of an SL 5500 running the win98 boot screen ... It cannot be that difficult smile.gif

Anyone got any new hint ?
nyar
I cannot imagine Bochs on a processor as slow as the Z's running any faster than say a 286 or even an aging 386, and even that'd be pushing it.

Or can people report better results?

I think this would be a novelty rather than actually usable.
SNi
Miami Bob,
If you can't get the CPACK running, are you able to run programs such as PE, MM/LX, VR, etc using palrun?
SNi
TonyOlsen
How about the DOS app I attached above? smile.gif
qx773
I would just like to comment that I was successfully able to use the mcopy command of the Windows port of the mtools program to copy files from Windows to a hard disk image file. I believe that you need to install Cygwin for the mtools program to work, because when you untar the mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar file, it creates several symbolic links to the mtools.exe program, mapping various executable file names to mtools.exe. For example, when you use the mcopy.exe program to copy the files from Windows to the c.img file, the mcopy.exe program is actually a symbolic link to the mtools.exe file. Some Unix programs like uuencode/uudecode use this technique to alter their behavior depending on the program name with which they are called. I no longer recall where I got the mtools tar file, so I have attached it to this message. You can visit http://www.cygwin.com to download the Cygwin package, which allows you to run a lot of i386 Linux programs unmodified on a Windows system without rebooting into Linux.

1. Install Cygwin on your Windows computer.
2. Start Cygwin. You will then get a Unix command line prompt.
3. While in Cygwin, execute:

tar xvf /cygdrive/c/mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar

This assumes that you have saved the mtools-3.9.6-w32.tar file on the root directory of the C: drive. Cygwin mounts your Windows drives as:

/cygdrive/c for the C: drive
/cygdrive/d for the D: drive, and so forth

You can type the

mount

command by itself to see how Cygwin has mapped your drives.

The process of extracting the files from the *.tar file creates a directory named mtools-3.9.6 which contains the mtools.exe program and the associated symbolic links. I copied all of these files to the /usr/local/bin directory, because that directory is in my PATH, to make the mtools program names executable from the command line without having to specify the full path to each program:

cd mtools-3.9.6
cp * /usr/local/bin
cd ..


Alternatively, you could add the mtools-3.9.6 directory to your PATH environment variable by adding the following line to the .bash_profile file so that the directory is in your PATH the next time that you restart Cygwin:

PATH=$PATH:$HOME/mtools-3.9.6

When you first enter Cygwin, you are in your default $HOME directory. You have to create a file in this directory named:

.mtoolsrc

Note the period in front of the file name. This file needs to contain a single line which reads:

drive c: file="/cygdrive/c/c.img" partition=1

You can create this file without using vi or any other editor with a command:

echo 'drive c: file="/cygdrive/c/c.img" partition=1' > .mtoolsrc

The single quotes indicate a literal string.

This assumes that you have the c.img file on your C: drive.

You can then use the mcopy command as though it were the MSDOS copy command to copy files from your Windows hard drive to the c.img file. For example:

mcopy /cygdrive/c/filename.txt c:

When you are done, you can exit from Cygwin with the command:

exit

You can also access the files of your Cygwin $HOME directory from Windows under:

C:\cygwin\home\Default

The text files in Cygwin are terminated with Line Feed characters instead of Carriage Return / Line Feed pairs, so Notepad will not work directly on the text files in Cygwin.

This is longer than I expected it to be. Let me know if you have any problems with the steps that I listed.

I have Master of Orion v1.3 (the MSDOS version) running under Bochs on my Windows 98 system. My ATI Radeon 9700 Pro video card apparently uses so much ROM space that an EMS swap page cannot be set up, so I cannot run Master of Orion (MOO) natively. Running it under Bochs is nice, because MOO tends to crash occasionally, and a virtual reboot of the computer in Bochs is faster than a physical reboot.
speculatrix
POSE on dosbox/qemu?

anyone gotten the Palm Emulator to run on Zaurus?
TonyOlsen
QUOTE(speculatrix @ Jan 20 2005, 04:51 PM)
POSE on dosbox/qemu?

anyone gotten the Palm Emulator to run on Zaurus?
*


Isn't that a little like having a Lamborghini emulate a VW bug? :-P :-D :-)

"Yeah... just listen to that Palm Emulator Roar when I rev' up the engine!" LOL. :-)

But in reality I do understand the need for it (A palm emulator). There are some applications that are written for the Palm that aren't yet written for the Zaurus (sadly enough), such as some e-book readers (oh I know that we have some readers that claim to read all... but I have some e-books that only work on palm. I hope someday that will change).
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