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cajunboy
Noitced today that Sony is doing what sharp did.

http://www.brighthand.com/article/sayonara_clie


Looks like consumer PDA market is drying up :shock:

Cajunboy
doseas
I'm sorry to read that. I think that Sony made some of the nicest PalmOS units.
Fromwithin
Don't forget the current state of the dollar. It makes it much more expensive to shovel stuff into the states from other countries. I'm sure it's a factor in the decision.
TonyOlsen
Are they refering to the Sony half-VGA clamshell with camera devices as well? If so, then that is yet another Clam Shell market that has disappeared. Since the HP 200LX, IBM PC-110, Toshiba Libretto, and Sony Picturebook Viao... all VGA Clamshell devices... and each lasted a few years and then disappeared. Are Zaurus Clamshells next? I bought my SL-C860 new instead of later because I feared that it may not exist later.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Zaurus will go away... but clamshells usually don't last long in the market... I have NO IDEA WHY, though. I think Clamshells are superior, so I don't understand why companies keep pulling their Clamshell devices after only a few years of service...

Any ideas?
rikiya
I don't think the SL-C series will disappear because Japan sure loves it! and so do we~!
padishah_emperor
I've been reading about that somewhere else, makes me laugh to be honest, I never trusted Sony as far as I could throw em, they treated their customers like scum and brought out so many machines so fast it really made me feel bad once I'd invested in their Clie. Needless to say I got rid of mine quickly and got my first Z. It doesn't surprise me one bit, I just pity all those people who wasted their money buying them and the people who even here on ZUG viciously defended their UX50's.

I've known for a while that this was coming, they touted the Clie as a PDA/Entertainment device, with the PSP coming, the Clie had to move aside. I also would not be too surprised if you see a PocketPC based machine or two over the next 18 months.

Tony, I know you look for any product with any kind of clamshell dying as a prophetic sign of apocalypse but I think it's irrational, products come and go regardless of shape or size, regardless of VGA divisable size screens. No product nowadays is produced for too long, no profit in it. Two years is an eternity is business. They constantly want to make newer, faster and moreover more profitable goods to sell to eager buyers with full wallets.

You WILL see Sharp pull the plug on the 6000 within a relatively short period, even the Cxxx machines, but something I think most people outside Japan just don't get is that the Zaurus has been around a very very long time, long before Linux was adopted. It's an established brand probably more so than Clie or PPC, it would not be profitable for them to end that brand just yet.

In short, the Z is a Japanese specific machine, despite the odd machines which are available for short periods globally. This will always remain so. Microsoft has a market to protect, it would crush Sharp if it needed to. So we must be content with what we have, and occasionally go through hell and back to import one for our own pleasure.

Unless the next PalmOS is really unbelievably good, that too will fade within 5 years in to history with EPOC et al. You notice 3rd parties adopting PalmOS, then after a while leaving it, I can't help wonder why. But short of establishing a multi-million dollar co-operative to guarantee the production of our beloved machines, we too are at the mercy of men in suits far far away who don't care about us, just profit and statistics. Welcome to the New World Order and globalism.
TonyOlsen
I agree with all that you wrote.
Omicron
Wait a second, in the new world order, I thought I was supposed to be supreme rular or the Earth !?!

Darn it !

(Well, at least my icon looks cool.....stock as it may be).
padishah_emperor
No, I'm supposed to be the the 81st Padishah Emperor, Ruler of the Known Universe based at my Imperial Palace on Kaitain. It's a dream I have. ;-) I have pretentions to be a living God Emperor, but I'd need 4000 years to mutate a bit...

(I'd give you the Earth as a trophy)
elvis
A clamshell PDA is clumsy to handle on the go. I've tried one of the Sony Clie ones and I disliked it.

If the SL-6000 dries up then perhaps I can finally pick one up at a decent price. I refuse to spend $600 knowing its software will probably be lacking. I use my 5x00 every day but its frustrating nature and its short, short battery life are making me lean back to a Palm.
ads
What do you mean elvis? The zaurus cl series is both clamshell and standard pda.....just rotate the screen! (admittedly if you wanna use keyboard....5x00/6000 has a small advantage).
tumnus
Can you take a Cxxx Zaurus out of your pocket, quickly turn it on and look at a Calendar appointment and then put it back in your pocket, all with only *one* hand? I'm sure with a bit of practice you could manage to open the lid with one hand and so on, but I doubt it would be quick and I wouldn't want to do it quickly for fear of dropping such an expensive gadget.

The clamshell design is great for the fact that it forms its own case and gives you a much bigger keyboard, but it is not as effecient as the standard portrait form for normal PDA usage.

Now if there was a way of keeping a Cxxx Zaurus in portrait mode without any danger of the screen being damaged then that would be very cool.
Omicron
QUOTE
Now if there was a way of keeping a Cxxx Zaurus in portrait mode without any danger of the screen being damaged then that would be very cool.


It's called a case smile.gif

....just make one to your liking. Cases are cheap enough to find or make one that is easy-open in portrait and usable in landscape...Best of BOTH worlds.

Personally, I love the 5500, but spent the extra $$ for a c860 on Three things: 1) Keyboard 2) Screen. 3) Clamshell.

6000 only has one, it is worth about $300 to me. wink.gif
n8a
Here's a nice case that I bought that allows you to achieve this (leave the cxxx in portrait mode):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=3089634362

It adds a little bulk to the pda (cxxx fits snug/perfect, though) and it has an extremely soft interior for screen protection. Add a screen protector and there you go...
TonyOlsen
QUOTE
A clamshell PDA is clumsy to handle on the go. I've tried one of the Sony Clie ones and I disliked it.  


That's why they made the SL-Cxxx able to transform between clamshell and PDA. I love having clamshell, but I understand what you mean about those times when you only have 1 hand available and no table... and having it in PDA position is better for that. The SL-Cxxx series is the best of both worlds (minus it not having Wifi yet)

QUOTE
Can you take a Cxxx Zaurus out of your pocket, quickly turn it on and look at a Calendar appointment and then put it back in your pocket, all with only *one* hand?


Yes... you just do as the 6000 series does... you leave it with the screen exposed. It's not very safe, but neither is the 6000 screen.

QUOTE
Now if there was a way of keeping a Cxxx Zaurus in portrait mode without any danger of the screen being damaged then that would be very cool.


Aren't all PDA form Zauri suseptable to the same screen damage? Isn't that why they made it so that Zaurus SL-Cxxx could close with the screen on the inside (if wanted)?
nevarrie
QUOTE
Personally, I love the 5500, but spent the extra $$ for a c860 on Three things: 1) Keyboard 2) Screen. 3) Clamshell.    

6000 only has one, it is worth about $300 to me. wink.gif


I guess starting with A Sharp Wizard and later getting a Sharp Zaurus 3500, both clam shells, having a keyboard was overrated most of the time. After my screen broke on The Zaurus I went to a Handspring Vizor and found I like the portrait better. Now the big things for me at 1) Screen 2) Builtin Wifi. If the clam had a builtin WiFi I would have to admit I think I would have that since it is smaller then 6000. Also I know I will uses a wireless keyboard with which every Z I own.

I do have to say I like the look and feel of the clam shell best, and miss my old Sharp PDA's. The only thing I do not miss about them is the keyboard. But then again I like choice, because no one else is like me. biggrin.gif
bluedevils
I would think *all* non clamshell pdas without a case are vulnerable. I also don't think they made the clamshell mainly for protection. They wanted a bigger keyboard and screen without losing its shirtpocketedness.

QUOTE
Aren't all PDA form Zauri suseptable to the same screen damage?  Isn't that why they made it so that Zaurus SL-Cxxx could close with the screen on the inside (if wanted)?
tumnus
QUOTE
Aren't all PDA form Zauri suseptable to the same screen damage?  Isn't that why they made it so that Zaurus SL-Cxxx could close with the screen on the inside (if wanted)?

No. The SL-5x00 and SL-6000 all have screen protectors that flip up to reveal the screen. The SL-5500 and SL5000D flip covers were frosted, but you could still see through a little. The SL-5600 and SL-6000 flip covers are completely transparent so you don't even need to flip it up to see the screen. I would never put a SL-Cxxx Zaurus in my pocket while still in portrait mode. These PDA touchscreens are quite delicate and easily susceptible to either scratches or cracks. But the flip covers protect the other Zaurus screens very well in my experience and I have owned my SL-5500 for over 2 years now and the screen is fine.

So I still think the portrait form is more efficient as a PDA. Of course this is quite subjective and we're only talking a few seconds difference in timings, but when you're talking to someone and you need to quickly tell them a phone number from your addressbook etc, every second you keep them waiting seems like ages.
TonyOlsen
Some good valid points.
rikiya
it doesn't take a second to open the clamshells and flip the screen right? and plus if you need to get their phone number address etc. it's be easier with the keyboard in stead of trying to hand write and make mistakes?
Zuber
Everyone has there own spin on this...

But the way I see it.

How many people can quickly and easily get out a palm mode device and check a contacts details on it without using two hands ?
I'd guess not many.

Assuming you actually have reasonable number of contacts, then you will want to use some input to narrow down the list. At which point you are looking at some key input or handwriting.

Unless you have a unit with a perminant fixed keyboard or really snazzy (bound to break real soon) slide mechanism then we are talking two hands again.

And at this point, you might as well open the Zaurus in Clamshell mode, leave it in clamshell and locate the contact.

For continued use with one hand, the extra 1.5 seconds for opening and rotating the unit does not really come into it. The only thing I would like is better navigation in this mode (A good equivalant to the directional pad).
TonyOlsen
QUOTE
How many people can quickly and easily get out a palm mode device and check a contacts details on it without using two hands ?
I'd guess not many.


Yeah, but most of us have 2 hands, so it works out fine. tongue.gif

What we need is a holographic watch that reads our minds... "Look ma'! No hands!"
Inuyasha
QUOTE
How many people can quickly and easily get out a palm mode device and check a contacts details on it without using two hands ?
I'd guess not many.

1. Pull 5x00/6000 out of pocket/case (one hand).
2. Press "Cancel" to turn on.
3. Press the Address Book button to start Address Book.
4. Use directional pad to scroll up/down in contact list. Left/right changes the alphabetical tab your're viewing.
5. Press middle Zaurus button to open details.
6. Read details and press Cancel twice, then hold it for two seconds to suspend Zaurus.
7. Replace Zaurus in pocket/case with one hand.

Easy...


And my personal take is that the clamshells are very nice, but for more practical, moving around alot, doing things quickly, the 5x00/6000's are better. The clams are good if you wish to basically use it as a laptop replacement, but the 5x00/6000's are better for slightly more traditional PDA uses (PIM, E-mail, web browsing, PDF viewing, etc.)
Zuber
My problem is if I try and do that regularly with such large units (had about a dozen different pdas over last few years), I end up with an additional step :

Drop unit... smile.gif

Actually, if you are moving around alot and can spare two hands, the Clamshells work great with the screen right back. Better than any other clamshell unit I reckon, since others tend to want or need a desk. The Cxxx models are actually designed to be used that way.

Only time I juggle a little , is if I need to use the mobile. I have a T610, so it quite easy to have the phone in the palm of your hand and operate the Zaurus with both hands at the same time.

Got a 5500 and a C750 ad I go for the C750 every time...

Each to their own I guess.
tumnus
Well I guess nearly everyone (myself included) is also defending their current purchases and/or what they cannot afford. I'm sure if I could afford a SL-Cxxx Zaurus I would use that all of the time simply because of the screen and the relative compactness compared to the SL-6000.

I still think for one handed PDA use, the portrait form is more efficient (and safer) than the clamshell form, but then this is more important to some and less important to others. As always, it's hard to please everyone.

One thing they could possibly do with the clamshell is have a flip cover like the portrait Zauruses, but with the hinge fitting into slots in the lid, so there is nothing protruding from the case. It could be easily flipped to the side in landscape mode and would act like the other Zaurus flip covers in portrait mode. Then I could leave the clamshell in portrait mode in my pocket without worrying and use it like a PDA, but still have landscape mode for viewing documents, surfing the web, and typing on the nice big keyboard. The only major drawback I see to this is it would add yet another 3mm or so in depth to some already thick Zauruses. For those who don't like the flip cover, instead of leaving a large gap between the lid and keyboard when closed, there could be a dummy cover that clips in the hinges, but does not open out and has a big window cut in the middle to get access to the screen. The rim of this dummy cover would still provide a nice flush fit sandwiched bewteen the lid and keyboard.

Oh, and the clamshells need a D-pad on the lid besides the screen... and WiFi builtin... and Bluetooth builtin... biggrin.gif
padishah_emperor
I haven't followed this for a while, but I'm having difficulty believing Zaurites are fighting over this (beyond the jokes in Flame Wars). Look, here's my take on it. We all love the Z, Sharp make them in a variety of shapes and sizes and we buy the one WE think is right for OUR use at the time. I could use my 5500 single handed but so what? My 860 requires two hands for some things, and? It's hardly worth worrying over. IF I had the need to do "PDA" stuff then the form factor of the 5x00 would be more suitable for me, I'd prefer a 5600 to a 6000 because of size, but I've never even entered a single phone number or appointment on my Z, my mobile phone does that stuff. I use my Z like a tiny little Linux laptop, so the form factor of the C7xx/860 is more suited to my usage requirements. My ONLY gripes are that I would be that I'd like a 3rd party screen cover for my 860 in 'PDA'/tablet mode, similar to my old 5500, or better still, a clamshell without the rotating screen, I've already almost twisted it the wrong way, I wish my 860 had a flipback screen like my old HP OmniGo 100. Internal flash memory the pivoting screen, to me, are it's weak points, but as Zuber mentioned, the thumb-board mode of the C7xx/860 is very useful though. Basically, buy the machine which suits your needs best, it doesn't require defending from anyone.

(And it may stun some people but not everyone wants bluetooth or wifi ;-), it's the thing which turns me off the 6000 to be honest, that and it's size)

Anyhoo, this thread was about the demise of the Clie, so, HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!!! :twisted:
omega
yes, that and it's size. ;-) she's a whole lotta woman that 6000...
TonyOlsen
QUOTE
I still think for one handed PDA use, the portrait form is more efficient (and safer) than the clamshell form...


I agree. I often use my SL-C860 with one hand in portrait mode. I think all "Portrait prefering" users would need on the SL-C860 is a transparent plastic flip lid. I'm sure someone must sell these somewhere...

While I like using the SL-C860 in portrait mode, most of my use is in Clamshell mode. I think this may have to do with how you use the device:

If you use it as a PDA, and you sync it with your desktop, then everythign gets typed into your desktop and you don't need to type stuff into your Zaurus that much... so clamshell isn't needed as much. But here you're Zaurus is nothing but another apendage to your desktop.

On the other hand, if you use your Zaurus as a "Palmtop" (A "Laptop" in the palm of your hand... ie. a full computer), then you enter most of your information into the Zaurus using the Zaurus... and so the keyboard is very much needed.

I suspect most Portrait Style Zauri users want a PDA, and most Clamshell Style users want a palmtop. It all depends what you're looking for. smile.gif
Zuber
QUOTE
Well I guess nearly everyone (myself included) is also defending their current purchases and/or what they cannot afford.


But I've got both so I can speak with complete nutrality wink.gif (even if I can't spell)

If all else fails, I'm going to revert to nature. We have two eyes side by side, not one on top of each other. Landscape rules (At least until a portrait model I can't resist comes along).

To be honest this has been debated at least 100 times on forums everywhere. General conclusion.

If you tend to spend most of your time just looking up contacts, appointments or read ebooks etc. you tend towards portrait single handed units.

If you actually use your device smile.gif then you tend towards landscape/clamshell.

In other words, most people that have PDAs don't really use them much. Just like to have them handy just in case.
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