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chayimkirshen
I have dreams of using my Z to replace my current desktop. Eventually I want to buy a C3k (March?). Let's assume for the time being that both OZ and pdaXrom are enabled on the C3k. Can someone answer the following?

Effectively, I want to come home, and plug my future Z into the usb hub, and then have a computer.

1) Is is possible to get mouse support working on any rom. If so which one? I want to plug a usb mouse in through the usb host (via a hub), and then have both keyboard and mouse facilities.

2) usb wireless/wired networking - Does anyone have wireless usb or even wired usb networking working with their Z? Again, which rom?

3) vga video - Does anyone have a way to project their Z onto a monitor at 1024x768 or better? Whether it's usb to vga or a cf card, I'm dying the know the answer to this one. Image plugging in your Z and having a desktop!

So the real question is which rom supports what. Or, how do I do any of the above. If anyone knows I will be very much in your debt.

--chayim
soundwave106
I have seen compact flash -> XGA cards for the Zaurus listed -- from IO Data. -- it's listed 6000.in their store for $175. This is for the C7xx and C860 -- not sure if there are any specific incompatibilities that would prevent it from being used with the 6000.
Vanguard
The problem there is going to be the video. Last time I looked, the IO Data cf->vga card only output at a few frames a second, so you won't be using it for regular use (it's more designed for slide presentations and such).

I think your best bet would be to just have a small, unobtrusive, cheap old PC under your desk whose only purpose is to run a VNC client. Then you just run the VNC server on your Z and everything works, without having to worry about driver compatibility and such (All you need is a working network card).

I know, it doesn't have quite the geek factor, but it's still pretty good.
SolarX
So far, none of the roms support anything on the C3000, but I'm guessing getting support for the USB chip would be trivial (and in the kernel) for most of the roms.If the chip is supported, you can most likely use all peripherals linux supports, including mice, keyboards and wlan cards..
The VNC solution sounds nice, but you'd probably be better off getting a cheap PII400 system, as it's faster than the Z will ever be and has decent video support.
Another idea is getting an OQO or the Sony U70. Might be a bit more expensive, but if you're planning to buy lots of peripherals with your C3000, you may well end up in the same price range.
chayimkirshen
The CF->XGA card has a frame/sec problem, so I definitely can't use it. As for the notion of looking at an OQO, it's well out of the price range. The one peripheral I'm thinking of adding is a CF vga card. I already have a CF wifi card, so there's no new expenditure there.
ev1l
If I were you I'd just use a low power desktop. You can always mount your Z.
ScottYelich
To me, the pda *is* a laptop replacement -- but that does come
with one qualification -- the laptop is not equivalent to what it
replaced (and it certainly doesn't surpass it).

The zaurus with pdaxrom allows me to take code with me.
I get my same xmms, web browsing, gc + devel -- but it
doesn't have the same speed, ram, etc. I also do not expect it
to.

If you have another pc at home - laptop or otherwise, you can
ssh into the Z and X display out -- vnc if you must (vnc +
xfce4 is a good combo) ... even just ssh in from another
(unix) host is sufficient.

For dev, however, I can't see the machine as a primary platform.
It is *capable* if it has to, but it shouldn't be the primary, imho.
It will just lead to frustration.

Scott
chayimkirshen
I disagree somewhat. Admittedly, I will continue to use my desktop for most things, but I really want to use my Z for near everything. I think it would be fantastic to come home, jack in and continue to work in the zone I'm most comfortable. But that's just me.
I keep everything I care about (both functionally and hardware wise) on my file server. My desktop at home is little more than a web browser and openoffice box, hence the fact that it's a P3-933 and not going to be upgraded until it dies.
The Zaurus could provide the exact same functionality (which is what I want). Of course, I need the usb mouse and vga out to make it happen. But, it can already do the openoffice (or abiword & gnumeric)/konqueror thing. I just need to get futher.
craigtyson
there was some development of devices that would do this in the days of hpc (hand held PC) one device from viewsonic sported vga serial paralel and CF connectivity also a full qwerty keyboard and a half vga screen. Citrix was an option but egerything else was M$ and has now been replaced with PPC so no more HPC devices. I looked into seeing if linux would run on one of these but by the time I figured out it was a definate mayne the supply had sold out. Shame as this would be the dogs bol***ks for lots of people who need a computer in their pocket not just a pretty PDA.

Turn the problem on its head why not use the usb storage app on the zaurus and make the zaurus a bootable usb distro.... then you can have a mobile pda and a workstation that boots off the Z and you can access your code from there. aka live distro in a partition on a cf card in the Z. data files an another partition on the cf. usb storage running on Z boot the PC off the "usb storage device" and your in.

Craig
tz
If you have some kind of Desktop that can run X (e.g. via Knoppix or cygwin if you run windows), you can run the Z's X applications to display (and use keybd and mouse) on the desktop, and use VNC to export the screen.
Antikx
Hey chayimkirshen, I have the same dream you do.

I'm new to ZUG and I currently use a Palm Tugsten C for alot of things but I'm limited by the 320x320 screen and an OS that won't let me hack around as much as Linux. I'm really thinking of moving to a Zaurus (either 6000L or C3000) and taking advantage of the USB host and using a USB mouse and kbd.
But you're right... how to export the video.
I've thought of a few ideas that haven't been mentioned yet.

Mini Desktop Box:
You could build a little box that would house a cradle and a digital camera with TV out capabilities. Once you put your pda in the box and closed the lid you could turn the camera on and turn on the TV that it's hooked up to and you would have your video.

VNC in Listen Mode:
I don't know the Zaurus well enough to know if this would work, but you could have a windows pc tucked away some where (like has allready been mentioned) that's running VNC in listen mode, and maybe you could setup your Zaurus (which would be running the VNC server) to run a script when you put it on the cradle to send the Zaurus screen to the windows PC. We do something similar to this with PC's at work.

Any video accessory is limited to the BUS speed limitations of the connector it attaches to. I don't know if the SDIO or CF slot can handle the amount of thoroughfair that streaming video (and sound?) produce but I would think that the USB1.1 port could since it is capable of 10mbps (correct me if I'm wrong). I know hauppauge PCI cards have been suported quite well under linux so I wonder if someone could write a driver for the Zaurus for something like this:
http://www.smalldog.com/product/37703

Please don't flame me if I sound like an idiot, I'm just trying to help and get help. I would like to make a Zaurus my work PC, home PC and my pda. Any idea's and suggestion would be appreciated.

-Antikx
Palm Tungten C
256MB SD
mussi
The OQO is a good, but pricey option.

Maybe a Psion NetBook-like device would be much better, if it ran on somewhat more powerful hardware and had USB as well as WiFi.
amrein
Too big device.
rmako
Usb mouse & keyboard are doable now. See the 6000 hardware section.

Not sure about VGA - would like to see it for a head mounted display.

Bob Makowsky
davidmcnaught16
I know this doesent help anyone immediately, but a PDA that can be linked to a keyboard, mouse and screen with 1024x768 resolution is, as far as I can see possible now, but nobody makes it. Hopefully one will become availible soon.

The AMD Alchemy au1200 processor supports linux, USB2 host and screens up to 1024x768, is capable of playing DVD quality video playback and uses <400mW @ 400MHz, sounds great for PDA's. It also has DDR & DDR2 memory controller, which could speed some things up!

I dont know how fast the processor would be compared to the new Xscales (624Mhz + WMMX etc) though.

A new version of Zaurus with AU1200, and a few other features (Mic, Camera, Wifi, Bluetooth, GFX accelerator?) would be great! It needn't cost much more than Dell axim x50v (Less than Zaurus C3000). If there's enough demand for such a device, I guess someone will make it, but I doubt enough people want or need it.

I think Sharp needs some competition in the Linux PDA arena!
g33k
What if you leave VGA output out of the question...

With a C-860, is there a ROM you can load that will allow you to use a USB keyboard, mouse, and networking?
nilch
not with a C-860 (or any C series Zaurus) since they dont have a USB host.
So its not a question of the ROM itself, rather, its a question of the hardware supporting that feature.

The Zaurus 6000L can for example support a USB Keyboard and a mouse (either/or) since they have a USB host port on them.
See threads

USB Keyboard Thread and USB Mouse Thread.


g33k
I'm sorry, I should have stipulated "with a Ratoc CFU-1 USB Host card."

I have a C-860, CFU-1, mouse, keyboard, etc, but I've not yet gotten them to work.
nilch
I am sorry, I should have second-guessed it too.
sorry, no idea about the Ratoc and USB Keyboard/mouse issue.



Edit : Well here is your answer
USB Support - for C750 and C3000
nevarrie
My SL-6000L has replaced my home desktop. I still have 3 servers running but know one of them has a monitor and it does not run X.

With a usb hub on the 6k I have hooked up usb hard drives, usb cd-rw(HP-8220 added kernel module to make this work), usb network adapter (Hawking HUF11), usb keyboards, and usb mice. I have not used the cd-rw for a while since I usually just place cd's in one of my servers and access the cd that way.

It took a while to get to uses to using a 640x480 screen again, but I now do more on my Zaurus then I do with any other computer I uses. Most of the time I use my Targus IR keyboard instead of my logitech Wireless keyboard, but the logitech does get used at home when I want to have the natural feel. I looked into the vga out from the Z and finally decided that was not really an option at this time. The cf interface is to slow on any of the current Z to be worth while and I have not found a way to get svideo out over usb so that I could plug my Z into my TV.

One thing I have to admit is the my Z replace a k6-400 desktop so to me the Z was an upgrade. Also the main things I uses my computers for are ssh, web browsing, IM, and redsktop. The Z does all of this for me.

The Z can be a desktop replacement but most of it depends on what you want and what you are uses to.
Mr Root
Maybe off-topic, or a repost, but this little beauty appears to be the closest to a full desktop replacement. Full screen output, wi-fi, QTopia etc.

Archos PMA-400

What's everyone think? biggrin.gif
Antikx
ya the pma-400 is nice but like someone mentioned the lcd resolution is kind of a show stopper.
chayimkirshen
Nevarrie:

I think you're bang on. Most of the time I surf, read email, etc. But I still want to display the Z's screen data directly onto the screen. I'm heartened to know that the cdwrite worked, that was one of my goals.

Admittedly, I've since changed my tune. Now I just want a Z and the new Mac Mini. That would make me very, very happy.
soundwave106
Although I'm going to keep my super-souped up PC for many things, I'm seriously looking at getting the Nanode when that comes out, so I can build a MythTV-based DVR. smile.gif

But the Z is my travel PC. It's nice to have a very-functional device that, well, *almost* fits in your pocket. smile.gif
nevarrie
QUOTE(soundwave106 @ Jan 12 2005, 10:40 AM)
Although I'm going to keep my super-souped up PC for many things, I'm seriously looking at getting the Nanode when that comes out, so I can build a MythTV-based DVR. smile.gif

But the Z is my travel PC. It's nice to have a very-functional device that, well, *almost* fits in your pocket. smile.gif

One of my hopes is to be able to uses my Zaurus as a mythtv frontend then I can watch my records on my Z...
ev1l
Any of you guys looking at the minimac for a desktop? I know I'm very tempted.
chayimkirshen
ev1l: Not only am I looking at one, I've got my configuration pretty much figured out. For me it's a no-contest computer =)
davidmcnaught16
Mini mac is a load of rubbish! (For me!)

Great if you just do email, internet and typing, but not for anything much else - I've had a PC faster than that thing for years, and they've always been too slow!

Won't be any good for gaming, graphics stuff (photo editing etc) or anything else that requires decent power.

For what most people need, it probably does the job fine, and is extreemly cool, simple and elegant at the same time. It'll sell like anything!
ev1l
QUOTE(davidmcnaught16 @ Jan 13 2005, 07:26 AM)
For what most people need, it probably does the job fine, and is extreemly cool, simple and elegant at the same time. It'll sell like anything!

Hahahaha, yeah. A guy I know goes to Japan on a regular basis, and he says the Japanese are going to be all over the damn thing.
I disagree about the photo-editing comment you made, it's certainly more than powerful enough for image manipulation. The only thing it's lacking is a decent 3D accelerator, IMHO. But hey, $500.
davidmcnaught16
Yeah, you are right about photo editing - I remember I used to use paint shop pro on my old Athlon 500 and it just about did the job!

It would be great for a second PC, personally, I'd rather spend $500 on getting a decent graphics card. It's certainly not a bad machine for the price, and most people don't do gaming, so it'll certainly be a hit. Would be good if Apple offered a low cost display / keyboard / mouse bundle with it, so it all matches, as people will be buying it for coolness, not just functionality!
soundwave106
I would've said the same thing about the iPod (too too expensive), but Apple's got style. People tend to be more stylish than us geeks. smile.gif

The tiny PCs aren't fast, but that's fine. The Nanode I was looking at for a (way in the future) PVR probably is also going to run at 1Ghz. Here's the kicker, though, the Nano-ITX and Mini-ITX boards have built in hardware for the tough stuff - like MPEG decoding. And 1Ghz = fanless design. This makes it perfect for PVRs, car radios, and other media applications. I'm sure Apple has a similar design where hard stuff like MPEG is hardware.

Apple's the first one bringing the Mini-ITX / Nano-ITX concept with style and flair. Plus, their built in apps are cool. Aside from web browsing and junk like that, that iLife suite means you get a built in music player, 8-track studio recorder (if Apple has a good USB multi-soundcard, this is a killer for us beginning musicians smile.gif ), play DVDs, edit HD video, etc. Granted the apps look basic compared to pro stuff but many people don't need more than basic.

No built-in PVR, though. That would've made me consider the Apple too. smile.gif
davidmcnaught16
Very true! Style is a very important factor, probably more than performance, as long as the performance is acceptable.

I was looking into making cases for NanoATX mobo's, purely because they could be so cool, and a premium could be charged for that even if it's not blisteringly fast.

They would be up to 1.4 Ghz (EPIA Ghz are not the same as K7 / P3 Ghz, so it would not be as fast for many things, but as you say, some built in features would make it faster for other things).

Sadly the Epia-N has taken ages to come out, and now the Mini Apple has reduced (But not eliminated) the likelyhood and extent of it's success!
JohnKiniston
There are a couple very nice PVR products for OS X, Formac makes one as does ElGato.

We have a Formac DVR at work that we use every day to capture TV to DV streams we can edit in iMovie.
bluedevils
forget all that (boy are we off topic)! Imagine the ease of installing a mini mac in a car glove box or inside a side table drawer in the living room! It's not meant to be a power machine, but a competent machine.
kahm
I want a mac mini just because I want a low cost option for an OSX box. Buying a used g3 or g4 at less than half that speed for the same price just doesn't wash with me.

A 1.2ghz G4 is NOT a slow computer. And with the Radeon in there it should support the Crystal (or whatever their special graphical extensions are called) which was the main reason that the UI was slow on earlier models. You'd definitely have to upgrade the ram, though. Macs eat ram for lunch, but can get away with lower clock speeds.

The Mini is definitely not a gaming platform, though.
soundwave106
Heh... I was hoping not to pay for something. smile.gif

But Elgato this week updated EyeTV to support Clear QAM, ie, unencrypted digital cable. That might steer me away from MythTV. tongue.gif

Yeah, this is off topic, but interesting to me. Especially if Apple with EyeTV can provide a HDTV recording solution before the FCC starts enforcing that broadcast flag on gear.
Antikx
This discussion got a bit off track but I'm quoting part of my previous post below.

I still intend on getting a Zaurus this Spring/Summer and would really, really like VGA-out working. I would like to be able to play games and watch movies on a monitor or TV, but I don't know if USB 1.1 is capable of that kind of refresh rate. (can someone with experience update me). I would be happy though with a slower refresh rate that would be accecptable for text editing and surfing.

I have a friend who is a real expert with Linux on PC's and is a very intelligent guy. I think that if he was properly motivated he would be able to write a driver/kernel module or what ever it took to get VGA-out working through a USB device like I've linked to (see below).

I havent' talked to him yet, and he may just do it for free, but if I were to get him to set up a paypal account (if he doesnt' allready have one) would anyone else be interested in donating toward the work that would give us usefull VGA-out? I'm not trying to start a scam. Honestly. I'm just really interested in making my Zaurus my main computer and VGA-out is important to me.

Does anyone have an suggestions for USB video devices that have allready been successfully used under PC Linux? I was thinking that maybe we could take advantage of work someone else has allready done and not reinvent the wheel.

-Antikx

QUOTE(Antikx @ Jan 9 2005, 03:01 PM)
Hey chayimkirshen, I have the same dream you do.

I'm new to ZUG and I currently use a Palm Tugsten C for alot of things but I'm limited by the 320x320 screen and an OS that won't let me hack around as much as Linux. I'm really thinking of moving to a Zaurus (either 6000L or C3000) and taking advantage of the USB host and using a USB mouse and kbd.
But you're right... how to export the video.
I've thought of a few ideas that haven't been mentioned yet.

Any video accessory is limited to the BUS speed limitations of the connector it attaches to. I don't know if the SDIO or CF slot can handle the amount of thoroughfair that streaming video (and sound?) produce but I would think that the USB1.1 port could since it is capable of 10mbps (correct me if I'm wrong). I know hauppauge PCI cards have been suported quite well under linux so I wonder if someone could write a driver for the Zaurus for something like this:
http://www.smalldog.com/product/37703

*
kahm
QUOTE(Antikx @ Apr 7 2005, 06:44 PM)
I have a friend who is a real expert with Linux on PC's and is a very intelligent guy. I think that if he was properly motivated he would be able to write a driver/kernel module or what ever it took to get VGA-out working through a USB device like I've linked to (see below).
http://www.smalldog.com/product/37703


Interesting device. It *looks* like a usb1.1 device. I dug up the specs at the hauppague homepage. The only other usb video output devices I've seen are USB2.

Keep in mind that it is an S-Video output, though. It's NTSC or Pal output, which isn't even 640x480. And willingness to write a driver is well and good, but getting documentation to start writing is the hard part.
adf
output to a bigger screen would be really a very good thing. really. even vga out (though a little more would be better) would rock
ev1l
I don't know how you ever could push enough bandwidth over USB 1.1 to get a decent VGA refresh rate.
Antikx
QUOTE(kahm @ Apr 7 2005, 08:10 PM)
QUOTE(Antikx @ Apr 7 2005, 06:44 PM)
I have a friend who is a real expert with Linux on PC's and is a very intelligent guy. I think that if he was properly motivated he would be able to write a driver/kernel module or what ever it took to get VGA-out working through a USB device like I've linked to (see below).
http://www.smalldog.com/product/37703


Interesting device. It *looks* like a usb1.1 device. I dug up the specs at the hauppague homepage. The only other usb video output devices I've seen are USB2.

Keep in mind that it is an S-Video output, though. It's NTSC or Pal output, which isn't even 640x480. And willingness to write a driver is well and good, but getting documentation to start writing is the hard part.
*




It says it can capture at 320x240, but maybe it can output at 640x480. Not sure.

I know SVideo can do atleast 640x480 as I'm doing 800x600 from my MythTV box to my TV.
Antikx
QUOTE(ev1l @ Apr 7 2005, 09:18 PM)
I don't know how you ever could push enough bandwidth over USB 1.1 to get a decent VGA refresh rate.
*


Ya. I wonder too.
Here's info about USB 1.1 (or 1.0?):
http://www.usb.org/faq/ans2#q1
It says:
Original USB: 12Mbits/s (1.5MBYTES/s)

I wonder if the bottleneck would actually be the USB architecture. It might be some part of the Zaurus between the software and the actuall USB BUS that might slow everything down to a crawl.

Has anyone done any speed tests with copying files to an external USB HDD or fast flash drive?
kahm
[quote=Antikx,Apr 7 2005, 09:44 PM]


Interesting device. It *looks* like a usb1.1 device. I dug up the specs at the hauppague homepage. The only other usb video output devices I've seen are USB2.

Keep in mind that it is an S-Video output, though. It's NTSC or Pal output, which isn't even 640x480. And willingness to write a driver is well and good, but getting documentation to start writing is the hard part.
*

[/quote]


It says it can capture at 320x240, but maybe it can output at 640x480. Not sure.

I know SVideo can do atleast 640x480 as I'm doing 800x600 from my MythTV box to my TV.
*

[/quote]

The unit is quoted at 525 lines for NTSC. You aren't actually getting 640x480, and you're certainly not getting 800x600 - it's is being interpolated down. NTSC encoding is *really* wacky. You've usually got an effect 400x300 at most.
Antikx
QUOTE(kahm @ Apr 7 2005, 09:49 PM)
The unit is quoted at 525 lines for NTSC. You aren't actually getting 640x480, and you're certainly not getting 800x600 - it's is being interpolated down. NTSC encoding is *really* wacky. You've usually got an effect 400x300 at most.
*


ahh. that's right. and that explains why 800x600 looks so fuzzy on a normal tv.

Thanks for clarifying that kahm.

I may have to think more about the video camera idea.
adf
ugh. the data rate i pretty low. I forgot I wasn't talking compressed video.... if compressed it would have to be done BEFORE hitting the usb..... no way the z has that kind of power. "greenscreen" it? that would be nostalgic for a few of us smile.gif
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